AHC: Peerless Air Ministry

[steamboy]

the good thing is that the RN can shuffle its carriers around for the most part as the Germans suffered heavier losses in Norway IIRC and they've still got all three converted follies, the Ark Royal, Eagle and Hermes available and I assume the Argus isn't a training/drone ship any more either. And they'll have Illustrious available and Formidable avaiable soon. This gives the RN 6 large flight decks for any operations and you'd probably want to keep at least one in home waters with the Home Fleet the rest can be deployed elsewhere. Argus, Hermes and Eagle are too slow for going chasing the Italians but they can protect the RN's 15-inch gunned battle line, especially as the Med fleet has R class ships in it with a max speed of 21 knots.

Also pre-war the RN was doing lots of practice with the Follies operating as a single unit, not quite to the degree the IJN would have with the Kido Bukai but not too far off it either. This groups not been broken up with the loss of the Courageous and Glorious being avoided. This means that the RN's going to have 4 very well worked up frontline carriers as well as the experienced pilots aboard Hermes and Eagle.

 

[HexWargamer]

Brits were expecting the Italian declaration of war ages before == we had weeks of time to put pre-prepared plan into effect & pre-position our forces ... Mussillini announced his declaration of war the afternoon of the day before, 'with effect from midnight' ??? SO == final 'go code' can be sent as soon as the Declaration is recieved by our Ambassidor in Rome, bombs and torpedoes can be dropping out of the sky dawn the next day ...
Of course that was post Dunkirk and a few days before the French called it quits ....

OK, Italy is Catholic, so lets have a nice Sunday am dawn attack during some significant religious holiday when the italains are most distracted .. Could start kicking them out of East Africa on the Friday before just to throw in some more confusion (might help mask the destination of our forces) ... about time Ethiopia was rescued

OTL it was a night attack with string bags !! (I would be the first to say 'no way would those casulties be posible')
... but a day attack can be multiple waves and achieve total wipe out ...

Italian Navy was using essentially the commercial version of Engima, the one without the plug board == so an easy crack, expecially if the bombes are up and running already ... so we have lots of intel on where their ships are = = also they (totally ?) lacked radar

[OTL we were so sure the Germans would launch a 'knock out blow' the day war was declared that when the air-raid alrams went off over London no one was surprised at all == so the idea of a 'knock out blow' is not a new one ...]

Oh == now I see it ! Ferry Distance !! PLUS, you can do a Dollittle !!! Genius !!

[ smack the Italian Navy with 5ton bombs, fly on to smack their air bases on Sicily, land at Malta == Genius !!! !!!
== to sneak up on them you will have to go around Africa and come in via Suez == italian spies at Gibraltar can (and did) nip across into spain & just pick up a phone to Rome and the surprise is lost ... whilst at suez we own the telephone & telex lines .... and huff duff means no spy with a radio ever lasts very long..] == sorry if I've just jumped the gun, you are just too good not to crow about !

 

[Errolwi]

Brits were expecting the Italian declaration of war ages before == we had weeks of time ...

Indeed, OTL's cables between the UK and AU/NZ government about the escort and destination of a significant troop convoy in early/mid-1940 are interesting reading. The end result was two reinforced antipodean brigades in England post-Dunkirk (rather than going to Egypt) continuing their training.

 

[Jellico]

I am being a little more devious than that!

RAF sleeper cells assassinate the Admiralty? The fleet gets melted down for use as Merlins?

 

[sonofpegasus]

You are Naughty! Story wise I took my eye off the ball from OTL and forgot how early in November the attack on Taranto took place. Writing the Naval side of ITL Taranto is not a problem as I can do that as a catch up backstory. But having not written anything in September or October for RAF preparations makes it a bit difficult to now suddenly conjure up a major operation. the under riding Ethos of the PAM has been that the changes and characters have to ne completely plausible within the constricts of OTL and not a simple Britwank. I have the germ of an idea and I shall try and draft it out to see how plausible it would be. THIS IS NOT A TEASER, just an explanation of one of the problems of not truly planning a time line

 

[AlanJWhite]

Story wise I took my eye off the ball from OTL and forgot how early in November the attack on Taranto took place.

