Sixes and Snake eyes Rommel's luck in an alternate 1942 desert war

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Now that's obviously convenient for the plot, but is it all that implausible? Bypassing the enemy minefields, (which were key for their defense plan), achieving tactical surprise, disrupting enemy CCC, attacking with great speed which shocked the defenders, (Shock & Owe) while having a great numerical superiority are a good formula for success. That was the basis of the German Storm, or Shock Troop tactics of WWI, which were carried over into WWII. With a little better luck for the Axis this could've happened.
OTL the Axis weren't aware of the extent of the minefields. There was no chance of tactical surprise, Keonig was well aware of axis attacks on other Allied formations earlier in the day and the POD bombing comes after the OTL repulsed attack by a battalion of Ariete. In this time line its Italians not Germans attacking. While I am not one to belittle the Italians, Treiste had four motorised infantry battalions. 1FFB had five, they (the French) are not outnumbered anywhere near the amount to be overrun. They are also extremely well dug in combat veterans. The OP attended to amend this with motorised reinforcements from two other Italian infantry divisions but historical these units (the reinforcements, not Trieste) were not motorised and were using the 1942 African organisation for infantry battalions which had only one infantry platoon per company which drastically reduced the offensive capacities of said infantry. Besides, according to the OP 1FFB all knew they would be executed on surrender so had no inclination to do so. So no I don't believe 'with a little bit of luck' Bir Hakeim will fall on 27/6/1942.

Sorry didn't see your last post was typing at the time.
 
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Garrison

Donor
Ah, so your are looking for fairness, because that's happened a lot in history. Not possibly wich is what this intier forum is built on. Honestly if we took that rational then we would have to delete 90% of the threads here.
No we are looking for plausibility, which is a requirement in Post-1900. When the lucky breaks enjoyed by one side are magnified and multiplied whilst the other side does whatever in required for the plot to move forward that is not plausible and invoking 'truth is stranger than fiction' is not an excuse for implausibility in this forum. There are other subforums where those constraints don't apply.
 

cardcarrier

Banned
No.

The OP has a good understanding of Gazala and in some ways is playing fair - I've not seen German forces being used in 2 places at the same time, or magically teleporting around the battlefield.

However he needs a battle that ends quicker with the balance of forces at the end much more in Rommel's favour. This means the British have to perform worse - hence British commanders being captured, support echelons destroyed, supply bases captured, the RAF removed, Bir Hacheim destroyed quickly, stupid attacks, early surrenders, chaos at GHQ - and the Germans much better - troops being flown into the front line, British artillery and tanks being put into use immediately, upgrading the performance of the Italians, more effective intelligence, forces in just the right place to stop a British retreat, no obvious impact of attrition on the German forces; and all of these changes from a baseline of probably the worst British handling of a battle in WW2.

Even with multiple points of departure, Rommel is still unlikely to capture Egypt.
the above is probably the closest analysis at what I'm trying to do in this timeline ty

Gazala was close run in a number of senses (including multiple opportunities for the 8th army to force the surrender of the dak, when it was marooned without fuel several times in the battle); Rommel was not far from his campaign objective after all; but his window is just that a window, it has HARD dead ends in the fall including but not limited to:

1. Axis complete strategic logistical collapse in September, as the need to reinforce Rommel, the needs of case blue and the vast needs of Army Group Center to defend the Rhzev salient in Operation Mars' beta test, lead to every bit of the system falling on it's ass. AGC consumed ALL of the artillery ammunition designated for the eastern front, including all the captured french stocks from 1940
2. The above requiring ALL of Rommel's air support to be withdrawn, including forces used to suppress Malta
3. The ultimate introduction of fresh American ground troops, somewhere by the end of the year (even if my timeline causes them to go to Egypt instead of operation Torch
4. His intel sources while effective having short expiration dates
5. His success, would (and did) trigger the British to dispose of Ritchie and Smith, and the balance of the British command pool where more competent and decisive, and didn't fall for his traps; literally ever. Montgomery beat Rommel like a drum and ran a tight, professional ship, no criticism of Montgomery, revisionist or otherwise should ever miss the forest for the trees, he, and his team smashed all before them with nothing like the losses to their own side of their predecessors. As much as Rommel was saddled with bad orders from Berlin and Rome and a hopeless strategic situation, Montgomery plainly and completely outgeneraled him in every possible way; if Rommel might be an 8/10 as a general looking at the balance of his career; Montgomery was an 11, and it showed in every possible way; Churchill and Brooke did find the right man
6. The British having to juggle many of their experienced regiments away from Egypt to go fight Japan was a temporary condition; thats why Rommel attacked when he did, his numerical weakness was at the best ratio it was ever going to be, the British would be reinforcing much faster than he ever could, he had to catch them right then, because in a couple months those transfers would be complete; and the British have prepared fresh divisions at home which either are going to Torch, or to Egypt
7. Wholesale conversion of the 8th army to Sherman tanks is literally in the pipeline, and while his panzer 3's and 4s where competitive with most things in the desert up to that point, the Sherman is the end of the road, since the number of long 75 panzer 4's Rommel received by November is measured in SINGLE digits

