Most likely would be a three-way Cold War. Nazi Germany vs. US. vs. Japan
Determined to Destroy Us - An Axis Victory Cold War TL
- Thread starter SirPaperweight
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Bookmark1995
Banned
But even that will only fuel the assumption that Germans are pre-disposed to bestial urges. Images of Germans stomping on the lowest of the low would provide a haunting look into the excesses of the German nation.
American Politician: The Nazi horde knows nothing but the subjugation of the weak. They despise freedom because they know only the free can resist their evil, thus they despise us, the center of freedom on Earth.
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The Greeks had slaves, were they beasts. The Romans had slaves, were they all beasts. The states of the CSA had slaves and were so wedded to the system that they attempted to secede, and southern society as a whole was not composed of beasts. In all of these societies rebellious slaves were subject to rather unpleasant physical punishments. Of course in every society there are psychopaths and sadists, whether it is a slave society or not. OTL the average German would walk by SA troopers beating Jews in the street even early on in the Nazizeit, and most either approved or chose to ignore. With every year of Nazi rule a higher percentage of the population has been indoctrinated from a young age in Nazi ideology, and older folks have been desensitized to what they might not have accepted before.
By 1950 everyone under 25 has been indoctrinated in Nazi ideology from early childhood, those from 25-40 (at least the men) had mostly had military service during the war and the women were involved in various auxiliary services. Furthermore, for all Germans especially and somewhat for all "Aryans", Nazi ideology has won and most of the promises of Hitler in terms of Germany advancing have been fulfilled.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I understand that what has happened to the German people ITTL can happen to anybody. My point is, the average joe in America, England, and Brazil will also grow up thinking the Nazis are monsters.
And anybody ITTL can also point out that American society has evolved to be accepting of other people. Look the ATL 1960 election. The most powerful man in the world ceded his power to another rather than sell out second class citizens, while the ITTL Germans murder second class citizens to maintain theirs. That would only add to the idea of America as a sacred nations, vs. the monsters of Central Europe.
By the time the Third Reich collapses there will be few, if any, average Americans, Brits, etc. who hold sympathetic views towards the German people.
Opinion of the Italians could recover greatly, given how they are turning against the Germans
I do want to point out one thing, Bookmark.
While they aren't what people normally think of when they hear the word reform, the Nazis have already instituted some reforms to make their rule more efficient and less of a hot mess.
Whereas Hitler had the ridiculous notion that playing his subordinates off of each other would make them more effective, once Goering became Fuhrer he immediately put an end to that shit. He also cut down on government waste by . . . let me check the update . . . He's able to cut it by around 75%.
So the Nazi government has already become more streamlined and efficient. Made itself better able to rule while still pursuing their horrific policies.
While they aren't what people normally think of when they hear the word reform, the Nazis have already instituted some reforms to make their rule more efficient and less of a hot mess.
Whereas Hitler had the ridiculous notion that playing his subordinates off of each other would make them more effective, once Goering became Fuhrer he immediately put an end to that shit. He also cut down on government waste by . . . let me check the update . . . He's able to cut it by around 75%.
So the Nazi government has already become more streamlined and efficient. Made itself better able to rule while still pursuing their horrific policies.
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unless the German economy has gotten off of slave labor and have turned down their massive government spending they are still in for a world of hurt when they run out of people to work to death
As I understand it, the slave labor wasn't an especially large part of their economy to begin with. Most of the work throughout the war was still done by German workers, and most of the work after the war would be done by German workers.
As for the rest . . . Assuming this is actually accurate, this post from another timeline might be worth reading.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...-enthusiastic-hitler-si.421177/#post-15200928
As for the rest . . . Assuming this is actually accurate, this post from another timeline might be worth reading.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...-enthusiastic-hitler-si.421177/#post-15200928
The Germans will lead in heavy industries and some consumer goods in Europe, the Middle and Near East for a good time with access to raw materials and captive markets. The cracks may begin to show in computer technologies and sciences since higher education, access to capital and information may be more problematic in Axis Europe.
An important thing to note is that the Nazis absolutely gutted the German educational system, teaching utter nonsense like the Ice Universe theory, banning the teaching of evolution IIRC and persecuting 'Jewish Science'. And that's just the hard sciences.
The USSR during OTL Cold War might have been closed, but with certain exceptions (hello, Lysenkoism!) it's educational system was more than able to compete with the great powers. Even if the Reich reformed, I think the pervasive Nazi ideology would make education difficult, at least in the pure sciences (and you can forget about the social sciences). Engineering might be still good, but of an inferior quality of that in the US and the rest of the *free* world.
Jack Brisco
Banned
I believe the USA/Free World would quickly outstrip the Reich technology-wise, again due to superior educational systems and free flows of information.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Who says Generalplan Ost can actually work at creating good farmland? In the update with the French woman, the fields of "Ostland" were barren.
