List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

[Jan Olbracht]

Another family of HRE Max:

Maximilian I (1459-1519) Holy Roman Emperor, m. a) Mary of Burgundy (1457-1482) b) Anne of Brittany (annuled) c) Bianca Maria Sforza (1472-1511)

1a) Philip IV (1478-1508) Duke of Burgundy, m. Joanna of Castile (1479-1555)

1) Charles (1499-1505)​

2a) Margaret (1480-1530) Duchess of Burgundy 1508, m. a) John (1478-1497) Prince of Asturias b) Philibert II (1480-1520) Duke of Savoy

1a) Joanna (1498-1552) Queen of Castile, m. John III (1502-1557) King of Portugal​

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2b) Philip III/V (1504-1567) Duke of Savoy 1520, Duke of Burgundy 1530, m. a) Beatrice of Portugal (1504-1538) b) Anne of Lorraine (1522-1568)​

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3b) Mary (1506-1509)​

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4b) Margaret (1507-1561) m. Henry IX* (1508-1567) King of England​

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5b) Philiberta (1509-1564) m. Francis II Sforza (1495-1535) Duke of Milan​

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6b) Philippa (1511)​

3a) Francis (1481)

4c) Ernest (1497-1544) Holy Roman Emperor 1519, m. Anna of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1566)

1) Anna (1522-1575) m. Louis III (1524-1566) King of Bohemia and Hungary (see below)​

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2) Eleanor (1523-1561) m. Sigismund II (1519-1559) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland (see below)​

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3) Kunigunde (1525-1579) m. Frederick (1504-1562) Duke of Saxony**​

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4) Margaret (1526-1598) m. Albert V (1528-1579) Duke of Bavaria​

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5) Maximilian II (1528-1580) Holy Roman Emperor 1544, m. Beatrice of Savoy*** (1530-1584)​

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6) Ernest (1530)​

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7) Elizabeth (1531-1587) m. William (1516-1592) Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg​

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8) Rudolf (1534-1552) Archduke of Tyrol​

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9) Mary (1536-1579) m. Philip (1534-1565) Count of Charolais****​

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10) Barbara (1537-1578) m. Charles Victor (1525-1586) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel​

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11) Albert (1540)​

5c) Eleanor (1500-1556) m. Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland

1) Sigismund II (1519-1559) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Eleanor of Austria (1523-1561)​

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2) Vladislaus (1521-1524)​

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3) Albert II (1523-1588) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1559, m. Barbara of Saxony (1546-1609)*****​

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4) Sophia (1525)​

6c) Rudolf (1501)

7c) Kunigunde (1503-1549) m. Louis II (1506-1526) King of Bohemia and Hungary

1) Louis III (1524-1566) King of Bohemia and Hungary 1526, m. Anna of Austria (1522-1575)​

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2) Stephen VI (1526-1600) King of Bohemia and Hungary 1566, m. Margaret of Austria****** (1552-1608)​

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* Son of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon, who ITTL married earlier (as Philip the Handsome has no daughter ITTL and is not going to get Castilian throne).

** Daughter of Philip of Burgundy and Savoy and Beatrice of Portugal.

*** Son od George the Bearded

**** Son of Philip of Burgundy and Savoy and Beatrice of Portugal.

***** Daughter of Kunigunde of Austria and Frederick of Saxony

****** Daughter of HRE Maximilian II and Beatrice of Savoy

 

[Kynan]

Scenario: Different things happen in France.

Louis XI, King of France (b.1423: d.1483) m. Margaret Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1424: d.1445) (a), Charlotte of Savoy (b.1441: d.1483) (b)

1b) Louis XII, King of France (b.1458: d.1512) m. Elizabeth of York, Princess of England (b.1466: d.1508) (a)​

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1a) Louis, Dauphin of France (b.1482: d.1495) m. Anne, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477: d.1514) (a)​

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- has no issue​

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2a) Francis, Prince of France (b.1484: d.1484)​

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3a) Edward, Prince of France (b1487: d.1487)​

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4a) Marguerite, Princess of France (b.1488: d.1524) m. Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b.1486: d.1553) (a)​

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- had no issue​

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5a) Charles VIII, King of France (b.1490: d.1549) m. Elizabeth Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1498: d.1527) (a), Margaret of Montferrat (b.1510: d.1566) (b)​

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1a) Catherine, Princess of France (b.1516)​

