TL 191 HOI4 Mod Update and Discussion Thread

To be honest, as difficult it is, I find it nice to play as the CSA, it's the same level of challenge as defeating Germany as France in Kaiserreich. I believe that a game can have two levels of difficult, the first is the one that it is difficult, but you will win anyway, like Germany in apres moi le deluge, as it takes time to defeat the french but slowy and surely you will eventually deplet their manpower and counterattack, while with the CSA I really fell I can lose.
 
Which sucks because I have 250 divisions to a hundred and fifty Confederate ones, and I was about open a massive can of whoop ass up on Jake the Snake.
One thing to flag: The Entente will send all of their forces to America, which is a huge PITA.
 
One thing to flag: The Entente will send all of their forces to America, which is a huge PITA.
I was able to wipe out most of their armed forces by parking my navies up and down the east coast, but this WAS an extremely annoying thing to have happen.
 
I’ve just started playing as the CSA and I love the tiny details in this mod that are from the books such as the ministers for the CSA are all characters from the books. I haven’t seen the focus tree for the USA yet so I’m curious if Daniel McArthur is in one the focus trees and if his portrait has his cigarette stick instead of a corncob pipe.
 
I will reiterate my suggestions for the USA:
  1. Make some paths less obviously terrible.
  2. Make the Utah revolt only happen if the USA goes authoritarian.
  3. Make the military coup only happen if the USA is losing.
  4. KEEP the USA obviously superior to the CSA. There is literally no logical reason for the CSA to be anything other than an incompetent joke of a country that can only achieve limited success due to gross incompetence on the part of the USA or a player.
  5. KEEP the "get better strategies to unlock military focuses" thing, that is a great idea.
  6. Eliminate the ridiculous Texas revolt or give the USA a chance to say "no, fuck you, you don't get to get out of this by swearing up and down you had nothing to do with Featherston", because as-is this makes the war front a headache beyond all belief.
  7. If the CSA is in the Entente, the US/CS war should IMMEDIATELY spark WW2. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts.
I know that the devs aren't going to scrap Featherston despite everything about him and his regime being a bad joke, but there is a lot that can be improved.
 
I will reiterate my suggestions for the USA:

Make the military coup only happen if the USA is losing.
Indeed.

  1. Make the Utah revolt only happen if the USA goes authoritarian

  2. Eliminate the ridiculous Texas revolt or give the USA a chance to say "no, fuck you, you don't get to get out of this by swearing up and down you had nothing to do with Featherston", because as-is this makes the war front a headache beyond all belief.
  3. If the CSA is in the Entente, the US/CS war should IMMEDIATELY spark WW2. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts

The devs stated they will stick to the lore, wether you like it or not. Wether it is stupid or not.
These things are in the lore, they will stay in the mod.

  1. KEEP the USA obviously superior to the CSA. There is literally no logical reason for the CSA to be anything other than an incompetent joke of a country that can only achieve limited success due to gross incompetence on the part of the USA or a player.​

Again, lore reasons and gameplay reasons.
If all of this so much a problem for you, then play some other alternate rather than a TL-191 based one or do a mod-mod.
 
If all of this so much a problem for you, then play some other alternate rather than a TL-191 based one or do a mod-mod.
Please remain civil. Don't say other people what to play and what to not. It's true that the devs have a right to do whatever they want in their mod, and it's true that he may be right but all of this doesn't matter. What matters is to keep the discussion civil. I certainly don't see it civil in sending people to play other mods.
 
The devs stated they will stick to the lore, wether you like it or not. Wether it is stupid or not.
These things are in the lore, they will stay in the mod.
Those lore reasons objectively make the game less fun and interesting to play, though. Especially since in the books they were obvious and patently stupid clumsy handwaves to screw the US as much as possible to make it seem momentarily that the already-wanked-to-Hell CSA had a snowball's chance in the fires of Dis.

My concerns are generally around fun and plausibility. Where the original lore is not fun or plausible, I think that it should be changed or abandoned, period. Slavishly sticking to old lore is frankly not actually a good thing--just ask the Kaiserreich devs.
 
Well, most of the interwar +2nd great war of tl-191 is wonky at best. I do enjoy part of it, though, or I wouldn't play the mod or have reacted.
But God knows how I wish Turtledove had taken other ways or at least less stupid ones. People asked for sequels I guess, so he wrote them and was (voluntarily I presume) his own caricature.

