Determined to Destroy Us - An Axis Victory Cold War TL
- Thread starter SirPaperweight
- Start date
Bookmark1995
Banned
Ain't that the truth-
- at least in EuropeBut there could be plenty of happy endings in Rio Pact states.
Considering that America has become the unofficial kingmaker in those two countries through Checkbook Diplomacy, I think the US government would strive to prevent a war over Mongolia.
Demographically, the Germans will probably succeed in Germanizing Eastern Europe, but spiritually, they won't. The prologue states that they fall, meaning their sick twisted ideas are rejected by much of the world outside of Europe.
The Reich started mass-producing bioweapons after Hitler's death.
Yes, that mine is operated by Africans under Wehrmacht supervision.
1. The Hohenzollerns are alive, if politically irrelevant.
2. Tsar Boris was overthrown in 1954 and replaced by Petar Gabrovski, a devout ally of the Nazis who achieved more power ITTL than OTL.
3. Indeed he is.
4. Hungary abolished the monarchy following the war, establishing a legal dictatorship led by Ferenc Szálasi.
5. Serbia is strange; while nominally an independent fascist dictatorship, it is in reality hardly distinguishable from a German province in administration. All real decision-making in Serbia happens in Berlin. However, Serbia has so far escaped the worst of Generalplan Ost, and holds only a few Germans in Belgrade (which was not renamed). So no, no royals here.
6. Michael I is still king, but holds no power. All authority has been consolidated under the Iron Guard, which was revived in the postwar years with the blessing of the Reich.
Yes, the previous update was only meant for the start of the Space Race.
Probably because this is what the Nazis planned on doing, had they won the war. It's all too real.
Perhaps. I haven't given it much thought, honestly.
The POD is when Burton K. Wheeler runs for president as something of a favorite son candidate in 1932, but does unexpectedly well, forcing FDR to pick him as his running mate to secure his delegates at the convention.
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Chapter XXVI: Forza e Ricchezza - Italy
Chapter XXVI: Forza e Ricchezza - Italy
Benito Mussolini was a troubled man. Personally, he disliked Germany's hegemonic position in Europe, but was forced into being complicit in its creation after the diplomatic isolation of Italy following the Italo-Ethiopian War. He believed that while Italy was stronger now than ever before, it paled in comparison to its northern neighbor. Il Duce understood that Hermann Göring and the Nazis viewed the Kingdom of Italy as a subservient nation to the German master race. This attitude was demonstrated in meetings between German and Italian diplomats - in one instance, Adolf Hitler did not bother to arrive for a scheduled dinner with the Italian ambassador.
In response to such German insults, Mussolini authorized the creation of Italy's first atomic bomb. When the Italians successfully tested their first nuclear weapon in the Libyan desert in 1958, Berlin was outraged. Hitler and Göring had made it clear that Germany was to be the only Axis nation armed with nuclear weapons. The upstarts in Rome were undermining Aryan racial supremacy, and that was unacceptable. Thus, in April 1961, Germany secretly delivered to Italy an ultimatum: surrender all atomic weapons and disable any nuclear power plants on Italian soil. The consequences of refusal were left unsaid.
If Göring believed that Mussolini would capitulate so easily, he was wrong. Just three days after the demand was issued, Italy went ahead with a scheduled hydrogen bomb test, openly flaunting German wishes. Italian and German soldiers massed along the border, ready for war if need be. Göring, despite his tough words, feared a conflict with Italy; It would split the Axis in two and lead to nuclear devastation in much of Europe. When Mussolini refused to fold, he had to find a way to save face.
The Führer invited Mussolini to a summit in Bern, ostensibly to discuss "matters of importance related to the military cooperation between the two nations." Of course, in reality, it was an attempt for Göring to avoid both war and humiliation. Mussolini's demands included the retention of the Italian nuclear stockpile and the recognition of Italy as an equal power to Germany. Göring wanted the dismantlement of the Italian nuclear program and the end to any future nuclear testing by any Axis nation.
The compromise settled on was thus: Italy would destroy its nuclear stockpile and dismantle its nuclear program. In return, the German leadership would recognize Italy as a truly independent nation equal to the Reich. The two leaders returned home having gotten what they wanted, satisfied that war had been avoided and the alliance had been saved. Of course, Mussolini had no intention of actually surrendering the Italian nuclear stockpile. Instead, he ordered the entire operation be moved to Africa, where it could be hidden from the Germans. All actual testing was put to a halt, but construction continued.
