SsgtC
Banned
Close enough. I don't really have an issue with it. Overall, I think it looks great. Very well done
White Star and Titanic, What Could have Been
- Thread starter SsgtC
- Start date
-
- Tags
- titanic white star line
- Status
Close enough. I don't really have an issue with it. Overall, I think it looks great. Very well done
Md139115
Banned
As for the stern, I tried to copy the sheer at the bow for symmetry reasons, but I admit I may have gone overboard with it.
As for the promenade... that was not in my first draft of the drawing. In fact, I initially copied Deck C on the Titanic for that deck, with the potholes ending in a few square windows and a door. Then, while looking at a picture of SS United States to try and get an idea of what lifeboats of the time looked like, I noticed that the SS US had a few tiny open promenades of her own. It was a good enough excuse for me.
PS: And thank you
I think the bridge would be more conventional looking, with the exposed bridge wings, and the windows would be as big, as it makes the ship look smaller than it is. (Sounds weird, but trust me!) The bridge doesn't really look proportional to the rest of the ship
Also, I think the aft superstructure should be stepped down gradually, rather than the sheer drop, and I don't think the forward superstructure would have as much of a shh er, or extend as far out. It looks a bit "QM2" forward, which is 40 off.
Maybe make the deck houses a little taller?
Otherwise, fantastic job
Last edited:
What's going on with the Japanese in this timeline? Did the Anglo-Japanese alliance stick around? There should be something about the British-built Kongo, at least.
SsgtC
Banned
No, the Anglo-Japanese alliance was dissolved as OTL. They still had their ambitions in the Pacific, but were largely checked. One of the main reasons being that they couldn't rationalize taking European colonies by saying they were distracted by a major war back home. With the US taking defensive responsibility for them (in exchange for hugely preferable trade rights and technology transfers) they had a defensive power that wasn't there IOTL. Particularly in Burma/Singapore. Eisenhower was scathing of Alexander and made tremendous improvements to the defenses. Same with the DEI. And without being involved in the War in Europe, the US deployed almost all it's combat power to the Pacific. Even the Japanese hardliners realized they couldn't win and took a SIGHTLY more conciliatory tone. Just enough to barely avoid a full embargo. There was some minor skirmishing, but no major battles and the IJA was able to successfully claim "fog of war" instead of being called out of the fact that the probes were deliberate. The hardliners were eventually thrown out in Japan around 1950. Though Japan is still heavily militarized.
SsgtC
Banned
Sorry, I've been working really long hours. I will try to get something up by the weekend
XIII
SsgtC
Banned
As 1962 drew to a close, competition on the North Atlantic was fiercer than ever. With British, French, German, Italian and American super liners all vying for the top spot. The SS United States and her sister, the SS America, were the undisputed speed queens, averaging over thirty-eight knots on their crossings. The RMS Titanic (and her soon to be completed sister, the RMS Olympic) were the most luxurious liners in the world, with their Tourist Class cabins equal to, or better than most lines' First Class. The German SS Kaiser Wilhelm and her near sister, the MV Bismarck, had interiors very much resembling a Bavarian Inn or Prussian Castle, depending on class. While the Italian SS Rex and SS Andrea Doria were the epitome of Art Deco. And finally, the French MV Paris and her sister, the MV Ile' de France had somewhat eclectic interiors, with her public spaces being Art Deco, her First Class suites resembling the interiors of Versailles and her Cabin Class an homage to the French countryside.
When it came to food, it was nearly impossible to determine who was best. The American ships tended toward heavier fare, with steaks, chops and roasts predominant in First Class, with "typical" American "comfort food" such as meatloaf, casseroles and fried foods in Tourist. The British ships tended to have the widest selection of dishes to chose from. With tradional English and Irish foods available in both classes to the finest French and Italian cuisine in First Class. They also offered some of the finest cuts of meat in the Aquitania Grill, with steak, pork, lamb and mutton available. The French ships, of course, offered the best French cuisine at sea, regardless of class. With some considering even the Cabin Class dinning room aboard the Ile' de France the equal of the best restaurants in Paris. For the Italians, their ships offered some of the worlds best gourmet Italian cooking to be found outside of Naples and Rome. They also offered Mediterranean cuisine for a slight upcharge in their ships' Sicilian Grill. And finally, the Germans. Their fare varied wildly based upon your class of travel. In Tourist, it was simple, yet filling, German country fare. In First Class, only the finest was offered.
