List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

[Kellan Sullivan]

Another "Alternate Italy" - although this one is more still work-in-progress. Not sure of some of the marriage partners - like Cesare's kids or Clarisse de Medici (daughter of Piero the Unfortunate), or the fate of Ippolito de Medici:

Lorenzo 'il Magnifico', Lord of Florence [1469-1492] (1449-1492) m: 1469 Clarice Orsini (1453-1488)

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Lucrezia (b.1470) m: 1486 Jacopo Salviati (1461-1533)​

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Stillborn Twins (1471)​

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Piero (1472-1507) m: 1488 Alfonsina Orsini (1472-1520)​

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Lorenzo, Duke of Florence [1513-1521] (1492-1521) m: 1518 Madeleine de la Tour d'Auvergne (b.1495)​

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Caterina (b.1518)​

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Lorenzo II, Duke of Florence [1521-1527; from 1531] (b.1520)​

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Maria (b.1522)​

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[illegitimate] Alessandro, Vice-Chancellor of the Catholic Church [from 1532], Cardinal [from 1522], Archbishop of Avignon [from 1529] (b.1510)​

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Clarice (1493-1528) m:​

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Maria Maddalena (1473-1528) m: 1487 Cesare Borgia, Duke of Urbino [1] (b.1475)​

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Alessandro, Prince of Urbino (b.1492) m: 1510​

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Lucrezia (b.1495)​

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Giovanna (b.1497)​

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Lorenzo (1503-1525)​

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Contessina (1474-1474)​

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Giovanni "Leone", Pope [as Leo X from 1512-1521], Cardinal [from 1492] (1475-1521)​

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Luisa (1477-1488)​

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Contessina (1478-1515) m: 1494​

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Giuliano (1479-1516) m: 1514 Bona Sforza (b.1494)[2]​

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Francesco III, Duke of Milan [from 1537], Duke of Bari, Prince of Rossano (b.1515)​

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[illegitimate] Ippolito (b.1511)​

[1] Rodrigo Borgia is elected in 1484
[2] Leo X actually tried to arrange this marriage OTL, and both Alessandro il Moro and Ippolito de Medici attempted to marry Kristina of Denmark and seize power in Milan that way.

@isabella @VVD0D95 @BlueFlowwer @Jan Olbracht @The_Most_Happy

 

[VVD0D95]

Another "Alternate Italy" - although this one is more still work-in-progress. Not sure of some of the marriage partners - like Cesare's kids or Clarisse de Medici (daughter of Piero the Unfortunate), or the fate of Ippolito de Medici:

Lorenzo 'il Magnifico', Lord of Florence [1469-1492] (1449-1492) m: 1469 Clarice Orsini (1453-1488)

​

Lucrezia (b.1470) m: 1486 Jacopo Salviati (1461-1533)​

​

Stillborn Twins (1471)​

​

Piero (1472-1507) m: 1488 Alfonsina Orsini (1472-1520)​

​

Lorenzo, Duke of Florence [1513-1521] (1492-1521) m: 1518 Madeleine de la Tour d'Auvergne (b.1495)​

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Caterina (b.1518)​

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Lorenzo II, Duke of Florence [1521-1527; from 1531] (b.1520)​

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Maria (b.1522)​

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[illegitimate] Alessandro, Vice-Chancellor of the Catholic Church [from 1532], Cardinal [from 1522], Archbishop of Avignon [from 1529] (b.1510)​

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Clarice (1493-1528) m:​

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Maria Maddalena (1473-1528) m: 1487 Cesare Borgia, Duke of Urbino [1] (b.1475)​

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Alessandro, Prince of Urbino (b.1492) m: 1510​

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Lucrezia (b.1495)​

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Giovanna (b.1497)​

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Lorenzo (1503-1525)​

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Contessina (1474-1474)​

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Giovanni "Leone", Pope [as Leo X from 1512-1521], Cardinal [from 1492] (1475-1521)​

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Luisa (1477-1488)​

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Contessina (1478-1515) m: 1494​

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Giuliano (1479-1516) m: 1514 Bona Sforza (b.1494)[2]​

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Francesco III, Duke of Milan [from 1537], Duke of Bari, Prince of Rossano (b.1515)​

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[illegitimate] Ippolito (b.1511)​

[1] Rodrigo Borgia is elected in 1484
[2] Leo X actually tried to arrange this marriage OTL, and both Alessandro il Moro and Ippolito de Medici attempted to marry Kristina of Denmark and seize power in Milan that way.