He has 8-12 weeks to inflict major defeat and achieve whatever hes going to achieve, then it's all over, no POD in may even me giving him bir hakeim and having kesselring fold to his need for reinforcements changes anything of the above; those are iron failures in the future that are unavoidable without intervention of extra terrestrials
 
Rommel did receive longer barrels to up gun his tanks in the field and also optics that could be used to upgrade allied captured tanks.
If the British had withdrawn and not left any supplies then Rommel army would run out of fuel and food very fast and be unable to move forward.
The Germans have an advantage in that they have a cure for dysentery that the allies do not have. Dysentery had been a major problem in North Africa.
It will be interesting to see will Tigers show up as they did OTL.
German-Tiger-Tank-Tunisia.jpg

A Tiger tank with staff car and officers in Tunisia, Jan. 1943. The first Tiger tanks arrived in November 1942. Bundesarchiv photo
I think the tigers would land in Tobruk instead of Tripoli
I think they will not meet the Tiger until they get to Tobruk as the tigers would not be able to drive far from a port unless there is railway to move them and not all the way to Egypt.
 
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the above is probably the closest analysis at what I'm trying to do in this timeline ty
:cool:
If you plan to have the Germans take Egypt, probably the best approach is an OTL Gazala, but greater apparent British success at First Alamein. If Rommel had withdrawn by say 100 miles, and Auchinleck had claimed victory, then there might not have been the widespread changes in command or emergency shipments of Shermans in OTL.

This gives Rommel a chance at the end of the August, with a wider front than El Alamein, to try for a re-run of Gazala.
 

cardcarrier

Banned
Rommel can have a better outcome at Gazala, and the axis have a much worse outcome in case blue and the 1st battle of Rhzev
Rommel can capture Alexandria, and still have a worse outcome than he had in OTL
Alexandria is not a magic cure all to any of Rommel's problems, the dead ends I noted above exist regardless and independent of him making those last 90 miles
 

CalBear

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This is no a modified criticism aimed at the POD, the future and blended with some self-praise. Neither of this address luck/initiative post POD which is what I was talking about.

SNIP
I am DONE with the sniping in this thread.

Done.

It is difficult enough to try to figure out if this thing has Jumped the Shark into pure "detached from any sort of plausibility, needs to move to Writer's" by parsing every post of a thread that, given the option, I would have stopped reading before the bottom of the opening post, without having to come in and break up endless primary school playground scuffles.

EVERYONE in this thread is on notice - Play the triple damned Ball. Y'all really, REALLY need to take this one to heart.
 
the above is probably the closest analysis at what I'm trying to do in this timeline ty

Gazala was close run in a number of senses (including multiple opportunities for the 8th army to force the surrender of the dak, when it was marooned without fuel several times in the battle); Rommel was not far from his campaign objective after all; but his window is just that a window, it has HARD dead ends in the fall including but not limited to:

