AHC: Peerless Air Ministry

[sonofpegasus]

This is a repost of my earlier one with corrections, My apologies for the inconsistencies in the earlier version and my thanks ro those who drew my attention to them,

A quick comparison between OTL fighter command OOB and ITL,
OTL on the 30th September 1940 Fighter Command OOB was:

Spitfires, (8Mg) 19 squadrons,
Hurricanes (8Mg) 33 squadrons
Defiants (4Mg in turret) 4 squadrons,
Blenhiem (6Mg fighters) 5 squadrons
Gladiator, (4Mg) 1 flight.
61 squadrons (no dedicated night fighter squadrons).

ITTL. on the 30th November 1940 Fighter Command OOB :
Spitfires (2 cannon, 4Mg) 25 squadrons.
Hurricanes (2cannon, 4Mg) 25 squadrons.
Defiants ( 4 cannons) 8 squadrons.
Reaper (4 cannons) 3 squadrons.
Reaper NF. (4 Cannons) 6 squadrons.
Beaufighter NF (4 cannons) 1 Squadron.
Bisley NF (2 Cannon, 4Mg) 2 squadrons.
70 squadrons, (9 dedicated Night fighter squadrons.

ITTL there are Sixty one day fighter squadrons which is the same as OTL. ITTI all day fighters are armed with at least 2 X 20mm cannon. So in fire power the ITL squadrons are much greater than OTL. The night fighters capability is greatly enhanced (about 18months/2 years ahead of OTL). In ITL as of 30th September there are nine operational RDF fitted night fighter squadrons compared to OTL when there were zero. With ITTL GCI/PPI Radar coverage over most of the UK this is a huge advance over OTL. This advantage in Radar over OTL, will equipment wise, be eroded down to almost parity to OTL as centimetric radar is introduce only a few months earlier than OTL. However the greater experience gained with the earlier mass production of AI radar and it's use will continue ITTL to give the PAM an advantage over OTL in the night battle.
Pilot wise ITTL there are proportionally more pilots who have survived the BoB (about 10%) plus more pilots coming out of the training program. Aircraft losses have been about parallel to OTL but production especially of Spitfires up to 01/11/1940 have been substantially above OTL, principally due to Castle Bromwich spamming out Spitfire mark II since Mid 1939.

I hope that is a useful summary.

 

[Some Bloke]

So the Beaufighter's based in the Beaufort, and the Bisley's based on the Blenheim? Although the tech gap compared to OTL will be closing fairly soon for now, the British have more experience in manufacture and use, and IOTL it was the effective use of radar that proved decisive in the BoB more than its existencd

 

[sonofpegasus]

Correct, the Bisley OTL was a Blenheim variant with a solid nose containing a battery of .303 machine guns intended as a ground attack aircraft.
ITTL the Bisley with its solid nose and guns is a dedicated night fighter and is a better one than the OTL Blenheim NF.

 

[sonofpegasus]

11. 03 The Right equipment in the right place?

Discussions between Sir Phillip and Sir Hugh in the proceeding weeks had been wide ranging and Sir Hugh had concurred that with the end of the current daylight campaign over Britain and with the proposed major rearming of Fighter Command to all Spitfires, now would be a good time to send reinforcements abroad.
The last batch of Hurricane and Spitfire mark ones had been sent out before the end of May and by now those aircraft that had survived this long where becoming harder and harder to keep operational. The Government and the AM decided the first priorities for fighters should be Malta and the Middle East. The AM was proposing to send Hurricanes to Malta to be followed by Spitfires as soon as possible. The Defiants would go to the Middle East Command.
With knowledge that operation Compass was due to start in early December, it was acknowledged in the AM that any such reinforcements needed to start being sent sooner rather than later.
Sir Hugh’s next proposal caught Sir Phillip completely by surprise. Sir Hugh suggested that the Entire PAC, currently consisting of the five single seat fighter Squadrons and one night fighter squadron be joined by the two Polish Bomber Squadrons No's 300, and 301 (at this time converting to Wellingtons). Should subject to the agreement of the Polish Government in Exile be transferred as a complete unit to the Middle East Command in Egypt.
This would give this command an independent but powerful force to act in support of the Army in theatre as it sort to eject the Italians who had recently invaded Egypt. Sir Hugh did add the proviso that that 307 squadron PAC would need to convert from the night-fighter Reaper to either the single seat version the Reaper or the two seat Beafighter as the RDF equipped Reaper NF was required for UK defense and was not yet cleared for overseas service.
At this juncture Sir Phillip had sounded a word of caution, in that Sir Arthur Longmore, the Current AOC Middle East, had upset the Prime Minister for continually requesting reinforcements and that Sir Hugh’s plan might be seen as supporting Sir Arthur Longmore rather than the Prime Minister. Sir Hugh had responded that he was proposing to recall Sir Arthur and to send out Air-Vice Marshall Arthur Tedder as his replacement. That would of course have to be agreed by Churchill as would the relocation of the PAC if the Polish Government in exile authorized it as well.
When Sir Phillip as AM asked Sir Hugh as CAS why he was advocating taking six of the most successful squadrons away from Fighter Command and at the same time taking two squadrons of bombers from Bomber Command. Sir Hugh’s reasoning was simple and understandable. The PAC was a self contained unit and could be relocated as such. Further rather than having Poles sitting in the UK getting bored and doing mad things through the British winter it would be advantageous to send them where their propensity for attacking anything in the air or on the ground could be used to it’s best advantage.

