SsgtC
Banned
Well, the UK had much better relations with the Middle East ITTL. So oil isn't as much of an issue. Decolonization wasn't as traumatic. Plus, the major powers of Europe worked closer together to eat the transition
White Star and Titanic, What Could have Been
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Well, the UK had much better relations with the Middle East ITTL. So oil isn't as much of an issue. Decolonization wasn't as traumatic. Plus, the major powers of Europe worked closer together to eat the transition
I agree for the most part. If historically fossil fuel was in short supply and 20-30 time it is nuclear might be cost effective when you add the economy of scale.
SsgtC
Banned
This. Fossil fuels would have to be over $200 a barrel. And be sustained at that price for years. Only then would nuclear power be attractive for a ship with an expected life of 25-30 years. And if you're going nuclear, you better plan your ship to last for 50+
Does the cost per barrel include the supply line between the nodding donkey and the fuel filler cap on the ship? If it's truly unrealistic beyond ASB, I won't flog the dead donkey, but the advantages in not having to fuel and thus the increased range stand out to me. Also, is there any advantage to 'mass producing' reactors - not at the Ford Model T kind of level, but just being the same reactor as being utilised in a series of naval vessels such as SSNs, SSBNs, CVNs CGNs, reducing the overall cost.
SsgtC
Banned
No, that's just the cost of straight crude. Didn't even consider the cost of refining and transport to the ship. The range issue isn't nearly as big as you might think. Fuel costs are expensive. But crew costs are even higher over the life of the ship. And as for using a military design, that posses a ton of problems with security and requiring the operaters to hold a security clearance. It's a huge mess.
XIV
SsgtC
Banned
A/N: I'm going to be switching formats here for a bit to try and see what works best for the story. Please feel free to provide whatever feedback you can! Let me know, should I stay with the format I've been using or stick to the new one? Or maybe combine the two as it fits the story? Thank you for sticking with me so far!
May 1965
George Bruce Ismay, youngest son of J. Bruce Ismay and current Managing Director and President of White Star Line called a meeting of all his Directors and Fleet Planners. His company was the largest, most profitable passenger carrying line in the world. They operated some of the largest, fastest ships to have ever existed. He had been raised in this company by his father. The only one of his children to have followed in the business his grandfather took over in 1868. By any reasonable standard, he should be extremely pleased with his business. And he was. But he was also worried. For all his life, the only reliable means of crossing the world's oceans was via steam or motor ship. But with these new aircraft coming into play, how much longer would that situation last?
In the Conference Room at Albion House, White Star's headquarters since 1898, Ismay presided over the meeting. First on the agenda was the potential threat to the business posed by air travel. While some of his Directors openly scoffed at the idea that aircraft could ever dethrone Liners as the preeminent way of traversing the world, Ismay quickly reminded everyone that White Star did not become the dominant shipping line in the world by being passive. They had been, and would continue to be, proactive in protecting and advancing their business interests. After several hours of sometimes acrimonious discussion, the meeting was ended with plans to perform additional research into the potential problems and solutions.
June 1965
White Star Line unveiled a new museum within Albion House, Liverpool on the first of the month. The museum showcased the history of the line, with every surviving ship's bell from every ship that had ever sailed under White Star, Cunard, Red Star, Dominion and Leyland Lines. Prominent among these, were the ship's bells from Olympic, Titanic, Britannic, the Oceanic of 1899, Majestic, Mauritania, Aquitania and the recently recovered ship's bell of the Lusitania. It also displayed the acquisition dates for each one of the lines that White Star acquired. The museum was open only to employees of White Star Line and their guests. In conjunction with this, White Star opened a second building in Liverpool to house their archives. This building was open by request to historians who were interested in writing a history of the British shipping industry as a whole, and White Star in particular.
Later that same day, the Directors of White Star met once again to discuss the developing competition from air travel. This time George Ismay had information that shocked his Directors. In late May, he had spoken extensively with William Allen, President of the Boeing Company. The current 707 was just the tip of the iceberg. Boeing had plans to expand the number of different types of aircraft that they offered to cover everything from short haul to long haul. And plans to offer planes with passenger capacities of between three hundred and four hundred passengers. Granted, those large aircraft were at least ten years away from being introduced. But the very possibility that they could exist was frightening. This revelation spurred the various executives to actively find ways to protect their business.
