WI: The Enterprise completes its five year mission (Star Trek survives for 5 seasons)

[dsp19]

A list of Starfleet Intelligence episodes through three seasons...

SEASON 1:

1. The Starfleet Conspiracy (series premiere)
2. Federation Divided
3. The Tal Shiar
4. Cat and Mouse
5. The Romulan Underground
6. The Dilithium Gambit
7. Karlax's Choice
8. The Triangle
9. The Tellarite Trial
10. The Cloaking Device
11. Injustice
12. War Plans
13. Urska
14. The Betazed Debate
15. Echoes of the Past
16. A Bend in Space Time
17. We Served the Empire
18. The Dirty War
19. The New Recruits
20. A New Alliance
21. Neras
22. The Breen
23. Mehkan
24. The Morals We Fight For (season finale)

SEASON 2:

25. The Band is Back Together (season premiere)
26. Escape from Mursk
27. Murder on Starbase 7
28. Dissension
29. The Venus Device
30. The Klingon Super-Weapon
31. Grief on Betazed
32. The Disease
33. The War Exercises
34. Doubts
35. The Shoot Down
36. The Refuse
37. Mutually Assured Destruction
38. The Archanis Coup
39. Arcturus Meltdown
40. Let Us Play Our Music
41. A Klingon Party
42. The Double Agent
43. Leave No Person Behind
44. The Huntan Dispute
45. The Romulan Ghost
46. A Tribble Crisis
47. The Separatists, Part I
48. The Separatists, Part II (season finale)

SEASON 3:

49. Nerva (Season premiere)
50. The Fountain of Youth
51. Ulterior Motives
52. Back to Miri
53. Dividing the Empire
54. Genocide on Beta Polaris
55. The Missing
56. The Bitterest of Enemies
57. The Denevan Famine
58. Subspace Distortions
59. The Museum Ship
60. The Ferengi, Part I
61. The Ferengi, Part II
62. Blowback, Part I
63. Blowback, Part II
64. The Marooned
65. Mind Games
66. The Ribbons, Part I
67. The Ribbons, Part II
68. Old Loyalties
69. The Tears of the Singers
70. Never Again
71. The Savior, Part I
72. The Savior, Part II (Season Finale).

Two seasons to go...

 

[dsp19]

Next update will be May and June 1985, so it'll be long. I'm not exactly sure when I'll write it (hopefully sometime this weekend), but there's a lot to cover. For those who weren't able to read the thread last night, I did an update and a list of all the SI episodes

 

[dsp19]

Instead of writing articles for this update, I'm going to go with a narrative for a variety of topics.

John Glenn's foreign trip

On May 8, President Glenn set out to the UK to meet both Queen Elizabeth II and Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. Glenn stayed in London for three days, strengthening the bilateral relationship between. In a joint press conference, Glenn and Thatcher promised that the UK would continue developing the Trident program first set out by President Reagan when he met Thatcher in 1981. The President and Prime Minister also announced plans for a bilateral trade deal, which would lower tariffs between the United States and the UK. There were also plans to develop a UK space program, with American support, in exchange for British scientific knowledge regarding the effects of long-term space travel on astronauts. However, the press conference was interrupted by news of a tragedy in Bradford. A fire swept through Valley Parade, Bradford City's soccer stadium, killing 56 and injuring hundreds of other unfortunate victims. Outwardly, Glenn was sympathetic to Thatcher's plight; it was a national tragedy. However, news leaked about Glenn's real thoughts; he told his advisers, "If that happened in Ohio, the governor would have to resign." Glenn's secret comments set off another firestorm in the UK press. How could the President kneecap Maggie Thatcher like that, said The Sun and the Daily Mail, pro-Thatcher tabloids. However, 70% of Britons agreed with Glenn's assessment of the situation, and Thatcher faced a crisis that could cost her the Prime Minister's seat. Polls a week after the Valley Parade Fire showed Labour leader Neil Kinnock seven points ahead of Thatcher in a hypothetical election, fueled by absolute hatred of the Prime Minister pretty much everywhere north of Birmingham. Thatcher was even facing cries from Tory ministers to do something about the spiraling dual crisis of hooliganism and safety at soccer stadiums. Thatcher tasked Leon Brittan, the Home Secretary, to write a report on the state of soccer in the UK. The Brittan Report found that hooliganism was out of control, and demanded that every team convert three-quarters of their stadiums from standing room to seating by January 1, 1989. Additionally, the standing room only section attendance was required to be cut by 25 percent, citing the near disaster that occurred at Hillsborough in 1981 with Tottenham fans in an FA Cup match, among other crush incidents that nearly turned deadly. Many of the top clubs balked at this, but Thatcher remained strong in her stance: rebuild your stadiums or get kicked out of the Football League. The clubs duly complied; but the largest end of each stadium, such as the Kop at Anfield and the Stretford End at Old Trafford, remained standing-room only. Glenn was accused by some Tories of attempting to promote Labour instead of Thatcher's Tories, but the President, when pressed on his comments, said that "every democratically elected leader is accountable to their citizenry. I am glad that Mrs. Thatcher is taking the necessary steps to protect the British people from dangerous situations."

