The NextGen OTL Worlda Series

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by hadaril, Jan 30, 2018.

Loading...
  1. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    Hadaril's NextGen OTL Worlda Maps

    This project is a complete modernization of the multiple OTL Worlda's floating around the forums and the wiki. Previously, our collection of worlda's was a haphazard mess of maps, most of which were completely antiquated (Rectangular base maps, anyone?). Almost every OTL map was built on a different edition of the blank Worlda, utilizing a disjointed mess of color schemes ranging from UCS to TACOS. Borders were all over the place, in many cases wildly inaccurate, and in every case highly inconsistent with the rest of the Worlda's. For example, the Czech border, which has remained (for the most part) unchanged since the 1100's, was drawn differently on almost every worlda.

    The NextGen Worlda Series cleans up this mess. In this series:
    • All maps are drawn on the most recent edition of the blank worlda
    • Utilize a standard and consistent color scheme (Dubbed the "NextGen Color Scheme", NCS for short)
    • Borders remain consistent and accurate over time.
    Of course, not all Worlda maps could be salvaged. The first generation of worldas was built on the rectangular worlda, which is so wildly far off from the modern version that updating them would require tremendous work. Some years were simply omitted due to redundency (ex: having a 1100 AD and a 1115 AD map).


    Blank Worlda's and Resources
    Blank Worlda
    Blank Europe
    NCS Color Scheme
    .PSD blank map with editable labels

    Ancient and Classical Era
    1350 BC
    600 BC
    500 BC
    250 BC
    1 AD
    200 AD
    250 AD
    476 AD

    Medieval Era
    500 AD
    565 AD
    650 AD
    710 AD
    814 AD
    843 AD
    900 AD
    962 AD
    1000 AD
    1115 AD
    1200 AD
    1250 AD
    1300 AD
    1350 AD

    Early Modern Era
    1400 AD
    1444 AD
    1500 AD
    1550 AD
    1600 AD
    1648 AD
    1700 AD
    1748 AD

    Revolutionary Era
    1776 AD
    1803 AD
    1806 AD
    1812 AD
    1815 AD
    1848 AD
    1861 AD

    First World War
    1914 AD
    1920 AD

    Interbellum
    1932 AD
    1939 AD

    Second World War
    1940 AD
    1941 AD
    1942 AD
    1943 AD
    1944 AD
    1945 AD

    Cold War Era
    1946 AD
    1960 AD
    1980 AD

    Millenium Dawn
    2000 AD
    2017 AD

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Deprecated/Under Revision
    117 AD
    150 AD
    300 AD
    350 AD
    400 AD
    750 AD

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Note: Any changes will be posted at the same url as above - i.e, if the 565 map is updated, the URL will be the same.

    Many thanks to:..
    - Salem for his help on the 1648 map
    - Viralworld for his amazing 1748 & 1848 maps
    - Bob Hope for his amazing 1803 & 1806 maps, as well as his 1812 corrections.
    - All the wonderful feedback from everyone on this thread!
    - The Maps and Flags discord for feedback, advice, and corrections!
    - FancyHat for his amazing 4.0 basemap.



    Update Log
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    February 2, 2018:
    - Added 814 Map
    - Minor fixes: 843, 710

    February 15, 2018:
    - Added 1350 BC
    - Added 650 BC
    - (475, 565, 1000, 1115, 1350) Fixed Byzantium Color
    - (ALL MAPS) Fixed / Standardized sahara borders
    - (ALL MAPS) Minor alterations to borders in cacuasus
    - (1000) Minor fix to Baluchistani & Uzbek borders
    - (843) Minor fixes to some central asian borders.

    February 22, 2018:
    - Added 500 BC
    - Added 250 BC
    - (1776 Onwards): Fixed error with Vermont/New Hampshire/Maine Border

    February 26, 2018:
    - (2000, 2017): Colored Crimea
    - (2000, 2017): Fixed Belize color
    - (World War 2): Fixed Bolivian border disputes.

    April 1st, 2018:
    - Uploaded the 3.0 Blank Map.

    May 18th, 2018:
    - RELEASE OF THE 3.0 SERIES
    - Overhaul of every map to fit the correct blank map
    - Massive detail added outside and inside of Europe!
    - Added 1250 AD
    - Added 1600 AD

    May 23rd, 2018:
    - Added 117 AD
    - Added 250 AD
    - Added 400 AD

    May 23rd, 2018:
    - (400 AD) Fixed an issue where Japan was not colored.