July 1965
Beginning in the middle of July, the Board of Directors of White Star began to plan for Mauritania's retirement. Her retirement from service promised to be interesting, as for the last ten years, Clair MacBeth had called Mauritania home. She would book continuous back to back sailings on the ship, transferring to other vessels only when Mauritania went in for her annual refit. While passengers were usually no more than spectators to ship retirement, Clair was a special case. After speaking to Captain John "Treasure" Jones, Mauritania's commanding officer, Ms. MacBeth agreed to participate in the ship's retirement ceremony. Also requested to be present by White Star was every surviving Cunard Captain and Commodore. Additionally, for her last year of service, she was to be repainted into Cunard colors and the Cunard House Flag flown once again from her mainmast. As a promotional item, all boarding passes issued to passengers would be marked, "Cunard Line" in recognition of the final passing of the once great line. Mauritania was scheduled to arrive in Southampton on her final Trans-Atlantic crossing on September 17th, 1966. She would be officially retired two days later on the 19th.
August 1965
At the monthly meeting of the Board of Directors of White Star, the first tentative plans were proposed to compete with air travel. The suggestions covered the complete gamut from "ignore it and hope it goes away" to "abandon Trans-Atlantic service all together." Obviously neither of those suggestions were plausible. However, several of the ones in-between those two showed promise. Of all the suggestions offered, five were selected for further study and development.
September 1965
On September 1st, RMS Mauritania emerged from her refit resplendent in Cunard colors. It was the first time in ten years that a ship had been seen in Southampton with Cunard Red on her funnel. From her mainmast the Cunard House Flag snapped out in the breeze, the White Star burgee flying just below it, in deference to the pending retirement of the last ship built for Cunard. For the next year, the ship would host a number of festivities commemorating not only her 25 years in service, but Cunard's long history as well.
On the 26th of the month, a fire broke out aboard the RMS Adriatic, one of the Baltic-class ships, while on her way to Sydney, Australia. The fire began in stateroom D-55, when the passenger who had booked the cabin fell asleep and dropped a lit cigarette onto the bedding. Fortunately, the crew was able to contain the blaze, but not before it had consumed ten additional cabins and caused smoke damage across three decks. As a safety precaution, the Captain ordered his passengers into the lifeboats until the fire was contained and the ship out of immediate danger. In the aftermath of the fire, it was discovered that four passengers and three crew members had been killed and two dozen passengers and crew injured in the rush to get clear of the fire and into the boats.
As a result of the fire, the Adriatic diverted from her intended destination of Sydney and put in at the Port of Darwin to discharge her passengers and await instructions regarding repairs. Upon being informed of fire, White Star hastily juggled their shipping schedules. Due to Adriatic being unable to complete either her outbound or inbound voyage, White Star dispatched Olympic to Sydney at her maximum speed, carrying only a few passengers and cargo. She would arrive in Sydney in just over a week. Meanwhile, the Britannic was transferred to the Southampton to New York route in Olympic's place, being pulled off her normal route connecting Liverpool, Glasgow, Cobh and New York.
After a preliminary survey conducted in Darwin, the decision was made sail the Adriatic back to Belfast for a more detailed inspection and any required repairs. She would depart Darwin on the third of October manned by only her deck and engineering departments, while the remainder of her crew was sent home onboard the Olympic.
____________________________________________________
May 1965
George Bruce Ismay, youngest son of J. Bruce Ismay and current Managing Director and President of White Star Line called a meeting of all his Directors and Fleet Planners. His company was the largest, most profitable passenger carrying line in the world. They operated some of the largest, fastest ships to have ever existed. He had been raised in this company by his father. The only one of his children to have followed in the business his grandfather took over in 1868. By any reasonable standard, he should be extremely pleased with his business. And he was. But he was also worried. For all his life, the only reliable means of crossing the world's oceans was via steam or motor ship. But with these new aircraft coming into play, how much longer would that situation last?