Glenn then crossed the Channel to France, to meet President Francois Mitterrand. The press conference was largely uneventful. Mitterrand praised Glenn for speaking a small amount of French in his news conference. Glenn complimented the notoriously fickle French weather, saying that he always wanted to take his wife Annie, the First Lady, to Paris in May. Mitterrand was pleased that the weather cooperated for Glenn's visit. In France, Glenn visited the Normandy cemetery to pay tribute to the American lives lost over 40 years earlier in the crusade to liberate France from Nazi oppression. The President traveled to Italy, where he was faced with significant protests against American nuclear policy. Italians felt that they would be cannon fodder in a war against the Soviet Union. Glenn promised that he would reduce the number of nuclear missiles in Europe, but only if the Soviets agreed. Glenn was faced with more protests against nuclear weapons in West Germany, where he met Helmut Kohl, the West German chancellor. Kohl faced domestic pressure to tell Glenn to continue the missile drawdown, but once again, the President said he could only do it if the Soviets reciprocated. From Bonn, Glenn traveled to Brussels to chair a NATO meeting over the Memorial Day holiday. The President promised not to withdraw any conventional forces from Western Europe; as a matter of fact, depending on the Geneva summit, Glenn could order more deployments to West Germany.

Finally, the moment of truth came: on June 1, 1985, Glenn would meet Mikhail Gorbachev, the Soviet General Secretary, in Geneva. The summit lasted a week, and although there were some harsh exchanges, Glenn and Gorbachev were cordial. The first ladies of each nation, Annie Glenn and Raisa Gorbacheva, developed a close friendship, despite the language barrier. They were seen in Geneva at a cafe sipping their morning coffee and smiling for the cameras. The most important news occurred behind the scenes. Secretary of State Jimmy Carter was making headway with Soviet Foreign Minister Andrei Gromyko on a variety of topics. Six days later, Glenn and Gorbachev held a press conference. The following points of agreement were outlined in what was known as the Geneva Bilateral Treaty of 1985. They included:

1. American support to the government in Afghanistan, led by Mohammad Najibullah, who would hold free elections in 1986, observed by both the United States and Soviet Union. Both nations would send support to the Afghan army against the mujahideen threatening Najibullah's fragile government. Carter saw this as a backdoor method to turn Afghanistan to the West. Gromyko saw this as a way to strengthen a pro-Soviet government on their turbulent Central Asian borders.
2. A further reduction of intercontinental ballistic missiles by 50 percent from 1985 to 1989, and the concurring reduction of nuclear weaponry based in Europe by 50 percent.
3. Five-party talks regarding the Israeli-Arab conflict. The United States, Soviet Union, Great Britain, Israel, and Jordan would determine the fate of the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Eventually, these talks would include the PLO, led by Yasser Arafat, when the Soviet Union insisted upon their presence. Reaction in the Middle East was almost universally negative, but Carter asserted that both Israel and Jordan would receive a voice on their future, and managed to get them to the table for talks.
4. An arms embargo against both Iraq and Iran. The United States would enforce it on the NATO end, and the Soviet Union would enforce it on the Warsaw Pact end.
5. An end to Soviet involvement in the Nicaraguan Civil War. The United States would also reduce, but not eliminate all funding for the Somoza regime. If the Americans had to accept Afghanistan as a Communist state, the Soviets had to accept the fact that the Sandistinas would lose.

Glenn and Gorbachev ended their press conference with a famous handshake. When Glenn returned home, he was faced with praise from some quarters, but anger from others. The conservative foreign policy lobby, led by Donald Rumsfeld, could not accept that American support would go to Najibullah's government. That was a step too far. Additionally, the Jewish community was angered by the fact that the Soviet Union and Jordan would be included in talks regarding the fate of the Palestinians. They would likely press for the application of UN Resolution 242, a position unacceptable to Israel. Secretary of State Carter had some serious questions raised against him in terms of whether he supported Israel's right to exist. Meanwhile, Glenn was facing a significant fight over the urban renewal bill at home, which would drag out all summer. Protests against Democratic congressmen were leveled, and Glenn's support, despite all he had done, slipped to 51 percent in a Gallup poll.

STAR TREK

Harve Bennett looked over the offer from 20th Century Fox. He would acquire complete control over the fledgling Fox television network, expected to become the fifth major network. However, Bennett was nervous. He knew Rupert Murdoch's reputation as a sleaze hound, and wondered if he could work for him, knowing that Murdoch liked to meddle. The money was comparable to what Barry Diller, his boss, was making at Paramount, and that was extremely hard to turn down. Plus, Bennett would never get a shot to lead Paramount Television Network. If Diller left, either Michael Eisner or Mel Harris were favored over him for CEO. One of them would run the company while the other would run the network. Bennett was not interested in the Disney division, and Jeffrey Katzenberg proved a very reliable young exec revitalizing the House of Mouse. Despite all these things, Bennett really didn't want to work for Murdoch, fearing that he wouldn't have total control over Fox's content.

Bennett met with Diller and Eisner in Paramount's executive boardroom. Both of them told Bennett he'd be crazy not to take control of Fox television. Diller said, "I'm actually kind of afraid for what would happen to Paramount, because you'd turn Fox into a powerful network pretty quickly, if they gave you the right support. Eisner concurred. "If you make it as a TV network boss, you'd be one of the most powerful men in the country, and you could tell Murdoch where to shove it." Bennett slept over it for a night. On June 16, 1985, Bennett announced he would leave for Fox, but not before the next Star Trek movie was released, in November 1986. Bennett wanted to talk to the Star Trek actors, who he worked with so swimmingly for two movies and two television programs. William Shatner thanked Bennett, calling him "one of the best bosses I've ever worked for." Leonard Nimoy said, "We'll miss you, Harve. You helped me become a director, and made me better at my craft." The rest of the cast was also supportive of Bennett, but George Takei and Nichelle Nichols had misgivings. Takei said to Bennett that "Murdoch is going to chew you up and spit you out. I think you should reconsider." Nichols thought Bennett was the key to Starfleet Intelligence surviving, and feared for her well-earned status as one of the top television actresses of the 1980s. "I know Gene Roddenberry well," Nichols told Bennett. "He's going to take Starfleet Intelligence in a direction where it'll be impossible for the show to remain popular, because of his personal beliefs. Gene is a great man, but you're a better executive." Despite Takei and Nichols' pleas, Bennett said the decision was final, and after Star Trek IV, he would become the CEO of Fox Television.