Il Duce would never see the consequences of that action. His age caught up to him on June 20, 1961, and he died peacefully in his sleep. His successor was Italo Balbo, an advocate of Italy asserting its independence and an opponent of anti-Jewish racial laws. Upon becoming Prime Minister and Duce, Balbo set about reversing Italy's racial laws, once again defying Berlin by allowing Jews to live as mostly full citizens.
Italy's new dictator refused to march in goosestep with the Reich, ignoring German wishes when deciding on policy matters
Balbo oversaw a liberalization in the Italian economy. The corporatist economic structure was slowly dissolved, and free-market competition was introduced. With competition came growth, as firms cut costs and increased quality to appeal to the people. Consumer goods like televisions became widespread. This liberalization sparked a rapid growth in the Italian economy. From 1960 to 1970, Italy's GDP doubled, and Italians became known as the wealthiest members of the Axis. Unlike Germans, Italians saw their standard of living grow by the year, creating a satisfaction with the regime that had to be enforced at gunpoint in the Reich. German reformists looked at Italy as a prime example of the kind of economy they wanted to create.
With this new wealth, Balbo looked to modernize the Italian military. Old, Second Great War-era weapons were replaced with modern arms. The navy and air force, in particular, were rapidly expanded, upgraded with new jets and ships. As time passed, Italy's reputation for military incompetence waned; although the Italian military could not stand up to the Wehrmacht, it was still an effective force on its own.
The new Duce sought to pursue Italianization across the empire. Aggressive efforts to expand the colonization efforts to Egypt, Palestine and Syria were undertaken, with little success. In Egypt, Italians went from comprising 10% of the population in 1960 to only 15% in 1970. In Palestine and Syria, the percentage of Italians hovered around 10% by the end of the decade. Balbo too focused on Italianizing East Africa, but settlement of that region was even slower; by 1970, only one in twenty Ethiopians were Italian in origin.
Balbo also sought to allow for more cultural freedom. Italian films were not subject to the same sort of censorship that existed under the Mussolini regime, and thus could venture into themes that were previously prohibited. The promotion of conservative values was no longer a requirement for a film to avoid censorship, prompting a creative explosion in Italian film. Cinecittà, the large film studio constructed during Mussolini's reign, was expanded, and similar studios were opened in Milan, Venice, Genoa, Florence, Naples and even Tunis.
Italy increasingly seemed like a modern, developed nation, with the average citizen having wealth approaching (but not meeting) that of the US and UK. Cars were not luxuries; they were common staples of living, with most working-class families having at least one. The people had much to spend on, too, with consumer goods and films making a resurgence in Italy. This prosperity had ripple effects through the coming decades, as Italy largely avoided the suffering and discontent that would plague its northern neighbor.
Italy gained a reputation for wealth and prosperity within the Axis
Benito Mussolini was a troubled man. Personally, he disliked Germany's hegemonic position in Europe, but was forced into being complicit in its creation after the diplomatic isolation of Italy following the Italo-Ethiopian War. He believed that while Italy was stronger now than ever before, it paled in comparison to its northern neighbor. Il Duce understood that Hermann Göring and the Nazis viewed the Kingdom of Italy as a subservient nation to the German master race. This attitude was demonstrated in meetings between German and Italian diplomats - in one instance, Adolf Hitler did not bother to arrive for a scheduled dinner with the Italian ambassador.
In response to such German insults, Mussolini authorized the creation of Italy's first atomic bomb. When the Italians successfully tested their first nuclear weapon in the Libyan desert in 1958, Berlin was outraged. Hitler and Göring had made it clear that Germany was to be the only Axis nation armed with nuclear weapons. The upstarts in Rome were undermining Aryan racial supremacy, and that was unacceptable. Thus, in April 1961, Germany secretly delivered to Italy an ultimatum: surrender all atomic weapons and disable any nuclear power plants on Italian soil. The consequences of refusal were left unsaid.
If Göring believed that Mussolini would capitulate so easily, he was wrong. Just three days after the demand was issued, Italy went ahead with a scheduled hydrogen bomb test, openly flaunting German wishes. Italian and German soldiers massed along the border, ready for war if need be. Göring, despite his tough words, feared a conflict with Italy; It would split the Axis in two and lead to nuclear devastation in much of Europe. When Mussolini refused to fold, he had to find a way to save face.
The Führer invited Mussolini to a summit in Bern, ostensibly to discuss "matters of importance related to the military cooperation between the two nations." Of course, in reality, it was an attempt for Göring to avoid both war and humiliation. Mussolini's demands included the retention of the Italian nuclear stockpile and the recognition of Italy as an equal power to Germany. Göring wanted the dismantlement of the Italian nuclear program and the end to any future nuclear testing by any Axis nation.