This was the backdrop against which White Star competed. That they had managed to come out on top against such competition spoke volumes. With Titanic and Majestic offering weekly sailings between New York and Southampton White Star was in an enviable position. Though with the introduction of new liners by their competitors and their own Titanic and Britannic classes entering service, the old Majestic was on a steady decline. Designed for a different age, she just couldn't compete effectively against the new generation. Constant refits and updates had kept her competitive, but it had become increasingly obvious that she was thoroughly outclassed by her younger fleetmates. By the end of 1962, she was sailing half empty, as passengers either booked on Titanic, or detoured slightly to sail on Britannic or one of her sisters to NY, Boston or Baltimore via either Southampton or Liverpool. And in some cases choosing instead to book on rival lines. May, 1963 could not arrive soon enough for them.
In any event, May did eventually arrive. And with it, the maiden voyage of RMS Olympic. On May 8th, 1963 Olympic cast off from White Star Dock in Southampton and made her way to the open ocean. Not a single berth was empty. As Olympic sailed past the anchorage, she dipped her burgee to the old Majestic, lying at anchor awaiting her fate after twenty-six years of faithful service. Like Laurentic before her, she would soon depart for Belfast and reserve as an emergency backup vessel. Upon her arrival in Belfast, Laurentic was steamed up one last time and sailed for the breakers yard at Inverkeithing, Scotland.
On the other side of the Atlantic, the mood was far more jubilant as Olympic entered New York Harbor after a successful voyage. The one discrepancy to other maiden voyages was the distinct lack of a water cannon salute by New York City fireboats as they were fully involved in combatting a fire on the waterfront further up the Hudson River. Overall, however, her maiden voyage was a huge success.
Running in Tandem with Titanic, the two White Star liners dominated the Trans-Atlantic trade. While each of the major lines had their aficionados who sailed them no matter what, the vast majority of their customers decided who to sail with based on price and schedule. It was here that White Star won the Battle of the Atlantic. By virtue of the fact that White Star operated such a large fleet, they offered more sailings crossing the Atlantic than any other line. Their ships, by virtue of being all diesel-electric were cheaper to operate and maintain than traditional steamers. White Star was also investing heavily in automation in an effort to reduce crew size on board. Thus lowering operating costs even further. These efforts were primarily focused on the bridge, engineering and cargo handling as it was felt that reducing passenger focused crew would be detrimental to their famous level of Service.
1965 would see a development that would alarm White Star executives: the first commercially viable jet powered aircraft capable of crossing the Atlantic. The new Boeing 707 was a remarkable plane. With the newly designed swept back wing, four jet engines buried in the wing root providing exceptional aerodynamic efficiency, the range to fly from New York or Chicago to London unrefueled and a passenger capacity of nearly 200 people. For the first time since White Star was established, the management saw a threat they weren't sure they could beat. This prompted a massive review of White Star's operations and plans. The review would take just over a year and have long term repercussions for White Star.
When it came to food, it was nearly impossible to determine who was best. The American ships tended toward heavier fare, with steaks, chops and roasts predominant in First Class, with "typical" American "comfort food" such as meatloaf, casseroles and fried foods in Tourist. The British ships tended to have the widest selection of dishes to chose from. With tradional English and Irish foods available in both classes to the finest French and Italian cuisine in First Class. They also offered some of the finest cuts of meat in the Aquitania Grill, with steak, pork, lamb and mutton available. The French ships, of course, offered the best French cuisine at sea, regardless of class. With some considering even the Cabin Class dinning room aboard the Ile' de France the equal of the best restaurants in Paris. For the Italians, their ships offered some of the worlds best gourmet Italian cooking to be found outside of Naples and Rome. They also offered Mediterranean cuisine for a slight upcharge in their ships' Sicilian Grill. And finally, the Germans. Their fare varied wildly based upon your class of travel. In Tourist, it was simple, yet filling, German country fare. In First Class, only the finest was offered.
This was the backdrop against which White Star competed. That they had managed to come out on top against such competition spoke volumes. With Titanic and Majestic offering weekly sailings between New York and Southampton White Star was in an enviable position. Though with the introduction of new liners by their competitors and their own Titanic and Britannic classes entering service, the old Majestic was on a steady decline. Designed for a different age, she just couldn't compete effectively against the new generation. Constant refits and updates had kept her competitive, but it had become increasingly obvious that she was thoroughly outclassed by her younger fleetmates. By the end of 1962, she was sailing half empty, as passengers either booked on Titanic, or detoured slightly to sail on Britannic or one of her sisters to NY, Boston or Baltimore via either Southampton or Liverpool. And in some cases choosing instead to book on rival lines. May, 1963 could not arrive soon enough for them.
