Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Hi guys, thank you for your comments, I think the P-39 question has been answered
Greece was a political decision. It was undertaken because the UK had made a pledge to help the Greeks if attacked. And when the main aim in the end was to demonstrate to both the USA and the elephant in the room, Turkey, that the UK would stand by it's treaties, you could not step away and say " Nah, not going to do that!"
In fact the Italians attacked but the Germens weren't involved. The Greeks were scared of the Germans and thought that too much BritCom forces would trigger a German invasion. That is why from Oct 1940 right up to Feb 41, the BritCom forces were limited to a few squadrons of Aircraft, the ground crews to maintain them and I think a few AA batteries to protect them. And they only attacked Italian targets. I can find no record of Greek based RAF units attacking any German targets, not that there were many in range.
Metaxas wanted a minimum of 9 Divisions sent. That was more than the Allies had in the Middle East.
'There was 2nd Amd ( in name only really), 6th Aust, 7th Aust, part of 2nd NZ, 70th Div assembling in Palestine with 1st Cav Div. 7th Amd refitting and good for little else, 9th Aust undergoing training in Libya. All this time, at least two Division were closely engaging the Italians in Libya. The East African Campaign was in full swing and could not really be halted. The Red Sea needed to be clear of Italian interference so USA Shipping could sail right up to the Suez Canal instead of transhipping at Durban or Mombassa.

When Eden visited Athens in Jan (?) 41 to discuss things, Churchill told him to be careful to make sure it would not lead to another Dunkirk, After Metaxas died 26th Jan 41, the new Prime Minister agreed to a much reduced Britcom force.
And all that procrastinating by the Greeks meant nothing. Hitler had already in Nov or Dec 40 to invade Greece. Well before Britcom land forces started landing in greece.
Igkmas, that is superbly said, Greece done, although I'm sure we will be back for a bit more later.

Also any changes to burma , im not sure about the burma situation before the campaign tough.
Burma has some stories coming up to set the scene so to speak. The other points you've mentioned, I'm not going to comment on to avoid spoilers, and you've nicely sewn a few red herrings too!
 
MWI 41040416 The Gentleman Officer

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Friday 04 April;

They stood on parade, in line, two deep, pith helmets, khaki shirt, shorts and long woollen socks, brown leather belt and shoes, polished to a lovely shine. Twenty-eight of them, passing out as lieutenants, their six-week officers’ course now complete, here at Roberts barracks, Singapore. General Percival himself, no less, had come down to see them, present them with their commissions, and praise them on answering the call to arms. For these weren’t conscripts, they were all over 40 years old, volunteers to a part time role, until war might break out.

Gentlemen they were, had done their bit in the war to end all wars, and having survived that, had put it behind them and become successful business men, managers, bankers, accountants, in all manner of careers. They were already enrolled in the local volunteers, and could have remained, doing their bit, in that role, in one of the Straits Settlement Volunteer Force machine gun companies. But that duty to one’s King and Country held strong, their values, beliefs, and a sense of right, dictated that they would serve again, abet in somewhat different circumstances, and so they were here. The armed forces were short of officers, and these men would help alleviate that problem.

Military discipline had already been instilled in them, and they weren’t being asked to serve in any frontline units, but provide that level of British authority required in all manner of support units in the RAOC, RASC, coastal and AA fixed defences, and other such like including Percival’s own Malaya Command HQ. What often was needed was a
figurehead, a person who could make a decision, take responsibility, but have the sense to be guided by the professional NCOs and warrant officers they might work with.

William Steel was one such person, 48 years old, he’d served in the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders in the last war, but was now a manager for Eastern Bank LTD. His uniform was somewhat tight around his girth, but nevertheless he was a fine figure of a man, in the eyes of his wife Mary, who sat in the small sheltered stand erected for this occasion, only thirty feet away from Percival, who stood in front of the paraded men, each officer being called by name to step forward and receive his letter of commission, along with a strong handshake, and a few words of congratulations.

Afterwards, there was a nice little sherry party, with Percival and a couple of other senior officers mingling about, allowing the newly made officers to present their family members, creating a lasting memory of how valued each new officer was. Then with the party finished, each officer was given a sealed envelope with his posting inside, but it wasn’t until Bill and Mary had returned home to their bungalow on the outskirts of Singapore, that he opened it to find out he was to report to the 1st Indian HAA Regt, on Monday as a supernumerary. He, like the others would be required to serve for two weeks in their unit, before returning their civilian occupations, and then serving for one day a week, or on an occasional weekend exercise.