Not to add to your problems BUT ..

leaving aside a certain degree of pre-war planning
even in OTL the original schedule was for an attack on October 21 (the immortal memory and all that)

IIRC the delay was due to problems with HMS Eagle ... though some (?5) of her Swordfish were shifted to Illustrious for the November raid

 

[Crowbar Six]

Brits were expecting the Italian declaration of war ages before == we had weeks of time to put pre-prepared plan into effect & pre-position our forces ... Mussillini announced his declaration of war the afternoon of the day before, 'with effect from midnight' ??? SO == final 'go code' can be sent as soon as the Declaration is recieved by our Ambassidor in Rome, bombs and torpedoes can be dropping out of the sky dawn the next day ...
Of course that was post Dunkirk and a few days before the French called it quits ....

OK, Italy is Catholic, so lets have a nice Sunday am dawn attack during some significant religious holiday when the italains are most distracted .. Could start kicking them out of East Africa on the Friday before just to throw in some more confusion (might help mask the destination of our forces) ... about time Ethiopia was rescued

OTL it was a night attack with string bags !! (I would be the first to say 'no way would those casulties be posible')
... but a day attack can be multiple waves and achieve total wipe out ...

Italian Navy was using essentially the commercial version of Engima, the one without the plug board == so an easy crack, expecially if the bombes are up and running already ... so we have lots of intel on where their ships are = = also they (totally ?) lacked radar

[OTL we were so sure the Germans would launch a 'knock out blow' the day war was declared that when the air-raid alrams went off over London no one was surprised at all == so the idea of a 'knock out blow' is not a new one ...]

Oh == now I see it ! Ferry Distance !! PLUS, you can do a Dollittle !!! Genius !!

[ smack the Italian Navy with 5ton bombs, fly on to smack their air bases on Sicily, land at Malta == Genius !!! !!!
== to sneak up on them you will have to go around Africa and come in via Suez == italian spies at Gibraltar can (and did) nip across into spain & just pick up a phone to Rome and the surprise is lost ... whilst at suez we own the telephone & telex lines .... and huff duff means no spy with a radio ever lasts very long..] == sorry if I've just jumped the gun, you are just too good not to crow about !

The RN had been practicing night attacks for a while and were pretty good at it, they had been flying long range mining missions against the Germans in the North Sea as preparation of an attack on Wilhelmshaven in early 1940 which did not happen in OTL. The second issue with going for an early Taranto is that the RN needed a decent amount of dark to get the strike force in, launch and recover the strike and to move away from the Italians to avoid detection, there is too much daylight that early in the year. The Italians lacked radar and had a lot of AAA in the area, IOTL the Italians threw a lot of flak at the attackers for little affect as a much of it was wasted on the flare droppers, in a daytime attack a lot of that fire would be directed at the attackers leading to a higher casualty rate also there would be a risk the Italians could get fighters launched to intercept and to track them back to the attack force.

Shuttle bombing to Malta is difficult as there was limited AVGAS available on the island so refueling a strike would eat into their reserves.

The best contribution the RAF could make would be to make a Gardening run to trap the remaining Italian ships in the harbour, and also they could attack the remaining infrastructure such as the tank farm, workshops and seaplane base, there should be plenty of light as the FAA left the place aflame, the Italians had also shot up pretty much all of their AAA reserves in the attack so the attackers should have a pretty quiet time of it.

 

[Glyndwr01]

You are Naughty! Story wise I took my eye off the ball from OTL and forgot how early in November the attack on Taranto took place. Writing the Naval side of ITL Taranto is not a problem as I can do that as a catch up backstory. But having not written anything in September or October for RAF preparations makes it a bit difficult to now suddenly conjure up a major operation. the under riding Ethos of the PAM has been that the changes and characters have to ne completely plausible within the constricts of OTL and not a simple Britwank. I have the germ of an idea and I shall try and draft it out to see how plausible it would be. THIS IS NOT A TEASER, just an explanation of one of the problems of not truly planning a time line

 

[sonofpegasus]

11.02 Fighter Command, Strengths and Locations of Units by Sector as of 6pm on 30 September 1940



As of the thirtieth of September Fighter Command had sixty three operational squadrons of day fighters. In Discusions through October Sit Hugh and Keith Park had discussed what changes should and could be made in the imeadette future to the organiseation of Fighter Command. Sir Hugh had suggested that as soon as the day sortie rate dropped it would be time to actvate No 9 Group, by allocateing it operational squadrons. Kieth Park had responded that he would prefer that No 9 group was not activated until he had taken over as AOC Fighter Command and Sir Hugh had official taken over as CAS. Sir Hugh concurred and suggested that as AOC Fighter Command He should present his proposals as soon as possible. He also warned Park that he was likely to loose several experience squadrons from his command quite soon and also some of his senior staff officers. Therefore he should think about whom he wanted and where as replacements.