1. Axis complete strategic logistical collapse in September, as the need to reinforce Rommel, the needs of case blue and the vast needs of Army Group Center to defend the Rhzev salient in Operation Mars' beta test, lead to every bit of the system falling on it's ass. AGC consumed ALL of the artillery ammunition designated for the eastern front, including all the captured french stocks from 1940
2. The above requiring ALL of Rommel's air support to be withdrawn, including forces used to suppress Malta
3. The ultimate introduction of fresh American ground troops, somewhere by the end of the year (even if my timeline causes them to go to Egypt instead of operation Torch
4. His intel sources while effective having short expiration dates
5. His success, would (and did) trigger the British to dispose of Ritchie and Smith, and the balance of the British command pool where more competent and decisive, and didn't fall for his traps; literally ever. Montgomery beat Rommel like a drum and ran a tight, professional ship, no criticism of Montgomery, revisionist or otherwise should ever miss the forest for the trees, he, and his team smashed all before them with nothing like the losses to their own side of their predecessors. As much as Rommel was saddled with bad orders from Berlin and Rome and a hopeless strategic situation, Montgomery plainly and completely outgeneraled him in every possible way; if Rommel might be an 8/10 as a general looking at the balance of his career; Montgomery was an 11, and it showed in every possible way; Churchill and Brooke did find the right man
6. The British having to juggle many of their experienced regiments away from Egypt to go fight Japan was a temporary condition; thats why Rommel attacked when he did, his numerical weakness was at the best ratio it was ever going to be, the British would be reinforcing much faster than he ever could, he had to catch them right then, because in a couple months those transfers would be complete; and the British have prepared fresh divisions at home which either are going to Torch, or to Egypt
7. Wholesale conversion of the 8th army to Sherman tanks is literally in the pipeline, and while his panzer 3's and 4s where competitive with most things in the desert up to that point, the Sherman is the end of the road, since the number of long 75 panzer 4's Rommel received by November is measured in SINGLE digits

He has 8-12 weeks to inflict major defeat and achieve whatever hes going to achieve, then it's all over, no POD in may even me giving him bir hakeim and having kesselring fold to his need for reinforcements changes anything of the above; those are iron failures in the future that are unavoidable without intervention of extra terrestrials
Very true. By 1942, the cake was pretty much baked. With the US in the war and committed to aggressive participation, the disparity in manpower and productive resources was so overwhelming that it was just a matter of time. That's why I find 1940 scenarios somewhat more interesting because they may have the potential to change long run outcomes. Your TL is very creative and well focused but the only plausible effect is delaying the inevitable.
 
5. His success, would (and did) trigger the British to dispose of Ritchie and Smith, and the balance of the British command pool where more competent and decisive, and didn't fall for his traps; literally ever. Montgomery beat Rommel like a drum and ran a tight, professional ship, no criticism of Montgomery, revisionist or otherwise should ever miss the forest for the trees, he, and his team smashed all before them with nothing like the losses to their own side of their predecessors. As much as Rommel was saddled with bad orders from Berlin and Rome and a hopeless strategic situation, Montgomery plainly and completely outgeneraled him in every possible way; if Rommel might be an 8/10 as a general looking at the balance of his career; Montgomery was an 11, and it showed in every possible way; Churchill and Brooke did find the right man
Is it fair to say that, in simplified terms, Montgomery was the Ulysses Grant of the North African Campaign?
 

CalBear

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Meade was the Union Commander who managed to stop Lee cold.

Full props for that.

He failed, however, to pursue and obliterate the Confederates, allowing them to fight on. Yes he had a battered Army, so did Lee, and less was in far worse shape and trapped against a river. Yes, Meade would have taken significant losses. He would also likely have ended the Civil War by the end of 1863, especially combined with Grant's capture of Vickburg on July 4th, 1863.

The same can be said for Montgomery post 2nd El Alamein. Major victory, failed to press it to the limit. Yes, it rained, rained on the Germans too. Yes, it would have increased his losses, would also have led to the final defeat of the Axis in Africa at least two, maybe three months earlier. North Africa wasn't going to come close to winning the War, so the simile doesn't match exactly, but it is still a reasonable comparative.

Grant would have chased Lee until whatever was left of his army made it back to Peterburg, assuming any of them made it. Once Grant got a twist on his enemy he stayed on them, non-stop until they broke. No one ever accused Montgomery of that.
 
Meade was the Union Commander who managed to stop Lee cold.

Full props for that.