@isabella @VVD0D95 @BlueFlowwer @Jan Olbracht @The_Most_Happy

My Medici fanboy just squeezed. Also cesare to a Medici is something I’d love to see

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

My Medici fanboy just squeezed. Also cesare to a Medici is something I’d love to see

Was considering Lucrezia for Piero, but then saw the age gap was too big to be really "credible" - and the only other Borgia girl available, Isabella (ancestress of the Mazarinettes) married in 1483 already. So...CesarexMaddalena it is.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Gioffre Borgia probably winds up in the church TTL with Juan marrying Sancha of Aragon. Unless @isabella has another suggestions

 

[isabella]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. You're the one who pointed out that Eleanor of Aquitaine was 11 years older than Henry II when I was having cold feet about marrying young François to Renee of Brittany. I think an 8 year age gap is doable. Not ideal, but doable....

Eleanor, like her mother-in-law Maud and ATL Renee was an international heiress something who Marguerite is not. The point is who Charles has nothing to gain from such match (and he was a lot snob) as Marguerite is an older and childless widow without any lands.

 

[isabella]

Another "Alternate Italy" - although this one is more still work-in-progress. Not sure of some of the marriage partners - like Cesare's kids or Clarisse de Medici (daughter of Piero the Unfortunate), or the fate of Ippolito de Medici:

Lorenzo 'il Magnifico', Lord of Florence [1469-1492] (1449-1492) m: 1469 Clarice Orsini (1453-1488)

​

Lucrezia (b.1470) m: 1486 Jacopo Salviati (1461-1533)​

​

Stillborn Twins (1471)​

​

Piero (1472-1507) m: 1488 Alfonsina Orsini (1472-1520)​

​

Lorenzo, Duke of Florence [1513-1521] (1492-1521) m: 1518 Madeleine de la Tour d'Auvergne (b.1495)​

​

Caterina (b.1518)​

​

Lorenzo II, Duke of Florence [1521-1527; from 1531] (b.1520)​

​

Maria (b.1522)​

​

[illegitimate] Alessandro, Vice-Chancellor of the Catholic Church [from 1532], Cardinal [from 1522], Archbishop of Avignon [from 1529] (b.1510)​

​

Clarice (1493-1528) m:​

​

Maria Maddalena (1473-1528) m: 1487 Cesare Borgia, Duke of Urbino [1] (b.1475)​

​

Alessandro, Prince of Urbino (b.1492) m: 1510​

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Lucrezia (b.1495)​

​

Giovanna (b.1497)​

​

Lorenzo (1503-1525)​

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Contessina (1474-1474)​

​

Giovanni "Leone", Pope [as Leo X from 1512-1521], Cardinal [from 1492] (1475-1521)​

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Luisa (1477-1488)​

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Contessina (1478-1515) m: 1494​

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Giuliano (1479-1516) m: 1514 Bona Sforza (b.1494)[2]​

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Francesco III, Duke of Milan [from 1537], Duke of Bari, Prince of Rossano (b.1515)​

​

[illegitimate] Ippolito (b.1511)​

[1] Rodrigo Borgia is elected in 1484
[2] Leo X actually tried to arrange this marriage OTL, and both Alessandro il Moro and Ippolito de Medici attempted to marry Kristina of Denmark and seize power in Milan that way.

@isabella @VVD0D95 @BlueFlowwer @Jan Olbracht @The_Most_Happy

Absolutely loving it.

