English Canada/French Carolina: A Timeline

[Gabingston]

So, here is my proposal for the map of Australia and New Zealand ITTL. I didn't color in Fiji and some other Melanesian Islands because I haven't figured out who colonizes them yet. Either way, here it goes:

• Red = Britain (Victoria, Tasmania, NSW, Southern Queensland and a little bit of South Australia)
• Green = Portugal (Northern Queensland, most of the Northern Territory and a little bit of Western Australia)
• Orange = Netherlands (most of Western Australia)
• Blue = France (most of South Australia and the Northern Territory south of the Tropic of Capricorn)
• Navy Blue = Germany (New Caledonia)
• Pink = Denmark (North Island)
• Light Blue = Sweden (South Island)

Any thoughts?

 

[Odinson]

Judging by the distance and location, I feel Fiji would either go to Germany or Denmark because its closer to both New Caledonia and North Island than Australia proper.

 

[Dylanperr]

View attachment 488721
So, here is my proposal for the map of Australia and New Zealand ITTL. I didn't color in Fiji and some other Melanesian Islands because I haven't figured out who colonizes them yet. Either way, here it goes:

• Red = Britain (Victoria, Tasmania, NSW, Southern Queensland and a little bit of South Australia)
• Green = Portugal (Northern Queensland, most of the Northern Territory and a little bit of Western Australia)
• Orange = Netherlands (most of Western Australia)
• Blue = France (most of South Australia and the Northern Territory south of the Tropic of Capricorn)
• Navy Blue = Germany (New Caledonia)
• Pink = Denmark (North Island)
• Light Blue = Sweden (South Island)

Any thoughts?

Who discovered and colonized each of those places for each nation in the South Atlantic? and How did you come up with that?

 

[Gabingston]

Who discovered and colonized each of those places for each nation in the South Atlantic? and How did you come up with that?

Britain colonized Patagonia, South Africa remained Dutch until the 1850s, and the Latin American Revolutions are butterflied. The Scramble For Africa is still a few decades a way, and it won't end up with 90% of Africa under European Rule ITTL.

 

[Gabingston]

My next update is gonna be on South Africa, do any of you guys have ideas (particularly @JonasResende and @pompejus)?

 

[Gabingston]

What were the most populated areas of South Africa around 1800?

 

[pompejus]

My next update is gonna be on South Africa, do any of you guys have ideas (particularly @JonasResende and @pompejus)?

I have recently returned from a holiday, so I am afraid I did not pay a lot of attention.

What were the most populated areas of South Africa around 1800?

I would say that would be the Cape area, think Western Cape area

What I suspect is that without an English occupation of South Africa, there would be significantly less reason for the Boer trek. I suspect that most people would remain closer to the Cape, instead of founding the Boer Republics and if they do move into that area, they would not found new republic, but remain part of the central government, not unlike the American settlement of the west. I think they might open the borders to settlers, but mainly protestant settlers. Probably mostly Dutch, German (and Swiss) and Scandinavian. Possibly British protestants would be welcome too, but I suspect most would go for British colonies.

Something like Apartheid is probably inevitable. It is something you see in all settler colonies. Personaly I believe that American Indians and Australian Aboriginals were treated at least as bad as the native African population was in South Africa. That said, it could be very different OTL apartheid. Especialy without a Boer trek to extend the Cape colony as much as OTL

Not sure what would happen when they meet people like the Zulu. That said, I could see the British or French actualy trying to colonise Natal. Either of them would want a refueling station to reach their Asian colonies and Natal is probably the easiest free place for it.

Without the British influence, the language will probably remain Dutch, especialy if more Dutch settlers come in. Afrikaans would probably seen as a Dutch dialect. Compare American English with British English.

Personaly I always liked the idea of Southerns, as in the south African variant of the Western movie/novel.

 

[Gabingston]

Not sure what would happen when they meet people like the Zulu. That said, I could see the British or French actualy trying to colonise Natal. Either of them would want a refueling station to reach their Asian colonies and Natal is probably the easiest free place for it.

Spoiler alert, but the British do colonize Natal.

 

[Gabingston]

I would say that would be the Cape area, think Western Cape area

What I suspect is that without an English occupation of South Africa, there would be significantly less reason for the Boer trek. I suspect that most people would remain closer to the Cape, instead of founding the Boer Republics and if they do move into that area, they would not found new republic, but remain part of the central government, not unlike the American settlement of the west. I think they might open the borders to settlers, but mainly protestant settlers. Probably mostly Dutch, German (and Swiss) and Scandinavian. Possibly British protestants would be welcome too, but I suspect most would go for British colonies.

