Place In the Sun: What If Italy Joined the Central Powers? (1.0)

[Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth]

What a series of responses! Thank you lads!

I dunno if the Brits are smart enough to make the right concessions, tbh. Or rather, if they can see past their own racism enough too.

Nah, they can't. This is only a few decades removed from good old Cecil Rhodes, and only 15 years from concentration camps in South Africa... the idea of treating the natives as equals really wouldn't be accepted in Whitehall.

Especially since at this point, well, the concessions they'd have to make might not work.

Probably not, no. The British might be able to salvage their rule, but popular opinion is too far gone.

And let's not get into the Irish. Ireland is going to be free much like India and there will be a lot of ethnic tension that surpasses the Troubles. Anglo-Irish Presbyterians are going to still carve up all of Ulster as a constituent of the United Kingdom with their own military force to counter the Irish Republicans.

The communist revolution in France is obviously going to fail since we voted in favor of Action Francaise turning the country into an Italy-style dictatorship with a puppet king and a powerful chancellor or Chef in charge. Russia might go communist, retain the Tsar (even if he is a figurehead), or become a Kerensky-style democratic republic. Britain is going to face a lot of instability and Hungary might not last long.

Ah b'Jeezus, Ireland.
The place is under martial law- and has been since the Easter Rising. While I don't have detailed plans, it might simply be easier for the more cash-and-manpower stripped British to pull out and fund Anglo-Presbyterian insurgency. In a previous update, I hinted that Territorial formations had been sent to Ireland; this remains true.
Ireland will be the subject of the update after next.

France? Well, I respect the poll but reserve authorial fiat. The French story will be one with lots of twists and turns, don't worry.
The Russian Revolution will come in... 1918? 1919? I need to take a look and do some research to see how having Tsar Michael and Georgi Lvov running a quasi-stable regime would influence things. But it will come, no worries!
Hungary is going to get Sturmtruppen right where it hurts in 1918... revenge for Vienna.

I would be cautious about this. Major boom and bust cycles were part and parcel of American industrial capitalism for decades before Black Thursday, and the worsening state of the Great Depression depended on factors that, though debated, aren't likely to change due to being driven by existing government values.

Economic circumstances - the loss of the war loans, the chaos in France, and the economic primacy of Germany in Europe - should help prevent the 20s bubble from getting as big as it did. The international debt structure contributed heavily to the bubble and the Depression, and that's now out of the picture. Lack of war participation means the economy is starting from a lower base when it comes to agricultural demand and industrial supply. But the American banking system is still horribly under-regulated and particularly in the rural areas badly over-leveraged with risky loans, something that had been ongoing since the 1880s. The Federal banking system is still likely to end up run by economists obsessed with price stability over banking stability. The Dust Bowl conditions were dependent too on factors that precede the POD. And if anything there's more incentive for some bubbles like Florida real estate, with French Riviera cut off pretty much until the end of the ongoing civil unrest.

What I'm saying is that the Roaring 20s won't be roaring quite as hard. But I'd still expect a major recession/outright depression at some point and with the state the American banking industry is in that's going to send the entire economy into a tailspin as soon as it hits, one that could very well end up as bad as the Great Depression was IOTL. The one bright spot is that it won't have nearly as many international impacts due to Europe generally being far more decoupled from the American economy.

And then you start getting into the more heterodox explanations...

Thanks for the detailed response- I'm no economist so it all helps, believe me!
No 20s bubble? I see. Price stability > banking stability? Copy. A small, local bubble in Florida as holidaymakers switch from Nice to Miami? Why not, sounds fun!
We're going to have a Dust Bowl- no reason that would be butterflied; perhaps that could serve as the impetus for a crash in the late '30s. There's some other stuff I've got planned for America in that period which will impact this, but no spoilers.
How do you think Charles Evans Hughes would influence economic policy?
Heterodox explanations? Tell me more... I'll bet some of it's amusing.