What if Germans have lots of babies, but the farms don't work out? This would either force the Germans to starve, give away hard currency, or give away technology to maintain a steady food supply. And if the Reich does lose its technological edge, than it will lose the ability to import food without going into debt.
What if Germans have lots of babies, but the farms don't work out? This would either force the Germans to starve, give away hard currency, or give away technology to maintain a steady food supply. And if the Reich does lose its technological edge, than it will lose the ability to import food without going into debt.
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I would also point out that this isn't just the Free World vs the Reich.
Germany isn't alone. Even if Germany itself has educational limitations, advances in technology can still propagate through contact with their allies or those countries that are friendly towards Germany.
Regardless of how it plays out, I think the Germans would probably build things to last instead of the planned obsolescence that a lot of consumer goods are built with today.
German citizens might have less advanced but longer lasting things.
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I'll also say the Germans never banned the teaching of evolution.
Though one interesting thing, for a given value of interesting, was how they tweaked certain subjects to try to push students towards their thinking.
One thing they were big on was euthanasia for those who were mentally or physically handicapped, so they'd do things like slip that into the math problems. Instead of stuff like, "If I have five apples and eat two of them, how many apples are left?", what they would do is give questions asking students to calculate how much it would cost the state to keep handicapped people alive. To make them view the handicapped as nothing more than a burden.
They called it social arithmetic.
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And on rereading the interlude you're talking about Bookmark . . . Those barren fields were deliberately abandoned. At the time of that update, they aren't even trying to cultivate them. Though it is rather strange that they're barren. You'd think nature would be reclaiming the abandoned fields.
They can't work everything at once. What they would be doing is basically picking out the best land for <insert resource here> and using it to form the nucleus of a given regions colonization efforts. Then they would spread out from there and, one day, those fields might possibly be worked again.
One such area would be the Ukraine Breadbasket. With the arable land Germany already had, as well as that breadbasket, they can afford to leave most of the farmland seized from the Soviets abandoned.
There would have to be a full blown catastrophe for Germany to suffer food shortages.
Germany isn't alone. Even if Germany itself has educational limitations, advances in technology can still propagate through contact with their allies or those countries that are friendly towards Germany.
Regardless of how it plays out, I think the Germans would probably build things to last instead of the planned obsolescence that a lot of consumer goods are built with today.
German citizens might have less advanced but longer lasting things.
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I'll also say the Germans never banned the teaching of evolution.
Though one interesting thing, for a given value of interesting, was how they tweaked certain subjects to try to push students towards their thinking.
One thing they were big on was euthanasia for those who were mentally or physically handicapped, so they'd do things like slip that into the math problems. Instead of stuff like, "If I have five apples and eat two of them, how many apples are left?", what they would do is give questions asking students to calculate how much it would cost the state to keep handicapped people alive. To make them view the handicapped as nothing more than a burden.
They called it social arithmetic.
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And on rereading the interlude you're talking about Bookmark . . . Those barren fields were deliberately abandoned. At the time of that update, they aren't even trying to cultivate them. Though it is rather strange that they're barren. You'd think nature would be reclaiming the abandoned fields.
They can't work everything at once. What they would be doing is basically picking out the best land for <insert resource here> and using it to form the nucleus of a given regions colonization efforts. Then they would spread out from there and, one day, those fields might possibly be worked again.
One such area would be the Ukraine Breadbasket. With the arable land Germany already had, as well as that breadbasket, they can afford to leave most of the farmland seized from the Soviets abandoned.
There would have to be a full blown catastrophe for Germany to suffer food shortages.
Bookmark1995
Banned
North Korea does the same thing, actually. Here's a North Korean math question, source.
``During the Fatherland Liberation War (North Korea’s official name for the Korean War) the brave uncles of Korean People’s Army killed 265 American imperialist bastards in the first battle. In the second battle they killed 70 more bastards than they had in the first battle. How many bastards did they kill in the second battle? How many American imperialist bastards did they kill all together?’'
Answers: 335. 600.
Replace "American imperialist bastards" with "mongrel-Jewish hordes", and you'll get an idea of what class is like.
Former Heer members being sent east with slaves don't make for the best farmers, to say the least, unless you get some honest to God experienced agricultural guys all that arable land will be wasted its inefficient. Just saying when you ignore entire fields of research because they are ''Jewish'' you are getting behind the West will outstrip Germany and her allies technologically and industrially Germany is one the wrong side of 75/25 industrial split and guess who has the 75%.
I can't say how effective it would be, since I'm not a farmer or anything, but it's not like they were planning to just hand farms over to completely inexperienced people.
The SS had special schools focused on teaching people how to be farmers established in 1938, and the plan was for every settler to receive two years of agricultural education before they'd actually be given their farms.
The SS had special schools focused on teaching people how to be farmers established in 1938, and the plan was for every settler to receive two years of agricultural education before they'd actually be given their farms.