Nichols, upon hearing the news, placed a call to Robert Justman, the old trusted show runner on the original series, to see if he was receptive to taking over her show...

1985 MOVIES

The box office take struggled more in 1985 than expected. A View to a Kill, the first James Bond movie featuring Timothy Dalton, premiered on Memorial Day Weekend, but only made $65 million in the United States, which displeased Albert R. Broccoli. He considered sacking Dalton after one outing, but gave him a second chance with the next Bond installment, The Living Daylights. The Goonies was a box office bomb; it only made $20 million off a $19 million budget. Steven Spielberg's sterling reputation as one of the top directors in Hollywood took a hit. However, Fox's science fiction outing, Cocoon, performed better than expected, earning $90 million stateside and $175 million overall. Cocoon was a big hit in Europe, and Fox considered a sequel. The biggest movie of the summer was Rambo II: First Blood. It made over $200 million stateside, and became the top movie of 1985, surpassing Back to the Future, which finished second in box office receipts that year. Paramount would have struck out in the summer of 1985 if it wasn't for Disney saving the day. A re-release of Fantasia grossed $70 million, and The Black Cauldron, the first Disney movie to receive a PG rating, was a major hit, earning $125 million.

Additional notes:

--The 1985 European Cup Final was held without incident in Barcelona. Juventus defeated Liverpool 1-0 through a Michel Platini goal. Everton, the 1985 First Division Champions, would qualify for the 1986 European Cup.

--Paramount Television Network slipped to third in the ratings, trailing CBS and NBC, but ahead of ABC.

--20th Century Fox announced the development of a Star Wars cartoon, to begin airing in 1986.

--NASA announced the start of the Mars Survival program, which would attempt to simulate Martian conditions in a laboratory.

 

[Ogrebear]

Seems I am a few updates behind....

The Social Security Act of 1985 - good plan, but trying social security funds to the stock market might go badly wrong without reforms. Did Reagan pass all his deregulation bills that (I am told) paved the way to the 2008 crash? Is Investments/Savings/Mortage market as complex and messed up as OTL has become?

The Medicare Expansion Act of 1985 - "covers all adults who are not covered by employer healthcare plans" - how is this paid for? Is this a 'contribution' from wages like the Nation Insurance payments the UK uses for the NHS or something else? Who pays for unemployed workers? Can Hospitals choose not to treat Medicare users?

Medical Pricing Control Act of 1985- well the price cap in this gets scrapped or pushed through the roof next time the Republicans can get away with it. Does the Act have provision for rising drug prices cos the Pharma cartels can just jack up prices and claim they need the cap raised...

Infrastructure Revitalization Act of 1985 - needed, but this one might be harder sell unless its spun as providing jobs.

Decent record so far Prez Glen.

Still waiting for the Moon Base though.

Charles Bluhdorn - giant of the entertainment industry. At least he got to see Godfather III made.

I cannot see this timeline's Gulf+Western selling off its non-entertainment manufacturing assets during the 80's

Under Bluhdorn the company diversified into a variety of businesses that included stamping metal bumpers, financial services, manufacturing, apparel, home and consumer products, agricultural, auto parts, natural resources, building products, entertainment, and publishing.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_and_Western_Industries

Strongly suspect that due to changed circumstances the company hold onto its assets and seek to expand and consolidate, for example bringing Sega, Simon and Schuster, Disney, and Paramount closer together to produce games for their IP. Maybe even doing something with alt energy since they made an electric car in 1980 OTL.

Humph a show not being in the Top 10 of the Nielsen ratings does not mean its a failure. Outside the Top 20 maybe. Starfleet Intelligence is a strong show. Wish we could could see it OTL.

Strong list of films in the 57th Academy Awards.

Who plays Ross Barkuss in Starfleet Intelligence, please?

The Federation-Tzenkethi war over a cancelled arms deal seems a bit of a weak excuse for a war. Wonder if there was someone else behind the Tzenkethi?

Seems the Andorians never id get their revenge though.

Never make a promise like that Roth...

"Infrastructure Revitalization Act of 1985 allocates $350 billion...." well that's a big chunk of change there. High speed rail in the BosWash corridor will help the Megalopolis a lot. Hope there are some competent people in charge at the various departments spending that lot. Cross country rail could also do with a boost I figure. Plus those again nuclear plants probably need help.

Thinking of technology and infrastructure, it might be interesting if the French Telecom Minitel system was shared across the EEC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel - a Community wide network is easily possible, it went international, it just needed more of an EC level push. A similar system in the US would be entirely possible. Perhaps Pres Mitterrand can show it to him when he visits?

Americans with Disabilities Act of 1985 - wonder how they defined 'disabilities'?

Genocide on Beta Polaris is def going to feature in a lot of Trek 'best ever' episode lists.

57th Academy Awards - heh sorry Bill. Perhaps Leonard will let you hold his Oscar?