Jews are another topic to discuss regarding their status in the world of Place in the Sun. Zionism (aka Jewish nationalism) was already a well-established phenomenon since the 1880s when pogroms in the Russian Empire caused millions of Jews to emigrate to the United States and become an influential ethnic group there. The Rothschilds and Christian backers such as William Blackstone were pushing for a Jewish state in what was then Palestine which saw some Jewish emigration. Since the Central Powers were the victors of World War I, the Balfour Declaration definitely doesn't exist and the Ottomans still control all of OTL's Israel. But Zionist organizations like the Anti-Defamation League and the World Jewish Committee will still push for a Jewish homeland in the Middle East whether the Ottoman Empire/Turkey likes it or not.

All great points. If the Ottoman Empire survives and liberalises, I imagine the regime will eventually welcome Jewish immigration as a means of attracting investment. If the regime collapses... it's anybody's guess.
An independent Israel is unlikely though, either way.
And sadly, the "Jewish Bankers Control The World" trope won't be butterflied...

Yeah, I see so many parallels between Ireland and India right now. As expected Britain can and will hold India through force of arms. But the moment those troops are needed elsewhere...

That's exactly Britain's problem. When the Irish start chucking explosive objects, they have to be put down- which is an opportune moment for India to try its luck, and then South Africa makes a grab for Lesotho, and round we go...

Well I hope Kerala will be safe, but considering how its part of the southwestern most part of the peninsula, it would probably the site of a potential British invasion.

Though @Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth , what do you plan for the various Indian royal families? They still had some power after all. While in modern India they lost their titles, they still have their wealth and have a lot of influence behind the scenes as part of the local elites.

Alright, @Basileus_Komnenos , I'll do you a favour.
By the power of authorial fiat, I, Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth, declare that any and all ancestors of Basileus_Kommnenos are safe in the Place In the Sun universe, regardless of what happens in Kerala! *bangs gavel*
The Indian royal families will be put back on their thrones as rewards for cooperating with the British... I have ideas as to what India will look like post-independence, and as a rough idea I'd say most get to keep their titles.

I see compromise on the horizon. Specifically the kind of compromise that satisfies no one

Of course- that's the kind that makes for good reading!

Also: How many of those British Garrison troops in India are Irish?
Irish Troops in India defecting to the locals might sound rather outlandish. However what if we're not talking about that happening right after an uprising in Ireland, but 99,99% of them staying loyal once news of the uprising reaches India at first. Yet the English treating them more and more as unreliable, untrustworthy, gotta keep and eye on them with more and more bullying, loyalty checks, somehow them always being last for being issued weapons and ammo? The Viceroy seems to be paranoid enough to back them into a corner.

Ooh, Irishmen in India? I'd not given the issue any thought but it's certainly a possibility. We'll have to see- thanks for suggesting that!

Even then, India is going to be free from the British in the next decade or two. Same thing with Ireland. The ethnic tensions and manpower are just too much for the empire to handle.

Most likely, yes.

Thanks to everyone for liking/commenting!

 

[Leonidas]

I may be out of the loop here, what's this about Action Francaise and the restoration of the monarchy? France was a republic at this point in time, right? I'm not an expert in 20th century French politics, but I don't really see why that would happen after the revolution they're experiencing now. Certainly a fascinating concept either way, of course.

 

[Rivercat893]

I may be out of the loop here, what's this about Action Francaise and the restoration of the monarchy? France was a republic at this point in time, right? I'm not an expert in 20th century French politics, but I don't really see why that would happen after the revolution they're experiencing now. Certainly a fascinating concept either way, of course.

Action Francaise is a very right-wing group from France that seeks the restoration of the Orleanist monarchy. In the early to mid 20th century, they were fairly popular with their own newspaper, youth branch, and social club. Their most famous leader was Charles Maurras, the chief ideologue of French Integralism which is basically Catholic theocracy mixed with Fascism and he was also rather anti-Semitic. With France being the biggest loser in TTL's World War I and the subsequent communist revolution by the Sorealinists, AF is likely to capitalize on this opportunity to push for the Bourbons to return to power and prove how weak the republic really is.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

Alright, @Basileus_Komnenos , I'll do you a favour.
By the power of authorial fiat, I, Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth, declare that any and all ancestors of Basileus_Kommnenos are safe in the Place In the Sun universe, regardless of what happens in Kerala! *bangs gavel*

Thanks!
Though this is certainly gonna be fun.