My Medici fanboy just squeezed. Also cesare to a Medici is something I’d love to see

Was considering Lucrezia for Piero, but then saw the age gap was too big to be really "credible" - and the only other Borgia girl available, Isabella (ancestress of the Mazarinettes) married in 1483 already. So...CesarexMaddalena it i s.

Alexander elected earlier and Cesare married to Maddalena is a good thing.

Gioffre Borgia probably winds up in the church TTL with Juan marrying Sancha of Aragon. Unless @isabella has another suggestions

For me work fine in this way. For Lucrezia?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

For Lucrezia?

Maybe skipped husband no. 1 and went straight to husband no. 2?

 

[isabella]

Maybe skipped husband no. 1 and went straight to husband no. 2?

Yesssss

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Yesssss

Any suggestions for a marriage partner for Clarice di Piero or Contessina de Lorenzo de Medici? Both of them married in the 1490s/1500s, so it seems unlikely to me that they'd still marry Strozzi/Ridolfi.

 

[HortenseMancini]

Maybe skipped husband no. 1 and went straight to husband no. 2?

👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good shit go౦ԁ sHit👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌shit right👌👌there👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯 i say so 💯 thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good shit

 

[CaptainShadow]

👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good shit go౦ԁ sHit👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌shit right👌👌there👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯 i say so 💯 thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good shit

What

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

What

Apparently not a lot of love for Giovanni Sforza di Pesaro here

 

[CalBear]

👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good shit go౦ԁ sHit👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌shit right👌👌there👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯 i say so 💯 thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good shit

Switch to decaf.

 

[HortenseMancini]

Apparently not a lot of love for Giovanni Sforza di Pesaro here

It's historically unwarranted but I can't quite let go of The Borgias portrayal of him lmao

 

[isabella]

Apparently not a lot of love for Giovanni Sforza di Pesaro here

Mostly that wedding was a disaster while Alfonso of Aragon was Lucrezia’s true love so...

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Mostly that wedding was a disaster while Alfonso of Aragon was Lucrezia’s true love so...

Thought that was d'Este?

 

[HortenseMancini]

Thought that was d'Este?

Lucrezia had affairs with with the marquis of mantua and pietro bembo while married to d'este...my bet is that he was not the love of her life.

 

[Zazou]

POD: Henry Frederick Prince of Wales lives, and so does Anna Maria Vasa of Poland.

James I, King of England Scotland and Ireland (1566-1625) m. Anne of Denmark (1574-1619)

1. Henry IX, King of England Scotland and Ireland (1594 1651) m. Anna Maria Vasa of Poland (1593-1653) with issue.
2. Elizabeth Stuart (1596-1662) m. Frederick V, Elector Palatine (1596-1632) with issue.
3. Margaret (1598-1660)
4. Charles, Duke of York and Albany (1600-1657) m. Marie de La Tour d’Auvergne (1601-1665) with issue.
5. Robert, Duke of Kintyre (1602-1602)
6. Mary (1605-1607)
7. Sophie (1607-1607)

 

[isabella]

Thought that was d'Este?

They were good together, but definitely NOT in love.

Lucrezia had affairs with with the marquis of mantua and pietro bembo while married to d'este...my bet is that he was not the love of her life.

That aside, is clear who Lucrezia’s greatest love was the unlucky Duke of Bisceglie

 

[VVD0D95]

POD: Henry Frederick Prince of Wales lives, and so does Anna Maria Vasa of Poland.

James I, King of England Scotland and Ireland (1566-1625) m. Anne of Denmark (1574-1619)

1. Henry IX, King of England Scotland and Ireland (1594 1651) m. Anna Maria Vasa of Poland (1593-1653) with issue.
2. Elizabeth Stuart (1596-1662) m. Frederick V, Elector Palatine (1596-1632) with issue.
3. Margaret (1598-1660)
4. Charles, Duke of York and Albany (1600-1657) m. Marie de La Tour d’Auvergne (1601-1665) with issue.
5. Robert, Duke of Kintyre (1602-1602)
6. Mary (1605-1607)
7. Sophie (1607-1607)

Mind if I pinch this?