Heck of a sweep for The Godfather, Part III - given its a better movie ITTL I guess it deserves it.

Karlax is getting a lot of SI shows, Perlman is proving his acting chops here. Is he getting offers outside of SI?

Given SI is such as success could Beauty and the Beast be produced by and aired on Paramount?

At the moment I cannot see anyone beating Glenn in 1988.

If he gets better scripts and a better companion I could see Colin Baker staying on Doctor Who longer. With US cash coming in the BBC are going to go and try and kill it like OTL. Paramount is too strong a link to the US market, so decent scripts, better sets, no stupid coat, and no Bonnie Langford would be the order of the day imho. Colin would probably enjoy filming episodes in America. I could see a series of stories set across America and the Commonwealth aiming to boost sales across all markets. Baker could easily go to 1991 to match Tom Baker. Perhaps McCoy takes over then?

As long as the US connection lasts there is no shutdown and no McGann movie.

"Star Wars/20th Century Fox will definitely launch an animated series as early as 1986" - I can see this. I can also see Lucas folding to studio pressure with such a successful Trek franchise and allowing a Star Wars TV show, though he won't direct, or maybe even produce. Fox will def want to utilise its biggest IP's it can.

I know you want Rodenberry back in charge of Trek, but Harve Bennett going to head a whole TV studio considering the Empire he has carved out at Gulf+Western/Paramount? Esp with Murdoch micromanaging. As an alt suggestion, have Roddenberry find a way to unseat Bennett somehow, and take back over, then Bennett goes to Lucasfilm and produces a Star Wars TV/film revival show? Such a backstab would fit Roddenberry's mo imho.

Family Farms Act of 1985 - seems like a very good piece of law. However I cannot see much preventing the loss of American rural life. I was told by @Prometheus_2300 that American rural life has been dying for many, many years and even and Act that "prohibits agribusinesses from acquiring more than 25 percent of land in any county in the United States" isn't going to stop it, but I can see it slowing down the drain.

"an urban renewal bill" - I can see a lot of racism getting tied up into his one. Perhaps this one will be the one that fails?

""Latin America is full of tinpot, right-wing dictators propped up by the United States," Gromyko said." - he is not wrong either. Fear of these governments falling to 'communists' left a lot of people suffering under some terrible people and crippling so many places development. The US needed to learn to give a little on socialism = communism.

"Both sides want to see a settlement between Israel and her Arab neighbours." - you are not alone there!

William Shatner, that was first class, 10/10 whinging there.

Has Shatner got another job since Galactica?

Poor Tor! At least Karlax revenged him.

A big fight to protect Chancellor K'Pac is a great TV moment, nice and action filled with high stakes. Karlax nearly making the top tier of Klingon society is impressive given he is not a noble. Great series finale!

I am honestly surprised Thatcher stayed in power after that crisis. Glenn did her no favours, but he is also right here. Also a change of PM would have still left the Tories in power- likely Michael Heseltine would have won a 1985 leadership contest- I can see the Westland Affair butterflied away if Thatcher's blood is in the water. Even with the Britton Report I could see a vote of no confidence inside the Tory MP's and a trigger for a leadership contest similar to 1995. Thatcher would go into it determined to cement her hold and 'shut up' her critics. I suspect she would not win.

Geneva Bilateral Treaty of 1985 - good work on both sides there esp in the Israeli-Arab conflict. Including the PLO, despite their rep will help 'sell' the deal to the Palestinians.

Nice that Bennett met with Star Trek crews to inform them of his decision.

I think Nichols and Takei are right- Bennett is going to get mauled at Fox. He is better off elsewhere.

Good call Nichols- Justman is a better man to run Star Trek ITTL than Roddenberry esp Starfleet Intelligence.

Did The Goonies flop cos of Richard Donner or just being more meh than OTL?

Perhaps this flop pushes Spielberg to consider doing a Star Wars movie?

Rambo II: First Blood- still crap, still made shed loads of cash ITTL as well? *sigh*

Glad Cocoon and Back to the Future got made. Any changes from OTL?

Good set of chapters there @dsp19 - looking forward to more.

 

[farmerted555]

Rambo II: First Blood- still crap, still made shed loads of cash ITTL as well? *sigh*

HEY! Rambo 2 wasn't exactly a cinematic masterpiece, but it was NOT crap! Unless you're talking about the "Hind" helicopter (which was an SA330 Puma mocked up to look like a Hind Alpha, one of the same ones used in Red Dawn). Then again, back then no one had access to an actual Hind Delta.

 

[dsp19]

Seems I am a few updates behind....

The Social Security Act of 1985 - good plan, but trying social security funds to the stock market might go badly wrong without reforms. Did Reagan pass all his deregulation bills that (I am told) paved the way to the 2008 crash? Is Investments/Savings/Mortage market as complex and messed up as OTL has become?

The Medicare Expansion Act of 1985 - "covers all adults who are not covered by employer healthcare plans" - how is this paid for? Is this a 'contribution' from wages like the Nation Insurance payments the UK uses for the NHS or something else? Who pays for unemployed workers? Can Hospitals choose not to treat Medicare users?

Medical Pricing Control Act of 1985- well the price cap in this gets scrapped or pushed through the roof next time the Republicans can get away with it. Does the Act have provision for rising drug prices cos the Pharma cartels can just jack up prices and claim they need the cap raised...

Infrastructure Revitalization Act of 1985 - needed, but this one might be harder sell unless its spun as providing jobs.

Decent record so far Prez Glen.

Still waiting for the Moon Base though.