Discussions with the Admiralty, had prior to Sir Hugh taking over a CAS resulted in the plan for reinforcing Malta being brought forward to dovetail with ongoing Naval operations, this resulted in Operation White being folded into the complicated MB8 plan of operations.. To that end a total of Eighty four Hurricanes had been sent to Glasgow for loading, crated, onto ships for delivery to Gibraltar on the first part of their journey to Malta. Eighty four aircrew were also despatched though not all of them would stay on Malta once the aircraft were delivered.

Currently there were three operational Wellington squadrons in Middle East Command with two more working up to operational standard. Sir Hugh and Sir Phillip considered that attacking the Italian convoys taking troops and supplies to Italian North Africa should soon become a priority for the bomber force based on Malta. The proposal was to reinforce the two existing Wellington Squadrons currently there with additional maritime patrol and attack aircraft. In the expectation of an adverse reaction from the Italians the proposal also contained a commitment to continue reinforcing the fighter defenses of the Island of Malta was also placed on the agenda.
In discussions with Sir Keith Park, Sir Hugh had enquired as to which of his current Group Commanders he would recommend as the next AOC. Malta. Sir Hugh had explained to Sir Phillip that he considered it essential that the officer commanding the air defense of the island had had experience in commanding an RDF based defense system and therefore promoting a Fighter Command group leader would be the correct action.

Operations against the Italians in East Africa were on going and the need for replacements for the aircraft in that theatre was becoming more and more urgent. Back in early June the decision had been made to have the Curtis Hawk aircraft that the British Government had procured from the French orders shipped directly to East Africa for the reequipment of the South African squadrons serving in that theatre, as of the end of the first week of November one hundred and thirty Mohawks had been delivered. For continuation purposes Curtis P-40’s with the Allison in line engine were being purchased by the British Purchasing Commission and would be again be shipped directly to Egypt where self sealing tanks, amour and other modifications would be fitted prior to the planes being sent to the squadrons. There had been much discussion over whether the Mohawks should be replaced by either Hurricanes or Defiants shipped from the UK. However the longer range of the Warhawk was seen as being advantageous in the East African theatre of operations.

The shipping of aircraft from the USA to Britain and The Middle East had caused some sharp correspondence between the AM and the Ministry of Supply. In discussions with the AM and the MOS. The Canadian Government had agreed in 1939 to set up production plants for the following aircraft.

Hawker Hurricane,

Short Stirling

Avro Anson

Both the Anson and the Hurricane were now in production, this required engines to be shipped to Canada for fitting to the airframes. After much discussion the decision was made that Ansons for Canadian use would be fitted with American engines and that if necessary Hurricanes would be shipped without their Merlins.

With the prospect of large numbers of Packard Merlins coming off the production lines by the end of 1941 the MAP had sought a change in production from the Canadians. Whilst the Anson would remain as is and continuing Hurricane production would use Packard engines. With the production line for the Sterling yet to be set up the MAP was advocated that the Canadians changed to building the new Avro Lancaster, the prototype of which would be flying soon. The principle advantage of this change would be that the Lancaster would use four Packard Merlin engines which would save the shipping of four Fairey Monarch engines to Canada for each Stirling built, as well as allowing those Merlins used on Canadian built Lancasters to self deliver by air to the UK as part of a complete aircraft. The last component of the new plan proposed that the Canadians would start building the new De-Haviland Mosquito. As this could be constructed form Canadian sourced wood ( though Balsa wood would still need to be imported from south America via the pacific coast) and again use the Packard Merlin thereby also freeing up scarce shipping space on the transatlantic convoys. Once these advantages had been explained at some length to the men from the MOS, shipping Balsa wood up the Pacific coast to Canada would not only be safer than shipping the timber to the UK but it also reduced the shipping load on the Atlantic convoys as would the self delivery of the Lancaster and Mosquito aircraft by air. This self delivery of aircraft had the further advantage of being able to use Canadian/American trained aircrew hence saving their passage space to the UK. All in all the AM considered such a production plan to be, as one of the Americans from Packard had put it to Earnest Hives of RR a ‘win, win outcome’

