Bush vs. The Axis of Evil - TL

[dorkasky]

Later Gundam series post-SEED might be different too; possibly in SEED Destiny, the Blue Cosmos organization might be more of an allegory for Hezbollah rather than in OTL.

In Gundam 00, Marina Ismail might be made into an allegory of Marjane Satrapi of all people (with a woman Iranian president and that).

G-Reco is probably a criticism of Japanese remilitarization and nuclearization. AGE might set up Vagan as the North Korean-like faction.

 

[MagicalPhantom345]

Later Gundam series post-SEED might be different too; possibly in SEED Destiny, the Blue Cosmos organization might be more of an allegory for Hezbollah rather than in OTL.

In Gundam 00, Marina Ismail might be made into an allegory of Marjane Satrapi of all people (with a woman Iranian president and that).

G-Reco is probably a criticism of Japanese remilitarization and nuclearization. AGE might set up Vagan as the North Korean-like faction.

Funny you mentioned SEED, because discussions about the third film actually talk about how the films central theme is "Absolute peace is impossible". So I say that the AU won't change all that much from canon.
Although hopefully they got better writing talent for SEED Destiny.

On another note, how did Hiyao Miyazaki react to North Korea's attack on Japan?

 

[dorkasky]

I don't know, since I am not Sorairo, but I guess horrified at the attacks like everyone else.

 

[athgtq16129]

By the way @Sorairo, after around a week of work, here is the more-or-less accurate (I have not read the novel version yet, so I cannot make a 100% accurate world map) WorldA map of the world of Bush vs. the Axis of Evil in the year of 2024, complete with OTL insurgencies, minus Libya, Syria, and Afghanistan, which I am assuming have little to no insurgencies in the 2010s, but other than that, it is roughly the same wars and borders of OTL, except for maybe the dark black color representing OTL ISIL in West Africa and Somalia could instead be representing a different Jihadist group ITTL.

The colored dots in Brazil, Bolivia Peru, and West Papua are isolated tribes.

I have also been working on revamped and enhanced present-day maps of The Footprint of Mussolini and The Death of Russia, expect them to be uploaded within the next few days or the next week or so, as the final thank you letter to the Sorairoverse, I really want to see Sorairo all of the maps before he logs off!

Spoiler: Normal WorldA map without the artworks.

Here are the final world maps I made for The Death of Russia and The Footprint of Mussolini, as a final goodbye letter to the Sorairoverse.

Spoiler: Credits and sources

The map itself - Next-Gen WorldA map scheme by @hadaril on this very forum.

Internal conflict in Myanmar, and most but not all WorldA coastline fixes - @iori also on this forum, I also planned to add some fixes by @Library of Alexandria but I forgot to, I am also too incompetent to know how to properly add Iori's pacific islands coastline revamps, so the ones you see here are the default ones.

Insurgencies, isolated tribes, etc. - Constantly-updated OTL Q-BAM map with all conflicts, insurgencies, de-facto militia control, and isolated tribes, by YeastCartography on DeviantArt

"BUSH VS. THE AXIS OF EVIL" font and iron line dividing the map - (I assume) either Sorairo himself or an artist that he hired to draw the cover of the physical book of this story

Art on the upper left - Time Magazine cover of 3 March 2003

Art on the upper right - Dear Leader Mints, Bullet-Shaped Candy Inspired by Kim Jong Il / Kim Jong-il Dear Leader Centaur Oil Painting by Archie McPhee

Art on the bottom left - "The Twilight of the Iranian Revolution" 2020 article on the New Yorker

Art on the bottom right - 1999 Iraqi propaganda painting showing Saddam Hussein as an ancient Mesopotamian king on a lion hunt

"Here we go again.... again. epic quote - Scorcher IV (2008) film trailer, starring action film legend Tugg Speedman

I made most of the color schemes and idiosyncratic borders and territorial water lines myself.

Edit: Added the Ulytau Region of Kazakhstan, the North Borneo Dispute, and more minor QoL fixes.

 

[Mitridates the Great]

Later Gundam series post-SEED might be different too; possibly in SEED Destiny, the Blue Cosmos organization might be more of an allegory for Hezbollah rather than in OTL.

In Gundam 00, Marina Ismail might be made into an allegory of Marjane Satrapi of all people (with a woman Iranian president and that).