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2a) Stillborn Son (c.1518)​

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3a) Charles, Dauphin of France (b.1522)​

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4a) Marie, Princess of France (b.1525)​

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5b) Louis, Duke of Milan and Marquis of Montferrat (b.1531)​

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6b) Anne, Princess of France (b.1535)​

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7b) Stillborn Son (c.1536)​

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8b) Francoise, Princess of France (b.1540)​

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6a) Anne, Princess of France (b.1492: d.1494)​

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7a) Marie, Princess of France (b.1495: d.1496)​

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8a) Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1497: d.1557) m. Francis, Count of Angouleme (b.1494: d.1547) (a)​

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1a) John, Count of Angouleme (b.1522)​

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2a) Louise of Angouleme (b.1527: d.1530)​

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9a) Nicholas, Duke of Guyenne (b.1498: d.1519) m. Marie de Brosse (c.1500: d.1545) (a)​

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- had no issue​

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10a) Louis, Prince of France (b.1501: d.1502)​

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2b) Joachim, Prince of France (b.1459: d.1459)​

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3b) Louis, Princess of France (b.1460: d.1460)​

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4b) Anne, Princess of France (b.1461: d.1522) Peter II, Duke of Bourbon (b.1438: d.1503) (a)​

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1a) Charles, Count of Cleremont (b.1476: d.1498)​

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2a) Suzanne of Bourbon (b.1491: d.1525) m. Charles III, Duke of Bourbon (b.1490: d.1527) (a)​

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1a) Louis, Count of Cleremont (b.1517: d.1517)​

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2a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1521)​

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3a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1521)​

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5b) Jean, Princess of France (b.1464: d.1485) m. Louis, Duke of Orleans (b.1462: d.1515) (a)​

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- had no issue, rumoured miscarriage​

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6b) Francis, Prince of France (b.1466: d.1466)​

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7b) Charles, Duke of Anjou (b.1470: d.1497) m. Blanche of Montferrat (b.1472: d.1519) (a)​

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1a) Anne of Valois-Anjou (b.1492: d.1540)​

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- married to God​

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2a) Marie of Valois-Anjou (b.1493: d.1525) m. Antoine, Duke of Lorraine (b.1489: d.1544) (a)​

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1a) Stillborn Son (c.1511)​

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2a) Rene of Lorraine (b.1513: d.1513)​

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3a) Antoine II, Duke of Lorraine (b.1516)​

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4a) Claude of Lorraine (b.1517: d.1518)​

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5a) Marguerite of Lorraine (b.1520: d.1520)​

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6a) Blanche of Lorraine (b.1524)​

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3a) Francois, Count of Maine (b.1495: d.1497)​

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4a) John, Duke of Anjou (b.1497: d.1501)​

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8b) Francis, Prince of France (b.1472: d.1473)​

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Louis II, Duke of Orleans (b.1462: d.1515) m. Jean, Princess of France (b.1464: d.1485) (a), Anne, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477: d.1513) (b)

1b) Charles of Orleans, Count of Montfort (b.1497: d.1507)​

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2b) Stillborn Son (c.1498)​

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3b) Marguerite of Orleans (b.1500: d.1600) m. John Zapolya (b.1490: d.1540) (a)​

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1a) Hedwig Zapolya (b.1520)​

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2a) John II Louis Zapolya (b.1525)​

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4b) Miscarriage (c.1501)​

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5b) Claude of Orleans (b.1503: d.1503)​

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6b) Louis I, Duke of Brittany and Orleans (b.1507: d.1548) m. Eleonora d'Este (b.1515: d.1575) (a)​

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- had no issue​

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7b) Stillborn Son (c.1509)​

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8b) Catherine of Orleans (b.1510: d.1513)​

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9b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1511)​

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10b) Francois, Count of Vertus (b.1513: d.1540) m. Marie of Bourbon (b.1515: d.1538) (a), Charlotte of Orleans (b.1512: d.1549) (b)​

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1b) Francis III, Duke of Brittany and Orleans (b.1540)​

Richard III, King of England (b.1473: d.1506) m. Maria, Infanta of Aragon and Castile (b.1482: d.1540) (a)

1a) Edward VI, King of England (b.1500: d.1559) m. Anabella Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1495: d.1553) (a)​

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1a) Eleanor of York, Princess of England (b.1521: d.1524)​

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2a) Edward of York, Prince of Wales (b.1522: d.1540)​