Another 28 men would begin their course on Monday, over half of these from Hong Kong, under the same circumstances, the course running alongside the normal Officer cadet training courses, while similar programs were being run by both the RAF and Royal Navy.
 
is that true about hitler deciding to invade that early? I do remember reading something about wanting to invade greece and asking yugoslavia to allow germans to use their railway to go to greece but i thought that might have been in reaction to british air presence maybe during the fall/winter ?
Checking my references shows that Army High command was instructed to make preparations for the occupation of Greek Macedonia and Thrace on 4 Nov 1940. By 16th November, the plan was broadened to include all of Greece.
 
1941, Friday 04 April;
William Steel was one such person, 48 years old, he’d served in the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders in the last war, but was now a manager for Eastern Bank LTD. His uniform was somewhat tight around his girth, but nevertheless he was a fine figure of a man, in the eyes of his wife Mary, who sat in the small sheltered stand erected for this occasion, only thirty feet away from Percival, who stood in front of the paraded men, each officer being called by name to step forward and receive his letter of commission, along with a strong handshake, and a few words of congratulations.
Might I suggest that commissons are serious documents, engrossed on parchment and sealed (even for emergency officers) rather than letters. My TA commssion is actually signed by HM. the Queen. (By the by, my father in law was in the SSVC).
 
perhaps a little harsh. I recall getting a Letter informing me that HM had approved of my commissioning when I passed out of officer training. A short time later, I received the formal A3 sized piece of paper, fairly stiff, probably 210gm, with the official seal, the signature of the GG and the signature of the Minister of Defence.
I would suspect that letters of commissioning were typed up in expectation of a cadet graduating and if they did, then procedures would make sure the formal commissioning certificate was then produced and signed by all relevant people. If they didn't, the letter would be torn up and no certificate would be forthcoming.
There is a war on, you know. Having the King sign all those certificates and then having them flown out(?) in time for the passing out parade? I suspect the Governor would be acting in the Vice-regal capacity here and saving HM the problem of hand paralysis. Imagine how many of these would have been needed throughout the war? The poor King would need to spend hours a day signing the damn things.
Checking mine now, I see that I was commissioned in 1973 but the formal certificate was not signed until 1976. I understand that the previous Minister of Defence had thought these sort of things beneath him. The new one, Jim Killen, found he had a backlog of quite a few thousand to issue and instructed his Military aide that he would not allow anything other than a parliamentary session to interrupt him while he tackled the backlog by signing x number a day. I'm rather vague now on what the backlog was and how many he wanted to sign. I do understand that he finally caught up with the backlog just before leaving Defence.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Officers Commissions
Might I suggest that commissons are serious documents, engrossed on parchment and sealed (even for emergency officers) rather than letters. My TA commssion is actually signed by HM. the Queen. (By the by, my father in law was in the SSVC).
and
perhaps a little harsh. I recall getting a Letter informing me that HM had approved of my commissioning when I passed out of officer training. A short time later, I received the formal A3 sized piece of paper, fairly stiff, probably 210gm, with the official seal, the signature of the GG and the signature of the Minister of Defence.
I would suspect that letters of commissioning were typed up in expectation of a cadet graduating and if they did, then procedures would make sure the formal commissioning certificate was then produced and signed by all relevant people. If they didn't, the letter would be torn up and no certificate would be forthcoming.
There is a war on, you know. Having the King sign all those certificates and then having them flown out(?) in time for the passing out parade? I suspect the Governor would be acting in the Vice-regal capacity here and saving HM the problem of hand paralysis. Imagine how many of these would have been needed throughout the war? The poor King would need to spend hours a day signing the damn things.
Checking mine now, I see that I was commissioned in 1973 but the formal certificate was not signed until 1976. I understand that the previous Minister of Defence had thought these sort of things beneath him. The new one, Jim Killen, found he had a backlog of quite a few thousand to issue and instructed his Military aide that he would not allow anything other than a parliamentary session to interrupt him while he tackled the backlog by signing x number a day. I'm rather vague now on what the backlog was and how many he wanted to sign. I do understand that he finally caught up with the backlog just before leaving Defence.
Ah yes, I presume the letter Percival was giving out contained a very nice parchment, signed by the Governor. If it came to the notice of Lord Gort that he wasn't, all hell would probably break lose, there are standards to maintain. But thank you both for shedding a little more light on the subject of commissions.