He failed, however, to pursue and obliterate the Confederates, allowing them to fight on. Yes he had a battered Army, so did Lee, and less was in far worse shape and trapped against a river. Yes, Meade would have taken significant losses. He would also likely have ended the Civil War by the end of 1863, especially combined with Grant's capture of Vickburg on July 4th, 1863.

The same can be said for Montgomery post 2nd El Alamein. Major victory, failed to press it to the limit. Yes, it rained, rained on the Germans too. Yes, it would have increased his losses, would also have led to the final defeat of the Axis in Africa at least two, maybe three months earlier. North Africa wasn't going to come close to winning the War, so the simile doesn't match exactly, but it is still a reasonable comparative.

Grant would have chased Lee until whatever was left of his army made it back to Peterburg, assuming any of them made it. Once Grant got a twist on his enemy he stayed on them, non-stop until they broke. No one ever accused Montgomery of that.
Montgomery had inherited a situation where the UK was teetering into a manpower crisis.
Montgomery said:
...It is becoming increasingly difficult to keep this large Army up to strength in men and material; in fact, we cannot do so; we shall be able to do so far less when this coming battle is over... When casualties occur we have to combine two units into one; this system of linked units is not very satisfactory... At present, I have many formations below strength in men and some with only 50 per cent strength in transport; every one is short of something...
- Montgomery writing about future problems shortly before second El Alamein, according to the Nigel Hamilton biography (Chapter: 'A Killing Match', Monty: The Making of a General 1887-1942, 1984 coronet (paperback) edition)

I don't know if that was Meade's situation, but Montgomery was looking at having to disband formations in 1942 with the fighting still taking place in North Africa, to keep others up to strength.
 
11

cardcarrier

Banned
Chapter 11

06-03-42 23:59 hrs British 8th army and Middle East HQ Cairo Egypt Reporting back to American President Roosevelt and Joint Chiefs of Staff; Colonel Bonner Fellers, American military attache to MEGHQ

Urgent updates:

