well now it remains to be seen if this is an idea you will pursue after all, if not all of the Pacific fell to the British would be a shameFrench South Island in NZ is a something I don’t think I’ve seen before!
well now it remains to be seen if this is an idea you will pursue after all, if not all of the Pacific fell to the British would be a shameFrench South Island in NZ is a something I don’t think I’ve seen before!
I mean, that's exactly it. Once you get past the modern patriotic cult, it makes perfect sense that the framers wouldn't agree on the interpretation of everything in the Constitution as meaning the same thing. Imagine if you put representatives from every state in 2022 in a room and told them to write a new Constitution. You're going to get at least a few fudge clauses where different people read the differently depending on how they *want* to interpret them (I find it hard to believe everyone in the room had the exact same meaning of "cruel and unusual punishment").“Guys let’s just get this done so we can get sloshed at Ben’s place, he’s got the good French hookers this time”
It’s something I’ll definitely have to consider!well now it remains to be seen if this is an idea you will pursue after all, if not all of the Pacific fell to the British would be a shame
Well put.I mean, that's exactly it. Once you get past the modern patriotic cult, it makes perfect sense that the framers wouldn't agree on the interpretation of everything in the Constitution as meaning the same thing. Imagine if you put representatives from every state in 2022 in a room and told them to write a new Constitution. You're going to get at least a few fudge clauses where different people read the differently depending on how they *want* to interpret them (I find it hard to believe everyone in the room had the exact same meaning of "cruel and unusual punishment").
The Spanish and Sicilian branches are still around and the Parma Bourbons run Portugal now. The French ones? No idea, probably still twiddling their thumbs in London, lolexcellent chapter, what happens to the bourbons?
HA! Damn right they are! As if Napoleon would ever allow them to be in his glorious Empire and cause Chaos.The Spanish and Sicilian branches are still around and the Parma Bourbons run Portugal now. The French ones? No idea, probably still twiddling their thumbs in London, lol
Its a shame that portugal got screwd over , also there should be large immigration from portugal to brasil over the yearsThe Exile Court
The Court of the Braganzas had successfully evacuated Portugal in late 1807 to flee, along with the overwhelming balance of the Portuguese fleet, the Portuguese treasury, and much of the intellectual backbone of its government, to Brazil, where it had ruled as a court "in exile" ever since. It was the model of Regent John's exile court in Rio de Janeiro that had inspired Britain's ill-thought, insipid Fernandine Gambit which had mostly achieved earning the enmity of both metropolitan Spain as well as the bulk of Spanish America, but in Brazil, it in fact worked fairly well.
The "Brazilian Regency," as the time between the Braganza arrival in 1808 and Queen Maria I's death in 1816 came to be known, was a time of transformation and progress in Brazil despite the absolutist tendencies of John. It was not known for how long Rio de Janeiro would be the seat of Portuguese power (as it turned out, at least as far as the Braganzas were concerned, forever) and so the colonial administration was in practice abolished and the city transformed with great works. The new subjects of the booming Brazil adored John, and his accession to the throne upon the death of Maria in 1816, though not changing matters in practical terms considering the power he had wielded, was met with tremendous celebration.
The transition from Maria to John was symbolic in other aspects as well. With the Peace of Aix, what had been presumed for nearly a decade became certain - the House of Braganza would not be returning to the Portuguese throne any time soon, despite a number of intrigues back in Iberia against the child king Charles I, a Parman Bourbon installed by Napoleon and ruled over by his mother and regent, Maria Luisa, who was herself a daughter of King Carlos IV of Spain and sister to his namesake heir. Britain had been able to impose an "alternate" monarch in Spanish America and had been largely driven from the continent; the question of Portugal had not even been raised at Aix, and the continuation of Bourbon rule in Lisbon would persist.