The Indian royal families will be put back on their thrones as rewards for cooperating with the British... I have ideas as to what India will look like post-independence, and as a rough idea I'd say most get to keep their titles.

I'm not exactly sure if their position is quite viable in the circumstances. The Princely States were essentially all independent states with varying populations and resources. I think the best analogue is the HRE. Though the British hold the title as Emperor of India ruling all these monarchs.

The Congress of India was in many ways parallels the 1848 Frankfurt Congress. A lot the barriers to German unification was the various German princes and Kings who didn't want to lose their own independence and power in a united state. There was however the chance of a larger power backing unification through peaceful means or military force such as Prussia/Austria. India however didn't really have this. The chance for something like a Mughal Restoration was dashed after the Sepoy Revolt with the dynasty extinct (I believe Badur Shah's sons were executed for their role in the rebellion).

The other Indian royals/Princes weren't very viewed favorably by the other Indian nationalist as they saw them as collaborators with the British. The Congress was only really left with the Republican pathways as it "cut the Gordian Knot" to all these issues. By abolishing their titles, the Congress was free to create a united India from the ground up.

Though you could maybe see an alternate congress elect an "Indian Emperor" if one of the other major princes seeing where the wind blowing, begins backing Indian nationalism. Though this is quite hard to pull off, but not totally implausible. After all stranger things have happened in history. German unification which at the time seemed like an impossibility to contemporaries especially after the collapse of the Frankfurt Congress now is viewed as some sort of inevitable course in history.

This could also have issues as there'd be issues as to who would be Emperor. The Hindu Nationalists would be pissed at the idea of a Muslim ruler and the Muslim Nationalists in India like Jinnah would probably not want to be under a Hindu ruler. Then there's the other added issue of the various minorities such as Christians, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, etc. that would take issue with this type of arrangement as well. So while the situation here in a potential monarchist India would be quite shaky, if it can somehow salvage it, it could work.

Then again another potential solution would be India being made autonomous as part of an earlier Commonwealth, but with the looming British invasion, I don't see this as a likely outcome.

In some ways the Republican system was inspired by the US which was sought as a means to create a Pan-Indian state regardless of ethnicity and religion. At this time Indian Nationalism was starting to kick off among the increasingly conscious population, so the invasion might trigger a larger resistance.

Action Francaise is a very right-wing group from France that seeks the restoration of the Orleanist monarchy. In the early to mid 20th century, they were fairly popular with their own newspaper, youth branch, and social club. Their most famous leader was Charles Maurras, the chief ideologue of French Integralism which is basically Catholic theocracy mixed with Fascism and he was also rather anti-Semitic. With France being the biggest loser in TTL's World War I and the subsequent communist revolution by the Sorealinists, AF is likely to capitalize on this opportunity to push for the Bourbons to return to power and prove how weak the republic really is.

Would they really restore the Bourbons here? The main French line is extinct, and with Action Francaise being French nationalists, the Orleanists were Frenchmen at least. Though I think its likely that the Orleanists would probably be able to overthrow the Third Republic with many moderates joining due to fears of a Communist takeover. Though as for French Integralism, I don't think it would really be fascism in the same manner as the Third Reich or even Mussolini's Italy.It might end up more like a Francoist style dictatorship since France here doesn't really have the means to really go toe to toe with the Germans in the same manner that the Third Reich did with the Allies in otl.

 

[Rivercat893]

Thanks!
Though this is certainly gonna be fun.


I'm not exactly sure if their position is quite viable in the circumstances. The Princely States were essentially all independent states with varying populations and resources. I think the best analogue is the HRE. Though the British hold the title as Emperor of India ruling all these monarchs.

The Congress of India was in many ways parallels the 1848 Frankfurt Congress. A lot the barriers to German unification was the various German princes and Kings who didn't want to lose their own independence and power in a united state. There was however the chance of a larger power backing unification through peaceful means or military force such as Prussia/Austria. India however didn't really have this. The chance for something like a Mughal Restoration was dashed after the Sepoy Revolt with the dynasty extinct (I believe Badur Shah's sons were executed for their role in the rebellion).