Briefings are off schedule due to chaotic nature of the fighting in Libya and high obligations on GHQ staff, will report 2-3 times a day as necessary or ordered
We are frequently being ejected from GHQ briefings it is becoming difficult to provide clear picture to USA chain of command, GHQ is now not honoring "full access", request review by senior officers or members of government as appropriate
Our staff has taken on significant additional workload, per previous report, our ability to provide clear picture is impacted, we are requesting additional staff officers be deployed to Egypt to our command as soon as possible
General Klooper, who earlier yesterday said he was holding out as best possible changed position late last night and has sought terms with the Axis pointing to hopeless strategic situation and low quantities of ammunition on hand, and wanting to spare the troops further heavy air attacks
TOBRUK FORTRESS AND GARRISON ARE LOST
GHQ staff officers will not admit on record how many men lost in Tobruk, our only information on this was disclosures yesterday by South African staffers off the record of 20-25 thousand men; inclusive of rear area and Royal Navy personel
Unknown amount of supplies and vehicles may be captured by the Axis in the Tobruk fortress
Auchinlek and Ritchie are deeply affected by loss of Tobruk
Furious exchanges coming from London over loss of Tobruk
General Smith admits that collapse of Tobruk frees up axis formations to apply additional pressure against invested troops at Knightsbridge defensive boxes and at Gazala
We have an observer with the 29th Indian infantry Brigade watching their assault on Belhamed area will report back on this as available
Desert Air Force staff officers advise with collapse of Tobruk, heavy air attack pressure can be brought against Knightsbridge and Gazala troops
Royal Navy Staff officers will not confirm on or off record how operable the port is at Tobruk
Royal Navy Staff officers will not confirm on or off record what potential prospects are of axis convoys going direct from Crete to Tobruk
Royal Navy Staff officers advise loss of Tobruk has grave implications for Operation Vigorous, and that the operation may be modified, postponed or cancelled; they advise Vigorous is being reevaluated in London
Royal Navy staff officers now say on record that Rommel will invade Egypt
Royal Navy staff officers present their red lines; demolition red line of Alexandria fleet anchorage has approval from London, Alexandria fleet evacuation red line plans have approval from London; Alexandria scorched earth operations are still being hotly debated in GHQ, between the services and London. No representatives of the Egyptian government or army are involved in scorched earth discussions; scorched earth plan is planning under operation rapier
Royal Navy staff officers advise they will cancel all repair work on ships, once Rommel crosses border into Egypt, some ships under repair will be used as blocking ships to deny the harbor to the axis
Desert Airforce staff officers present updates on their red lines about moving or relocating certain fields along possible axis routes of advance into Egypt. They advise airfields at Sidi Rezegh and along coastal road at frontier are already prepared for evacuation in the event Rommel drives his army east to invade Egypt
Desert Airforce staff officers advise that, because of close combat; and Rommel using many captured vehicles, that is very difficult to launch close support bombing missions and ground troops due to disrupted communications and chaotic combat situation haven't been able to guide their strikes at a high level of operational skill
Desert Airforce staff officers advise privately that they believe they bombed their own men at Tobruk in some instances
Desert Airforce advises they are having grave difficulty conducting photo recon flights west of Tobruk
Desert Airforce staff officers confirm large number of transport planes have gone in and out of Gambut area, which represent new/supernumerary formations identified in this area
164th German division is now identified in Gambut/Belhamed area; based on previous intelligence, this was known to be part of the Crete Garrison; see official British rating on this formation
German parachute infantry are identified in Gambut/Belhamed area; this unit is identified as 2nd. See official British rating on this formation
Desert airforce advises that with loss of Tobruk they will shift operations to bomb Gambut area to disrupt further axis reinforcements
Desert airforce staff officers advise Rommel has received at least 4000 reinforcements at Gambut
Desert airforce advises heavy consumption of drop tanks and much fatigue to pilots trying to operate at Tobruk
Desert airforce advises axis sortie tempo is very high and that they are likely experiencing bouts of pilot fatigue also
Troops at attempting to withdraw from Gazala are heavily engaged with Axis infantry and tanks
Gazala troops are under heavy air attack, especially 2nd half of the day
Italian infantry divisions are assaulting Gazala troops and forcing them into close envelopment with troops in their rear along paths from Arcoma and Sidi Muftah
Gazala troops are being subjected to numerous artillery barrages
General Smith advises victorious formations from Tobruk assault may reinforce Axis presence in rear areas of Gazala troops