This turn of events accelerated the transition of much of Portugal's material and intellectual wealth to Brazil. In Europe, Portugal was a small peripheral state exchanged from Britain to France as a satellite, its economy weak and its politics brittle; in the Americas, Brazil was a new frontier of opportunity with an ambitious King (the only independent monarchy in that hemisphere), vast new lands to tame, and a political truce between more revolutionary elements that had been ascendant in the late 18th century now calmed by the reforms and upheavals of Brazilian spirit ongoing. In particular, a push into the "Cisplatine" region west of the Parana became paramount for Brazil to secure its rivers, and campaigns against Natives and dispersed Spanish-speaking farmers in that region alike became a focus for John's growing armies; the intrigues of his wife, Carlota Joaquina, to secure the Platense Spanish colonies for herself became a point of tension in their marriage. One advantage John enjoyed was that Brazil had Portugal's old navy and the friendship of Britain, which had largely transferred its Portuguese alliance from Lisbon to Brazil alongside the Braganzas; this opened up Brazil to markets other European states were not as easily able to exploit, triggering a massive boom in its fortunes and pacifying all but a handful of intransigents, such as a small equatorial rebellion in 1820 that John quickly snuffed out.
Conservative in governance but modern in outlook, Brazil - despite its distance from Europe and thus its perceived backwardness - was quickly emerging as a fascinating new feature of the geopolitical landscape, particularly as Spain struggled to maintain its hold over all of its American holdings equally...
The transition is happening faster than I expected. If basically Portugal as a whole is going to Brazil. The region of Portugal will fall into an economic spiral to the bottom.This turn of events accelerated the transition of much of Portugal's material and intellectual wealth to Brazil. In Europe, Portugal was a small peripheral state exchanged from Britain to France as a satellite, its economy weak and its politics brittle;
the wars for control of the La Plata basin will beginIn particular, a push into the "Cisplatine" region west of the Parana became paramount for Brazil to secure its rivers, and campaigns against Natives and dispersed Spanish-speaking farmers in that region alike became a focus for John's growing armies;
Argentina had in the period a political movement that aimed to create an independent monarchy in the Viceroyalty of Rio da Prata, whose monarch would be Infanta Carlota Joaquina ( Carlotism) Carlota ideia was resisted by her husband, and the British government (although some Britons supported her ambitions, especially Admiral Sir Sidney Smith ). I don't think a kingdom of la plata ( and brazil argentina union) is impossible, difficult but not impossible. The idea will probably have UK support on this timeline and the movement was a bit popular in the La Plata region.the intrigues of his wife, Carlota Joaquina, to secure the Platense Spanish colonies for herself became a point of tension in their marriage.
interestingly a good part of europe will be poorer with the local riches being used to enrich france. Of colonial powers we will probably only have spain, portugal-brazil, uk, france and the dutch. Portugal-brazil and uk have the advantage due to navy and geographical position. With France having to take care of Europe, a constant job that needs a lot of attention. The metropolis of the Netherlands is destroyed and the colonial empire is weakened.this opened up Brazil to markets other European states were not as easily able to exploit, triggering a massive boom in its fortunes and pacifying all but a handful of intransigents, such as a small equatorial rebellion in 1820 that John quickly snuffed out.
When spain decided to betray portugal the country was dead. But on the other hand, the kingdom of Portugal and Brazil will be much stronger. With the Portuguese immigrating en masse to Brazil. So they won and lost at the same time. all the Spanish monarchs and heirs at the time are beyond incompetent. So the kingdom of Portugal and Brazil will have the last laugh. Maybe the king of portugal will be able to divorce his spanish wife and marry another noblewoman. Considering that Spain betrayed Portugal it would make sense.Its a shame that portugal got screwd over , also there should be large immigration from portugal to brasil over the years
Lot of things I could do with Carlota Joaquina… thanks!The transition is happening faster than I expected. If basically Portugal as a whole is going to Brazil. The region of Portugal will fall into an economic spiral to the bottom.
the wars for control of the La Plata basin will begin
Argentina had in the period a political movement that aimed to create an independent monarchy in the Viceroyalty of Rio da Prata, whose monarch would be Infanta Carlota Joaquina ( Carlotism) Carlota ideia was resisted by her husband, and the British government (although some Britons supported her ambitions, especially Admiral Sir Sidney Smith ). I don't think a kingdom of la plata ( and brazil argentina union) is impossible, difficult but not impossible. The idea will probably have UK support on this timeline and the movement was a bit popular in the La Plata region.