In the Conference Room at Albion House, White Star's headquarters since 1898, Ismay presided over the meeting. First on the agenda was the potential threat to the business posed by air travel. While some of his Directors openly scoffed at the idea that aircraft could ever dethrone Liners as the preeminent way of traversing the world, Ismay quickly reminded everyone that White Star did not become the dominant shipping line in the world by being passive. They had been, and would continue to be, proactive in protecting and advancing their business interests. After several hours of sometimes acrimonious discussion, the meeting was ended with plans to perform additional research into the potential problems and solutions.
June 1965
White Star Line unveiled a new museum within Albion House, Liverpool on the first of the month. The museum showcased the history of the line, with every surviving ship's bell from every ship that had ever sailed under White Star, Cunard, Red Star, Dominion and Leyland Lines. Prominent among these, were the ship's bells from Olympic, Titanic, Britannic, the Oceanic of 1899, Majestic, Mauritania, Aquitania and the recently recovered ship's bell of the Lusitania. It also displayed the acquisition dates for each one of the lines that White Star acquired. The museum was open only to employees of White Star Line and their guests. In conjunction with this, White Star opened a second building in Liverpool to house their archives. This building was open by request to historians who were interested in writing a history of the British shipping industry as a whole, and White Star in particular.
Later that same day, the Directors of White Star met once again to discuss the developing competition from air travel. This time George Ismay had information that shocked his Directors. In late May, he had spoken extensively with William Allen, President of the Boeing Company. The current 707 was just the tip of the iceberg. Boeing had plans to expand the number of different types of aircraft that they offered to cover everything from short haul to long haul. And plans to offer planes with passenger capacities of between three hundred and four hundred passengers. Granted, those large aircraft were at least ten years away from being introduced. But the very possibility that they could exist was frightening. This revelation spurred the various executives to actively find ways to protect their business.
July 1965
Beginning in the middle of July, the Board of Directors of White Star began to plan for Mauritania's retirement. Her retirement from service promised to be interesting, as for the last ten years, Clair MacBeth had called Mauritania home. She would book continuous back to back sailings on the ship, transferring to other vessels only when Mauritania went in for her annual refit. While passengers were usually no more than spectators to ship retirement, Clair was a special case. After speaking to Captain John "Treasure" Jones, Mauritania's commanding officer, Ms. MacBeth agreed to participate in the ship's retirement ceremony. Also requested to be present by White Star was every surviving Cunard Captain and Commodore. Additionally, for her last year of service, she was to be repainted into Cunard colors and the Cunard House Flag flown once again from her mainmast. As a promotional item, all boarding passes issued to passengers would be marked, "Cunard Line" in recognition of the final passing of the once great line. Mauritania was scheduled to arrive in Southampton on her final Trans-Atlantic crossing on September 17th, 1966. She would be officially retired two days later on the 19th.
August 1965
At the monthly meeting of the Board of Directors of White Star, the first tentative plans were proposed to compete with air travel. The suggestions covered the complete gamut from "ignore it and hope it goes away" to "abandon Trans-Atlantic service all together." Obviously neither of those suggestions were plausible. However, several of the ones in-between those two showed promise. Of all the suggestions offered, five were selected for further study and development.
September 1965
On September 1st, RMS Mauritania emerged from her refit resplendent in Cunard colors. It was the first time in ten years that a ship had been seen in Southampton with Cunard Red on her funnel. From her mainmast the Cunard House Flag snapped out in the breeze, the White Star burgee flying just below it, in deference to the pending retirement of the last ship built for Cunard. For the next year, the ship would host a number of festivities commemorating not only her 25 years in service, but Cunard's long history as well.
On the 26th of the month, a fire broke out aboard the RMS Adriatic, one of the Baltic-class ships, while on her way to Sydney, Australia. The fire began in stateroom D-55, when the passenger who had booked the cabin fell asleep and dropped a lit cigarette onto the bedding. Fortunately, the crew was able to contain the blaze, but not before it had consumed ten additional cabins and caused smoke damage across three decks. As a safety precaution, the Captain ordered his passengers into the lifeboats until the fire was contained and the ship out of immediate danger. In the aftermath of the fire, it was discovered that four passengers and three crew members had been killed and two dozen passengers and crew injured in the rush to get clear of the fire and into the boats.