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3a) Henry VII & I, King of England and Scotland (b.1525)​

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4a) Elizabeth of York, Princess of England (b.1528: d.1528)​

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5a) Mary of York, Princess of Scotland (b.1530)​

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6a) Humphrey of York, Duke of Somerset and Albany (b.1533)​

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7a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1535)​

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2a) Elizabeth of York, Princess of England (b.1502: d.1570) m. James V, King of Scotland (b.1500: d.1533), Mungo Stewart (c.1495: d.1545) (b)​

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- had no issue by either husband​

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3a) Lionel, Duke of York (b.1503: d.1550) m. Anne Howard (c.1505: d.1563) (a)​

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1a) Elizabeth of York (b.1524)​

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2a) Bridget of York (b.1527)​

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3a) Stillborn Son (c.1529)​

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4a) Frances of York (b.1533)​

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5a) Catherine of York (b.1535)​

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4a) Mary of York, Princess of England (b.1504: d.1505)​

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5a) John, Duke of Bedford (b.1505: d.1537) m. Margaret Tudor (b.1503: d.1575) (a)​

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1a) Charles, Duke of Bedford (b.1526: d.1543)​

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2a) John, Duke of Bedford (b.1528: d.1544)​

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3a) James, Duke of Bedford (b.1529: d.1544)​

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4a) Margaret of Bedford (b.1530: d.1534)​

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5a) Henry, Duke of Bedford (b.1534)​

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6a) Mary of Bedford (b.1536: d.1548)​

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6a) Ferdinand, Prince of England (b.1506: d.1506)​

 

[isabella]

Scenario: Different things happen in France.

Louis XI, King of France (b.1423: d.1483) m. Margaret Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1424: d.1445) (a), Charlotte of Savoy (b.1441: d.1483) (b)

1b) Louis XII, King of France (b.1458: d.1512) m. Elizabeth of York, Princess of England (b.1466: d.1508) (a)​

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1a) Louis, Dauphin of France (b.1482: d.1495) m. Anne, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477: d.1514) (a)​

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- has no issue​

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2a) Francis, Prince of France (b.1484: d.1484)​

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3a) Edward, Prince of France (b1487: d.1487)​

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4a) Marguerite, Princess of France (b.1488: d.1524) m. Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b.1486: d.1553) (a)​

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- had no issue​

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5a) Charles VIII, King of France (b.1490: d.1549) m. Elizabeth Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1498: d.1527) (a), Margaret of Montferrat (b.1510: d.1566) (b)​

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1a) Catherine, Princess of France (b.1516)​

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2a) Stillborn Son (c.1518)​

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3a) Charles, Dauphin of France (b.1522)​

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4a) Marie, Princess of France (b.1525)​

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5b) Louis, Duke of Milan and Marquis of Montferrat (b.1531)​

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6b) Anne, Princess of France (b.1535)​

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7b) Stillborn Son (c.1536)​

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8b) Francoise, Princess of France (b.1540)​

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6a) Anne, Princess of France (b.1492: d.1494)​

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7a) Marie, Princess of France (b.1495: d.1496)​

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8a) Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1497: d.1557) m. Francis, Count of Angouleme (b.1494: d.1547) (a)​

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1a) John, Count of Angouleme (b.1522)​

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2a) Louise of Angouleme (b.1527: d.1530)​

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9a) Nicholas, Duke of Guyenne (b.1498: d.1519) m. Marie de Brosse (c.1500: d.1545) (a)​

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- had no issue​

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10a) Louis, Prince of France (b.1501: d.1502)​

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2b) Joachim, Prince of France (b.1459: d.1459)​

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3b) Louis, Princess of France (b.1460: d.1460)​

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4b) Anne, Princess of France (b.1461: d.1522) Peter II, Duke of Bourbon (b.1438: d.1503) (a)​

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1a) Charles, Count of Cleremont (b.1476: d.1498)​

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2a) Suzanne of Bourbon (b.1491: d.1525) m. Charles III, Duke of Bourbon (b.1490: d.1527) (a)​

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1a) Louis, Count of Cleremont (b.1517: d.1517)​

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2a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1521)​

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3a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1521)​

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5b) Jean, Princess of France (b.1464: d.1485) m. Louis, Duke of Orleans (b.1462: d.1515) (a)​

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- had no issue, rumoured miscarriage​

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6b) Francis, Prince of France (b.1466: d.1466)​