The compromise settled on was thus: Italy would destroy its nuclear stockpile and dismantle its nuclear program. In return, the German leadership would recognize Italy as a truly independent nation equal to the Reich. The two leaders returned home having gotten what they wanted, satisfied that war had been avoided and the alliance had been saved. Of course, Mussolini had no intention of actually surrendering the Italian nuclear stockpile. Instead, he ordered the entire operation be moved to Africa, where it could be hidden from the Germans. All actual testing was put to a halt, but construction continued.
Il Duce would never see the consequences of that action. His age caught up to him on June 20, 1961, and he died peacefully in his sleep. His successor was Italo Balbo, an advocate of Italy asserting its independence and an opponent of anti-Jewish racial laws. Upon becoming Prime Minister and Duce, Balbo set about reversing Italy's racial laws, once again defying Berlin by allowing Jews to live as mostly full citizens.
Italy's new dictator refused to march in goosestep with the Reich, ignoring German wishes when deciding on policy matters
Balbo oversaw a liberalization in the Italian economy. The corporatist economic structure was slowly dissolved, and free-market competition was introduced. With competition came growth, as firms cut costs and increased quality to appeal to the people. Consumer goods like televisions became widespread. This liberalization sparked a rapid growth in the Italian economy. From 1960 to 1970, Italy's GDP doubled, and Italians became known as the wealthiest members of the Axis. Unlike Germans, Italians saw their standard of living grow by the year, creating a satisfaction with the regime that had to be enforced at gunpoint in the Reich. German reformists looked at Italy as a prime example of the kind of economy they wanted to create.
With this new wealth, Balbo looked to modernize the Italian military. Old, Second Great War-era weapons were replaced with modern arms. The navy and air force, in particular, were rapidly expanded, upgraded with new jets and ships. As time passed, Italy's reputation for military incompetence waned; although the Italian military could not stand up to the Wehrmacht, it was still an effective force on its own.
The new Duce sought to pursue Italianization across the empire. Aggressive efforts to expand the colonization efforts to Egypt, Palestine and Syria were undertaken, with little success. In Egypt, Italians went from comprising 10% of the population in 1960 to only 15% in 1970. In Palestine and Syria, the percentage of Italians hovered around 10% by the end of the decade. Balbo too focused on Italianizing East Africa, but settlement of that region was even slower; by 1970, only one in twenty Ethiopians were Italian in origin.
Balbo also sought to allow for more cultural freedom. Italian films were not subject to the same sort of censorship that existed under the Mussolini regime, and thus could venture into themes that were previously prohibited. The promotion of conservative values was no longer a requirement for a film to avoid censorship, prompting a creative explosion in Italian film. Cinecittà, the large film studio constructed during Mussolini's reign, was expanded, and similar studios were opened in Milan, Venice, Genoa, Florence, Naples and even Tunis.
Italy increasingly seemed like a modern, developed nation, with the average citizen having wealth approaching (but not meeting) that of the US and UK. Cars were not luxuries; they were common staples of living, with most working-class families having at least one. The people had much to spend on, too, with consumer goods and films making a resurgence in Italy. This prosperity had ripple effects through the coming decades, as Italy largely avoided the suffering and discontent that would plague its northern neighbor.
Italy gained a reputation for wealth and prosperity within the Axis
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Bookmark1995
Banned
Balbo actually seems to be doing some good. Of course, their neighbor to the north might be furious about that.
Is he planning to reach out to the Rio Pact, or does he seem them as a dangerous menace?
And how many Jews are still alive in Italy?
Is he planning to reach out to the Rio Pact, or does he seem them as a dangerous menace?
And how many Jews are still alive in Italy?
I Hope Balbo is able to position Italy so it won't go down with the sinking ship that is the 3rd Reich. What of the Italian Military? Balbo by all accounts was far more able that Mussolini. So even if the Italian military was a second rate force, Balbo should have also overhauled it to be more formidable after taking power. Also, how have the natives been treated in the Italian colonies? Are there efforts to "italianize" them? Do non-Christians face religious discrimination?
Once all those Slavs/Poles designated for death are starved or exterminated through harsh labor, how will the Nazi economy make up for the subsequent shortage in expendable unskilled labor (besides broadening their definition of subhuman to include certain types of French, Hungarian, Romanian etc)?
Since the German people have long grown accustomed to such a luxurious quality of life with most manual labor, dirty, and dangerous jobs given to slaves meant to die (outside of the Reich plantations that is), it will prove to be a difficult obstacle for the Reich to overcome.