Sector stations marked *

No 10 Group, Headquarters Box

234 Squadron Spitfire Mk II St Eval

85 Squadron Spitfire Mk II St Eval

609 Squadron Spitfire Mk II Exeter*

87 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Exeter*

213 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Exeter*

92 Squadron Spitfire Mk II Pembrey*

605 Squadron Defiant Pembry*

73 Squadron Defiant Pembry*

263 Squadron Reaper Filton

421 Squadron Beaufighter NF Filton

501 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Middle Wallop*

238 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Middle Wallop*

1 RCAF. Squadron Hurricane MkIc Middle Wallop*

No5 OTU. Hurricane MkIc Aston Down

No13 OTU. Bisely NF. Bicester.





No 11 Group, Headquarters Uxbridge

56 Squadron Hurricane MkIc North Weald*

307 squadron PAC Reaper NF Marltesham.

151 Squadron Hurricanes MkIc North Weald*

602 Squadron Spitfire MkII Hornchurch*

74 Squadron Spitfire MkII Hornchurch*

152 Squadron Spitfire MkII Hornchurch*

600 Squadron Reaper NF Biggin Hill*

3 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Hawkinge

603 Squadron Spitfire MkII Biggin Hill*

32 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Biggin Hill*

306 Squadron POC Spitfire MkII Debden*

308 Squadron POC Spitfire MkII Debden*

302 Squadron POC Spitfire MkII Duxford*

303 Squadron POC Spitfire MkII Duxford

64 Squadron Spitfire MkII Kenley*

504 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Kenley*

111 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Croydon

1 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Northolt*

257 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Northolt*

43 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Tangmere*

145 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Tangmere*

601 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Westhampnett

12 Group, Headquarters Watnall

249 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Church Fenton*

616 Squadron Spitfire MkII Leconfield

253 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Kirton-in-lindsey*

222 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Kirton-in-lindsey*

46 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Digby*

611 Squadron Spitfire MkII Digby*

266 Squadron Spitfire MkII Digby*

29 Squadron Reaper NF Digby*

23 Squadron Reaper NF Wittering*

229 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Wittering*

137 Squadron Reaper Wittering*

247 Squadron Defiant Wittering

66 Squadron Spitfire MkII Coltishall*

242 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Coltishall*

123 Squadron Defiant Coltishall*

96 Squadron Reaper NF Coltishall*

No6 OTU. Spitfire MkII Sutton Bridge



13 Group, Headquarters Newcastle

141 Squadron Defiant Turnhouse*

245 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Turnhouse*

54 Squadron Spitfire MkII Aklington*

72 Squadron Spitfire MkII Aklington*

235 Squadron Bisley NF Aklington*

41 Squadron Spitfire MkII Catterick*

219 Squadron Spitfire MkII Catterick*

604 Squadron Bisley Beufighter Catterick*

232 Squadron Defiant Unsworth*

310 Czech Squadron Spitfire MkII Unsworth*

312 Czech Squadron Reaper Church Fenton

607 Squadron Defiant Usworth

808 Squadron FAA Fulmar Castletown

No18 Polish OTU. Spitfire MkII Prestwick

No54 OTU. Reaper NF. Church Fenton.



14 Group, Headquarters Inverness

79 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Wick*

615 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Dyce*

610 Squadron Spitfire MkII Dyce*

65 Squadron Spitfire MkII Drem

19 Squadron Spitfire MkII Dalcross*

17 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Dalcross*

305 squadron POC Hurricane Mk1d Milltown

85 Squadron Hurricane MkIc Lossiemouth



25 Squadron Reaper NF Banff



264 Squadron Defiant Lossiemouth









Aircraft strengths by squadron type in each group

Group, 10 11 12 13 14

Hurricane MkIc 5 13 6 1 3

Spitfire MkII 4 6 4 5 6

Defiant 2 1 2 3

Reaper 1 1

Reaper NF. 2 3 1

Bisley NF. 2

Beaufighter

Beaufighter N.F 1



Totals by Group 14 22 16 11 10

 

[Paulo the Limey]

This version should be slightly easier to read.