The other Indian royals/Princes weren't very viewed favorably by the other Indian nationalist as they saw them as collaborators with the British. The Congress was only really left with the Republican pathways as it "cut the Gordian Knot" to all these issues. By abolishing their titles, the Congress was free to create a united India from the ground up.

Though you could maybe see an alternate congress elect an "Indian Emperor" if one of the other major princes seeing where the wind blowing, begins backing Indian nationalism. Though this is quite hard to pull off, but not totally implausible. After all stranger things have happened in history. German unification which at the time seemed like an impossibility to contemporaries especially after the collapse of the Frankfurt Congress now is viewed as some sort of inevitable course in history.

This could also have issues as there'd be issues as to who would be Emperor. The Hindu Nationalists would be pissed at the idea of a Muslim ruler and the Muslim Nationalists in India like Jinnah would probably not want to be under a Hindu ruler. Then there's the other added issue of the various minorities such as Christians, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, etc. that would take issue with this type of arrangement as well. So while the situation here in a potential monarchist India would be quite shaky, if it can somehow salvage it, it could work.

Then again another potential solution would be India being made autonomous as part of an earlier Commonwealth, but with the looming British invasion, I don't see this as a likely outcome.

In some ways the Republican system was inspired by the US which was sought as a means to create a Pan-Indian state regardless of ethnicity and religion. At this time Indian Nationalism was starting to kick off among the increasingly conscious population, so the invasion might trigger a larger resistance.


Would they really restore the Bourbons here? The main French line is extinct, and with Action Francaise being French nationalists, the Orleanists were Frenchmen at least. Though I think its likely that the Orleanists would probably be able to overthrow the Third Republic with many moderates joining due to fears of a Communist takeover. Though as for French Integralism, I don't think it would really be fascism in the same manner as the Third Reich or even Mussolini's Italy.It might end up more like a Francoist style dictatorship since France here doesn't really have the means to really go toe to toe with the Germans in the same manner that the Third Reich did with the Allies in otl.

Well obviously as you pointed out here, Integralist France is a mashup of Fascist Italy and Falangist Spain. And I know that the Orleanists will eventually come to power once more and forced to abdicate in TTL's Second World War.

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth]

Well obviously, Integralist France is a mashup of Fascist Italy and Falangist Spain. And I know that the Orleanists will eventually come to power once more and forced to abdicate in TTL's Second World War.

We shall have to see... Integralist France is still a long way off...

 

[Rivercat893]

We shall have to see... Integralist France is still a long way off...

There might even be a dash of Nazi Germany thrown in for the Integralists with possible pogroms against Jews (one of their primary targets especially after the Dreyfus affair), Bretons (culturally distinct from the French nation), political dissidents and homosexuals. Who knows what might happen with Corsicans, on one hand they are a non-French ethnic group but their most famous person Napoleon Bonaparte was a military genius (most of the time) and Emperor so they might be spared from the carnage and ethnic cleansing that is to come.

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth]

There might even be a dash of Nazi Germany thrown in for the Integralists with possible pogroms against Jews (one of their primary targets), Bretons (culturally distinct from the French nation), political dissidents and homosexuals.

Accurate on all points: however there will be no Holocaust ITTL. Besides being morally iffy to write a fictitious version of, it's cheap parallelism.
But extreme social conservatism: definitely.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

Well obviously, Integralist France is a mashup of Fascist Italy and Falangist Spain. And I know that the Orleanists will eventually come to power once more and forced to abdicate in TTL's Second World War.

Why would they have to abdicate? I don't think this is an inevitability at all. They could just as easily pull a Juan Carlos and liberalize ushering in a Parliamentary system with the monarchy as heads of state. They might be able to pull a Romania and do a self-coup deposing the regime to appear as heroes "saving the French" from tyrants.

There might even be a dash of Nazi Germany thrown in for the Integralists with possible pogroms against Jews (one of their primary targets), Bretons (culturally distinct from the French nation), political dissidents and homosexuals.

Did Action Francaise have animosity for Bretons?

 

[Rivercat893]

Accurate on all points: however there will be no Holocaust ITTL. Besides being morally iffy to write a fictitious version of, it's cheap parallelism.
But extreme social conservatism: definitely.

Obviously not a Holocaust but pogroms are likely to be sure. I've already brought up the status of Zionism and Jews in the timeline.