 

[Some Bloke]

So what's happening in Australia? With the Dominions becoming more industrially self sufficient, I can see another driver for a further reduced dependency on American material and financial aid than OTL.

 

[formion]

The proposal was to reinforce the two existing Wellington Squadrons currently there with additional maritime patrol and attack aircraft.

That is a hugebutterfly. It is September 1940 and Malta has already 2 Wellington Squadrons! To demonstrate the difference to the OTL and what was envisioned in OTL, here is an older post of mine on the topic.

AHC: Peerless Air Ministry

One he should have been cashiered for rather than being handed a medical discharge. They probably thought he'd been punished enough for his own stupidity.

www.alternatehistory.com

 

[sonofpegasus]

OTL, in 1940 when Italy entered the war, the consensus opinion in the British High Command was that Malta would be indefensible. OTL Churchill insisted that Malta would be Held. ITTL with RDF and more fighters available the Government has more confidence in the practicality of holding Malta. Wellingtons have the range to self deliver to the island. Therefore basing them there for Maritime Patrol and General bombing duties has benefits. ITTL there has been and will be a fair amount of horse trading between command regarding aircraft and their deployment. The RN torpedo school at Gosport along with Lee-On- Solent have been testing torpedoes on almost anything that can carry one to give Maritime Command more offensive clout.

 

[steamboy]

Sending the entire PAC? I feel sorry for the italians! One question for ye, the Beaufighter's coming into service, I assume this is going to act as the RAF's general strike aircraft replacing such aircraft as the Battle and other single seat aircraft, and the Reaper's going to be more like the RAF's 'heavy figher/zerstroyer' analogue. This will probably double up with the Mosquito once the RAF realises how flexible it is. This will then leave the RAF with three 2 engine aircraft, two of which (Mossy/Beaufighter) have broadly similar capabilities with one having advantages in some areas compared to the other.

Shame the Stirling's still in production though, it was a baaaaad aircraft, its small wings limited its altitude and speed making it very vulnerable to Flak and interceptors. I assume the Lancaster's still in development. Bomber Command's changing and it seems to be shifting away from area attacks and looking at supporting the army. But, and this is a big one, without bomber command and the 8th airforce attacking Germany, its probale that Germany wouldn't have been weakened enough for an invasion. And with the 'accuracy' of the time, this will mean that cities are going to be hit.

 

[PMN1]

Shame the Stirling's still in production though, it was a baaaaad aircraft, its small wings limited its altitude and speed making it very vulnerable to Flak and interceptors. I assume the Lancaster's still in development. Bomber Command's changing and it seems to be shifting away from area attacks and looking at supporting the army. But, and this is a big one, without bomber command and the 8th airforce attacking Germany, its probale that Germany wouldn't have been weakened enough for an invasion. And with the 'accuracy' of the time, this will mean that cities are going to be hit.

Isn't TTL Stirling very different with four Monarch engines?

 

[steamboy]

Isn't TTL Stirling very different with four Monarch engines?

i'm not sure, but the limited wingspan is still a major issue.

 

[PMN1]

i'm not sure, but the limited wingspan is still a major issue.

I thought it also had a larger wingspan.

Here we go...Post 422

sonofpegasus





Hence the word Just, if he joined the dots it does not necessarily have to be him who finishes the picture. With centimeter Radar on the horizon IR is really not needed, is it?
ITTL the Stirling has the 112ft wingspan of the original S29 design proposal and 8,000 Hp! Bomber command will monopolise them as much as possible but Sir Phillip will make sure that coastal command gets sufficient numbers. At this moment in history their task would be more finding raiders and blockade runners than U-boats.


Although presumably its performance is still less than that of the Merlin Lancaster?? Not sure if the advantage of not having to ship Monarchs out to Canada outweighs having an aircraft with reduced performance.