G-Reco is probably a criticism of Japanese remilitarization and nuclearization. AGE might set up Vagan as the North Korean-like faction.

I personally can't think of any reason why Gundam would undergo a rewrite as severe as the one described above simply because world geopolitics are different.

In any case, if there was a rewrite of Gundam SEED, I could see them going to the opposite extreme: the North American-based country, the Atlantic Federation (that aggressive, militaristic, openly genocidal Nazi-like entity led by what I can only describe as a hybrid between the SS and the Bilderberg Club) becomes more similar to the Eurasian Federation (arrogant, warmongering, willing to be brutal, but ultimately good or at least not as evil as Canon AF).

While it is the East Asian Republic that inherits all the characteristics of the Atlantic Federation and mixes them with characteristics of North Korea.

And of course Orb is more militaristic and the Seiran either don't exist or are pro-China.

I also highly doubt that any Gundam faction was going to become North Korea lite. That's more a projection of American Manichaean views than anything related to the series. Although I could see the writer of Alndoah Zero turning the Vers Empire into North Korea, at the very least Canon Vers is basically North Korea with Wunderwaffen already.

 

[MagicalPhantom345]

I personally can't think of any reason why Gundam would undergo a rewrite as severe as the one described above simply because world geopolitics are different.

In any case, if there was a rewrite of Gundam SEED, I could see them going to the opposite extreme: the North American-based country, the Atlantic Federation (that aggressive, militaristic, openly genocidal Nazi-like entity led by what I can only describe as a hybrid between the SS and the Bilderberg Club) becomes more similar to the Eurasian Federation (arrogant, warmongering, willing to be brutal, but ultimately good or at least not as evil as Canon AF).

While it is the East Asian Republic that inherits all the characteristics of the Atlantic Federation and mixes them with characteristics of North Korea.

And of course Orb is more militaristic and the Seiran either don't exist or are pro-China.

Since we are talking about changes to Gunda AU's, here's one that came to me when sleeping. Kira Yamato's will go through a character arc see's him accept how naive and hypocritical his ideals are from his actions, and accepts that people will hate him for his actions regardless of how well meaning the intentions and results are. Basically it's a analog from the foreign policy of Paul Wellstone back to George Bush jr.
Lacus meanwhile becomes an analog for president Kin Dae-jun politicking for diplomacy but does an about face in the wake of her assassination attempt, all the while aware of the irony of her situation from that of her predecessor. Symbolized by her transition from the innocent pop idol to hardened rock star at her political rally turned music concert.

Although I have to ask: What song would suit Lacus going full rock star/metal head?

 

[TimTurner]

By the way @Sorairo, after around a week of work, here is the more-or-less accurate (I have not read the novel version yet, so I cannot make a 100% accurate world map) WorldA map of the world of Bush vs. the Axis of Evil in the year of 2024, complete with OTL insurgencies, minus Libya, Syria, and Afghanistan, which I am assuming have little to no insurgencies in the 2010s, but other than that, it is roughly the same wars and borders of OTL, except for maybe the dark black color representing OTL ISIL in West Africa and Somalia could instead be representing a different Jihadist group ITTL.

I have also been working on revamped and enhanced present-day maps of The Footprint of Mussolini and The Death of Russia, expect them to be uploaded within the next few days or the next week or so, as the final thank you letter to the Sorairoverse, I really want to see Sorairo all of the maps before he logs off!

Spoiler: Normal WorldA map without all of the autistic aesthetics.

Spoiler: Credits and sources

The map itself - Next-Gen WorldA map scheme by @hadaril on this very forum.

Internal conflict in Myanmar, and most but not all WorldA coastline fixes - @iori also on this forum

Insurgencies, isolated tribes, etc. - Constantly-updated OTL Q-BAM map with all conflicts, insurgencies, de-facto militia control, and isolated tribes, by YeastCartography on DeviantArt

"BUSH VS. THE AXIS OF EVIL" font and iron line dividing the map - (I assume) either Sorairo himself or an artist that he hired to draw the cover of the physical book of this story

Art on the upper left - Time Magazine cover of 3 March 2003

Art on the upper right - Dear Leader Mints, Bullet-Shaped Candy Inspired by Kim Jong Il / Kim Jong-il Dear Leader Centaur Oil Painting by Archie McPhee

Art on the bottom left - "The Twilight of the Iranian Revolution" 2020 article on the New Yorker

Art on the bottom right - 1999 Iraqi propaganda painting showing Saddam Hussein as an ancient Mesopotamian king on a lion hunt

"Here we go again.... again. epic quote - Scorcher IV (2008) film trailer, starring action film legend Tugg Speedman

I made most of the color schemes and idiosyncratic borders and territorial water lines myself.

