Determined to Destroy Us - An Axis Victory Cold War TL

Worth noting that there aren't many Axis refugees in the Rio Pact; it's hard to cross the Channel or trek across the formerly Russian wilderness.

I don't think it's harder to cross the Channel than the Med .
And hum , what happen to the channel islands ?
 
Yeah, sure they will be a conservative Republican elected after having the entire US governement blocked by Conservative (yes Democrats one but still Conservative) :p
Those were southern segregationists. Someone like Nixon or Reagan would be very pro Civil Rights, so they'd escape that taint. And many southern segregationists were very economically liberal as well
 
What's the military balance between the Axis and Rio pact look like? Are the Germans building up a large navy, or are they firmly concentrated on the army, or strategic forces (nuclear submarines/bombers/missiles)?
 
I don't think it's harder to cross the Channel than the Med .

I think it's harder to depart a heavily militarised coast - the front line of the Cold War - under the control of a strong central authority with a strong incentive to stop departures, than leaving a war-torn coast under the occaisional control several competing administrations, none of which particularly want to see the refugees stay.

Enjoying(?!) the timeline, I think it does a very good job of developing plausibly from an improbable starting point. Darkly fascinating stuff.
 
What's the military balance between the Axis and Rio pact look like? Are the Germans building up a large navy, or are they firmly concentrated on the army, or strategic forces (nuclear submarines/bombers/missiles)?

naval superiority goes to the Rio Pact hands down the Germans will have a few tricks with their sub force but that's it Germany's main deterrent should be in their rockets and bombers.
 
I think it's harder to depart a heavily militarised coast - the front line of the Cold War - under the control of a strong central authority with a strong incentive to stop departures, than leaving a war-torn coast under the occaisional control several competing administrations, none of which particularly want to see the refugees stay.

Enjoying(?!) the timeline, I think it does a very good job of developing plausibly from an improbable starting point. Darkly fascinating stuff.

ITTL, people will say that the Nazi Reich was the world's largest prison, and even the Aryans were little more than prisoners with some privileges.
 
I would expect the South to receive less 'pork' under the new administration.

I don't think so. Johnson is the kind of person who is elected to get pork. Regardless of the antagonism he has received from his own party, he would rather want to win the South back rather then alienate Southern whites out of a grudge.
 
Outside of those they were trying to get rid of or eliminate anyways, I don't think you'll see an especially large number of people trying to flee. Certainly not enough to create any kind of popular image of desperate refugees crossing the Channel in dingy little boats or whatever.

Say what you want about "Grr! Authoritarianism bad!", but at the end of the day life for the average citizen of the Reich is going to be pretty stable and even mundane. You can't really compare it to the situation with North Korea. Not least of which because of that all important thing they call food.

Yes. Food. The land that makes up North Korea is just really goddamn poor when it comes to agricultural pursuits, which makes starvation a serious concern. Which is one of those things that make people desperate enough to flee that country.

When you're fucked no matter what, the stuff you're talking about makes sense. But the shit show that is North Korea OTL just isn't the kind of situation that will be faced by the German people.
 
Outside of those they were trying to get rid of or eliminate anyways, I don't think you'll see an especially large number of people trying to flee. Certainly not enough to create any kind of popular image of desperate refugees crossing the Channel in dingy little boats or whatever.

Say what you want about "Grr! Authoritarianism bad!", but at the end of the day life for the average citizen of the Reich is going to be pretty stable and even mundane. You can't really compare it to the situation with North Korea. Not least of which because of that all important thing they call food.

Yes. Food. The land that makes up North Korea is just really goddamn poor when it comes to agricultural pursuits, which makes starvation a serious concern. Which is one of those things that make people desperate enough to flee that country.

When you're fucked no matter what, the stuff you're talking about makes sense. But the shit show that is North Korea OTL just isn't the kind of situation that will be faced by the German people.


But the situation could very well evolve.
 
The key word there is 'could'. Only time, and Sirpaperweight, will tell if that happens.

I'm not an optimist. I well aware that most Germans tolerate the Reich because of food and the ecstasy of conquering Europe. The Reich was a giant clusterfuck, not a model of Germanic Efficiency, that only won initial victories because of the stupidity and shortsightedness of its opponents. Since they won, I doubt those Nazis, made arrogant by their victory and spoils, will be eager to do any kind of reform, which will doom them in the long term.
 
I'm not an optimist. I well aware that most Germans tolerate the Reich because of food and the ecstasy of conquering Europe. The Reich was a giant clusterfuck, not a model of Germanic Efficiency, that only won initial victories because of the stupidity and shortsightedness of its opponents. Since they won, I doubt those Nazis, made arrogant by their victory and spoils, will be eager to do any kind of reform, which will doom them in the long term.
Oh I completely agree. The Reich's just not DPRK-level (domestically speaking).
 
I have read through this and I love it so far. I've actually thought of an Axis cold war timeline myself, and this is nice to see. Hopefully the US can recover from such a divisive election quickly.
 
I have another question. Does the US still maintain diplomatic relations with other Axis nations like Hungary and Romania, or have all those other nations been lumped with the Nazis (which is not exactly unfair, considering their collaboration with the Final Solution and other Nazi military endeavors) and given the diplomatic equivalent of "talk to the hand"? Or does the US still maintain ties with other Axis nations in an attempt to influence their policies and perform espionage?
 
I have read through this and I love it so far. I've actually thought of an Axis cold war timeline myself, and this is nice to see. Hopefully the US can recover from such a divisive election quickly.
Admittedly I always wanted to see a timeline that deals with an Axis cold war, between Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire. With the unites states getting defeated and carved up in the 50's, ala High Castle.
 

QueerSpear

Banned
Admittedly I always wanted to see a timeline that deals with an Axis cold war, between Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire. With the unites states getting defeated and carved up in the 50's, ala High Castle.

That's ASB- even working together tightly the Germans and Japanese never had any chance of invading or occupying the USA.

I mean, the Nazis were incapable of defeating a puny little island so how could they defeat a gargantuan powerhouse like the USA without divine intervention?
 
Even among the Aryans of the Reich, who will be getting the best of everything and have a standard of living that is quite good, you'd find people who are so turned off by the system they would want to leave. Naturally, the lower down the ladder you are, the more likely you are to feel the risk of trying to escape is worth it. Of course, the lower you are the harder it would be to travel from where you are to any border. Unlike the American South prior to the ACW, the distances are much greater and everywhere except parts of what used to be Russia there isn't a lot of wilderness to hide in during your journey. Furthermore, while OTL white abolitionists in the South who were with the Underground Railroad risked jail or perhaps ending up being forced to leave where they lived, in the Reich the consequences of aiding an escapee mean an unpleasant death for you and your family.

The very worst of the Nazi excesses will not be in the face of most Reich citizens. Seeing slaves, even slaves being disciplined by whipping and so forth won't really upset most citizens. Lots of societies have been accustomed to seeing slavery in front of them every day without large numbers of folks getting turned off by it. Death camps, slaves used for medical experiments, torture of prisoners will all be out of sight.
 
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