I think that the lack of British rule would be balanced out by a higher population and immigration of non-Calvinists, thus the treks still occur IMO (I did mention them going as far as the Orange River in my last post on South Africa). With that being said, I agree that the Western Cape will hold a large majority of the population, at least until the gold and diamond rushes, which won't happen until the 1870s and 1880s.

 

[Gabingston]

Part 47: South Africa​

It’s been a while, but alas, ‘tis the time to return to Africa, specifically South Africa, because I am an ignorant white boy who knows jacques merde about the rest of Africa. So, back to the Republic of South Africa. The Boers had recently migrated from the Cape Region up onto the Highveld, coming into contact with the different Bantu peoples that already inhabited it. The Highveld had recently suffered a massive depopulation during the wars of Shaka Zulu, so the Bantu population was lower than it otherwise would have been.

In addition, there had also been a large influx of Dutch settlers fleeing the civil war and its aftermath during the 1830s and 40s, thus growing the non-Indigenous (White and Colored) population to 404,000 by 1850. Kaapstad was home to 52,000 people, or over 10% of the population, and was by far the most populous city in the Republic, with a majority of the remaining population living on the coastal plain to the north and east of Kaapstad. Recent Dutch and German immigrants had greatly boosted the population, many of them buying up farmland that had recently been vacated by Boers that had departed for the frontier.

Meanwhile, the Brits had their colony of Natal based out of Port Natal. The coastal plain of Natal had a much higher native population than both the Cape and the Highveld, thus the Natal colony retained a solid African majority. First used as a supply and refueling station for British ships headed to India and Australia, the Brits later started growing Sugarcane, importing Indian indentured servants to work the fields. Anyways, back to the Republic of South Africa.

The trekkers had made their way past the Orange River by this point, having explored the highveld and settled as far as Bloemfontein. As they explored, tales of vast, untapped riches spread, inspiring even more to seek their fortune in the bush, but that’s a story for another day.

 

[Gabingston]

European Settlement in Southern Africa as of 1850

• Orange = Republic of South Africa
• Red = Britain
• Green = Portugal

 

[Gabingston]

What do you guys think will happen to Hanover? It was in a personal union with the UK, but is pretty much surrounded by Prussia by this point.

 

[Gabingston]

 

[Gabingston]

Vineyards in Terre-Bourbon, the world's largest per-capita wine producer.

 

[Gabingston]

Coast of New Holland near Hoopstad.

 

[Gabingston]

European Settlement of Terra Australis as of 1875

• Red = British Settled
• Pink = British Influenced
• Blue = French Settled
• Light Blue = French Influenced
• Orange = Dutch Settled
• Light Orange = Dutch Influenced
• Green = Portuguese Settled
• Light Green = Portuguese Influenced

 

[Gabingston]

Part 48: Where Beer Does Flow And Men Chunder​

Before I get to more of what is going on in Europe, it is time to return to the Land Down Under, Where Beer Does Flow And Men Chunder (no, I will not stop making these Men At Work references when I talk about Australia). We resume after the Victorian Gold Rush, where massive deposits were discovered across the colony of Victoria in Southeastern Australia. Not only did this bring massive wealth and notoriety to British Australia, but it also convinced the Dutch and French to pay more attention to their own Australian colonies. The colonial governments of both New Holland and Terre Bourbon sent out expeditions to discover gold or other minerals, with varying degrees of success. While there wasn’t a ton of gold discovered like in Victoria, other resources such as Coal were discovered, mainly in New Holland. For Terre-Bourbon, on the other hand, the main economic resource would be something quite different…

Beginning around 1860, the phylloxera grape pest was inadvertently introduced from North America to Europe due to the increased speed of new steam ships allowing them to survive the voyage across the pond. While North American grape species were partially immune to the pest, the Old World Grape had not been exposed to the pest, and was thus ravaged, wrecking the wine industry across Europe.