Also, Wolf of Badenoch, you mentioned your father in law was in the Singapore Straits Volunteer Force, I'd love to hear of any detail of his time in that unit, or indeed his life in Singapore, either here or in personal conversation.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor

Paulo the Limey

Interesting read this far. A couple of typos:

Fatboy Coxy said:
the Sultan fearing pubic exposure
I mean, this might be true, but I feel you meant public?
Graving dock?

'graveling dock' is a typo Paulo the Limey, which I will edit, thank you for that.

However, 'pubic exposure' was a deliberate mistake, just to check if you lot were reading this and not just ticking boxes. It does however, allow the mind to wander off in all sorts of inappropriate directions. However, the jokes been done, and I'll edit that too, thank you!,
 

Paulo the Limey

Interesting read this far. A couple of typos:


I mean, this might be true, but I feel you meant public?

Graving dock?

'graveling dock' is a typo Paulo the Limey, which I will edit, thank you for that.

However, 'pubic exposure' was a deliberate mistake, just to check if you lot were reading this and not just ticking boxes. It does however, allow the mind to wander off in all sorts of inappropriate directions. However, the jokes been done, and I'll edit that too, thank you!,
My professional career is as an academic public policy researcher --- and every paper I ever write the last quality check I do before I send a manuscript out for review or publication is a CTRL-F for "pubic".

That happens on at least one manuscript in three before it goes out for review.
 
According to the RAF, the removal of four MGs from the wings made the Hurricane as nearly as good as a Zero in the turn. Having read about it's performance over Sumatra and Burma, it was quite a good fighter, much better than a Buffalo and in the hands of veteran pilots, which it was, fresh from the BoB, well it might do better than most people here think. We need to let the author develop his storyline without interference.
One could use the extra machine guns for air defense or vehicle mount them. I think that the Hurricane could probably out turn and climb a P40 as well. It apparently could out turn a Spitfire.
 
MWI 41040514 Hunting Submarine’s

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Saturday 05 April;

The crew of HMS Regent stood in silence, swaying with the motion of the submarine. No words were spoken, hand gestures only, as they worked under silent running. Faintly the crew heard the ping of a sonar, and again, eyes looking at crewmates, seeing the sweat on their faces. In the Hydrophone office, a cupboard with a curtain as a door, barely big enough for the equipment and the operator to fit in, sat Leading Telegraphist Daws whispering to Acting Lieutenant O’Neil, hunched next to him. “Another contact sir, closing, direction 273 degrees, single screw” O’Neil looked up, along the passageway into the control room, and spoke quietly, in a slow clear voice, that carried well, repeating Daws.

Lt Cmdr Knox paused for a moment, made a mental calculation, then whispered “Port helmsman, come to 90 degrees, steady at 4 knots, plot that please Henry” looking at his navigation officer, Lt Henry Jones, bent over the plotting table, pencil and ruler busy. Knox looked over his shoulder. The destroyer lay somewhere to their starboard side, about 170 degrees, and was providing the sonar contact, while this new ship made an attack.

Now the crew began to hear the vessel approaching, the regularity of the single screw thrashing through the sea. O’Neil spoke again, relaying Daws, “distance about 600 yards, estimates speed about 10 knots”. Knox looked at his helmsman, “steady as she goes”. O’Neil again, “400 yards, holding course”. The tension was in them all, a sailor coughed, and was given dagger looks. O’Neil, “200 yards, holding course, 10 knots” Knox took a deep breath, “Hard Port helmsman, full speed, come to 350 degrees, down 60 feet to 200 feet” The control room sprang into action, with quite efficacy as everyone did their bit.

On the surface, the attacking ship’s crew stood ready, awaiting the order, as the officer counted down, slowly raising his arm. Down went the arm, the order shouted out, and the depth charge crew pulled the release lever. On the destroyer, the contact had been lost, and the captain was already ordering a turn to port.

The noise of the screw above became deafening, and then noticeably started to draw away. “350 degrees, 200 feet at 8 knots sir” softly spoke the helmsman. “OK reduce speed, 4 knots” replied Knox. The crew looked at each other, small smiles on their lips, the “old man” had done it again.