    June 4th, 2018 (Hadaril's Birthday Update!):
    - (117) Removed Holland from the Roman Empire
    - (117, 250) Fixed Roman provincial borders in the M.East & Alps
    - (1650) Removed Netherlands from HRE
    - (1815) Added Belgium to the Netherlands
    - (1861, 1914) Fixed Finish/Russian border in Petsamo
    - (1914 to 1946) Fixed de-jure and de-facto statuses of Newfoundland

    July 29th, 2018:
    - RELEASE OF THE 3.5 SERIES
    - ALL MAPS UPDATED TO NCS 3.5
    - Semi-major revisions to many pre-1800 maps.
    - Added detail to many medieval states.
    - Added a link to a .psd file with editable labels.

    August, 18th, 2018:
    - Added 150 AD
    - Added 200 AD
    - Minor fixes to a few borders in the 117 AD map.
    - Added threadmarks for additional resources in this thread.

    August 19th, 2018:
    - Added 250 AD
    - Added 300 AD
    - Added 350 AD
    - Added 476 AD
    - Added 500 AD
    - Added 650 AD

    August 27th, 2018:
    - Added 750
    - Added 900
    - Added 962
    - Minor revisions 700, 814, 842

    September 4th, 2018:
    - Updated NCS to 4.0 (No major color changes - only additions)

    September 29th, 2018:
    - (1, 476, 565, 650, 710, 750, 814) Revised maps with many of the earlier borders from LSCatilina's maps.
    - (1960, 1980, 2000, 2017): Fixed Ryukyu Ownership, Fixed island off Taiwan's coast, changed Korea's coloring.

    October 8th, 2018:
    - (1, 476, 565, 650, 710) Additional revisions made based on feedback from LSCatilina.
    - (1914, 1920) Added new 1914 and 1920 maps made by Admiral A. Kolchak.
    - (750) Marked as deprecated.

    November 3rd, 2018:
    - Added 100 AD
    - (1, 200) Revised Central Asia
    - (117, 150, 250, 300, 350, 400, 500) Marked as deprecated.

    November 22nd, 2018 (Happy thanksgiving!):
    - Added revisd 500, 710, 814, and 843 maps.
    - (476) Revised Indian, East Asian, African borders

    November 25nd, 2018:
    - Added revisd 900 & 1648 maps.
    - Minor fixes to 843.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 12:10 AM
  2. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    snip.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
    Petike and JorgeGG like this.
  3. Witch0Winter Witch ❄️f Winter (formerly ToixStory) Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Location:
    The Empire State of the South
    These are amazing, and so are you.
     
    hadaril and Analytical Engine like this.
  4. Turquoise Blue Blossoming Tibby! Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Location:
    Europe
    @hadaril: Nice. But in the 2017 one, Britain and Ireland are denoted as being out of the EU. "Brexit" is not planned until 2019, and Ireland never left.
     
  5. Ashtagon Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2014
    Two comments.

    1 - Although my comments on the accuracy of the QBAM base map are well-known at this poit, the worlda has projection inaccuracies too. Given this is intended to be a total revamp, are there plans to ensure that the basemap used will actually be an actually map projection and not a "drawing of a projection"?

    2 - I totally get why a reduced colour scheme is in play here. However, some of the changes are odd. This would literally be the first colour scheme ever to not use the light mauve colour for Belgium. And also I think, the first not to use that dark green for Hungary (which tbh, I'm not so attached to).
     
  6. Alex Richards A mapper I, from near Dar-bai. Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Empire of Nova Elysium
    Could we not have another colour scheme? Please?

    I mean for heaven's sakes we've now got yet another colour for Russia.

    Oh and Ashtagon, yes I get it, you've said time after time that you want to redo everything on a mathematical projection. However, despite offering to assist if you were happy to get the groundwork in, I've yet to see you ever actually do any of the work required to convert a terrain projection into a useful map. So please, unless you're actually going to help with creating the basemaps (even just a 2018 map would be a world of help) just drop it.
     