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7b) Charles, Duke of Anjou (b.1470: d.1497) m. Blanche of Montferrat (b.1472: d.1519) (a)​

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1a) Anne of Valois-Anjou (b.1492: d.1540)​

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- married to God​

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2a) Marie of Valois-Anjou (b.1493: d.1525) m. Antoine, Duke of Lorraine (b.1489: d.1544) (a)​

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1a) Stillborn Son (c.1511)​

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2a) Rene of Lorraine (b.1513: d.1513)​

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3a) Antoine II, Duke of Lorraine (b.1516)​

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4a) Claude of Lorraine (b.1517: d.1518)​

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5a) Marguerite of Lorraine (b.1520: d.1520)​

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6a) Blanche of Lorraine (b.1524)​

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3a) Francois, Count of Maine (b.1495: d.1497)​

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4a) John, Duke of Anjou (b.1497: d.1501)​

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8b) Francis, Prince of France (b.1472: d.1473)​

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Louis II, Duke of Orleans (b.1462: d.1515) m. Jean, Princess of France (b.1464: d.1485) (a), Anne, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477: d.1513) (b)

1b) Charles of Orleans, Count of Montfort (b.1497: d.1507)​

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2b) Stillborn Son (c.1498)​

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3b) Marguerite of Orleans (b.1500: d.1600) m. John Zapolya (b.1490: d.1540) (a)​

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1a) Hedwig Zapolya (b.1520)​

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2a) John II Louis Zapolya (b.1525)​

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4b) Miscarriage (c.1501)​

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5b) Claude of Orleans (b.1503: d.1503)​

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6b) Louis I, Duke of Brittany and Orleans (b.1507: d.1548) m. Eleonora d'Este (b.1515: d.1575) (a)​

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- had no issue​

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7b) Stillborn Son (c.1509)​

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8b) Catherine of Orleans (b.1510: d.1513)​

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9b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1511)​

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10b) Francois, Count of Vertus (b.1513: d.1540) m. Marie of Bourbon (b.1515: d.1538) (a), Charlotte of Orleans (b.1512: d.1549) (b)​

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1b) Francis III, Duke of Brittany and Orleans (b.1540)​

Richard III, King of England (b.1473: d.1506) m. Maria, Infanta of Aragon and Castile (b.1482: d.1540) (a)

1a) Edward VI, King of England (b.1500: d.1559) m. Anabella Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1495: d.1553) (a)​

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1a) Eleanor of York, Princess of England (b.1521: d.1524)​

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2a) Edward of York, Prince of Wales (b.1522: d.1540)​

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3a) Henry VII & I, King of England and Scotland (b.1525)​

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4a) Elizabeth of York, Princess of England (b.1528: d.1528)​

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5a) Mary of York, Princess of Scotland (b.1530)​

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6a) Humphrey of York, Duke of Somerset and Albany (b.1533)​

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7a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1535)​

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2a) Elizabeth of York, Princess of England (b.1502: d.1570) m. James V, King of Scotland (b.1500: d.1533), Mungo Stewart (c.1495: d.1545) (b)​

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- had no issue by either husband​

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3a) Lionel, Duke of York (b.1503: d.1550) m. Anne Howard (c.1505: d.1563) (a)​

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1a) Elizabeth of York (b.1524)​

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2a) Bridget of York (b.1527)​

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3a) Stillborn Son (c.1529)​

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4a) Frances of York (b.1533)​

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5a) Catherine of York (b.1535)​

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4a) Mary of York, Princess of England (b.1504: d.1505)​

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5a) John, Duke of Bedford (b.1505: d.1537) m. Margaret Tudor (b.1503: d.1575) (a)​

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1a) Charles, Duke of Bedford (b.1526: d.1543)​

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2a) John, Duke of Bedford (b.1528: d.1544)​

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3a) James, Duke of Bedford (b.1529: d.1544)​

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4a) Margaret of Bedford (b.1530: d.1534)​

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5a) Henry, Duke of Bedford (b.1534)​

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6a) Mary of Bedford (b.1536: d.1548)​

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6a) Ferdinand, Prince of England (b.1506: d.1506)​

Elizabeth of York do not work for the Dauphin here as he is only a year younger than Mary of Burgundy and will most likely marry her and Richard III would marry Anne of Brittany or Joanna of Aragon not Maria (who is way too young for him)

 

[VVD0D95]

