I like all of them, but I think Esperanto Eupen-Malmedy is a bit uhh... wacky?As I said, I am in the process of retconning and updating a lot of the old material (while continuing to create new contentof course!).
One of the issues I have encountered is that, before I can accurately update the country statistics spreadsheet, I need to decided whether some of the randoms ideas I have drawn up will fit into this timeline.
As with previous concepts, like Vietnam and Central Italy, I am appealing to you to decide whether these changes became canon. I would also like to thank those on the Discord server for listening to my thoughts, particularly about Belgium.
As always, comments and questions are always welcome
Burma / Myanmar
The idea here is that Britain, for whatever reason, is unable to effectively occupy the interior - instead establishing it as a protectorate similar to the Princely states of India. Despite popular sentiment for unification, the two nations gain independence from Britain, with the Union of Burma along the coast, and the Kingdom of Myanmar in the interior, and have remained independent ever since. Myanmar is probably quite similar to OTL Burma/Thailand, with a strong military, relatively weak democratic systems and a ceremonial monarch.
My proposal here is some slight changes to the colonial divisions of the island. After the First World War, instead of Britain gaining German New Guinea it passes to Japan. Britain ITTL gains big chunks of German Africa plus Samoa, and Japan really wanted territorial gains given it's stalemate with China. Over the decades, Japan pursues a policy of Japanization, including the settling of Japanese colonists and many natives being forcible removed or fleeing to British Papua, resulting in a majority East Asian territory.
In the modern day:
Independent State of Irian New Guinea - a independent realm under the Dutch Crown.Commonwealth of Papua - a Commonwealth realm, though substantially more developed than OTL.State of Shinan - an Asian-style constitutional monarchy under a branch of the Japanese Imperial Family. 48% Japanese, 27% Chinese and 25% Melaneisan.Enkaido Prefecture - Japan's southernmost prefecture, 80% ethnic Japanese.
"With Belgium, it was always very much as OTL. So I've been going through some thoughts, with input from a couple of people on the Discord server. See below:
WRT Belgium - perhaps France is less understanding about being unable to put the Duke of Nemours on the Belgian throne. When TTL's Ten Day's Campaign occurs, the Belgians seek French assistance, but they refuse. The Dutch, under Willem, Prince of Orange, occupy Flanders, Antwerp and Limburg, encamping at Leuven outside Brussels.
1830s; This crisis, coupled with the economic pressure of the loss of overseas of trade, triggers unrest in Wallonia - particularly directed against the government of Leopold I in Brussels. Poor harvests in Flanders lead to the Dutch offering aid, giving rise to pro-Dutch sentiment. Leopold I attempts to exert more monarchical power, particular around control of the military and in religious affairs, favouring liberals and angering Catholics in Wallonia. This anger bubbles over and results in the Walloon Revolt against the Belgian government, leading to the French intervening and occupying Hainaut, Liege, Namur, Luxembourg and Liege.
The 1839 Treaty of London recognises the territorial divisions of the status quo as it exists in Belgium. The duchies of Flanders and Limburg are created and granted to Willem, Prince of Orange. They remain semi-separate territories until the 1867 Treaty of London, confirms their status as integral Dutch territory - in the modern day they are constituent countries.
Luxembourg emerges as OTL. France seeks to annex the "occupied" territories of Wallonia, however as in OTL, the Great Powers oppose France acquiring any territory from Belgium.
And then things get vague... Eupen-Malmedy (ITTL retained by the Netherlands rather than Prussia) is created as a principality? It follows a similar history of Luxembourg, eventually transforms into Amikejo?
The Leiningens, having been promised the Walloon throne by Prussia, are compensated with Eupen-Malmedy (their British connections help), and reminiscent to OTL, has a close relationship with Prussia. Eupen-Malmedy maintains its relations with both the Netherlands and Prussia, but has an economic history related to Moresnet (the mine being exhaused in 1885 OTL) that ends up resulting in socialist revolution, which overthrows the monarchy?The next few years for Eupen-Malmedy ends up chaotic under the newly established republic, and eventually results in the return of the monarchy (or at least, a weird variant of it?) and the transformation into Amikejo in the 1900s?