Desert Air Force staff officers privately advise that condition of Gazala troops is hopeless and that they where caught badly by late approval for freeborn, and that the combination of pending orders for freeborn, and Rommel disrupting the main army supply lines has left the troops badly prepared to withstand a fullscale assault
GHQ staff officers privately advise their previous optimism about being able to withstand attacks on Gazala troops was likely in error due to loss of air superiority
Royal Navy staff officers privately advise that situation for troops at Gazala is hopeless, and project them, particularly as news of collapse at Tobruk spreads to be in danger of imminent collapse
Knightsbridge troops are burdened with many wounded
Knightsbridge troops are in close envelopment with axis troops
Knightsbridge troops are low on fuel and ammunition
Knightsbridge troops cannot reach the border without relief and resupply from the outside
GHQ, Desert Airforce and Royal Navy staff officers all say off record situation at Knightsbridge hopeless
General Ritchie received request from Knightsbridge force commander for instructions regarding scuttling of remaining equipment
General Ritchie received request from Knightsbridge force commander for authority to surrender command if troops cannot relieved
Desert Airforce staff officers advise there is little ability to provide fighter cover over the troops at Knightsbridge
Atmosphere and attitude in GHQ is noticeably impacted; collapse of Tobruk per a member of my staff already leaking in the streets and alleys of Cairo
GHQ staff officers successfully prevail on Auchinlek to allow 4 hour sleeping rotations to address above
Auchinlek was only able to sleep briefly before being woken with news of the Tobruk collapse; GHQ staff are openly prevailing on him and Ritchie to rotate to some rest
Rumors of relief of members or all of GHQ are greatly escalated today
GHQ staff officers confirm that only known unsecured dump of axis munitions was at El Adem, which they regard as lost to Rommel; a staff inquiry will be launched after the crisis is over as to how this happened
GHQ staff officers are being interviewed for the security sweep; will advise if news comes of this, our staff is of the opinion that there are operational leaks in Egypt
Cairo local security commander prepared red line of Mersah Matruh for Marshal law and sweeping security control of the city; including bars and clubs; Egyptian Army and Government are not involved in this matter, and it is intended to be all handled by British/Commonwealth troopers
Auchinlek and Ritchie ordering emergency construction of defensive lines in Egypt as soon as additional troops from their deeper areas can be deployed
Auchinlek requests via London urgent USA air and ground forces and staffs; we HIGHLY recommend if USA forces deployed to Egypt that they have separate army and supply commands
Auchinlek reports favorable discussions between London and Washington and that air force staff officers will be ordered to Egypt, we will await USA command instructions regarding this matter
GHQ staff officers suggest planning double evacuations to the east and south from Alexandria in the event Rommel reaches the red line; Smith shouts them down and removes us from the building
Auchinlek presses heavily on the navy to move up unit transfers from his deep areas and replacements coming in to Suez; Royal Navy staff officers are burdened by the possible evacuation and that Vigorous hasn't been canceled yet and give him great resistance to his requests and appeal to their own chain of command and back to London to go around him
Feud over canal zone defensive assets is finally resolved, fighter squadrons can be redeployed to frontier fields; guns search lights and security troops are to remain
Royal Navy staff officers are furious over diversion of air cover in the canal zone and threaten to close the canal to daytime traffic if it cannot be shielded from air attacks
Ritchie and Smith oppose the Navy vigorously citing very limited raids from Crete onto the canal area
Royal Navy staff officers privately advise that if operation vigorous is canceled that the odds of Malta being able to survive until August are very grave, even if the axis do not invade
Royal Navy staff officers privately advise that if operation vigorous is cancelled that Malta will have to begin a wretching food rationing regime
Royal Navy staff officers privately advise they are performing staff studies regarding an evacuation of Malta or surrendering it to Italy to save the civilian population if the food situation cannot be resolved
Royal Navy staff officers privately advise that loss of Malta will improve the security of the PAA supply lines to western Libya and that this may have far reaching negative consequences on the battlefield
Royal Navy and Desert Airforce staff officers privately advise that they consider the 8th army to be in the process of catastrophic defeat
South African staff officers have frequent direct confrontation and outbursts with Smith, they are frequently in contact now with their own government pressing for them to force London to immediately relieve Smith and Ritchie
GHQ advises new or supernumerary German troops arriving at Tripoli and Bengahzi, this is being investigated