Charles Bluhdorn - giant of the entertainment industry. At least he got to see Godfather III made.

I cannot see this timeline's Gulf+Western selling off its non-entertainment manufacturing assets during the 80's

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_and_Western_Industries

Strongly suspect that due to changed circumstances the company hold onto its assets and seek to expand and consolidate, for example bringing Sega, Simon and Schuster, Disney, and Paramount closer together to produce games for their IP. Maybe even doing something with alt energy since they made an electric car in 1980 OTL.

Humph a show not being in the Top 10 of the Nielsen ratings does not mean its a failure. Outside the Top 20 maybe. Starfleet Intelligence is a strong show. Wish we could could see it OTL.

Strong list of films in the 57th Academy Awards.

Who plays Ross Barkuss in Starfleet Intelligence, please?

The Federation-Tzenkethi war over a cancelled arms deal seems a bit of a weak excuse for a war. Wonder if there was someone else behind the Tzenkethi?

Seems the Andorians never id get their revenge though.

Never make a promise like that Roth...

"Infrastructure Revitalization Act of 1985 allocates $350 billion...." well that's a big chunk of change there. High speed rail in the BosWash corridor will help the Megalopolis a lot. Hope there are some competent people in charge at the various departments spending that lot. Cross country rail could also do with a boost I figure. Plus those again nuclear plants probably need help.

Thinking of technology and infrastructure, it might be interesting if the French Telecom Minitel system was shared across the EEC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel - a Community wide network is easily possible, it went international, it just needed more of an EC level push. A similar system in the US would be entirely possible. Perhaps Pres Mitterrand can show it to him when he visits?

Americans with Disabilities Act of 1985 - wonder how they defined 'disabilities'?

Genocide on Beta Polaris is def going to feature in a lot of Trek 'best ever' episode lists.

57th Academy Awards - heh sorry Bill. Perhaps Leonard will let you hold his Oscar?

Heck of a sweep for The Godfather, Part III - given its a better movie ITTL I guess it deserves it.

Karlax is getting a lot of SI shows, Perlman is proving his acting chops here. Is he getting offers outside of SI?

Given SI is such as success could Beauty and the Beast be produced by and aired on Paramount?

At the moment I cannot see anyone beating Glenn in 1988.

If he gets better scripts and a better companion I could see Colin Baker staying on Doctor Who longer. With US cash coming in the BBC are going to go and try and kill it like OTL. Paramount is too strong a link to the US market, so decent scripts, better sets, no stupid coat, and no Bonnie Langford would be the order of the day imho. Colin would probably enjoy filming episodes in America. I could see a series of stories set across America and the Commonwealth aiming to boost sales across all markets. Baker could easily go to 1991 to match Tom Baker. Perhaps McCoy takes over then?

As long as the US connection lasts there is no shutdown and no McGann movie.

"Star Wars/20th Century Fox will definitely launch an animated series as early as 1986" - I can see this. I can also see Lucas folding to studio pressure with such a successful Trek franchise and allowing a Star Wars TV show, though he won't direct, or maybe even produce. Fox will def want to utilise its biggest IP's it can.

I know you want Rodenberry back in charge of Trek, but Harve Bennett going to head a whole TV studio considering the Empire he has carved out at Gulf+Western/Paramount? Esp with Murdoch micromanaging. As an alt suggestion, have Roddenberry find a way to unseat Bennett somehow, and take back over, then Bennett goes to Lucasfilm and produces a Star Wars TV/film revival show? Such a backstab would fit Roddenberry's mo imho.

Family Farms Act of 1985 - seems like a very good piece of law. However I cannot see much preventing the loss of American rural life. I was told by @Prometheus_2300 that American rural life has been dying for many, many years and even and Act that "prohibits agribusinesses from acquiring more than 25 percent of land in any county in the United States" isn't going to stop it, but I can see it slowing down the drain.

"an urban renewal bill" - I can see a lot of racism getting tied up into his one. Perhaps this one will be the one that fails?

""Latin America is full of tinpot, right-wing dictators propped up by the United States," Gromyko said." - he is not wrong either. Fear of these governments falling to 'communists' left a lot of people suffering under some terrible people and crippling so many places development. The US needed to learn to give a little on socialism = communism.

"Both sides want to see a settlement between Israel and her Arab neighbours." - you are not alone there!

William Shatner, that was first class, 10/10 whinging there.

Has Shatner got another job since Galactica?

Poor Tor! At least Karlax revenged him.

A big fight to protect Chancellor K'Pac is a great TV moment, nice and action filled with high stakes. Karlax nearly making the top tier of Klingon society is impressive given he is not a noble. Great series finale!

I am honestly surprised Thatcher stayed in power after that crisis. Glenn did her no favours, but he is also right here. Also a change of PM would have still left the Tories in power- likely Michael Heseltine would have won a 1985 leadership contest- I can see the Westland Affair butterflied away if Thatcher's blood is in the water. Even with the Britton Report I could see a vote of no confidence inside the Tory MP's and a trigger for a leadership contest similar to 1995. Thatcher would go into it determined to cement her hold and 'shut up' her critics. I suspect she would not win.

Geneva Bilateral Treaty of 1985 - good work on both sides there esp in the Israeli-Arab conflict. Including the PLO, despite their rep will help 'sell' the deal to the Palestinians.

Nice that Bennett met with Star Trek crews to inform them of his decision.

I think Nichols and Takei are right- Bennett is going to get mauled at Fox. He is better off elsewhere.