Wallonia established? France asserts historic claims to Hainaut, but Great Powers having none of it. Compromise with French protectorate over Hainaut (under cadet royal branch). Wallonia guaranteed neutrality under a German-descended monarch. Belgium dissolved and restricted to Brabant under Leopold I.
Now with Wallonia and Hainaut - my thinking is that the division is very much artificially imposed by the Great Powers to prevent France making any gains. Now Wallonia might gradually settle into neutrality, seeing a Walloon revival, but Hainault I imagine being quite vehemently French. The Duke of Nemours gets Wallonia, while the Arenbergs are installed in Hainaut.However, when the 1848 Revolutions break out, the French monarchy collapses as OTL. TTL's Belgian legion attempts to begin a revolution in the Belgian states, but fails. Follow this with France's loss to Prussia, there is reduced appetite for unification. Coupled with improved economic relations with Brabant and the Netherlands, this pulls Hainaut gradually out the French sphere (for now). By the time reunification is next a viable option its 1919, and Hainaut has had nearly 80 years developing its own identity. Hainaut had the coal industry, which would have given it significant economic power itself, especially providing the resources for the industrial revolution in Wallonia. I can’t see any power allowing another to control that resource. Actually a lot of Belgium's early industry was in Liege and along the Meuse, although coal mining was prominent in the Borinage in Hainaut. So Wallonia would still be economically viable without Hainaut, it is has it's own substantial coal fields and industrial centre ...the continental Industrial Revolution may well be slower to take off however.The Great Powers, perhaps now realising the importance of coal and the abundant resources in the region, don't like the idea of a French-aligned state controlling both Wallonia and Hainaut. France had reasserted a claim to Hainaut form the historic county, and now the Great Powers use that against them by using this historical pretence to separate Hainaut from Wallonia. The Arenbergs, a Belgian noble family with ties to Hainaut, are made king there, while in Wallonia the Duke of Nemours gets the throne.
Which leaves Brabant... I imagine being a rump Belgian state claiming the rest until reapproachment in the 1870s (seeing the Franco-Prussian War almost spill over into the Low Countries) Perhaps Leopold, now only ruling a smaller centralised state, favours the liberals more, maybe even trying to amass more political power. Could he be forced to abdicate in favour of his teenage heir in the 1848 revolutions?
In the modern day:
Flanders and Limburg - constituent countries of the Netherlands.Kingdom of Brabant - a mixed Dutch/French state under Leopold V of the House of Laeken (OTL Philippe of Belgium).Kingdom of Hainaut - a small French-speaking state under Erik II of the House of Arenberg, very much a French satellite.Kingdom of Wallonia - majority of the population speak Walloon, French-aligned under Ferdinand II of the House of Orleans-Nemours.Grand Duchy of Luxembourg - as OTL but retains the Land of Arlon.Principality of Amikejo - the world's only Esperanto-speaking state, a principality under the House of Leiningen.
Hail, Britannia
- Thread starter LeinadB93
- Start date
I voted yeas for the first two, but the part about Belgium I think needs a bit more thought. Although I like the idea of the many countries and the larger Netherlands and Luxembourg, the uber balkanization of the region irks me for some reason, maybe have those divisions but make that the independent parts are an Confederacy like the German one? meaning that the region was more cohesive but also letting the powers of Europe having their cake?
But sincerely, I think an united Belgium with some changes could also work, maybe make that instead of it being given to the Netherlands in 1815 and becoming independent in 1830, it is given to a branch of the Hapbsurg family?
But sincerely, I think an united Belgium with some changes could also work, maybe make that instead of it being given to the Netherlands in 1815 and becoming independent in 1830, it is given to a branch of the Hapbsurg family?
LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
My thinking here is that given that IOTL the British try to establish bases in Western New Guinea, and that for most of the colonial period it was nominally Dutch were no real exploration or active control. ITTL, with Dutch efforts still active in Africa, the colonial borders get drawn differently, giving a Britain a bigger share of New Guinea.
Thanks
I hope you like what I have planned for the region!Belgium... needs a lot more work. I've yet to settle on idea that is (1) realistic and feasible (2) I actually like (3) everyone else actually likes.
Back to the drawing board maybe...