Will provide personal thoughts in next update

End Transmission
 
Nice work.
I wonder how long it will take the Arabs to find the drop tanks and start making stuff from them and selling them to both sides.
Or even selling the drops tanks back to the British.
Looks like Rommel will be getting supplied direct from Tobruk.
 
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We are getting to the point where the British start used amphetamines for the troops and pilots etc.
The Germans have been using something like that from the start in North Africa.
 
11.1

cardcarrier

Banned
Chapter 11.1

06-03-42 23:59 hrs British 8th army and Middle East HQ Cairo Egypt Reporting back to American President Roosevelt and Joint Chiefs of Staff; Colonel Bonner Fellers, American military attache to MEGHQ

Urgent update; personal observations only:

Loss of Tobruk, garrison and possible undestroyed military equipment is very grave
No officer will go on the record as to how much fuel supplies in best or worst case may have been lost to Rommel
Based on rapid Royal Navy plan evolvement of their red lines, our staff presumes their staff feels Rommel has at least enough fuel to reach Mesah Matruh
The above applies to Desert Air Force Red line planning
Major Oswald who is well versed in fuel consumption of armored vehicles is attempting to prepare best case, middle case and worst case scenarios of Rommel's fuel radius on an assumed basis that he has captured 40 percent of British fuel stocks in Libya; A GHQ officer is privately working with us on this; but the 40 percent number is a middle case assumption in and of itself and even interviews with wounded or evacuated officers, coupled with the poor communications with the front, haven't given a clear picture on this
Oswald has been revising his radius views higher the last 36 hours, because previously he had presumed that the British would withdraw some forces in tact from Libya to fight the invasion; now that catastrophic defeat is likely, Oswald advises that Rommel would potentially be able to use the coastal highway which would lessen the amount of fuel he needs to reach deep into Egypt; as maneuvering to the south consumes much fuel
I had a conversation with Auchinlek about where he intends to stand in Egypt; he advises plans are evolving for this because his rear areas troops are still transferring to Egypt, he is counting on his New Zealand Australian and Indian divisions to be able to block Rommel once they are formed up; although he is not committed yet as to where that might be
Privately GHQ staff officers advise that Auchinlek has decided to relieve Ritchie and take over the remaining elements of the 8th army and the defense of Egypt himself. They advise that he will wait until the Gazala and Knightsbridge pockets surrender to make the move, so that blame for the catastrophic defeat can be pinned mainly on Ritchie; Ritchie and Auchinlek are close, rumor is London has forced Auchinlek's hand on this issue
For the moment there are no extra rumors on the relief of Smith, beyond rumors that ALL GHQ officers will be relieved
South African Staff officers are increasingly alternating between despondent and belligerent towards Smith and British officers over the loss of their divisions. They are fermenting considerable political pressure onto GHQ and London that dominates the atmosphere, well into the streets, bars and clubs of Cairo
South African working relationship with Smith is gravely impaired, and increasingly insubordinate
Morale and Discipline issues are a grave concern in the 8th army and being pointed too as factors in troops surrendering; we are removed from GHQ whenever these matters are discussed, which is more frequent
Our staff is of the belief that discipline and morale problems will escalate once the Tobruk and other unfolding defeats are passed down the grapevine
Privately GHQ staff officers advise they have significant desertion issue in troops transferring through Egypt, our staff is trying to quietly assess this
We are fully certain that Rommel has tank superiority in Libya regardless of refusal to accept this on the part of Smith or Auchinlek
Once the boxes at Knightsbridge and Gazala are fully consumed, it is possible that the Panzer Army Africa might have infantry parity with remaining British forces in Egypt; we cannot fully qualify this statement because intelligence does not have a clear grasp of Rommel's losses to date or the exact scale of reinforcements he is receiving; we are unsure if Rommel can or would deploy all of his infantry units forward into Egypt or just utilize his motorized divisions or some combination. This is likely dependent on the scale of trucking and fuel he has captured
I asked a General Smith if Rommel drove rapidly to Mersah Matruh, if he would be capable of using the rail line the British have built back from Belhamed; this met with a wall of silence and my being escorted from the room
The desert air force and is planning photo recon missions over Tobruk at first light, with follow up bombing missions if they see the harbor is not in a demolished state
Royal Navy staff officers are privately nervous about their ability to interdict Rommel's supply lines if Tobruk is functioning, they advise it is only 250 miles strait steam from Crete to Tobruk and that the Axis would be able to escort ships over the distance with fighter aircraft if they can land at Gambut to refuel and return back to Crete; they warn if the fleet has to evacuate, and the Axis set up convoy systems which largely bypass sailing past Malta, going Crete to Tobruk, that this would have grave implications across the battlefield; they are eager and pressing for air recon photos and are also dispatching two submarines to perform a recon of the port area
GHQ staff mood which had been progressively dour, was improved by announcement of USA Air expeditionary units being approved for Egypt and approval of advance deployment staff officers
GHQ staff privately advise they pray for rapid approval of USA ground troops
General Smith is inquiring with our staff every 4 hours about speeding up shipments of replacement tanks
General Smith will not provide number of running tanks inside or outside of pockets; 29th brigade is supported by 55 tanks at the moment on the frontier; some others have been straggling over the border the last few days whom were defeated in the south last week, the rest where likely pushed into the Tobruk pocket, the Knightsbridge pocket or the Gazala pocket or lost in the endless desert. Our middle case estimate is that Auchinlek has 100-160 tanks which are not in the surrounded units, although this number is speculative at this time; 8th army repair work shops at El Amyrid Egypt are swamped above and beyond capacity; there is considerable backlog in unit repair; loss of divisional workshops has grave strategic impact on the 8th army in the longer term; for it's recovery from this defeat
Auchinlek relieving Ritchie, whilst welcome in much of the staff and army applies additional pressure to Auchinlek whom has already gone many days with reduced or no sleep; and any opportunity for him to rest to restore his nerve and composure requires delegating to Smith whom is having confrontations with many staff officers, and leaving more problems for Auchinlek than he went to sleep with
There is immense pressure being applied by the other services up their chains of command to relieve smith
South African staff officers and other service officers have requested ICGS officers come to Egypt immediately to review situation first hand
Auchinlek admits failure causing grave issues in London, Smith more openly blames London for fall of Tobruk saying their refusal to approve free born doomed the garrison. Our staff cannot make such a determination because we are not seeing cables from London, but we are of the opinion that when it became known that Gott's HQ had operating plans for Freeborn on its command post which could possibly have been lost to the axis, this should have triggered a major strategic re-evaluation of the 8th army's ability to evacuate in the face of having disrupted air support, or in simpler terms they should have changed and expedited their retreat once Rommel got into the supply zone
This disclosure about large axis ammunition dumps just laying about at El Adem is simply shocking; it is near certain that many officers will and should face court martial over this matter, to leave large quantities of captured enemy munitions 2 days marching time from the front lines for well over 4 months, when the area has been a battlefield 4 times over is beyond our staff's comprehension; this oversite allowed Rommel's troops to restock their ammunition stores deep in the British rear and fend off all their counter attacks; this beyond the failure to properly coordinate supporting arms put the army in grave strategic jeopardy
Considering disclosures off the record by Desert air force and GHQ we now regard defeat as catastrophic, with both boxes having very limited ability to resist axis encirclement and aircraft
Our middle case current estimate on 8th army losses once the two boxes are consumed is 75-80 thousand men; it is wildly impossible to get any GHQ officer to objectively evaluate our numbers on this yet, the wound is too wide open for them, we will keep working on this; we do not have our middle case number prepared yet for loss of equipment but are coming close to having a first estimate
The staff officer whom had been giving us "dunkirk" now says "singapore" so there is some rationalization occurring that not just equipment is being lost, but the divisions themselves will be lost
The variety of privately disclosed issues for Malta that the army defeat is bringing forward are deeply troubling, the Naval Attache staff is going to prepare their own evaluations but we will continue to pass on those items we here that give picture to USA chain of command
The issue of using scorch earth tactics on Alexandria is deeply controversial inside GHQ and among all the branches and London itself; there are political implications, but privately GHQ officers advise that the Egyptian population and it's army whom have been helping the 8th army with so many of it's difficult labors of moving men to the front would take major issue with laying waste to the city and the delta to deny it to the Germans. They advise there are intelligence reports about of axis sympathizers inside the Egyptian Army who could make that issue very difficult for British presence in Egypt; especially if Rommel is able to invade and give them support