Happy New Year to all. And a particular present to @Jan Olbracht and their liking of kings with the name John:

Jean III Baptiste Gaston, King of France & Navarre [1630 [1]-1660] (1608-1660) 1m: 1626 Marie, Duchesse de Montpensier (1605-1627); 2m: 1632 Marguerite of Lorraine [2] (1615-1672)

[1m.] Anne Marie Louise, Duchesse de Montpensier [3] (1627-1696) m: 1648 Carlos II [4], King of Spain [1665-1709] (1629-1709)​

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Felipe Miguel, Infante of Spain (1653-1662)​

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Luis I Miguel, King of Spain [from 1709] (b.1655) m: 1675 Maria Elisabeth of Austria (b.1661)​

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Maria Isabel (1658-1709)​

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Maria Ana Teresa (1661-1667)​

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Carlos Francisco, Infante of Spain (b.1665)​

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Maria Francisca (b.1667)​

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[2m.] Jean IV Baptiste Louis, King of France & Navarre [1660-1692] (1634-1692) 1m: 1655 Catherine of Portugal (1638-1667) [5]; 2m: 1670 Louise Marie of the Palatinate (b.1647)​

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[1m.] Jean V Louis, King of France & Navarre [1692-1725] (1657-1725) 1m: 1675 Maria Anna of Austria (b.1668-1676)[7]; 2m: 1680 Maria Francisca of Spain (b.1667)​

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[1m.] Louis, Duc de Bourgogne (1676-1676)​

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[2m.] Jean VI Charles François, King of France & Navarre [from 1725] (b.1683)​

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[2m.] Anne Françoise (b.1686)​

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[1m.] Catherine Marie (1658-1689) m:​

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[1m.] Louis Charles, Duc d'Anjou (1660-1724)​

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[1m.] Marie Louise (1661-1664)​

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[1m.] Philippe Théodose, Duc d'Alençon (1663-1664)​

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[1m.] Louis Gaston (1667)​

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[2m.] Henri Gaston, Duc d'Alençon (1672-1677)​

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[2m.] Anne Marie Françoise (b.1675)​

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[2m.] Charles Edouard, Duc d'Alençon; Prince d'Arches [from 1708] (b.1680)​

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[2m.] Louise Bénédicté Renée (b.1681)​

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[2m.] Marguerite Louise (b.1636) m: 1650 Teodosio I, King of Portugal & the Algarves [1656-1690] (1634-1690)​

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Joao V, King of Portugal & the Algarves [from 1690] (b.1653)​

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Margarida Luiza (b.1657)​

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Ana Maria (b.1661)​

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Luiz, Duque de Beja (b.1664)​

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[2m.] Françoise Madeleine (1637-1667) m: 1656 Carlo Emanuele II, Duke of Savoy (1634-1675)​

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Maria Cristina Margherita (b.1659)​

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Vittorio Amadeo II, Duke of Savoy [1675-1693] (1661-1693) m: Medici [8]​

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Luisa Adelaide (1665-1692) m:​

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Maurizio Emanuele (1666-1697)​

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[2m.] Marie Christine (1640-1640)​

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[2m.] Louis, Duc d'Orléans (1643-1705) m: 1665 Maria Anna of Bavaria (1640-1701)[9]​

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Anne Marguerite (b.1664) m: 1680 Cesare II, Duke of Modena (b.1660)​

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Louis Maximilien, Duc d'Orléans (b.1668) m:​

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Marie Thérèse (b.1671)​

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Stillborn Daughter (1672)​

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[2m.] Anne Élisabeth (b.1645) m: 1660 Charles II, King of England, Scotland & Ireland (1630-1685)[6]​

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Charles III, King of England, Scotland & Ireland [from 1685] (b.1663)​

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Henry, Duke of Clarence (b.1667) m:​

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Anne (1668-1668)​

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George, Duke of Northumberland (b.1669) m: 1683 Elizabeth, Baroness Percy (b.1667)​