 

[Thoresby]

How much bigger is this than OTL? Presumably with losses lower and production higher the main constraint is pilot numbers so a lot of the extra planes are in reserve or old types taken out of service.

 

[pjmidd]

How much bigger is this than OTL? Presumably with losses lower and production higher the main constraint is pilot numbers so a lot of the extra planes are in reserve or old types taken out of service.

If anything its smaller than OTL in terms of Squadrons. Better planes and obviously cannot tell if the squadrons are bigger so as a fighting force almost certainly superior.

 

[Driftless]

How much bigger is this than OTL? Presumably with losses lower and production higher the main constraint is pilot numbers so a lot of the extra planes are in reserve or old types taken out of service.

I believe there has also been improvements in the training program, so there are more pilots in the pipeline, plus more pilots have survived being shot down. With the latter group, that also means more veterans who are better equipped to fight again, or become instructors.

 

[sonofpegasus]

I will post an OTL comparison over the weekend if possible. My thanks to PTL for trying to sort out the mess of my tabulation. I am afraid my computer using skills are sadly lacking.

 

[Paulo the Limey]

I will post an OTL comparison over the weekend if possible. My thanks to PTL for trying to sort out the mess of my tabulation. I am afraid my computer using skills are sadly lacking.

No worries, happy to help with this timeline.

 

[sonofpegasus]

A quick comparisom between OTL fighter command OOB and ITL,
OTL on the 30th September 1940 Fighter Command OOB was:

Spitfires, (8Mg) 18 squadrons,
Hurricanes (8Mg) 27 squadrons
Defiants (4Mg in turret) 4 squadrons,
Blenhiem (6Mg fighters) 5 squadrons
Gladiator, (4Mg) 1 flight.
65 squadrons (no dedicated night fighter squadrons).

ITTL. on the 30th November 1940 Fighter Command OOB :
Spitfires (2 cannon, 4Mg) 25 squadrons.
Hurricanes (2cannon, 4Mg) 25 squadrons.
Defiants ( 4 cannons) 8 squadrons.
Reaper (4 cannons) 3 squadrons.
Reaper NF. (4 Cannons) 6 squadrons.
Beaufighter NF (4 cannons) 1 Squadron.
Bisley NF (2 Cannon, 4Mg) 2 squadrons.
70 squadrons, (9 dedicated Night fighter squadrons.

ITTL there are Sixty one day fighter squadrons which is four fewer than average over most of the UK the night fighters capability is greatly enhanced (about 18months/2 years ahead of OTOTL but ITTI all day fighters are armed with at least 2 X 20mm cannon. So in fire power the ITL squadrons are much greater than OTL. In ITL as of 30th September there are nine operational RDF fitted night fighter squadrons compared to OTL when there were zero. With ITTL GCI/PPI Radar coverage over most of the UK this is a huge advance over OTL. This advantage in Radar over OTL, will equipment wise be eroded down to almost parity to OTL as centimetric radar is introduce only a few months earlier than OTL. However the greater experience gained with the earlier mass production of AI radar and it's use will continue ITTL to give the PAM an advantage over OTL in the night battle.
Pilot wise ITTL there are proportionally more pilots who have survived the BoB (about 10%) plus more pilots coming out of the training program. Aircraft losses have been about parallel to OTL but production especially of spitfires up to 01/11/1940 have been substantially above OTL, princaply due to Castle Bromwich spamming out Spitfire mark II since Mid 1939.

I hope that is a useful summary.

 

[Thoresby]

Very helpful, presumably all this has trickled out to other Commands with the Middle and Far East both stronger than OTL.

 

[sonofpegasus]

Yes both Middle and Far East Commands got a tranche of Hurricanes and Spitfires prior to the FoF. However due to the BOB those aircraft have not been replacements and therefore the number available for combat has been eroded by attrition. Now the BoB is basically over the PAM will be doing its best to rectify that. ITTL the aircraft cake is being sliced much more evenly between the different Commands so there will be winners and losers.

 

[Thoresby]

I'm guessing by that you mean Bomber Command is smaller but Coastal Command is ruling the waves.

 

[Coulsdon Eagle]

OTL only adds up to 55 day fighters not 65.