Good call Nichols- Justman is a better man to run Star Trek ITTL than Roddenberry esp Starfleet Intelligence.

Did The Goonies flop cos of Richard Donner or just being more meh than OTL?

Perhaps this flop pushes Spielberg to consider doing a Star Wars movie?

Rambo II: First Blood- still crap, still made shed loads of cash ITTL as well? *sigh*

Glad Cocoon and Back to the Future got made. Any changes from OTL?

Good set of chapters there @dsp19 - looking forward to more.

--ITTL, the Social Security Act of 1985 creates what we'd call a Roth IRA for every American worker. It's an expansion of regular Social Security, which is unaffected. It's also an opt-in program for workers, so they don't have to pay into the program. But there are a lot of savers out there, so it's a really good piece of policy for them.

--The Medicare Expansion Act of 1985 is paid for through Medicare taxes and gas taxes. This will potentially be a sticking point for Glenn if gas prices rise too much, and could hurt him in 1986.

--The Medical Price Control Act of 1985 is tied to inflation (the Consumer Price Index).

--The Infrastructure Revitalization Act of 1985 creates millions of new American jobs. It's a $900 billion dollar bill in 2022 dollars.

--Disabilities Act of 1985 is essentially the same as the American Disabilities Act of 1990 IRL.

--I still think Gulf+Western sells off its land but they could hold onto their non-entertainment properties for longer. They'll hold onto SEGA ITTL.

--Genocide on Beta Polaris is likely getting an Emmy both for the writing component and the series for Best Drama, and perhaps a director nomination

--Shatner does have a point. He's Captain Kirk (Admiral Kirk in the movies) but all the rest of the crew is being honored for their work. He was TJ Hooker IRL from 1982 to 1986, but it's possible for Shatner to get a big non-Trek movie role as well ITTL. I just have to figure out what he'd be good at dramatically that could get him a nomination that isn't Trek related in the 1980s (not Boston Legal, he's basically playing himself as Denny Crane in that show).

--Perlman should get some nice roles after Starfleet Intelligence and Beauty and the Beast (which will be produced on Paramount). Question is does he make the breakthrough to become an A-lister, when he's short of that IRL.

--Gulf+Western could try to make an electric car but they'd probably have to subcontract some of the process to one of the big automakers

--Ross Barkuss is played by Corbin Bernsen ITTL. Bernsen appeared on an episode of TNG as a Q...

--The urban renewal bill is going to be the Obamacare of the Glenn administration ITTL...

--Godfather III was an epic movie ITTL, just like the first two. One of the best movies never made, or made differently than OTL

--I need some suggestions for an American companion to the Doctor, as this is not a Doctor Who timeline. I think Baker plays the Doctor until 1988, then Sylvester McCoy has a run until 1991. Then we have to get a new Doctor (David Warner?)

--Thatcher might face a no-confidence vote if Heseltine decides he wants to be PM...but then there will be demands for a snap election, and Labour is leading the Tories, so that's going to give Heseltine pause...

--The Geneva Bilateral Treaty of 1985 will shape foreign policy for the rest of the 1980s. It's basically the roadmap for the Middle East (Afghanistan, Iran-Iraq War ending with weapons sales cut off, an Israeli-Arab peace process). Gromyko might be right about the Latin American dictators but there's not really much the Soviets can do about it with American acceptance of Afghanistan as a pro-Soviet state. The Soviets have to give ground somewhere else to make it work. Some of the provisions of the Geneva Bilateral Treaty are going to be detested in Republican circles...

--Bennett was always close with the original series cast IRL. Treated them very well. It would make sense for him to keep them in the loop. He recommended Nimoy as a director and IRL allowed Shatner to direct (but that didn't work out).

--Bennett is a big boy, he can handle the heat at FOX. The question is, his beliefs clashing with Murdoch's. Bennett wasn't a sleaze merchant, he was an upstanding gentleman IRL.

--Nichols trying to get Justman back is a Hail Mary pass (basically something with very little chance of success). Justman doesn't have a lot of fans at Paramount. IRL after he left TOS, he didn't work for Paramount again until TNG premiered in 1987...

--The Goonies ITTL came out at the same time as Rambo II, so it bombed...

--George Lucas probably won't let Spielberg touch his IP just yet...but he is allowing an animated TV series. Fox is falling behind Paramount though, and they're desperate to get another few Star Wars movies produced earlier than OTL. Lucas didn't want to do them between 1983 and 1997 for a variety of reasons (burnout, SFX not being up to standard, fear of a box office bomb ruining the franchise, and so forth).

--No significant changes to Cocoon or Back to the Future ITTL

 

[dsp19]

HEY! Rambo 2 wasn't exactly a cinematic masterpiece, but it was NOT crap! Unless you're talking about the "Hind" helicopter (which was an SA330 Puma mocked up to look like a Hind Alpha, one of the same ones used in Red Dawn). Then again, back then no one had access to an actual Hind Delta.

Rambo isn't my cup of tea either but I thought at least the first two Rambos were OK. They went downhill after that

 

[Ogrebear]

HEY! Rambo 2 wasn't exactly a cinematic masterpiece, but it was NOT crap! Unless you're talking about the "Hind" helicopter (which was an SA330 Puma mocked up to look like a Hind Alpha, one of the same ones used in Red Dawn). Then again, back then no one had access to an actual Hind Delta.

Each to their own, I thought it was rubbish back in the 80's.

 

[Ogrebear]

The Infrastructure Revitalization Act of 1985 - any provision for alt energy beyond hydro?