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Mary (b.1670)​

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Elizabeth (b.1672)​

[2m.] Jeanne (1648-1649)​

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[1] Louis XIII dies of the pulmonary lesion he suffered in 1630.
[2] this isn't that unlikely. Marguerite was presented to Gaston in 1629 already, so...why not let a marriage through as soon as the court of France is out of mourning for the late king? I went with more or less OTL names for her daughters
[3] as per the marriage contract, these fiefs are entailed to a second son, or failing that, to a daughter who is to marry the dauphin or the king of France
[4] yup. OTL Baltasar Carlos survives
[5] Catherine of Braganza is queen of France and has kids. As @Vitruvius pointed out, if Baltasar Carlos doesn't die, France is less interested in Maria Teresa. And even less so with no "vindication" of Anne of Austria by giving birth to Louis XIV TTL.
[6] Catherine of Braganza and La Grande Mademoiselle being unavailable (not to mention no Mazarinettes to catch Charlie's eye) a match with the French king's sister isn't necessarily the worst option
[7] daughter of Maria Teresa of Spain and Leopold I
[8] daughter of Cosimo III and Henrietta Anne Stuart (mostly because I honestly don't know where else to put her)
[9] daughter of Maximlian I and Anne of Austria, Dowager Queen of France (her cousin Maria Anna ends up in Poland instead because reasons)

@isabella @VVD0D95 @Zygmunt Stary @Valena @Comte de Dordogne

I like this, rhe shir storm from Charles marryinf a French princess will be glorious aha

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I like this, rhe shir storm from Charles marryinf a French princess will be glorious aha

Figure that with the most likely contestants (Catherine of Braganza, Maria Teresa of Spain and the Dowager Empress, Eleonora Gonzaga) out of the running, a French match is probably the likeliest match for him, even though people are going to be probably pushing for a Protestant one, there's a shortage of "suitable" candidates (Anna Sofia of Denmark and the princess of Saxony are the only ones who spring to mind)

 

[VVD0D95]

Figure that with the most likely contestants (Catherine of Braganza, Maria Teresa of Spain and the Dowager Empress, Eleonora Gonzaga) out of the running, a French match is probably the likeliest match for him, even though people are going to be probably pushing for a Protestant one, there's a shortage of "suitable" candidates (Anna Sofia of Denmark and the princess of Saxony are the only ones who spring to mind)

Oh agreed plus one imagines his French cousin will come with a pretty big dowry

 

[isabella]

Another work-in-progress (as always), in my usual timeframe. POD is Philip the Good of Burgundy and Isabella of Portugal having another surviving child, a daughter who married March.

Isabelle, Yorkist Queen

Philip III, Duke of Burgundy (1396-1467) married a) Michelle of France (1395-1422) in 1409, b) Bonne of Artois (1396-1425) in 1424, c) Isabella of Portugal (1397-1471) in 1430

1. c) Anthony, Count of Charolais (1430-1432)
2. c) Joseph, Count of Charolais (1432)
3. c) Charles I, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1433) married a) Catherine of France (1428-1448) in 1440, b) Isabella of Bourbon (1437-1465) in 1454, c) Margaret of York (b. 1446) in 1468
   1. a) John, Duke of Burgundy and Lorraine (b. 1448) married Isabella II, Duchess of Lorraine (b. 1445) in 1462
      1. Charles, King of Lorraine (b. 1463) married Anne of France (b. 1461)
      2. Isabelle (1465-1470)
      3. Marie (1468)
   2. b) Mary (b. 1457) married Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1459) in 1475
4. c) miscarriage
5. c) stillborn daughter (1436)
6. c) Isabella (b. 1438) married Edward of York, Earl of March (b. 1442) in 1456
   1. see under Edward​

Edward IV, King of England (b. 1442) married Isabella of Burgundy (b. 1438) in 1456

1. Isabella (1457)
2. Richard III, King of England (b. 1459) married Isabella of Viseu (b. 1459)
3. Edmund, Duke of York (1460)
4. Edward, Duke of York (b. 1462) married Cecily Bonville, Baroness Harington (b. 1461)
5. Cecily (b. 1464) married John IV, Duke of Brittany (b. 1463)
6. Margaret (1466-1468)
7. John, Duke of Bedford (b. 1467) married Anne de Mowbray, Countess of Norfolk (b. 1472)
8. Anne (b. 1469) married Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)
9. Catherine (b. 1472) married James IV, King of Scotland (b. 1473)

 

[isabella]

Work-in-progress as usual. POD is Elizabeth Woodville being daughter of Bedford’s first wife Anne of Burgundy (who survived him and remarried to Richard Woodville after being widowed).