  7. Ashtagon Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2014
    Hi Alex Richards!!

    There is absolutely nothing more reliable on this site (not even server uptime) than knowing that any time you reply to one of my posts, it will always be highly critical of me. Your criticism would be far more useful if it wasn't so consistent; as it is, it has become mere background noise -- a kind of persistent buzzing that I have come to expect whenever I make a post. If there were a way to prevent you from seeing my posts on this site, I truly would. It would clearly save you a lot of heartache each time you pour your soul into criticising me.

    Personally, I'd love to work on the basemaps you, Alex, require of me. However, I have some rather more pressing requirements on my time right now (namely, keeping body and soul together; it's literally a full-time job), which prevent me from learning the mapping skills needed to do the job justice. I do, however, acknowledge that there are people on this site that already do have such skills. I had thought that in the spirit of group cooperation, it would make more sense in a project that would nominally require multiple people (because let's face it, the worlda through time project was never a one-person task) for individuals in the project to focus on the tasks that they are best at.



    As for the basemap used here...

    Iori's basemap is almost a Kavraisky-7 with the poles cropped, except it's vertically flattened about (by around 2%). This appears to be the same basemap picked by hadaril (the maker of this project). I've uploaded a comparison of Kavraiskiy-7 and this basemap for comparison, normalised so the maps coincide around the west coast of Africa.

    Black coast, borders: Kavraiskiy-7 (coasts may have some nominal inaccuracies, as they are taken from a simplified vector-based coast/border model used in g.projector). Note that the K7 basemap extends considerably farther than the hadaril/Iori basemap at both the top and bottom; the hadaril/Iori basemap is cropped at approximately 85° north and south.

    Dark blue coast, light blue seas, green land: Iori/hadari basemap.

    (I could do similar overlays for the hadaril/Iori basemap with other map projections, but Robinson is even farther from the hadaril/Iori basemap, and other well-known map projections in this general oval shape seem to lack advocates entirely on this site).


    test.png

    Edit: Good news for both of us: I think I have found the ignore function on this site.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  8. Alex Richards A mapper I, from near Dar-bai. Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Empire of Nova Elysium
    Which is precisely my point. I similarly do not have the time for such a large project as converting every worlda to a new projection. I had, in fact, become extremely demoralised a couple of years ago by the dawning realisation that apart from myself there perhaps a couple of others who were working on them and that was it. It's one thing to find a bit of time over a few weeks to produce a new map of 1890 or 1985 for example- you can take a lot from existing basemaps. As you're demonstrating with that overlay however, switching to a new projection is essentially starting from scratch.

    Now I acknowledge that it must be annoying that this is basically the same argument I make all the time, but to turn it around, imagine how annoying I find it, when consistently I can pretty much guarantee that every time you've replied to something about the world or Q-BAM it can basically be summed up as 'your projection is wrong, I think you should switch to this one, but I can't do any of the hard graft on it.'

    So if I come across as overly critical of you, it's only because you come across as being, in essence, the equivalent of someone who is standing on the sidelines shouting 'you're doing it wrong' without actually contributing.
     
  9. Witch0Winter Witch ❄️f Winter (formerly ToixStory) Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Location:
    The Empire State of the South
    I'm kind of on the outside of it here, but I guess I don't see why it matters a ton. The world-a, to me, is kind of a definitive AH world map and Hadaril has obviously put a ton of time and effort into his whole thing, and I even like the color scheme since, unlike a lot of the schemes, he also went and made the maps to go along with them. Maybe I'm just not so picky that way. Theoretically I could go on QGIS and pump out a world map roughly the same size in a real projection and try to get everything down to one pixel as a version of the world-a but I don't really feel there is a reason to, I suppose. I think it's fine if people do it on their own, but I'm just happy to still be getting updated world-a maps this far into development.
     
    Fox-Fire, Indicus, merkmuds and 3 others like this.
  10. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Location:
    County of Mark
    A small critique I have to bring up: your Turkey in 1920 shows it in anachronistic borders. Not only does it include Hatay, which joined Turkey only in 1938 (that also means that Hatay is a minor error in the 1932 version), but it also generally follows the borders of the Treaty of Lausanne, which was only signed in 1923. In 1920 the Treaty of Sevres was current.