@Peppe makes a good point about the possibility of Wallonia, Hainaut, Brabant, Eupen-Malmedy/Amikejo and Luxembourg in some sort of tighter union/confederacy. Perhaps that could work??
Though I like the idea of Habsburg monarch on the throne, maybe Archduke Charles, Duke of Teschen and his heirs?
And now I have an idea about a Belgian confederation, with a Habsburg monarch (House of Habsburg-Belgium) and those five states and monarchies existing under and within the confederal structure
Esperanto in Eupen-Malmedy is based on the OTL proposal in Neutral Moresnet. ITTL my thinking was that principality gets overthrown following an economic crisis in the 1880s. In the late 1890s and early 1900s the Esperantist movement gains strength in the country (earlier than OTL, but benefits from a more stable situation and a friendly government). The Revolutions of 1919 lead (weirdly) to the restoration of the principality, but now named Amikejo and a Esperanto-speaking country as it becomes one of (and later the) language of education and government. In the modern day its population is fluent in Esperanto, but most speak French or German as a second language.
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LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
Here's a little spoiler for something I've been working on today:
I totally stole the design from here
And yet again, some questions about flag redesign. I've been considering the countries of Kenya and Azanyika, which exist in what would have been Central Kenya, and Tanzania+northern Mozambique. Whilst I haven't settled on political systems, I have been playing around with designs - and I'm leaning towards both countries being Commonwealth realms. With that in mind I've got some designs I'd love to get your thoughts on:
1) Reminiscent of the OTL Tanganyika flag, incorporating three colours representing the three major ethnic groups; Black for Africans, Red for British, Blue for the Mixed peoples.
2) A red ensign with the coat of arms. The three stars together represent the three major ethnic groups.
3) A variant coat of arms I was experimenting with using the shield design favoured by the OTL countries of the region.
I kind of like number 2, but modifying the coat of arms into a shield design...
1) The OTL Tanzania flag, with the shield coat of arms emblazoned on it (least favourite)
2) The OTL Tanganyika flag, with a blue stripe for the sea and rivers. Again emblazoned with the shield coat of arms (middle favourite)
3) A green ensign with a variant shield coat of arms (kind of favourite)
I totally stole the design from here
And yet again, some questions about flag redesign. I've been considering the countries of Kenya and Azanyika, which exist in what would have been Central Kenya, and Tanzania+northern Mozambique. Whilst I haven't settled on political systems, I have been playing around with designs - and I'm leaning towards both countries being Commonwealth realms. With that in mind I've got some designs I'd love to get your thoughts on:
Kenya
1) Reminiscent of the OTL Tanganyika flag, incorporating three colours representing the three major ethnic groups; Black for Africans, Red for British, Blue for the Mixed peoples.
2) A red ensign with the coat of arms. The three stars together represent the three major ethnic groups.
3) A variant coat of arms I was experimenting with using the shield design favoured by the OTL countries of the region.
I kind of like number 2, but modifying the coat of arms into a shield design...
Azanyika
1) The OTL Tanzania flag, with the shield coat of arms emblazoned on it (least favourite)
2) The OTL Tanganyika flag, with a blue stripe for the sea and rivers. Again emblazoned with the shield coat of arms (middle favourite)
3) A green ensign with a variant shield coat of arms (kind of favourite)
Out of the two sets of flags, Kenya 2 is good for a colonial flag, and Kenya 1 for the modern flag.
Meanwhile, Azanyika 3 is good for a colonial flag, and Azanyika 1 or 2 for the modern flag.
Meanwhile, Azanyika 3 is good for a colonial flag, and Azanyika 1 or 2 for the modern flag.
And now I have an idea about a Belgian confederation, with a Habsburg monarch (House of Habsburg-Belgium) and those five states and monarchies existing under and within the confederal structure
Palatinates are here for what, my dear?
I don't liked the idea of this belgianization (on that Discord discussion), but confederal-monarchy would be suitable as hell for Belgium, or better Confederation of the Belgiums .