Since its too late for Shatner in TJ Hooker, perhaps another drama role can come up for him that allows him to stretch his acting. Maybe something in Hill Street Blues or North and South?

Electric cars in 1985 are noodling about, but there is potential in the tech even then, esp if batteries are designed to be swapped out at a service station kinda like filling a tank.

I am not a Doctor Who expert either, the changed circumstances of this timeline will see massive changes for that show. Paging @nezza @Guajolote @DValdron who are all Doctor Who timeline authors on this site, perhaps they could comment on the 90's future of a Doctor Who getting American money in.

Heseltine could easily take the PM-ship from Thatcher at this point and she is vulnerable. Labour may call for an election but Heseltine does not need to give it to them. He would want to build his own powerbase and separate himself from Mrs T. before going to the country. His own rep is better than hers so I do not see a total wipe as you might suspect, esp as Kinnock was only so-so popular at this point.

It's not a question of Bennett being able to handle the workload, its more does he want to work for a micromanaging sleezeball like Murdoch? He will never be able to work independently of that man. Given Murdoch's background and his papers he is likely to want Fox to be more 'populist' from the outset- would Bennett want to work in a 'tabloid' environment?

Justman could be seen as a safer pair of hands than the over spending, weird ideas, criticism in public, Roddenberry. If Bennett promotes Justman then he could be brought in to handle Starfleet Intelligence, and later take over TNG.

How much rights does Lucas have over Star Wars considering the studio paid for everything? Can Fox simply overwrite him? Would Lucas miss out on the money opportunities given sci-fi is much bigger ITTL? In this timeline with so much different Lucas hanging on as he did OTL makes little sense to me.

Who is Marty McFly in ITTL's Back to the Future?

 

[dsp19]

The Infrastructure Revitalization Act of 1985 - any provision for alt energy beyond hydro?

Since its too late for Shatner in TJ Hooker, perhaps another drama role can come up for him that allows him to stretch his acting. Maybe something in Hill Street Blues or North and South?

Electric cars in 1985 are noodling about, but there is potential in the tech even then, esp if batteries are designed to be swapped out at a service station kinda like filling a tank.

I am not a Doctor Who expert either, the changed circumstances of this timeline will see massive changes for that show. Paging @nezza @Guajolote @DValdron who are all Doctor Who timeline authors on this site, perhaps they could comment on the 90's future of a Doctor Who getting American money in.

Heseltine could easily take the PM-ship from Thatcher at this point and she is vulnerable. Labour may call for an election but Heseltine does not need to give it to them. He would want to build his own powerbase and separate himself from Mrs T. before going to the country. His own rep is better than hers so I do not see a total wipe as you might suspect, esp as Kinnock was only so-so popular at this point.

It's not a question of Bennett being able to handle the workload, its more does he want to work for a micromanaging sleezeball like Murdoch? He will never be able to work independently of that man. Given Murdoch's background and his papers he is likely to want Fox to be more 'populist' from the outset- would Bennett want to work in a 'tabloid' environment?

Justman could be seen as a safer pair of hands than the over spending, weird ideas, criticism in public, Roddenberry. If Bennett promotes Justman then he could be brought in to handle Starfleet Intelligence, and later take over TNG.

How much rights does Lucas have over Star Wars considering the studio paid for everything? Can Fox simply overwrite him? Would Lucas miss out on the money opportunities given sci-fi is much bigger ITTL? In this timeline with so much different Lucas hanging on as he did OTL makes little sense to me.

Who is Marty McFly in ITTL's Back to the Future?

Infrastructure Act of 1985 also has wind power and the seed money for solar in it...

Shatner would be really good in something like Platoon, but that's only if he wants to work with Oliver Stone, IMO...North and South is also a pretty good landing spot for him if he wants to do TV and get an Emmy

Electric automobiles could happen in the 80s if there is another major oil shock. I think the 1980 G+W electric car was produced in response to that IRL...If there's no major oil shock then they'll develop more slowly.

Heseltine as PM would make me write a lot of alt-history British policy stories! I've got enough work on my plate as it is.

Bennett installing Justman is probably the recommendation Nichols is going to make ITTL so she can get Starfleet Intelligence through the rest of the 80s. Not sure it's going to work though. We could have a situation where SI is cancelled, and then renewed for a year, say 1988-1989 under Justman, if Berman or Gerrold take over TNG

Lucas owns the IP for Star Wars at this point, so he's got to give the green light...

Michael J. Fox is still Marty McFly just like OTL. There can be nobody else in that role

I'd love to hear @nezza and @DValdron and @Guajolote on Doctor Who, especially plausible Doctors in the 1990s. Doctor Who is taking no hiatus ITTL, so we're going straight through the 1990s all the way to 2005, when Ecclestone and Tennant become Doctors. We could need three or four actors playing the Doctor between 1991 and 2005. There's significant potential for spinoff Doctor Who TL's from this TL with the actors selected to fill those roles. The only thing I'm going to probably do is pick the Doctors and the companions with help from my readers and go from there

 

[Guajolote]

Is the American money just pure investment or do the money people want a say in how Doctor Who is run? Even with increased prestige, Doctor Who can be a bit of a grind, so there's a good chance some obvious names will still be too big for a show like that. I'd say scour the cast lists of British sitcoms of the late-80s for some plausible names.

 

[dsp19]

Is the American money just pure investment or do the money people want a say in how Doctor Who is run? Even with increased prestige, Doctor Who can be a bit of a grind, so there's a good chance some obvious names will still be too big for a show like that. I'd say scour the cast lists of British sitcoms of the late-80s for some plausible names.