They can't exactly conjure up millions of expendable laborers out of thin air once they've killed off the original pool in Generalplan Ost.
Looks to Africa...
Or they may just decide to instead of simply wiping out their Slavic to instead to keep just enough around for a stable breeding population. For an indefinite supply of slave labor and that's not even factoring in the possibility of selectively breeding their more productive slaves together and exterminating the less productive ones.
I forgot about the millions of Africans under Nazi rule. Exactly how large is the African population in Reich territories?
There are a fair few Germans in the Balkans thanks to the days when Austria and Austria-Hungary held sway, such as the Banat Swabians that would be found in northern Serbia and southwestern Romania.
While I guess you could have some random ass enclave of Germany wedged in between Serbia, Romania, and Hungary, I think it's more likely that they'd have the Danube Swabians resettled in the eastern territories. (I don't know the exact numbers, but there are at least a few hundred thousand Germans in southern Europe.)
And I guess that's clarification on Egypt, Syria, and Palestine.
It looks like Greater Italy and Greater Germany will both be sticking around.
While I guess you could have some random ass enclave of Germany wedged in between Serbia, Romania, and Hungary, I think it's more likely that they'd have the Danube Swabians resettled in the eastern territories. (I don't know the exact numbers, but there are at least a few hundred thousand Germans in southern Europe.)
And I guess that's clarification on Egypt, Syria, and Palestine.
It looks like Greater Italy and Greater Germany will both be sticking around.
Wonder if Balbo and possibly both Franco and Salazar could arrange for the "purchase" of "excess" laborers from the Reich. To aid in the further settlement and development of their overseas colonies.
With Goering shipping off some of the Reich's Slavic slaves to Italian and Portuguese colonies, has unwitting settlers. In exchange for money or some fine goods entering his personal bank account. With the Slavic settlers getting culturally assimilated overtime.
With Goering shipping off some of the Reich's Slavic slaves to Italian and Portuguese colonies, has unwitting settlers. In exchange for money or some fine goods entering his personal bank account. With the Slavic settlers getting culturally assimilated overtime.
I'm not necessarily sure that most Germans are living a luxurious life supported by Untermenche slaves. They aren't the Draka who wanted to create an aristocratic caste, the Nazis had very specific ideas about what sort of way-of-life a proper Aryan man should have that fetishised back-to-the-land self-sufficiency and a certain degree of disdain towards the old aristocratic classes. I imagine that most of the slave labour is only occurring in the conquered eastern territories, whilst their core territories are probably promoting polices that protect and encourage proper jobs for hard-working Aryan men.
Democracy isn't likely, unless Balbo has radically changed as a person. He was a committed fascist, who was instrumental in the march on Rome. He's also believed to have straight up killed an anti-fascist cleric.
It will be hard for the Nazi's to hide Italy's prosperity from the other residents of the Axis. Will some of the other states try to adopt Italian style reforms?
The number of Slavs under Nazi rule at the end of the war far exceeds the numbers needed for the sort of slave population the Reich would use. Obviously farm laborers in the east would be more numerous than those in more "civilized" areas. In any case the Nazis would simply use extermination through labor and starvation along with selected killings (anyone considered dangerous or educated) to get to the numbers needed. To the extent mechanization reduced the need for things like farm laborers, the population would be shrunk either through natural attrition or more active means.
I can certainly see Africans being imported as needed, and also the development of experimental breeding programs to produce the "right sort" of Untermenschen. Breeding Africans and Slavs produces highly visible (dark skin) slaves, a good characteristic. I could go on - specialized breeding for size (large or small) and so forth. There is no racial pollution between Untermenschen, as long as the special category of Jews is not involved. The Nazis will have zero reluctance to get the numbers where they need them, and people are people and sex leads to babies so maintaining a population is easy and adding Africans is also easy. Always remember when it comes to dealing with racial inferiors the Nazis have less than zero moral qualms.
I can certainly see Africans being imported as needed, and also the development of experimental breeding programs to produce the "right sort" of Untermenschen. Breeding Africans and Slavs produces highly visible (dark skin) slaves, a good characteristic. I could go on - specialized breeding for size (large or small) and so forth. There is no racial pollution between Untermenschen, as long as the special category of Jews is not involved. The Nazis will have zero reluctance to get the numbers where they need them, and people are people and sex leads to babies so maintaining a population is easy and adding Africans is also easy. Always remember when it comes to dealing with racial inferiors the Nazis have less than zero moral qualms.