She was unhappy with her exile in Rio de Janeiro and had a disdain for the locals whom she compared to monkeys, and they hated her back ( describing her as a short woman , frighteningly ugly and ill-tempered) giving the queen the nickname of Megera de Queluz ( The bitch/cunt of Queluz). Her first four children were the king's with the last five being from affairs she had. She tried several coups d'etat against her husband and tried to put her bastard children on the throne. Having some support in Portugal, but none in Brazil.
interestingly a good part of europe will be poorer with the local riches being used to enrich france. Of colonial powers we will probably only have spain, portugal-brazil, uk, france and the dutch. Portugal-brazil and uk have the advantage due to navy and geographical position. With France having to take care of Europe, a constant job that needs a lot of attention. The metropolis of the Netherlands is destroyed and the colonial empire is weakened.
Or Miguel could get the Plata Throne from the get go.This could develop into an interesting scenario. Instead of a Brother's War between Dom Pedro and Dom Miguel for Portugal, this could end in a "Brother's War" between Dom Pedro and Dom Miguel for the throne of La Plata and Brazil, considering Dom Miguel was favoured by Carlota.
Yes she was a woman with a lot of ambition. I'm surprised she wasn't executed for treason. Carlota Joaquina had notable qualities; her upbringing was painstaking, she was an excellent mother—she personally educated her children, she was gifted with an extraordinary talent for high political affairs. Carlota Joaquina did not adapt well to life at the Portuguese court. The atmosphere at the Bragança court differed in many ways from the happy Spanish court; while in other parts of the western world they represented the mark of a new society based on Enlightenment principles, in Portugal the Catholic Church imposes norms prohibiting all kinds of entertainment. However, to the horror of the Portuguese clique, Carlota provided Spanish parties in the gardens of the Palace of Queluz with Andalusian dances and the sound of happy castanets. Carlota's joy and vivacity were responsible for Queen Dona Maria's rare hours of relaxation. The court was socially conservative and expected its nobles and royal family to be modest and serious in the day to day life . She was a party girl. A pretty explosive combination. As a whole in another position and period she would have made a good queen. Curiously one of the reasons that led to the expulsion of the first emperor of brazil was the fact that he betrayed his wife Maria Leopoldina of Austria who was loved by the court and population of brazilLot of things I could do with Carlota Joaquina… thanks!
He could get the throne from the get go, but he or Pedro may not be satisfied by it. You would have a very significative bias towards war in this relationship due to the struggle to keep control over the La Plata basin added to the dynastic claims that both sides ( Brazil with Pedro and Argentina with Miguel) would have.Or Miguel could get the Plata Throne from the get go.
And it could end up them making peace by having one of their daughters marry the other's heir.He could get the throne from the get go, but he or Pedro may not be satisfied by it. You would have a very bias towards war in this relationship due to the struggle to keep control over the La Plata basin added to the dynastic claims that both would have.
I honestly think a war between the two kingdoms is likely, especially due to the fact that miguel is rumored to be a bastard (which is true). And the brazilian nobility would love to annex the kingdom of argentina (if that's possible I don't know)He could get the throne from the get go, but he or Pedro may not be satisfied by it. You would have a very significative bias towards war in this relationship due to the struggle to keep control over the La Plata basin added to the dynastic claims that both sides ( Brazil with Pedro and Argentina with Miguel) would have.
It's not possible in the sense of making Argentina a part of Brazil, this ain't happening. Best you can make is some kind of Dual-Monarchy scenario, like Austro-Hungary. I wonder where would the overreaching capital be in this scenario? Montevideu? Porto Alegre?I honestly think a war between the two kingdoms is likely, especially due to the fact that miguel is rumored to be a bastard (which is true). And the brazilian nobility would love to annex the kingdom of argentina (if that's possible I don't know)