Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
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Considering the talk of Confederates fleeing the country, maybe we could have Confederado-style communities be a thing in South Africa or even Australia ITTL in addition to being somewhat more prominent in Brazil?
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I can imagine a bunch of Ex-Confederates trying to move to some small Central American countries and... Attempting to influence local politics. To put it lightly.
Sounds like a perfect
This might be way too early to bring up. But does a US that cares more for Black people consider annexing Liberia?
I think not. Liberia had declared independence in 1847, which was unrecognized by the United States until 1862. Given that the Liberians wanted independence, I doubt that Radical Republicans like Charles Sumner would vote for annexation. It would also undermine the status of independent black republics to the world. I'll quote Charles Sumner's stance on Santo Domingo as it fits the situation, "their independence is as precious to them as is ours to us, and it is placed under the safeguard of natural laws which we cannot violate with impunity."
Besides, I really don't hope to see the United States get tangled with the nasty relations between the American-Liberians and the other ethnic groups in Liberia.
I would agree with @Arnold d.c that it's unlikely due to the politics both OTL and ITTL. Liberia's been independent for over a decade de facto, even though its ties to the US and its moneyed forces in particular either still tie it or will tie it to the US as a pseudo-puppet/protectorate (IOTL at least).
Now that said, there was a lot of cultural cross-pollination between the Amero-Liberian elite and the US even into the post-WW2 era, with many of its leaders going to the US for education and then coming back to Liberia later in life. A hopefully less authoritarian and racist USA could have knock-on effects to the relationship between the Amero-Liberians and other African ethnic groups within its territory and make that whole "one of two non-colonized African nations" thing a little bit more truthful than the OTL historical myth where in reality it was still a colonial project with a settler elite domineering over local natives, it just so happened the domineering elite were black former American slaves and their descendants with support from white American business interests like Firestone Rubber.
You could maybe argue that a more inclusive USA could see a larger movement for Liberia to be (re-)annexed by the US, but I still don't see it becoming a majority due to a mix of the tyranny of distance, other ethnic groups, and TTL's general desire to avoid US imperialism, not provide it with justifications.
Somewhat tangentially related to this topic, maybe we could see bigger Confederate emigration from the US into countries like Brazil or South Africa?
Fun fact: One of Brazil's most famous singers of the 20th century, Rita Lee (who unfortunately died this week) is a direct descendant of Confederate emigrants and her surname Lee is an homage to Robert E. Lee (https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/c8877j8ylx9o (You can use Google Translate))
Fun fact: One of Brazil's most famous singers of the 20th century, Rita Lee (who unfortunately died this week) is a direct descendant of Confederate emigrants and her surname Lee is an homage to Robert E. Lee (https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/c8877j8ylx9o (You can use Google Translate))
So its now 1945 for the Conferency and the end is coming. Considering all the hints I seen about the post war aftermath, the South might see close to Paraguay levels of destruction from the war of the triple alliance and a post war famine. I do wonder how grand Lincoln eventually funeral would be, I can see him having a much bigger legacy in this TL and casting a huge shadow over future presidents. Especially as I see the president a sort of like the Doctor from Doctor who.
Hate to be the guy who comes after him, because those are some big shoes to fill and high standards.
Hate to be the guy who comes after him, because those are some big shoes to fill and high standards.
Okay, you're gonna have to explain this metaphor because it's really weird
Well you see, I look at the office of the President as this guy who every four or eight years just regenerate into a new face with whole new personality. And the different versions of him have either be great, bad or just in the middle.
xiru misionero
Banned
I don't see the US army throwing cholera victims into water sources or doing ''who can slit the most prisoners' necks'' competitions.
Widespread atrocities would be necessary to approach triple alliance war levels of depopulation.
Not to mention that the Confederacy isn't sending armies made up of children to be decimated by glory hunger commanders
1864, actually. What @Lisowczycy means is that the CSA's situation right now is comparable to that of the Axis in OTL 1945.
Yes(1864 really) but they're referencing the collapse of the Axis with that.
Edit: Damn Ninja's.
Thanks, I appreciate the offer.
I myself believe that Latin America is in a very dire position due to the way the independence wars developed. With how destructive they were, and given their inability to create good states instead only giving birth to caudillismo and dictatorships, it's very difficult to find a way to create prosperous democracies. That's why my other TL (sadly long neglected) has its POD in the Independence era. Here I'll just try to minimize the damage. Averting the Mexican Revolution would already be huge, I believe.
It could be a sad illustration of the fact that less prejudice against Black people does not necessarily mean less prejudice against all minorities. Heck, I could see some African Americans being hostile to Chinese immigrants as unfair competition.
I'm glad to see you reading that update
It's one I'm rather proud of, and given the number of likes it's also one of the most well-received by my dear readers. A moment that will echo down in history, for sure. I'm not sure about Australia, I doubt the British would like that. South Africa... maybe.
I, for one, welcome our new American
I agree with @Arnold d.c and @Jord839 here. Besides being rather unrealistic, it's also something I personally wish to avoid.
Brazilian Confederates is also something wild. Ironically, they might be the only ones that can actually claim to be all about heritage, not hate.
When Lincoln dies it's bound to be the grandest event. I mean, this is the Savior of the Union right here. His legacy may be somewhat more complicated, since IOTL Lincoln being martyred somewhat helped his image. At the same time, the Lost Cause has tarnished it, and I sadly see a lot of modern people saying that Lincoln was a White Supremacist no better than Davis or Lee because he didn't free all the enslaved, execute all rebels, and transformed the US into a utopia on day one. They will pull 1856 quotes to say why Lincoln 1865 sucked.
Indeed. Sometimes I believe people lose sight of the fact that my main intention is to try and build a better US at the end of the war. Some users have talked of "Paraguay is the objective," but it isn't because I don't want the South to be so devastated. It's unrealistic, since the Union was trying to conquer, not to destroy the South; it's counterproductive, since that is bound to make re-union impossible and would probably affect Black people just as much; and, frankly, it's somewhat mean spirited. My guiding light when writing has always been to have principles and idealism as the cornerstones of the TL. If I'm ever writing about the US Army mudering children just because, then I've lost myself.
You've missed a few updated my friend lol. Curiously, the last update dealing with 1861 was posted three years ago, and we're now at 1864, so we're actually matching the pace of the real world.
Well, I thought of both Australia and South Africa in how colonial authorities/Boer Republics would be desperate for any White settlers that they could have and all that.
You know even if the US doesn't go for Liberia I could see it getting involved in Africa. Trying to establish colonies to "protect the black man from the Imperialistic Europeans who aim to exploit and enslave them anew". At the bare minimum having this US end up with the Congo instead of Belgium would be a major improvement.
My only concern is what American businesses will do there. Knowing Latin America and the banana republics, I suspect it won't go well.