They’d probably want at least a recurring American character as a special guest star for some of the episodes (Felix Leiter in the Bond films as an example)

 

[nezza]

The Infrastructure Revitalization Act of 1985 - any provision for alt energy beyond hydro?

Since its too late for Shatner in TJ Hooker, perhaps another drama role can come up for him that allows him to stretch his acting. Maybe something in Hill Street Blues or North and South?

Electric cars in 1985 are noodling about, but there is potential in the tech even then, esp if batteries are designed to be swapped out at a service station kinda like filling a tank.

I am not a Doctor Who expert either, the changed circumstances of this timeline will see massive changes for that show. Paging @nezza @Guajolote @DValdron who are all Doctor Who timeline authors on this site, perhaps they could comment on the 90's future of a Doctor Who getting American money in.

Heseltine could easily take the PM-ship from Thatcher at this point and she is vulnerable. Labour may call for an election but Heseltine does not need to give it to them. He would want to build his own powerbase and separate himself from Mrs T. before going to the country. His own rep is better than hers so I do not see a total wipe as you might suspect, esp as Kinnock was only so-so popular at this point.

It's not a question of Bennett being able to handle the workload, its more does he want to work for a micromanaging sleezeball like Murdoch? He will never be able to work independently of that man. Given Murdoch's background and his papers he is likely to want Fox to be more 'populist' from the outset- would Bennett want to work in a 'tabloid' environment?

Justman could be seen as a safer pair of hands than the over spending, weird ideas, criticism in public, Roddenberry. If Bennett promotes Justman then he could be brought in to handle Starfleet Intelligence, and later take over TNG.

How much rights does Lucas have over Star Wars considering the studio paid for everything? Can Fox simply overwrite him? Would Lucas miss out on the money opportunities given sci-fi is much bigger ITTL? In this timeline with so much different Lucas hanging on as he did OTL makes little sense to me.

Who is Marty McFly in ITTL's Back to the Future?

Hmm. If Amblin and the BBC had been less skittish with each other then I could see McCoy returning in say 1990, having one series shot partially in the UK and US, saying bye to Ace and regenerating at the end to be replaced by an actor familiar to audiences on both sides of the Atlantic. My choice would be Michael Crawford.

 

[Guajolote]

Michael Crawford was Philip Segal's first choice for the TVM, but it'd have to be a big production to break him away from his stage career. For a British character actor of a type and inclination, assuming Doctor Who is a medium-level BBC production, I'm thinking maybe Peter Egan, most famous for playing the ever-winning Paul in Ever Decreasing Circles.

For the American character, if it doesn't need to be a young companion, there's a cache of UK based American and Canadian actors like Kerry Shale, Mac McDonald, Lorelei King and a bunch of other people I became aware of through Dirk Maggs BBC Radio adaptations of DC Comics stories.

 

[wietze]

Michael Crawford was Philip Segal's first choice for the TVM, but it'd have to be a big production to break him away from his stage career. For a British character actor of a type and inclination, assuming Doctor Who is a medium-level BBC production, I'm thinking maybe Peter Egan, most famous for playing the ever-winning Paul in Ever Decreasing Circles.

For the American character, if it doesn't need to be a young companion, there's a cache of UK based American and Canadian actors like Kerry Shale, Mac McDonald, Lorelei King and a bunch of other people I became aware of through Dirk Maggs BBC Radio adaptations of DC Comics stories.

i suggest bob & doug McKenzie as Canadian doc who companions

edit: considering doc who did quite a few comic relief special episodes, that would make quite a good one. (and we'll get to see how a gallifreyan reacts to beer lol)

 

[Guajolote]

The Hoser of Fang Rock

 

[nezza]

Michael Crawford was Philip Segal's first choice for the TVM, but it'd have to be a big production to break him away from his stage career. For a British character actor of a type and inclination, assuming Doctor Who is a medium-level BBC production, I'm thinking maybe Peter Egan, most famous for playing the ever-winning Paul in Ever Decreasing Circles.

For the American character, if it doesn't need to be a young companion, there's a cache of UK based American and Canadian actors like Kerry Shale, Mac McDonald, Lorelei King and a bunch of other people I became aware of through Dirk Maggs BBC Radio adaptations of DC Comics stories.

Egan is a good actor but I'm guessing that the yanks would want a known English actor as 8. Crawford could play the Doc in several TVM's over 2 years and regenerate into an American actor. My money would be on Brent Spiner as 9.

 

[Guajolote]

It depends how routine this version of Doctor Who is. Has it just rolled from S26 to S27 and beyond with no change in format? Is multi-camera VT with the American money just upgrading the special effects? Or has it switched to film and is being treated as something a little more prestigious?

 

[dsp19]

Egan is a good actor but I'm guessing that the yanks would want a known English actor as 8. Crawford could play the Doc in several TVM's over 2 years and regenerate into an American actor. My money would be on Brent Spiner as 9.

Spiner isn't going to be available until after 1994 due to TNG, plus he'll be making TNG movies. So hard to see him as the Doctor, but he'd be an intriguing choice (if he were available ITTL)

 

[nezza]

Spiner isn't going to be available until after 1994 due to TNG, plus he'll be making TNG movies. So hard to see him as the Doctor, but he'd be an intriguing choice (if he were available ITTL)

I realised that afterwards. Obviously that rules out Patrick Stewart as well. If we're looking at comedy actors then the first ones that spring to mind are the Pythons (but not John Cleese).