Great work.

 

[muddyleathers]

An immoral rival, but they feel no visceral connection to the Palestinians, especially since Hamas and Cairo are allies.

With that, I’m about to go on a flight to Taiwan - my answer responses will slow for a time but will pick up before I go permanently on the 15th.

I respect your decision, but loathe your action defying our collective thought of your wisdom.

 

[Aluma]

I respect your decision, but loathe your action defying our collective thought of your wisdom.

This sounds like something straight out of a asian novel

 

[athgtq16129]

Okay so, how do people in this thread think that Sorairo would have written a Second American Civil War (between the 1990s-2000s, due to the no recent politics rule) timeline?, and how would he portray the POD, the war in general, its effect on international relations, and the aftermath of the war?

Would he do it similarly to The Death of Russia, including nukes being launched in the climax, foreign armies intervening in the war, a clear winning side (unlike in TDOR where both the Fascists and the Communists nuked themselves), the US balkanizing into different countries, or would he be more grounded, with no nukes being used at any point, the war not lasting too long given the US Army intervening, and after the war, the separatist states recognize that they cannot survive on their own, so the United States remains united, albeit heavily weakened and no longer a superpower?

 

[Fratsup]

Okay so, how do people in this thread think that Sorairo would have written a Second American Civil War (between the 1990s-2000s, due to the no recent politics rule) timeline?, and how would he portray the POD, the war in general, its effect on international relations, and the aftermath of the war?

Honestly it would probably not be made since even if its with that POD there are way to many connections to current day politics.

 

[Pax_Nihil]

Okay so, how do people in this thread think that Sorairo would have written a Second American Civil War (between the 1990s-2000s, due to the no recent politics rule) timeline?, and how would he portray the POD, the war in general, its effect on international relations, and the aftermath of the war?

Would he do it similarly to The Death of Russia, including nukes being launched in the climax, foreign armies intervening in the war, a clear winning side (unlike in TDOR where both the Fascists and the Communists nuked themselves), the US balkanizing into different countries, or would he be more grounded, with no nukes being used at any point, the war not lasting too long given the US Army intervening, and after the war, the separatist states recognize that they cannot survive on their own, so the United States remains united, albeit heavily weakened and no longer a superpower?

Not to burst your bubble.... but he never did that and never (to my knowledge) publicly mentioned working on a timeline of that nature, so to speculate in that regard strikes me as frivolity, so I don't have anything to say about that except that I think he would definitely be tactful and keep it as realistic qs possible if he /had/ decided to make a story about ACW2: Electric Boogaloo o:

 

[Lalli]

Okay so, how do people in this thread think that Sorairo would have written a Second American Civil War (between the 1990s-2000s, due to the no recent politics rule) timeline?, and how would he portray the POD, the war in general, its effect on international relations, and the aftermath of the war?

Would he do it similarly to The Death of Russia, including nukes being launched in the climax, foreign armies intervening in the war, a clear winning side (unlike in TDOR where both the Fascists and the Communists nuked themselves), the US balkanizing into different countries, or would he be more grounded, with no nukes being used at any point, the war not lasting too long given the US Army intervening, and after the war, the separatist states recognize that they cannot survive on their own, so the United States remains united, albeit heavily weakened and no longer a superpower?

How there even would be Second ACW in 1990s? You would need much earlier POD. And IMO that is bit overused idea anyway.

 

[Mitridates the Great]

How there even would be Second ACW in 1990s? You would need much earlier POD. And IMO that is bit overused idea anyway.

I would also add that not only is the idea overused, but most of the ones I see stick to the same plot, to a point where they look like multiple attempts at remakes of the same story with some minor changes.

 

[Fratsup]

I would also add that not only is the idea overused, but most of the ones I see stick to the same plot, to a point where they look like multiple attempts at remakes of the same story with some minor changes.

