White Star and Titanic, What Could have Been

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Md139115

Banned
Watching the dogfights episode of Hood sinking hits me hard.

Well I can see why.

I always thought (having seen this before) that it was cheesy and not at all realistic of them to have the Union Jack flying like that in the ship’s sinking... but to be a Briton watching that...

I can imagine...
 

Md139115

Banned
As an addendum, I remember seeing once an old video of the salvaged USS Maine being scuttled offshore to the salutes of two battleships and the playing of the ‘Star-Spangled Banner’ but I’ll be darned if I can find it.

Anyone have any idea where I can find it? That is tear-jerking material there...
 

SsgtC

Banned
As an addendum, I remember seeing once an old video of the salvaged USS Maine being scuttled offshore to the salutes of two battleships and the playing of the ‘Star-Spangled Banner’ but I’ll be darned if I can find it.

Anyone have any idea where I can find it? That is tear-jerking material there...
I don't know where to find it, but I do remember it as well. Really hits home. Same for the scuttling of the Oriskany.
 
Yes, but they're smaller carriers. Nothing bigger than OTL Essex-class. There are plans on the drawing board for something approaching Midway size, but not launched yet.

So, if a Midway sized carrier is only on the drawing board by the 1960s, with luck they may begin to think about something the size of a Nimitz in the 1990s?
 

SsgtC

Banned
So, if a Midway sized carrier is only on the drawing board by the 1960s, with luck they may begin to think about something the size of a Nimitz in the 1990s?
Probably something closer to Forrestal or Kitty Hawk size. Naval Aviation is really lagging behind here as they never really had their moment to shine ITTL. They've also lost out on the lessons learned that one big carrier is general better than two smaller ones.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Let's hope that the RN manages to avoid the Invincible class and has something worth of the name carrier...
They do at the moment, and with a new carrier class on the way, they'll be able to comfortably operate fixed wing "cats and traps" aircraft into the 90s at least. IF they built something like the Invincibles, it would be primarily an anti-submarine carrier/escort carrier.
 

SsgtC

Banned
What the Royal Navy Needs...

...And H.M. Treasury funds...

....Are two completely different species!
Very true! At the moment however, the Treasury is in much better shape than it was IOTL. Shorter war, no disasterous (for the British) Lend-Lease, and the Empire stayed in tact longer allowing for a more orderly break-up leading to improved relations and better economic conditions. The one thing that's hurting them are the trade concessions they made to the US during the war. They had to open a lot of markets to US Goods and give the US preferential pricing on a lot of their exports.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Re-reading this timeline- what caused the Greenland-Berengaria collision back in March 1923?
Fog. And way too high speed on the part of Greenland. The Board of Inquiry estimated that she was still at Full Ahead when she hit Berengaria. If her Captain hadn't gone down with the ship, he would have been charged with several crimes.

Edit: and for those wondering, I am working on a new update. My job has just been crazy lately and I don't get much time to write at the moment
 
Fog. And way too high speed on the part of Greenland. The Board of Inquiry estimated that she was still at Full Ahead when she hit Berengaria. If her Captain hadn't gone down with the ship, he would have been charged with several crimes.

Edit: and for those wondering, I am working on a new update. My job has just been crazy lately and I don't get much time to write at the moment

Does RMS Empress of Ireland still go down in TTL, or does this disaster take its place as the worst fog collision?

Hope work lighters up for you soon.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Does RMS Empress of Ireland still go down in TTL, or does this disaster take its place as the worst fog collision?

Hope work lighters up for you soon.
She still went down in 1914. Though Berengaria has superseded her as the death toll was over double. Plus, the fact that it took time for Berengaria to sink. People realized that more could have been saved if she was carrying more lifeboats

Edit: thanks! So do I!
 
XVII

SsgtC

Banned
On the morning of September 12th, RMS Adriatic sat gleaming at the White Star Dock, Southampton, England. Her freshly painted pale green hull, stark white superstructure with her black and buff funnel and gold sheer stripe was shinning in the watery autumn sunlight. The ship's name was picked out in gold on either side of her bow. And across her sharp cruiser stern, the words Adriatic Liverpool curved gracefully. From her masthead, the White Star burgee snapped briskly in the breeze, while from the stern, the Red Ensign did the same. To the crowds waiting to board, she looked to be a brand new ship, not one already nearly eight years old.