Why would they have to abdicate? I don't think this is an inevitability at all. They could just as easily pull a Juan Carlos and liberalize ushering in a Parliamentary system with the monarchy as heads of state. They might be able to pull a Romania and do a self-coup deposing the regime to appear as heroes "saving the French" from tyrants.


Did Action Francaise have animosity for Bretons?

Good point. Also because of historical butterflies, Breton nationalism might become popular and since the BNP (Breton National Party) is openly asking for the creation of an independent Brittany this might be a pain in the ass for Action Francaise and so they could try to suppress the local identity in an attempt to keep France united.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Why would they have to abdicate? I don't think this is an inevitability at all. They could just as easily pull a Juan Carlos and liberalize ushering in a Parliamentary system with the monarchy as heads of state. They might be able to pull a Romania and do a self-coup deposing the regime to appear as heroes "saving the French" from tyrants.


Did Action Francaise have animosity for Bretons?

Are they French or are they British? The latter of which sold France out at Dresden.

 

[Rivercat893]

Are they French or are they British? The latter of which sold France out at Dresden.

Bretons are a Celtic ethnic group from France that speak their own language and have a distinct culture separate from the French. Separatism and nationalism were fairly popular in the mid-20th century but due to the Breton National Party's collaboration with Nazi Germany, this led to the ideology becoming mostly taboo.

 

[Kylia]

Well, by this point, didn't France actually have a pretty low jewish population? So there wouldn't be much chance for a Holocaust. Hell, most of the jewish people killed in the Holocaust (or at least a majority) were from Eastern European countries the Nazis took over rather than German jews (though plenty of German jews were killed too), IIRC, so France could be just as antisemetic as hitler and, assuming they don't take over Germany, would just have less jews to kill.

 

[Rivercat893]

Well, by this point, didn't France actually have a pretty low jewish population? So there wouldn't be much chance for a Holocaust. Hell, most of the jewish people killed in the Holocaust (or at least a majority) were from Eastern European countries the Nazis took over rather than German jews (though plenty of German jews were killed too), IIRC, so France could be just as antisemetic as hitler and, assuming they don't take over Germany, would just have less jews to kill.

OTL's France had a Jewish population in the hundreds of thousands and there were outbursts of anti-Semitism every now and then (see the Dreyfus Affair). While I doubt it will reach Holocaust levels of genocide that doesn't mean there won't be violent perseuction.

 

[Kylia]

OTL's France had a Jewish population in the hundreds of thousands and there were outbursts of anti-Semitism every now and then (see the Dreyfus Affair). While I doubt it will reach Holocaust levels of genocide that doesn't mean there won't be violent perseuction.

Oh, I agree, violent persecution would be a thing, but not holocaust levels was my point.

But I thought the French Jewish population was more in the tens of thousands at this point, for some reason.

 

[CV12Hornet]

Thanks for the detailed response- I'm no economist so it all helps, believe me!
No 20s bubble? I see. Price stability > banking stability? Copy. A small, local bubble in Florida as holidaymakers switch from Nice to Miami? Why not, sounds fun!
We're going to have a Dust Bowl- no reason that would be butterflied; perhaps that could serve as the impetus for a crash in the late '30s. There's some other stuff I've got planned for America in that period which will impact this, but no spoilers.

There'll be bubbles in the 20s; the Florida land boom was hardly the only one. And in general I'd expect a crash to come sooner than the late 1930s simply on the pattern of US business cycles. They suffered two IOTL in rapid succession after World War One in transitioning to a peacetime economy, and World War I starting actually ended an ongoing recession in 1914.

Honestly, without the boom of the Roaring 20s I'd expect one of either the 1923/24 or 1926/27 recessions to bite much harder than they did IOTL. The scary part: the 1926/27 recession was caused by the Ford Motor Company shutting down for six months to switch production from the Model T to the Model A. Gives you an idea of how fragile the economy really was in this time period.

How do you think Charles Evans Hughes would influence economic policy?

Hughes was pro-business and anti-labor, generally. This is not a good thing for preventing the Great Depression, which necessitated sharp, decisive government intervention and considerable labor reforms. As for why...