The problem is that for one there are not a lot of ways to get a second American Civil War and that a lot Second American Civil War scenarios/timelines are wanks for the same progressive/left wing ideology which further makes them all seem the same.

 

[Mitridates the Great]

The problem is that for one there are not a lot of ways to get a second American Civil War and that a lot Second American Civil War scenarios/timelines are wanks for the same progressive/left wing ideology which further makes them all seem the same.

Yes, that is exactly my experience: everyone follows the same political and ideological patterns and does not deviate from them.

Also the few attempts to mention problems of external context (economic crisis, climate change, etc.) are always mentioned in such an obtuse way that they seem more like an attempt by the author to force the inclusion of the topic because he believes that his audience wants that than something that emerge integrally in history.

I mean when the authors introduce the new problems in such a way that what you get is that it's a big problem that suddenly appears and for some reason everyone decides to forget about what they were doing so far and focus all their efforts on this problem.

Also when the author deliberately ignores the effects these problems would realistically have. Here I think of the classic "China becomes ridiculously aggressive, expansionist and militaristic, and starts launching wars of aggression exploiting the fact that there are no longer US troops deployed to 'keep them in check' abroad"...

...when realistically, it is more likely that this enormous economic crisis would cause China to be too busy trying to prevent the implosion of its own economy to think about wasting increasingly scarce money and resources on invading its neighbors.

 

[Fratsup]

Really any Second American Civil War would have to happen before WW2 and during the Great Depression and even then would still require some changes before then. The problem is that almost all of these scenarios tend to only occur so the author can make a socialist/communist/leftist ideological wank since I do not think I have ever seen the rightist factions win such a civil war.

 

[Mitridates the Great]

Really any Second American Civil War would have to happen before WW2 and during the Great Depression and even then would still require some changes before then. The problem is that almost all of these scenarios tend to only occur so the author can make a socialist/communist/leftist ideological wank since I do not think I have ever seen the rightist factions win such a civil war.

Normally that's because right-wing factions are portrayed as suddenly deciding to embrace their inner Nazi and become so ridiculously, cartoonishly evil that chances are, assuming by some miracle they managed to win, they would soon implode from mass uprisings of people rebelling. ...not out of adherence to some obscure ideological principle that no one outside of "r/edgeleftism" cares about... but simply because they don't want to be murdered by the new regime.

 

[Fratsup]

Normally that's because right-wing factions are portrayed as suddenly deciding to embrace their inner Nazi and become so ridiculously, cartoonishly evil that chances are, assuming by some miracle they managed to win, they would soon implode from mass uprisings of people rebelling. ...not out of adherence to some obscure ideological principle that no one outside of "r/edgeleftism" cares about... but simply because they don't want to be murdered by the new regime.

I mean has that ever happened in history? Most regiments of that type tend to actually support the majority population and tend to get the population in line. Plus considering history most uprisings tend to be crushed anyways.

 

[MagicalPhantom345]

Okay so, how do people in this thread think that Sorairo would have written a Second American Civil War (between the 1990s-2000s, due to the no recent politics rule) timeline?, and how would he portray the POD, the war in general, its effect on international relations, and the aftermath of the war?

The problem is that for one there are not a lot of ways to get a second American Civil War and that a lot Second American Civil War scenarios/timelines are wanks for the same progressive/left wing ideology which further makes them all seem the same.

Yes, that is exactly my experience: everyone follows the same political and ideological patterns and does not deviate from them.

Also the few attempts to mention problems of external context (economic crisis, climate change, etc.) are always mentioned in such an obtuse way that they seem more like an attempt by the author to force the inclusion of the topic because he believes that his audience wants that than something that emerge integrally in history.

I mean when the authors introduce the new problems in such a way that what you get is that it's a big problem that suddenly appears and for some reason everyone decides to forget about what they were doing so far and focus all their efforts on this problem.

Really any Second American Civil War would have to happen before WW2 and during the Great Depression and even then would still require some changes before then. The problem is that almost all of these scenarios tend to only occur so the author can make a socialist/communist/leftist ideological wank since I do not think I have ever seen the rightist factions win such a civil war.

You guys want a Second American Civil War? Go check out "For the Republic" by @The Angry Observer