At 9AM sharp, Adriatic opened for the press and onlookers to tour. The first thing most noticed was how open and light the ship was. White Star, realizing that the ship would be spending the majority of her time in the bright and sunny Caribbean, had opened the ship up, replacing her smaller cabins and public rooms with much larger spaces. In addition, they had used a very bright and light color palate throughout the ship, contributing to the open feel of the ship. The interior decoration was designed in a very minimalist fashion to emphasize the large spaces. As passengers and well wishers alike moved about the ship, White Star announced that they would be holding a predeparture party for all those on the ship to welcome the Adriatic back into the fleet and to celebrate the inauguration of their new service.

That day, thousands boarded the ship. Among them, was Senator (and future President of the United States) John Jacob Astor VI. Who's father had sailed on Titanic's maiden voyage. He had been on Europe on holiday. Originally booked on Olympic to sail back to New York, he instead chose to extend his holiday by sailing on Adriatic's first cruise. Upon his return to Southampton, he would be sailing on the Titanic to New York.

At 4PM, Adriatic sounded her horn and her stewards began to usher the non-ticketed guests off the ship and back onto White Star Dock. By five, all non-ticketed guests had left the ship (or so it was thought, two young men had managed to stow away, were found two days out to sea and put ashore in Bermuda). By 5:30, the lines were cast off and RMS Adriatic began her maiden voyage as a cruise ship.

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Five days after Adriatic's celebratory departure, RMS Mauritania made her final arrival in Southampton. The last of Cunard's great liners was being retired after twenty-five years of service in both war and peace. On this, her final voyage, Mauritania had departed from New York booked to capacity. The first time in years she had sailed with not a single cabin or berth open. As each passenger disembarked in Southampton, they were given a small wooden box. Inside each box, was a small piece of teak taken from the aft deck of the ship with a brass plaque affixed to it that read, "RMS Mauritania final voyage, 17 September, 1966."

Two days later, on the 19th of the month, Mauritania was officially decommissioned from the fleet of White Star. As a measure of thanks for the long service of the ship and proud history of Cunard Line, her final Captain, John "Treasure" Jones was named Senior Captain and Commodore, Cunard Line. The final man to hold the rank of Commodore for Cunard. It was also announced that Captain Jones would be transferring to the RMS Olympic in one month to replace her captain, who was retiring.

As Captain Jones surveyed his ship one last time from the bridge, he saw Clair MacBeth waiting for him by the mast. She had lived on the ship for years. So long, in fact, that she was considered an unofficial part of the crew. And many of the crew said she knew the ship better than anyone else on board. Joining Ms MacBeth at the mast, Captain Jones and Clair gently lowered first the White Star Burgee followed by the Cunard House Flag. As the flag was folded, it was realized by all present that Cunard was truly no more. The last ship that had sailed for the famed line would be sailing for the breakers the next day. Within two years, Cunard would exist as nothing more than a memory and a few files in a warehouse.

______________________________________​

By March of 1967 the Adriatic had firmly established that the cruising market was a lucrative one. Out of all the ports she had sailed from, New York was the most successful followed by Southampton, Baltimore and Miami. White Star, though pleased with the overall success of the operation, was somewhat disappointed that Miami had shown so poorly in their results. It had been hoped that Miami would offer a convenient embarkation port as it was close to the Caribbean and required less fuel and days at sea than the other ports while still charging nearly the same amount. Unfortunately, the city itself and the transportation infrastructure was not as developed as the other ports. The decision was taken to concentrate their services in New York and Southampton with limited sailings from Baltimore.

Of course, not everything was smooth sailing. White Star discovered, to their consternation, that many of the ports they wished to call on in the Caribbean were too shallow to handle the 32' draft of the Adriatic. For the rest of the spring, White Star elected to limit their cruises to the ports that could handle the deep draft of the ship. During the summer, plans were drawn up to return Adriatic once more to Harland & Wolff where further modifications would be made to the ship. This would involve modifying her forward deck to accommodate two large tenders to ferry passengers to and from the ship to the shore. Additionally, two large hatches would be installed into the ship, one on each side of the hull, on G Deck, just above the waterline. These hatches would be used to load and unload the tenders after they were already in the water. A folding crane would also be installed to hoist the tenders onto the ship and lower them into the water. Additional engineering work would be done to ensure the ship kept her trim and draft the same. It was hoped that the work would take no more than one month.