Heterodox explanations? Tell me more... I'll bet some of it's amusing.

Generally, the Great Depression is believed to have been caused by four major factors: a massive demand shock on both the consumer and investor sides; a contraction of the money supply after the collapse of a large chunk of the banking system; as a result deflation dramatically worsening the debt-riddled, over-leveraged condition of the economy; and general loss of confidence in the economy and financial institutions. Mainstream economists mostly differ in which of these factors was the primary factor, generally split by the Keynesians, who hold to the demand shock explanation, and the modern Miltonists, who hold to the monetary explanation.

As for heterodox explanations...
- The Austrian school held that the easy availability of credit, spurred by government policy promoting such, led to a credit bubble that burst. Frankly, given the debt ratio accrued during the Roaring 20s, the massive bank failures, and how badly deflation damaged the economy, they've probably got a point. Unfortunately, their proposed solution was to be even more contractionary, which IMO would've been a catastrophe.
- The Marxists held that this was an inevitable result of capitalism, naturally.

In general, I highly recommend reading the Wikipedia article on the causes of the Great Depression. There's more information there than I can go over here. I especially recommend looking at the section on productivity shock, that was a concern even contemporary economists and businessmen were trying to address before the Depression.

 

[Rivercat893]

There'll be bubbles in the 20s; the Florida land boom was hardly the only one. And in general I'd expect a crash to come sooner than the late 1930s simply on the pattern of US business cycles. They suffered two IOTL in rapid succession after World War One in transitioning to a peacetime economy, and World War I starting actually ended an ongoing recession in 1914.

Honestly, without the boom of the Roaring 20s I'd expect one of either the 1923/24 or 1926/27 recessions to bite much harder than they did IOTL. The scary part: the 1926/27 recession was caused by the Ford Motor Company shutting down for six months to switch production from the Model T to the Model A. Gives you an idea of how fragile the economy really was in this time period.


Hughes was pro-business and anti-labor, generally. This is not a good thing for preventing the Great Depression, which necessitated sharp, decisive government intervention and considerable labor reforms. As for why...


Generally, the Great Depression is believed to have been caused by four major factors: a massive demand shock on both the consumer and investor sides; a contraction of the money supply after the collapse of a large chunk of the banking system; as a result deflation dramatically worsening the debt-riddled, over-leveraged condition of the economy; and general loss of confidence in the economy and financial institutions. Mainstream economists mostly differ in which of these factors was the primary factor, generally split by the Keynesians, who hold to the demand shock explanation, and the modern Miltonists, who hold to the monetary explanation.

As for heterodox explanations...
- The Austrian school held that the easy availability of credit, spurred by government policy promoting such, led to a credit bubble that burst. Frankly, given the debt ratio accrued during the Roaring 20s, the massive bank failures, and how badly deflation damaged the economy, they've probably got a point. Unfortunately, their proposed solution was to be even more contractionary, which IMO would've been a catastrophe.
- The Marxists held that this was an inevitable result of capitalism, naturally.

In general, I highly recommend reading the Wikipedia article on the causes of the Great Depression. There's more information there than I can go over here. I especially recommend looking at the section on productivity shock, that was a concern even contemporary economists and businessmen were trying to address before the Depression.

Some of those men might be able to prevent a Great Depression level event in this timeline due to the altered circumstances of the 1920s.

 

[Migrant_Coconut]

I'm not exactly sure if their position is quite viable in the circumstances. The Princely States were essentially all independent states with varying populations and resources. I think the best analogue is the HRE. Though the British hold the title as Emperor of India ruling all these monarchs.

The Congress of India was in many ways parallels the 1848 Frankfurt Congress. A lot the barriers to German unification was the various German princes and Kings who didn't want to lose their own independence and power in a united state. There was however the chance of a larger power backing unification through peaceful means or military force such as Prussia/Austria. India however didn't really have this. The chance for something like a Mughal Restoration was dashed after the Sepoy Revolt with the dynasty extinct (I believe Badur Shah's sons were executed for their role in the rebellion).

The other Indian royals/Princes weren't very viewed favorably by the other Indian nationalist as they saw them as collaborators with the British. The Congress was only really left with the Republican pathways as it "cut the Gordian Knot" to all these issues. By abolishing their titles, the Congress was free to create a united India from the ground up.