 

[ShortsBelfast]

Sending the entire PAC? I feel sorry for the italians! One question for ye, the Beaufighter's coming into service, I assume this is going to act as the RAF's general strike aircraft replacing such aircraft as the Battle and other single seat aircraft, and the Reaper's going to be more like the RAF's 'heavy figher/zerstroyer' analogue. This will probably double up with the Mosquito once the RAF realises how flexible it is. This will then leave the RAF with three 2 engine aircraft, two of which (Mossy/Beaufighter) have broadly similar capabilities with one having advantages in some areas compared to the other.

Shame the Stirling's still in production though, it was a baaaaad aircraft, its small wings limited its altitude and speed making it very vulnerable to Flak and interceptors. I assume the Lancaster's still in development. Bomber Command's changing and it seems to be shifting away from area attacks and looking at supporting the army. But, and this is a big one, without bomber command and the 8th airforce attacking Germany, its probale that Germany wouldn't have been weakened enough for an invasion. And with the 'accuracy' of the time, this will mean that cities are going to be hit.

The Stirling OTL was a mediocre bomber but quite a decent maritime reconnaissance and anti- submarine patrol aircraft. TTL it is mainly being used in that capacity.

 

[sonofpegasus]

TTL Stirling is a very different beast than the OTL one, Yes it has the original 112ft wingspan, four Fairey Monarch H 24 engines. A single large bomb bay and no bomb cells in the wing.
The Mk1 Bombers has, front, dorsal and rear turrets for a total of 10 mgs.
The LRMRA is similar but has a smaller bomb bay to allow for additional fuel tanks, 1.5m wave band 'Stickle Back' ASV and in the Mk2 is being fitted with 0.25m wave band scanning ASV. This aircraft is just being deployed to Iceland and other bases to give cover to the North Atlantic Convoys.
The Stirling is just one of a number of aircraft ITTL to benefit from some rational decisions made by the PAM some years earlier.

 

[sonofpegasus]

Bristol have had the same problems ITTL with the Hercules as they had in OTL, so the Beaufighter is ITTL only just entering service and suffers the same engine hassles. However due to the PAM there are other aircraft and engines available. The problem is finite resources, more of one thing usually means less of another.
The earlier development and deployment of AI/RDF means that there is in the PAM TL a much higher demand for twin engine night fighters than in the same period OTL and therefore other variants are in short supply.
The pack will need to be shuffled and a different hand dealt to the various RAF Commands of the PAM.

 

[Driftless]

Correct, the Bisley OTL was a Blenheim variant with a solid nose containing a battery of .303 machine guns intended as a ground attack aircraft.
ITTL the Bisley with its solid nose and guns is a dedicated night fighter and is a better one than the OTL Blenheim NF.

Wasn't one of the knocks against the historic Blenheim was that it was underpowered for its role as a nightfighter and thereby too often too slow for closing on interceptions. By the time they closed the gap, the German bomber was functionally out of range over the North Sea or the wrong side of the Channel in too many instances.

Does this version of the Bisley have more horsepower? Or, Has it passed the logical development point where any gains aren't worth the resource?

 

[Some Bloke]

Is the Defiant a night fighter or a heavy fighter here?

 

[sonofpegasus]

The Bisley does not have the drag of the OTL gun pack and has also lost the dorsal turret therefore it is a little quicker ITTL. In the PAM it is principally being utilised in OTU's. With both the Gloster Reaper and the Bristol Beaufighter in production, the Bisley is considered as this juncture to be at best obsolescent but will continue in production until there are sufficient better aircraft available.
The Defiant in the PAM is a four cannon fighter (no Whirlwind).

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

They might want to consider shipping some of the obsolescent Bisleys out to Malaya once Japan occupies Indochina. Given what the British think they know about Japanese aircraft at that time they would be considered more than adequate to meet any threat, with the benefit that they wouldn't take frontline aircraft from the war zones.

 

[sonofpegasus]

11.04 Under new managment

Having attended his first War Cabinet meeting Sir Hugh as CAS now had a far better understanding of the dynamics of how the government was fighting this war. Back in late May Churchill had formed a government of national unity, involving both the Labour and the Liberal Paties. This meant that Churchill had appointed a Labour politician as his deputy and a number of senior Labour MPs as ministers. For the Liberals, Churchill had appointed Sir Archibald Sinclair as the Minister of Aircraft Production under the AM. This gave Sir Archibald a cabinet seat but not a place on the War Cabinet. Sir Phillip as AM was on the war Cabinet and as CAS Sir Hugh would normally attended as would Heads of the other armed services.