    Otherwise this is an ambitious little project and I wish you good luck with it. I'm certainly gonna use your versions of the basemaps from time to time ^^
     
    Petike and kodak like this.
  11. SaveAtlacamani Napoleon the Red Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Location:
    United Humanities of Germany
    And exactly this is why I revere @hadaril and called him Lord and Saviour and such. Of course, minor errors like anachronistic borders (@Iserlohn ) need to be addressed, but I would never criticise something like a colour scheme or a different colour for Russia. I love the maps, I revere and nearly worship you, @hadaril , and everything is good!

    WorldA maps are a staple of AH.com and should get updated every few years. And everybody who does that is - in my opinion - worthy of being worshipped. And you do so, which I find excellent!

    @Alex Richards : You also deserve my love, especially for your cooperation (first with Martin23230 and, this year, hopefully with me) regarding the AHFA World Cup, but it is a pity that you got into such a dispute with @Ashtagon who is also deserving of my love for starting the X2 colour scheme, which led to such marvellous creations as the TOASTER and SUCK colour schemes.
     
  12. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    Thanks for all the feedback guys! The idea to make a new color scheme was one I was toying around with for a while, and one that I was really up in the air about. I'm probably going to go back and put everything into RCS, as it's the more conventional choice for Worlda's. I'll be updating the maps to fix the errors you guys pointed out. Keep the feedback coming!

    Edit: I'll be uploading the RCS maps separately.
     
  13. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    Update, February 2nd, 2018:
    - Added 814 Map
    - Slight fixes: 710 and 843
     
  14. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    Also, here's my two cents on the worlda vs. real projection discussion: As much as it would be great to use a realistic map projection, the amount of work it would take simply isn't worth it. It was difficult enough updating the coastlines of older worlda's to the modern one (it involves a *lot* of border revisions to do that) - doing that on such a scale would be a monumental effort. Additionally, there are so many preexisting resources on AH.com that would be completely incompatible. Third, the worlda is something of a cultural icon of this forum - it does its job fine enough in my opinion. Finally, we already have (in my opinion) far too many base maps: Worlda, Qbam, Mbam, Vbam, VTBam, MiniWorlda, etc (I've voiced my gripes with Qbam and VTbam elsewhere - not going to rehash them here :p).
     
    SaveAtlacamani likes this.
  15. SaveAtlacamani Napoleon the Red Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Location:
    United Humanities of Germany
    All hail @hadaril ! Thanks for bringing the WorldA into the next generation!

    During the modern era (post World War II), we would definitely need:
    - 1949
    - 1950
    - 1953 (End of the Korean War)
    - 1959 and/or 1961
    - 1962
    - 1968
    - 1970
    - 1975
    - 1983 (Petrov incident, Able Archer)
    - 1988
    - 1989
    - 1990
    - 1991
    - 2000
    - 2001
    - 2003
    - 2011 (Arab Spring)
    - 2014 (Crimea)
     
  16. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Location:
    Taxachusetts
    @hadaril we need more ancient civilization maps. Specifically(these are all BCE):
    - 3200 (Sumer)
    - 3100 (Early Egypt)
    - 2800 (Kot Diji)
    - 2600 (Harappa)
    - 2100 (Xia)
    - 1600 (Mycenaean Greece and the Shang)
    - 1400 (Olmec)
    - 1100 (Bronze age collapse)
    - 1000 (Zhou)
    - 800 (Greek city states)
    - 700 (Rome and Media)
    - 600 (Maha Janapadas and fall of Assyria))
    - 550 (Rise of Achaemenid Persia)
    - 500 (Greek Golden age)
    - 400 (Decline of Greece and Warring states)
    - 320 (Alexander the Great)
    - 250 (Parthia)
    - 220 (Qin China)
    - 50 (Roman Civil War)
    - 100 AD(Height of Rome)
    - 200 (Srivijaya)
    - 300
     
    Guaire likes this.
  17. merkmuds Singularitarian/Posthumanist/Transhumanist

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Location:
    UK
    Maybe, just maybe, you could fix those yourself. Just a Thought.
     
  18. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Location:
    Taxachusetts
    Ohhh, you!! :mad:
     
  19. Thon Taddeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2008
    The maps show an island between Shanghai and Jeju, but i don't think there is actually any island there.
     
  20. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Location:
    Taxachusetts
    I got so trolled, oh my word.
     
Loading...