End Transmission
 

cardcarrier

Banned
plz dont read too much into naval issues; especially malta, this is fog of war panic at the crisis and worst case scenario planning
 
Poor Fellers His reports sound more and more like "I don't really know and neither does anyone else, so I'm just guessing." Keep going with this timeline, I like the frequent updates.
 
Royal Navy staff officers present their red lines; demolition red line of Alexandria fleet anchorage has approval from London, Alexandria fleet evacuation red line plans have approval from London; Alexandria scorched earth operations are still being hotly debated in GHQ, between the services and London. No representatives of the Egyptian government or army are involved in scorched earth discussions; scorched earth plan is planning under operation rapier
Royal Navy staff officers advise they will cancel all repair work on ships, once Rommel crosses border into Egypt,
The Egyptian border is over 300 miles from Alexandria; the navy appear to be panicking.

Gazala troops are under heavy air attack, especially 2nd half of the day
Italian infantry divisions are assaulting Gazala troops and forcing them into close envelopment with troops in their rear along paths from Arcoma and Sidi Muftah
Gazala troops are being subjected to numerous artillery barrages
GHQ staff officers privately advise their previous optimism about being able to withstand attacks on Gazala troops was likely in error due to loss of air superiority
Royal Navy staff officers privately advise that situation for troops at Gazala is hopeless, and project them, particularly as news of collapse at
OTL the 50th Division escaped from the Gazala line by attacking west through the Italian defensive positions, travelling south beyond Bir Hacheim before turning east.
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More thumbs.

Desert Airforce staff officers advise that, because of close combat; and Rommel using many captured vehicles, that is very difficult to launch close support bombing missions
Remember the same applies to the Luftwaffe.
 
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