This War Cabinet meeting had seen Churchill congratulate Sir Hugh on his promotion and welcomed him to the War Cabinet and almost in the same breath demand of Sir Hugh his plans for stopping the night blitz and an exortation that the RAF be seen to hit back at the enemy. Sir Hugh speaking in measured terms had told the War Cabinet that he was confident that Sir Keith Park as SAO of Fightert Command was doing everything possible with the resources available to counter the enemie’s night bombers. As to the RAF retaliating for the systematic and indiscriminate bombing of British cities Sir Hugh reiterated that as CAS he was reviewing the current bombing operations of the RAF and would be making recommendations to Churchill as the Defence Minister as to the deployment of offensive assets as soon as Sir Phillip and himself were satisfied with their planning. Looking Squarely at Churchill Sit Hugh had added that this was as they had agreed at a meeting with him back in September.

Sir Hugh continued stating that a thorough review of all he RAF Commands both domestic and foreign was being carried out and the results of that review would inform Sir Hugh when he came to formulate plans to fullfill the war aims and strategic objectives set by the Goverment. Having weathered the invasion threat of the summer after the fall of France it was now he opininioned only right that such a review be done so that of those of the nations resources allocated to the RAF could be best assigned and deployed to prosecute the war against the countries enemies as effiecently as possible.

Then with a nod from Churchill Sir Hugh proceeded to brief the War Cabinete regarding the proposed re-equipment of Fighter Command and the re inforcement of Middle East Command . Whilst not giving specific details Sir Hugh outlined the upcoming joint operation with the RN, where Hurricane Fighters would be carried to within Ferry range of Malta before flying off to land on the island. Reinforcements for Egypt would be delivered as crated aircraft to Freetown and would then fly the newly established southern ferry route up into Egypt. This route would also be used by Blenhiems and other bombers. Staging bombers through Malta was diccussed briefly but the use of the limited aircraft fuel available on the island for that purpose was not justifiable. The proposals regarding the Polish Air Contingent resulted in much discussion around the table. Churchill stated that he and the deputy prime minister would be seeking a meeting with the Polish Goverment in Exhile at the earliest opertunity.

Having weathered that first storm, Hugh took this occasion to enquire of the War Cabinate as to their intentions regarding the growing pressures in the Far East. Whilst Britain was at war with Nazi Germany and her allies it would, he ventured be imprudent to igore the gathering storm clouds further east. The latest demands apparently being made by the Japanese of the Vichy Goverment regarding basing rights for aircraft and the transit of troops through French Indo China, where in his opinion a serious development that threatened directly the safety of Malaya and Singapore. Whilst the Goverment of Thialand were supposedly neutral Sir Hugh enquired as to what garantees were there that they do would not bow to Japaneses pressure and permit Japan to base troops and aircraft there further threatening British interest.

Sir Hugh had served as an army officer in India and had a good understanding of the effect such moves would have upon the strategic vunerability of Burma and even India itself. Churchill seemed slightly non plussed at first that Sir Hugh as CAS should be talking about the far east and Japan when the country was still at peace with that nation and not concentrating on defeating Germany.

Sir Hugh responded by stating that he would be failing in his duty to King and country if he did not remind the Goverment that the RAF and the other armed forces still had a duty to defend the entire empire not just prosecute the current conflict. Sir Phillip had interjected at this point that he had discussed these issues with Sir Hugh and was fully surportive of his stance and that in the very near future the AM would be presenting their recoomendations to the Prime Minister and the Waer Cabinate for reinforcing the RAF in the Far East as a precautionary measure.

Later Back at the Air Ministry Sir Phillip voiced his concern that Sir Hugh might be sailing a bit close to the wind in putting strategic matters to the War Cabinet before seeking clearance and agreement from Churchill as Prime minister and Minister of Defence. Sir Hugh’s responce was that, having been charged as CAS, with the rersponsabilitie of ensuring that the lives of the men and women trusted to his care were not wasted he would not merely be a ‘yes man ‘ for Churchill and would act accordingly. Sir Hugh finished by baldly stating that if Churchill did not like that then Churchill could always sack him but the air defences of the Far East were currently being neglected and that had to be redressed. Tacitly Sir Phillip had agreed with Sir Hugh but suggested that more diplomatic and sensitive ways of manouvering Churchill would probable prove more successful in the long run.

 

[Dannyboy]

Just FYI last update not thread marked.