On the surface, Lt Cmdr Davies, Thanet’s captain, smiled and turned to his number one, “Regent’s done it again, begin a new search pattern, signal Kampar “Never mind, better luck next time” and then signal Mata Hari it’s her turn next.” The two auxiliary patrol ships had recently been upgraded, with a small ASDIC and depth charge racks added to the existing armament of one old 4-inch gun and two Lewis guns mounted on the bridge wings. Their crew’s initial enthusiasm was now being tempered by the reality of the limitations of ASDIC, but nevertheless it was a lot more exhilarating on anti-submarine training than a normal patrol beat. Furthermore, they had the rest of the afternoon to exercise, before returning to Penang, and with tomorrow being Sunday, a day off.
 
Our author is indeed doing a great job at writing his story. I have to admit (given the subject) it brings back memories of Alternate Indian Ocean 1942 that I was thoroughly enjoying reading a couple years ago. The attention to details is here, the storyline is entertaining and the research is very well done.
Hats off @Fatboy Coxy! Continue your excellent work!
 
Our author is indeed doing a great job at writing his story. I have to admit (given the subject) it brings back memories of Alternate Indian Ocean 1942 that I was thoroughly enjoying reading a couple years ago. The attention to details is here, the storyline is entertaining and the research is very well done.
Hats off @Fatboy Coxy! Continue your excellent work!
I miss Alternate Indian Ocean 1942, I wonder what ever happened to Zheng He?
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Thank you for the complements, glad your enjoying it almost as much as I am writing it.

Zheng He, yes I miss his writings, loved reading April 1942 Alternative Indian Ocean. From my own experience, writing does take a lot of your time, I'm quite fortunate, being recently retired, I have some time, but I think Zheng He was much younger than me, and it may be that real time pressures forced him to stop writing, I wish him well.
 
MWI 41040707 A Stupid Loss

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Monday 07 April;

Keith Park was not in a good mood; he was not looking forward to the executive meeting. The frank discussions he would have with Admiral Layton and Lord Gort about the behaviour of his command would be at best uncomfortable. He was confident they would be supportive of him in the General Council meeting, but he hated the idea that they might question his competency.

He was angry at the attitude of too many in his command, who seemed to have forgotten that there was a war on, didn’t take things seriously and treated the posting here as some sort of a holiday camp, a chance to have a lark. Well, they’d bloody well gone too far this time, and the whole command was going to see a side to him they didn’t know existed. He’d been too nice with them, accepting their inexperience as a reason for poor discipline.

It beggared belief, Friday afternoon, Sqn Leader Hackett, CO of 27 squadron, had led a Vic of three Blenheim’s in some impromptu display of aircraft capabilities, culminating in a formation loop, only to stall and go into spin which he didn’t recover from. Not only had both he and his radio operator died, but so did his guest, a fighter pilot from 243 squadron, who’d managed to bail out only to be struck by one of the propellers. Quite what flying loop formations had to do with fighting the war, Park didn’t know, but he was going to be very clear to all from now on, the Command’s business would be preparing for war, and not some carnival air show!

And then to only make matters worse, the next day, a mooring vessel, HMS Buffalo, an old tug, had hit a mine while trying to recover the Blenheim and the bodies of its crew. Again, the commander of the tug, had been persuaded to turn a simple task into some kind of a party, taking twenty-five personnel from 151 Maintenance Unit, out for a jaunt, hadn’t taken navigating around controlled minefield No 3 seriously, cutting a corner, and at the last count, including the crew, 32 were killed or missing, with another 25 injured.

It also reinforced his belief that there was only so much that could be done with the hostilities only, reservists and recalled retired officers under his command, that he desperately needed some senior experienced professional commanders to lead his planned air groups. He only hoped that Portal would be as good as his word in keeping his promise to give him some talented officers, but he had been promised Hurricanes, and should start receiving them in June.
 
Thank you for the complements, glad your enjoying it almost as much as I am writing it.

Zheng He, yes I miss his writings, loved reading April 1942 Alternative Indian Ocean. From my own experience, writing does take a lot of your time, I'm quite fortunate, being recently retired, I have some time, but I think Zheng He was much younger than me, and it may be that real time pressures forced him to stop writing, I wish him well.
He went missing during the epidemic. I hope that he is still going strong somewhere but have to admit I fear with great fear.
 
Top