Anne, Duchess of Bedford

Anne of Burgundy (b. 1404) married a) John of Lancaster, Duke of Bedford (1389-1433) in 1423 b) Sir Richard Woodville, later Baron then Earl Rivers (b. 1405) in 1434

1. b) John Woodville, Earl Rivers (b. 1435) married Anne Beaufort (b. 1435)
2. b) Anthony Woodville, Baron Scales (b. 1437) married Elizabeth Scales, Baroness Scales (b. 1431)
3. b) Elizabeth Woodville (b. 1439) married Edward of York, Earl of March (b. 1442)
4. b) Sir Richard Woodville (b. 1441)

Edward IV, King of England (b. 1442) married Elizabeth Woodville (b. 1439) in 1457

1. Richard III, King of England (b. 1458) married Isabella of Viseu (b. 1459)
2. Elizabeth (b. 1460) married Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1459)
3. Edward, Duke of York (b. 1462) married Cecily Bonville, Baroness Harington (b. 1460)
4. Edmund, Duke of Kent (b. 1464) married Catherine, Queen of Navarre (b. 1468)
5. Cecily (b. 1467) married John VI, Duke of Brittany (b. 1463)
6. John, Duke of Bedford (b. 1470) married Anne de Mowbray, Countess of Norfolk (b. 1472)
7. Anne (b. 1472) married Charles II, King of Lorraine (b. 1473)*
8. Eleanor (b. 1475) married James IV, King of Scotland (b. 1473)
9. Catherine (b. 1477) married John III, King of Spain (b. 1478)

NOTES:
*son of Mary of Burgundy and Nicholas of Anjou

Here Elizabeth is daughter of a much more important princess than her OTL mother and her wedding to Edward of March is arranged by her uncle Philip III of Burgundy and specially her cousin, Charles the Bold, who insisted over the match after being forced to renounce to marry Anne of York

 

[kasumigenx]

Philip of Burgundy m. Joanna of Castile d. 1507(a) Anna of Brandenburg(b)

1a. Eleanor b. 1499 m. John III of Portugal

2a. Charles I of Spain b. 1500 m. Isabella of Portugal

3a. Isabella b. 1501

4a. Ferdinand b. 1503 m. Bona Sforza

5a. Mary b. 1505

6a. Catherine b. 1507

7b. Rudolf b. 1508 m. Anne of Bohemia and Hungary[1]

8b. Margaret b. 1510

9b. Anna b. 1512

1. Married due to bloodline/claims.

 

[The_Most_Happy]

Let's say Henry VIII had a surviving son with Anne Boleyn. Who could we expect to say Mary Tudor marry? I was thinking Wilhelm, Duke of Cleves, but I was wondering if anyone else had any better ideas?

@isabella @pandizzy @FalconHonour @VVD0D95 @Kellan Sullivan @WillVictoria

 

[pandizzy]

Let's say Henry VIII had a surviving son with Anne Boleyn. Who could we expect to say Mary Tudor marry? I was thinking Wilhelm, Duke of Cleves, but I was wondering if anyone else had any better ideas?

@isabella @pandizzy @FalconHonour @VVD0D95 @Kellan Sullivan @WillVictoria

If she marries someone she wants, then probably a catholic. But if not, then Wilhelm sounds like a good choice. There's also Philip of Bavaria.

 

[Cate13]

Let's say Henry VIII had a surviving son with Anne Boleyn. Who could we expect to say Mary Tudor marry? I was thinking Wilhelm, Duke of Cleves, but I was wondering if anyone else had any better ideas?

I doubt Mary would be allowed to leave England, so my guess for a groom would be an Englishman that Henry trusts.

 

[HortenseMancini]

Let's say Henry VIII had a surviving son with Anne Boleyn. Who could we expect to say Mary Tudor marry? I was thinking Wilhelm, Duke of Cleves, but I was wondering if anyone else had any better ideas?

@isabella @pandizzy @FalconHonour @VVD0D95 @Kellan Sullivan @WillVictoria

Someone English and insignificant. Mary would still pose a significant threat to a son of Henry and Anne, so she will need to be neutralized. Honestly, Henry would be best not to let her marry at all.

 

[The_Most_Happy]

I doubt Mary would be allowed to leave England, so my guess for a groom would be an Englishman that Henry trusts.

Someone English and insignificant. Mary would still pose a significant threat to a son of Henry and Anne, so she will need to be neutralized. Honestly, Henry would be best not to let her marry at all.

I just don't see Mary being allowed to marry an Englishman since it would keep her in the country and give the Catholics in England a quite literal rallying point... plus, at this point, I don't think Henry trusted anyone enough to marry Mary, except maybe Charles Brandon (already married at this point).