Adriatic entered dry dock at Harland and Wolff in August of 1967 for the needed modifications. True to their word, Harland and Wolff had her back in the water in three weeks. She would be ready to resume her sailings on the anniversary of her first cruise. The new tenders that Adriatic carried, named Nomadic and Traffic after the two long serving White Star tenders in Cherbourg, would allow the ship to greatly expand the number of ports she could call on. The two tenders would be see almost daily use for the remainder of Adriatic's career.

_________________________​

As the new year of 1968 began White Star made several adjustments to their schedule. Services to Boston and Baltimore would be reduced from weekly, to bi-weekly. To accommodate the disruption in service, an interline agreement was reached with Eastern Airlines to provide shuttle services between New York, Boston and Baltimore for White Star passengers sailing to or from New York who's origin or destination was in those cities. This was in addition to the already existing interline agreement with the New York Central, Pennsylvania Railroad, Chesapeake, Baltimore and Ohio and with the New York, New Haven and Hartford railroads. White Star's service to Quebec and New York would remain unchanged.

What the service realignment meant in the short term, was that an additional Baltic-class liner would be available for conversion to an Adriatic-class cruise ship. After some juggling of hulls, White Star announced that the RMS Georgic, the second ship of the Baltic-class would be converted into the second ship of the Adriatic-class. Her conversion, while being broadly similar to her sister's, would incorporate several improvements to the design. Mainly in regard to adjusting the interior slightly to cater more toward American tastes than British or European. In addition, after a short-lived experiment with calling them "balconies" the private promenades reverted to their traditional name. The cabins they were part of were classified as Promenade Suites. This change coming about as George Ismay felt the name "balconies" to be somewhat trashy and low class.

Externally, the biggest difference between the Adriatic and the Georgic was the additional pool and "Lido Deck" that Georgic sported. An outdoor bar was also built on the Lido Deck as White Star came to realize that, though the ship was entirely air conditioned, passengers on vacation to tropical climates wanted to spend as much time out of doors and enjoying the climate as possible. Georgic would also include a disco onboard, breaking with a longstanding White Star tradition of no organized dancing. Georgic was scheduled to begin her conversion in March of 1968 and reenter service by January, 1969.

A/N: Apologies for the long delay! Again. I'm hopeful that I'll be able to update the story somewhat regularly from here on out. Fingers crossed anyway. Also, a big thank you to @USSManhattan for the nomination for a Turtledove! Totally unexpected, but hugely appreciated!!!
 
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My only criticism of the update is that RMS stands for Royal Mail Ship. As a cruise liner she won't carry mail, therefore depending on her propulsion, she is now SS (Steam Ship) or MV (Motor Vessel)... Or something else. NV (Nuclear Vessel) meybe? ;)
 

SsgtC

Banned
My only criticism of the update is that RMS stands for Royal Mail Ship. As a cruise liner she won't carry mail, therefore depending on her propulsion, she is now SS (Steam Ship) or MV (Motor Vessel)... Or something else. NV (Nuclear Vessel) meybe? ;)
Technically, they're cruise liners. Small distinction, I know. But they do still occasionally sail in liner service. And when sailing from Southampton they will still carry the Royal Mail. As the fleet expands, some ships will lose their RMS designation and be designated MV (all White Star ships are diesel-electric).

As for nuclear ships, unlikely. Nuc power is roughly 10 years behind here and is fairly limited in it's applications. Some submarines are making use of it, but that's about it for sea-going vessels.
 
Technically, they're cruise liners. Small distinction, I know. But they do still occasionally sail in liner service. And when sailing from Southampton they will still carry the Royal Mail. As the fleet expands, some ships will lose their RMS designation and be designated MV (all White Star ships are diesel-electric).
Makes sense.

As for nuclear ships, unlikely. Nuc power is roughly 10 years behind here and is fairly limited in it's applications. Some submarines are making use of it, but that's about it for sea-going vessels.
WHAT!?!?!? Thomas Andrews has not advanced the fleet to those levels yet????? ;);)
 
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