Before long, thousands of French wine growers were out of work, their livelihoods having been destroyed by a little bitty bug (although it wasn’t clearly known at the time). Meanwhile, Terre-Bourbon had already gained a reputation as a wine grower’s paradise, with its Mediterranean climate and unusually fertile soils for Terra Australis, and since it was on the other side of the world, the pest couldn’t survive the voyage. Down on their luck wine growers soon migrated en masse to Terre Bourbon, soon making wine the largest export from the colony and making Terre Bourbon the world’s largest per-capita wine producing region, in addition to growing wheat and raising livestock. The European population of Terre-Bourbon had grown from 22,000 in 1850 to 95,000 in 1875, and French settlement had expanded from the area around Louisport to other coastal regions, with some notable French settlements being Taparie, Ouaiala, Port Champagny and Thevenard.

Now, let us go to the Dutch colony of New Holland. With a population of 104,000 in 1875, the Dutch had expanded around the Southwestern Corner of Terra Australis, which had a temperate climate, unlike the desert that covered most of the territory claimed by The Netherlands. Dutch settlements extended as far north as Pelsaert, and as far east as Hoopstad. Wheat was grown in more fertile areas, while livestock (mainly cattle and sheep) dominated in the less fertile areas. While New Holland’s wine culture was nowhere near as storied or significant as Terre-Bourbon’s, viticulture still played a role in the economy of New Holland. The Coastal Plain still held a majority of the population, centered around the growing Twin Cities (strange to refer to Twin Cities that aren’t Minneapolis and Saint Paul) of Fort Vlamingh and New Utrecht. As mentioned in my first update on New Holland, there was a surprising amount of ethnic and religious diversity found in the colony, as aside from the dominant Dutch population, there were also populations of Germans, Scandinavians, Portuguese, Jews and Indonesians in New Holland, along with the Aboriginal people that originally inhabited the land. Germans in particular formed a large part of the population (around 25%), largely because of the high amount of emigration from the German states and because Germany had no major settler colonies of their own, with the Dutch being the most culturally similar of the nations that did have settler colonies (although a strong majority of German emigrés went to the Commonwealth of America). Now, that does not mean that the Germans didn’t have any colonies, because they did (Neu-Kaledonien being the most prominent example), but they simply didn’t have any that would be attractive to large amounts of settlers.

Finally, we now pay a visit to British Australia, the most populated and influential of the European colonies in Terra Australis. With a population of almost two million and a longer history than any of the other colonies, it was no question that the Brits were the big fish in the Australian pond. Melbourne and Sydney were the two largest cities on the continent, while others like Brisbane, Newcastle, Wollongong and Geelong could hold their own. However, it wasn’t as if British Australia had no problems. For one, they treated the Aboriginals like s**t (as did the other European colonial powers in Australia), but I’ve got a full dirty laundry update coming once this TL gets to 1900. There was also the Eureka Rebellion by miners against the British authorities, which was promptly crushed but also led to the development of an Anglo-Australian national identity. By 1875, British Australia was divided into four separate territories, those being New South Wales (Sydney), Victoria (Melbourne), Tasmania (Hobart) and Queensland (Brisbane). The Anglo-Australian economy was primarily based off of agriculture, mining, forestry and livestock during this period, and the opportunities found Down Under lured many Brits to try their luck on the other side of the world.

Terra Australis, the Great Southern Continent, the Land Down Under, Where Women Glow and Men Plunder, the new land of opportunity for those brave souls who were willing to try their luck on the other side of the world. They’re living in a Land Down Under, Where Beer Does Flow and Men Chunder. Can’t You Hear (X2) The Thunder? You Better Run, You Better Take Cover...

 

[Gabingston]

Here is something that I think could happen, and why I have a big problem if it does happen:
With Brazil becoming so influential within the Portuguese Empire (having long surpassed the motherland in both size and population), the Portuguese Court packs its bags and heads for Rio. The mainland Portuguese, feeling betrayed, declare independence as a new Portuguese Republic. The Portuguese Crown is unable to retrieve the motherland, and Brazil and Portugal go their separate ways. Now, here is the problem: Portugal's colonies.
Neither Angola nor Mozambique had votes held on them, so I can presume that they'd likely be seized by another European power (Spain or Britain, maybe). However, Northern Australia did have a vote, and you guys voted that it would be Portuguese, but in all likelihood it would be seized. I don't like to violate the popular consensus, but I also want to remain realistic. Any thoughts?

 

[Gabingston]

In the meantime, here's a hint for Part 49:

 

[Gabingston]

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