 

[HortenseMancini]

I just don't see Mary being allowed to marry an Englishman since it would keep her in the country and give the Catholics in England a quite literal rallying point... plus, at this point, I don't think Henry trusted anyone enough to marry Mary, except maybe Charles Brandon (already married at this point).

Exactly why he can't allow her to marry at all.

 

[Cate13]

I just don't see Mary being allowed to marry an Englishman since it would keep her in the country and give the Catholics in England

So, it's a super long shot (but it would be interesting) but a weird combination of a foreign yet not foreign match would be an Irishman. The way the English viewed the Irish, it'd do a lot to keep her children from challenging their cousins.

 

[isabella]

Let's say Henry VIII had a surviving son with Anne Boleyn. Who could we expect to say Mary Tudor marry? I was thinking Wilhelm, Duke of Cleves, but I was wondering if anyone else had any better ideas?

@isabella @pandizzy @FalconHonour @VVD0D95 @Kellan Sullivan @WillVictoria

Considering who Mary do NOT married in OTL, when her father’s heir was born by his third wedding, legitimate for everyone, I can not see her married to anyone if said heir is born by Anne (well, unless George Boleyn is widowed)

 

[kasumigenx]

I think Mary can marry the OTL brother(s) of Frances Brandon if they survived.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

If she marries someone she wants, then probably a catholic. But if not, then Wilhelm sounds like a good choice. There's also Philip of Bavaria.

Neither Wilhelm nor Phil would be her choice (or her father's), since both require the political situation to be identical to OTL. Wilhelm was more interested in marrying first Kristina/Dorothea of Denmark (daughters of Christian II), then when thwarted there, he married Jeanne of Navarre. Then when that marriage was set aside, he married an Austrian archduchess. All of which benefitted him in some way. In the 1530s. Kristina/Dorothea as heiresses to the "spotty rich kid with a cool car" that was Julich, Jeanne because it got him French backing against Karl V, hjis Habsburg wife because it made peace with Karl over Guelders. Until Anne of Cleves married into England, England has no "pull" on Imperial affairs.
Phil's not gonna marry her for the same reason.

Neither Henry nor Anne is going to let her marry outside of England. @desmirelle pointed out once that Anne should've sent Mary to Scotland wrapped in a bow. Not because James wasn't going to invade but rather to "buy him off". James is a royal, and so long as his mom is alive, he's unlikely to invade (not to mention, his dad did that and look what happened). He's Catholic. Scotland isn't overly powerful and it's allied with Anne's great love: France. Karl V can't object because while he might have wanted Mary for his brother-in-law, the duque de Beja (he planned to make them duke and duchess of Milan and his "viceroys" in Italy), he can't deny the opportunity of getting Scotland to ditch the Auld Alliance for a shiny new imperial one.
Will Karl try to get James to invade? Unlikely. Since at Anne's execution in 1536, Elizabeth was betrothed to Felipe II. Karl V was a pragmatist. He made peace with Henry astonishingly quickly after Katherine of Aragon's death. He told his ambassador to inform Mary that "the emperor will not go to war for you" (or essentially, I'm not getting involved). With a son for Henry-Anne (i.e. vindication), Mary's in a much tighter spot by 1536 than she was OTL. Her options are submit or get locked up as a traitor.
See @Space Oddity's TL Now Blooms the Tudor Rose for ideas

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Considering who Mary do NOT married in OTL, when her father’s heir was born by his third wedding, legitimate for everyone, I can not see her married to anyone if said heir is born by Anne (well, unless George Boleyn is widowed)

Anne tried to marry Mary to her cousin, the earl of Surrey, but later changed her mind and persuaded Henry to let Surrey marry Frances de Vere. There was also talk in the early 1540s of Mary's marriage ot Karl V taking place or Henri II's marriage being set aside (due to childlessness), neither happened.

The question of when the son is born is important. After Henry's 1536 jousting accident, he can't have said to have been the most stable of people. He flew into a temper when Karl V refused the remarriage option and suggested his brother-in-law, the duque de Beja (IIRC), and felt the French had been playing with him when Henri II's annulment wasn't granted. If there's a duke of York born a year/eighteen months after Anne's son, maybe a duke of Gloucester/Somerset after that, by 1540, Mary staying unmarried looks odd