I’d say
Kenya - 1
Azanyika - 2
I don’t think most African nations would want to keep the Union Jack even if they are still part of the commonwealth
Kenya - 1
Azanyika - 2
I don’t think most African nations would want to keep the Union Jack even if they are still part of the commonwealth
hmm surely the Swiss Confederacy was larger than a City State, and wot about the Dutch?, thats of course assuming one forgets the Commonwealth Interlude on the Grounds it did not last. But surely even failed experi,ments can be an ideological inspiration.? Come to that even the Italian City States often controlled rather more than a single city
Just have a more progressive attitude in China to animal welfare. Should be doable....
LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
Thanks everyone
You've helped me make my mind up about these!More exploration of the region to come, including a certain major infrastructure project
It's worth pointing out that ITTL Kenya is much more heavily settled by Europeans, resulting in some different demographics and a more... unpleasant...road to independence. Hence the possible retention of the British ensign.
Azanyika was more of a British protectorate, though nominally part of Zanzibar it was governed separately. The territory south of the Rufiji River to the Mozambique border was a German protectorate until after the First World War when the British took it.
All good points
however the Swiss Confederacy wasn't seen as a single state at the time, and the Dutch was more of an aristocractic republic. Same for a lot of the Italian city states.Indeed
LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
Palatinates are here for what, my dear?
Indeed
One idea I'm now toying with is as follows:
Leopold is more reluctant to accept the Belgian throne, so the regency under de Chokier continues. Combine this with an economic crisis, poor harvests in Flanders, unrest in Wallonia, some reactionary movements and a more successful Ten Days' Campaign. The Dutch, under Willem, Prince of Orange, occupy Flanders, Antwerp and Limburg, encamping at Leuven outside Brussels. The French invade and occupy Hainaut, Liege, Namur, Luxembourg and Liege.
The Great Powers drag everyone back to the negotiating table in 1832, hammering out the following agreement:
The Belgian Confederation is established, modelled on the German Confederation, but with a President not from one of the member states. Archduke Charles, Duke of Teschen of the Habsburgs is chosen, and granted the title "President of the Belgian Confederation" based in Brussels.
The duchies of Flanders and Limburg are created and granted to Willem, Prince of Orange.
Luxembourg emerges as OTL, a grand duchy in personal union with the Netherlands.
France seeks to annex the "occupied" territories of Wallonia, however as in OTL, the Great Powers oppose France acquiring any territory from Belgium. France had reasserted a claim to Hainaut form the historic county, but the Great Powers use that against them
Hainaut is separated from Wallonia, and created as a Principality under the House of Arenberg.
Wallonia is created a Grand Duchy under the Duke of Nemours.
Eupen-Malmedy (ITTL retained by the Netherlands rather than Prussia) is created as a principality, and granted to the Leiningens who had been promised the Walloon throne by Prussia.
Brabant is created a Grand Duchy and given to OTL Leopold I.
The 1893 General Strike leads to widespread reformation of the political system. A federalised "Belgian" state emerges under the House of Habsburg-Belgium, confirmed by the 1893 Treaty of London:
Flanders and Limburg are confirmed as integral Dutch territory - in the modern day they are constituent countries.
The Belgian Confederation is transformed into the United Belgian States, with a centralised federal government based in Brussels under the second president Charles II (OTL Archduke Albrecht, Duke of Teschen), a unified parliament and a single prime minister. Brabant, Hainaut, Wallonia, Luxembourg, and Eupen-Malmedy continue to exist as states within the federal monarchy, retaining their own heads of state.
During the early 20th century, Eupen-Malmedy sees a rise in the Esperantist movement, eventaully transforming the country into "Amikejo" in the 1930s. Nazi Germany policies suppress the language in the Second World War (reannexing the territory), but after its restoration is officially renamed Amikejo and becames majority Esperanto.
In the First World War, the German Empire violates Belgian neutrality as OTL. This means Belgium (under its Habsburg King) is on the Entente side and survives. Occupied again in the Second World War and then liberated. Became a founding member of the EEC.
Thoughts?
Maybe have them be part of the Belgian Confederation, but also elect members to the Dutch parliament?
LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
Not sure how that would work... it would be like a US state electing MPs to the Canadian House of Commons...
Perhaps, altering the proposal slightly, the Dutch only gain an enlarged Limburg? While Flanders (OTL East & West Flander plus Antwerp) is a Grand Duchy for Leopold. While Brabant is the royal domain of the reigning president/king?