As a result of the fire, the Adriatic diverted from her intended destination of Sydney and put in at the Port of Darwin to discharge her passengers and await instructions regarding repairs. Upon being informed of fire, White Star hastily juggled their shipping schedules. Due to Adriatic being unable to complete either her outbound or inbound voyage, White Star dispatched Olympic to Sydney at her maximum speed, carrying only a few passengers and cargo. She would arrive in Sydney in just over a week. Meanwhile, the Britannic was transferred to the Southampton to New York route in Olympic's place, being pulled off her normal route connecting Liverpool, Glasgow, Cobh and New York.
After a preliminary survey conducted in Darwin, the decision was made sail the Adriatic back to Belfast for a more detailed inspection and any required repairs. She would depart Darwin on the third of October manned by only her deck and engineering departments, while the remainder of her crew was sent home onboard the Olympic.
Nice update. I wonder what the Board's recommendations will be. White Star branded Luxury airliners or Cattle carrier planes? Deal with BAOC for plane-ship deal?
Interesting thought are White Star tied into any rail-ship deals? Depending on if they have been involved in any of the Big 4 UK train companies, and if nationalisation happened they might be part owners of a huge suite of hotels, etc.
Be cool if RMS Mauritania took the place of Queen Mary as a museum ship ITTL.
Interesting thought are White Star tied into any rail-ship deals? Depending on if they have been involved in any of the Big 4 UK train companies, and if nationalisation happened they might be part owners of a huge suite of hotels, etc.
Be cool if RMS Mauritania took the place of Queen Mary as a museum ship ITTL.
SsgtC
Banned
You'll just have to wait and see! Lol.
Actually, yes they are. They don't own any railroads, but they have agreements with railroads in several countries to offer a combined ticket, rail travel to the port, then on to the ship. Or vice versa. Think of it as similar to today's codesharing in the airline industry.
Not sure about this. QM was a ship with a truly outstanding history. TTL Mauritania's doesn't really stack up. Besides, if Titanic couldn't get saved with all she accomplished, it would be a real challenge to save Maury
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The logical things for White Star to do would be to enter the airline market (White Star Airlines), converse some liners to cruise ships and try to expand into containerised cargo shipping.
QM also represents a bygone era, a mode of travel that no longer exists (at least not in the form it used to). ITTL ocean liners don't have so much of a golden age because there's continuous progress; the latest ships would be the biggest and best ones. So having a museum ship at all ITTL would be like having a 707 museum airplane IOTL. There might be a bit of nostalgia, but not as much.
SsgtC
Banned
Not quite. At least not at this point. And going into straight cargo shipping is right out. That would be like Carnival or Royal Caribbean owning container ships. White Star operated cruises before. In the 20s and 30s. But it hasn't really taken off since. And as for airlines, that's something to be considered, but not something I'm going to comment on yet.
SsgtC
Banned
Exactly. Ocean Liners are STILL the primary means of crossing oceans. Most of the White Star fleet is 10 years old or less. Some are only 2-3 years old.
SsgtC
Banned
Beautiful ships, but not something White Star would invest in. The closest they came is some of their earlier liners on the Australian service which could possibly be classified as cargo liners, but nothing since.Fast cargoliners? I always thought they looked fairly sweet, with sleek lines and the superstructure a bit like Vanguard, bluff at the front but slowly descending aft.
SsgtC
Banned
Cunard didn't truly own the airline. They had a 60% controlling stake in Eagle. For only 3 years. They acquired that stake in 1960 and Eagle bought it back in 1963.
As for MSC Cruises, Mediterranean Shipping Company bought out the Italian company, Lauro Lines in 1989. Long after MSC was established as a containerized shipping company. They weren't a liner company that converted to cruises and branched out to cargo shipping. Very different situations here.
SsgtC
Banned
I'll have to look it up. Their ships do handle cargo to an extent. Usually express shipment items, things that need to get where they're going ASAP. IF White Star were to get involved in containerized shipping, it would most definitely be under a different name. They do own the rights to Red Star Line, Dominion Line and Leyland Line. They're not going to use the White Star name for pure cargo shipping though.
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