Though you could maybe see an alternate congress elect an "Indian Emperor" if one of the other major princes seeing where the wind blowing, begins backing Indian nationalism. Though this is quite hard to pull off, but not totally implausible. After all stranger things have happened in history. German unification which at the time seemed like an impossibility to contemporaries especially after the collapse of the Frankfurt Congress now is viewed as some sort of inevitable course in history.

This could also have issues as there'd be issues as to who would be Emperor. The Hindu Nationalists would be pissed at the idea of a Muslim ruler and the Muslim Nationalists in India like Jinnah would probably not want to be under a Hindu ruler. Then there's the other added issue of the various minorities such as Christians, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, etc. that would take issue with this type of arrangement as well. So while the situation here in a potential monarchist India would be quite shaky, if it can somehow salvage it, it could work.

Dumb question: is there any chance of the republicans accepting a separate/higher legislature for the royals, like the House of Lords?

 

[Cregan]

What’s happening in Egypt at the moment? IOTL there was an Egyptian anti-British rebellion around this time. ITTL, with the British defeated and the Ottomans victorious in the Great War, there is an even greater impetus for an anti-British uprising in Egypt.

 

[Quintuplicate]

What a series of responses! Thank you lads!

Nah, they can't. This is only a few decades removed from good old Cecil Rhodes, and only 15 years from concentration camps in South Africa... the idea of treating the natives as equals really wouldn't be accepted in Whitehall.

Probably not, no. The British might be able to salvage their rule, but popular opinion is too far gone.

Ah b'Jeezus, Ireland.
The place is under martial law- and has been since the Easter Rising. While I don't have detailed plans, it might simply be easier for the more cash-and-manpower stripped British to pull out and fund Anglo-Presbyterian insurgency. In a previous update, I hinted that Territorial formations had been sent to Ireland; this remains true.
Ireland will be the subject of the update after next.

France? Well, I respect the poll but reserve authorial fiat. The French story will be one with lots of twists and turns, don't worry.
The Russian Revolution will come in... 1918? 1919? I need to take a look and do some research to see how having Tsar Michael and Georgi Lvov running a quasi-stable regime would influence things. But it will come, no worries!
Hungary is going to get Sturmtruppen right where it hurts in 1918... revenge for Vienna.

Thanks for the detailed response- I'm no economist so it all helps, believe me!
No 20s bubble? I see. Price stability > banking stability? Copy. A small, local bubble in Florida as holidaymakers switch from Nice to Miami? Why not, sounds fun!
We're going to have a Dust Bowl- no reason that would be butterflied; perhaps that could serve as the impetus for a crash in the late '30s. There's some other stuff I've got planned for America in that period which will impact this, but no spoilers.
How do you think Charles Evans Hughes would influence economic policy?
Heterodox explanations? Tell me more... I'll bet some of it's amusing.

All great points. If the Ottoman Empire survives and liberalises, I imagine the regime will eventually welcome Jewish immigration as a means of attracting investment. If the regime collapses... it's anybody's guess.
An independent Israel is unlikely though, either way.
And sadly, the "Jewish Bankers Control The World" trope won't be butterflied...


That's exactly Britain's problem. When the Irish start chucking explosive objects, they have to be put down- which is an opportune moment for India to try its luck, and then South Africa makes a grab for Lesotho, and round we go...

Alright, @Basileus_Komnenos , I'll do you a favour.
By the power of authorial fiat, I, Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth, declare that any and all ancestors of Basileus_Kommnenos are safe in the Place In the Sun universe, regardless of what happens in Kerala! *bangs gavel*
The Indian royal families will be put back on their thrones as rewards for cooperating with the British... I have ideas as to what India will look like post-independence, and as a rough idea I'd say most get to keep their titles.

Of course- that's the kind that makes for good reading!

Ooh, Irishmen in India? I'd not given the issue any thought but it's certainly a possibility. We'll have to see- thanks for suggesting that!

Most likely, yes.

Thanks to everyone for liking/commenting!

The South Africa Act gave South Africa the right to annex Lesotho and Swaziland.