In any event, May did eventually arrive. And with it, the maiden voyage of RMS Olympic. On May 8th, 1963 Olympic cast off from White Star Dock in Southampton and made her way to the open ocean. Not a single berth was empty. As Olympic sailed past the anchorage, she dipped her burgee to the old Majestic, lying at anchor awaiting her fate after twenty-six years of faithful service. Like Laurentic before her, she would soon depart for Belfast and reserve as an emergency backup vessel. Upon her arrival in Belfast, Laurentic was steamed up one last time and sailed for the breakers yard at Inverkeithing, Scotland.
On the other side of the Atlantic, the mood was far more jubilant as Olympic entered New York Harbor after a successful voyage. The one discrepancy to other maiden voyages was the distinct lack of a water cannon salute by New York City fireboats as they were fully involved in combatting a fire on the waterfront further up the Hudson River. Overall, however, her maiden voyage was a huge success.
Running in Tandem with Titanic, the two White Star liners dominated the Trans-Atlantic trade. While each of the major lines had their aficionados who sailed them no matter what, the vast majority of their customers decided who to sail with based on price and schedule. It was here that White Star won the Battle of the Atlantic. By virtue of the fact that White Star operated such a large fleet, they offered more sailings crossing the Atlantic than any other line. Their ships, by virtue of being all diesel-electric were cheaper to operate and maintain than traditional steamers. White Star was also investing heavily in automation in an effort to reduce crew size on board. Thus lowering operating costs even further. These efforts were primarily focused on the bridge, engineering and cargo handling as it was felt that reducing passenger focused crew would be detrimental to their famous level of Service.
1965 would see a development that would alarm White Star executives: the first commercially viable jet powered aircraft capable of crossing the Atlantic. The new Boeing 707 was a remarkable plane. With the newly designed swept back wing, four jet engines buried in the wing root providing exceptional aerodynamic efficiency, the range to fly from New York or Chicago to London unrefueled and a passenger capacity of nearly 200 people. For the first time since White Star was established, the management saw a threat they weren't sure they could beat. This prompted a massive review of White Star's operations and plans. The review would take just over a year and have long term repercussions for White Star.
Archibald
Banned
You should use Lightoller. IOTL he used his yacht to help at Dunkirk.
This is a nice TL. I like the way your butterflies flaps. Three influential survivors from the Titanic provides a little help to Teddy Roosevelt, leading to a different WWI, and the Russian revolution is pushed back to 1935, and this impact WWII... that is brilliant, really. I like it.
I still maintain that the older sailor in the Nolan film was inspired by Lightoller, if not a fictionalized version.
As for the "Titanic survives to the present day" TL, I have another project related to the old girl that needs finishing first (points to sig).
Last edited:
Archibald
Banned
I still maintain that, too. Glad to see I'm not the only one to think Nolan drew inspiration from Lightoller.
IMDB back our theory, by the way.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5013056/trivia
Last edited:
We have a man who's the right age taking his own yacht named in part after an astronomical object after losing a son in the RAF in the opening weeks of the war. It's hard pressing to not say he wasn't thinking of Charles there.
My suggestion to the Board would be to invest in the new Airliners- indeed set up a British Airline which 'flys in style' with as luxerious airliners as possible, and top line 'White Star' service. Like Brunel's old Great Western Lines, Have offers for train, plane, and ship service- 'fly out for your meeting/shopping, travel back in style'.
I would be interested how a surviving shipping industry/late aircraft development has effected the UK and its place in the world. The Jet engine was a British invention, where are the Comets? Who is in charge?
Also what's going on with Helicopter devolpment? Rockets? etc please...
I would be interested how a surviving shipping industry/late aircraft development has effected the UK and its place in the world. The Jet engine was a British invention, where are the Comets? Who is in charge?
Also what's going on with Helicopter devolpment? Rockets? etc please...
Yes, I can see the airliners being considered a sort of secondary mode of transport, or at least advertised as that, with the liners being considered the stylish way to go.
SsgtC
Banned
Yes it has. Jet engine have actually been in use for some time. But strictly in a military role. They weren't considered reliable enough for commercial use. That has now changed.
Fair enough.
But yes, I see White Star setting up white Star airlines and having everything running in tandem.
I feel that of they advertise the Liners correctly, they can keep going just fine.
If I had the money, I'd much rather a trip on a luxurious ocean liner than a cramped Jet.
- Status