As for the US , they are a sleeping/decadent giant in lore. Such as it should be in game. Any decent player will all the same be ready by 1941 to steamroll the western & northern rebels as well as the CSA. It's the main event in a non challenging game, not much reasons to give the US a better time : they do not need it. Both the AI vs AI or an human player will prevail. The US player would also expect some actual fighting

As for the lore, (almost) every player would expect something following it and the staples of Tl-191 : mormon rebels, confederacy with a fighting chance when the war breaks out and outrageous parallelism.

I don't know much about Kaiserreich these days. I was never a fan of this timeline of theirs and their non-sensical syndicalism. Last time I gave it a try was close to 10 years ago, in the days of Darkest Hours. It was fun though, even if the lore was IMHO somewhat meh.
Just as Southern Victory can be fun with barrels rolling in Ohio, even if the 2nd great war & Featherston makes not much sense. ;)
 
Those lore reasons objectively make the game less fun and interesting to play, though. Especially since in the books they were obvious and patently stupid clumsy handwaves to screw the US as much as possible to make it seem momentarily that the already-wanked-to-Hell CSA had a snowball's chance in the fires of Dis.

My concerns are generally around fun and plausibility. Where the original lore is not fun or plausible, I think that it should be changed or abandoned, period. Slavishly sticking to old lore is frankly not actually a good thing--just ask the Kaiserreich devs.
Well, about the USA, i gonna reiterate Calbear argument for the Anglo american nazi war.

Basically when he was asked why he has stalin to crush his own government to allow the nazis to win, he said that as unrealistic that is, there wouldn't be a story without this.

Assuming the USA was coherent, strong and self assertive, there wouldn't be a war between the CSA and the north, and the mod wouldn't be a TL 191 mod.
 
Well, about the USA, i gonna reiterate Calbear argument for the Anglo american nazi war.

Basically when he was asked why he has stalin to crush his own government to allow the nazis to win, he said that as unrealistic that is, there wouldn't be a story without this.

Assuming the USA was coherent, strong and self assertive, there wouldn't be a war between the CSA and the north, and the mod wouldn't be a TL 191 mod.
But that's an excuse for the CSA winning once. Not the CSA being copy-pasted Nazi Germany to the USA's straw USSR in 1939.

The CSA winning once despite the massive odds stacked against it? That's a handwave I can tolerate. The CSA winning twice, surviving the third time, then becoming literally the Nazis but with the names changed (and sometimes quite lazily at that) and pulling a Holocaust with about the same amount of logistical fallout despite blacks being about a third of the population of the South?

That's dumb, nonsensical, and just not fun, because at that point you're not asking "what would happen if X implausible thing happened?", it's just blatantly stacking the deck to make some frankly rather boring bad guys much stronger than they ought to be.
 
But that's an excuse for the CSA winning once. Not the CSA being copy-pasted Nazi Germany to the USA's straw USSR in 1939.
Yes, the CSA never would be a nazi germany, this is something out of the insane wish of harry Turtledove to make a american Hitler... but the problem is that by removing this, this mod would stop being a TL 191 mod...

That's dumb, nonsensical, and just not fun, because at that point you're not asking "what would happen if X implausible thing happened?", it's just blatantly stacking the deck to make some frankly rather boring bad guys much stronger than they ought to be.
It's dumb, nonsensical and ASB, I desagree about not being fun because I had a lot of fun playing as both sides, but I agree on all the other points.

But here the problem: This mod is a ASB mod, based on a ASB mod concept, by removing this, this mod would stop being a TL 191 mod. The brazilian sucession for example is another example of Harry Turtledove not having ANY idea of what he does... but at the end of the day the mod is a ASB mod based on his incoherent storyline...
 
Then why not just have the mod be "inspired by" the books? And limit or modify the stupid stuff so that it bears some form of resemblance to making sense?

I'm not actually asking for very much, I can even tolerate Kaiserreich's Commune of France despite its logical improbability. but in my view the closer the American theater of the mod hews to the books (especially since they already radically diverge from the books by having a whole bunch of Confederate democratic trees), the less fun it gets.
 
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