A Shining Valley - The Great Desert Lake in California

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Planita13, May 18, 2019.

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  1. Red Arturoist Napoleon II. - Marxist-Arturoist-Trałkaist Donor

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    • Who led the German Empire during the disastrous war? Was it Adolf Hitler/ the Nazi Party? Somebody else?
    • Who led France during this period? Was France fascist/Nazi?
    • Why did Russia go genocidal on Germans? Was Russia fascist/Nazi (which the name "Russian State" would imply)? Did Boris Savinkov lead this Russia?
    • Who instigated Generalplan West (@InfernoMole , what would this be in Russian?)?
    • Why did Russia deindustrialise Zapadoslavia? Was it part of a kind of/the Morgenthau Plan?
    • What did the USA, France, Britain or other occupying powers do with their parts of Germany?
    • What is the most notable town/city razed during this genocide?
    • What caused and who led the White Revolution? It can't be the German minority, as Germans are still persecuted..
    • What would happen today if you spoke German in Zapadoslavia?
    • Is there any German nation left? How far does the French Rhineland extend?
     
  2. Planita13 Wishing for a Lake

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    1. No it was the Kaiserreich, mainly the militant old guard, with an offensive war against France.
    2. France was still technically a Republic, but with a conservative autocratic bent. Something along the lines of Turkey.
    3. In the WW1 equivalent Germany basically destroyed Russia as like OTL, leaving it to deal with a communist revolution that was put down. Yea its a fascist state, but since Italy did not invent fascism here its called something else. Boris Savinkov, does not lead Russia but there will be a close equivalent.
    4. General Plan West was the main plan shared by the Russian military high command more or less as a way to permanently destroy Germany. The Industrialization was part of this as well part Morgenthau Plan, and part plan to help industrialization.
    5. Only France had its own occupation zone, and they basically extracted revenge for the German victory in notWW1. Its a mix of military occupation and resource extraction
    6. The biggest towns are probably Königsberg which was ceded to Poland, as well as Potsdam and Frankfurt which were entirely reduced to rubble and repopulated. Probably the biggest example though is Berlin, they destroyed all the cultural monuments and renamed and resettled everything.
    7. For the White Revolution, yes you are correct, the Germans were largely left behind. Its mainly Slavic liberals and Zapadoslavian nationalists (yes that is a thing). The thing is that they want political and civil rights, but for the Germans, not so much. Yes there were German led movements, but they were easily sidelined.
    8. Today if you spoke German, there wouldn't be any official blacklash against you, but in general you would suffer discrimination and the ire of the state security agencies. Zapadoslavia has officially ended the discrimination against Germans in the 1990s, but make no mistake that prejudice is very common.
    9. Yeah there is it mainly consists of the lands between the Rhine and Elbe river. Its not a particularly nice place to live in, with significant amounts of corruption and nationalism. Its economy is still pretty poor and its weak economy is overshadowed by all its neighbors. The regions are basically half the population of OTL.

    I hope it answers your questions!
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  3. Red Arturoist Napoleon II. - Marxist-Arturoist-Trałkaist Donor

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    • Who governs this? What does "significant amounts of ... nationalism" mean in this remnant of Germany?
    • How poor is this nation? As poor as OTL Third World (Burkina Faso)? Like India or China? Like Romania or Turkey? Is it "a lot of extremely poor and a few extremely rich people" or are all people poorer?
    • What is Zapadoslavian economy like?
    • What happened to Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg?
    • What happened to Austria and Switzerland?
    • Were there any other occupiers of Germany than France and Russia?
    • What happened to/became of communist movements, in Germany and globally?
    • Could you focus on providing European material (maps, infoboxes, graphics etc.)?
     
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  4. Planita13 Wishing for a Lake

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    1. The most moderate political parties demand reparations, an official apology for the genocide, and more rights for the Germans in Zapadoslavia. The most radical parties straight up call for an invasion of Zapadoslavia and a counter genocide. The latter is actually quite popular.
    2. Of course it isn't third world, although for some time in the 60s it easily considered be. These days its more like Romania and in general most of the people are poor and the very few are rich. Although even then there aren't any billionaires.
    3. Zapadoslavia's economy is largely service orientated, although they do have a large manufacturing sector. They also have a financial sector that often gets tied to financial scandals.
    4. Bavaria and the eastern part of Baden-Württemberg also was conquered by Russia. Bavaria suffered the genocide and were settled by Czechs and Russians. France got some of western Baden-Württemberg.
    5. Austria and Switzerland became hosts to major refugee populations, although they couldn't do much else otherwise.
    6. Nope only France and Russia. Although France had allies, it was France doing most of the work.
    7. Yeah in general there was never any socialist state, and it remains as a fringe movement and one that is still opposed by most world governments. Although there certainly those who tried out socialist style economics.
    8. Eh, I'm not sure at the moment. I still got other plans for the timeline at the current time.
     
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  5. Red Arturoist Napoleon II. - Marxist-Arturoist-Trałkaist Donor

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    Thanks for answering the questions, @Planita13 ! What did France do to Germans and German culture etc. in their areas of Germany?
     
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  6. Red Arturoist Napoleon II. - Marxist-Arturoist-Trałkaist Donor

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    Were they also occupied/annexed by Russia? Was Bavaria puppetised and/or renamed (if yes, to what?) by Russia, or directly annexed?
     
  7. Planita13 Wishing for a Lake

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    In general France set up refugee camps in France occupied-Rhineland, although many of them went into France and again live in refugee camps. In the Rhineland itself, everything gets rebuild to what France specifies. Basically everything gets rebuilt to maximize French exploitation. Industrial production is sent to France, with a focus on industrial goods, as France was somewhat less industrialized. France would encourage the skilled Germans to migrate to France while the average refugee provides cheap labor. Basically they allow the region to de industrialize and lose importance and allow France to grow economically.
    Nope they were basically untouched.
     
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  8. IcyCaspian Member

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    May 22, 2019
    What's Colonial New Spain like? How are the Americas Colonized? Does Texas revolt as well as California? When California Revolts do they take Eureka with them? What was the pretense for the Mexican-American War? What is Mexico like today?
     
  9. Threadmarks: Map of the United States of America

    Planita13 Wishing for a Lake

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    Hey guys, sorry for the long space between the updates, I was working hard on something I thought you guys would enjoy. I hope its well worth it
    [​IMG]
    There have been more updates to the map, and this should be the final changes to the United States
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  10. IcyCaspian Member

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    What are minorities like in the United States? Where do most of the Germans, Hispanics, African Americans, and Native Americans live?
     
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  11. Planita13 Wishing for a Lake

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    The minorities are largely scattered across the United States, although they are much more concentrated than OTL. For the most part African-Americans, Californios, and Native Americans live in their own free free states. However African Americans migrated to the Industrial Midwest and North and various other states. Hispanics are found mostly along the border with Mexico but there are significant populations on the West and East Coasts as well in the Industrial Midwest. The German-Americans live in the states around Dakota, which which is the only German-American majority state.
     
  12. Threadmarks: US Political Parties (California)

    Planita13 Wishing for a Lake

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    [​IMG]
    There are two political parties in California that appear on the national level, the Popular Movement and the Citizens of California Party. Although the center-left Solidarity Party has made significant inroads in recent years, it has yet to elect anyone to Congress. The Popular Movement is the political arm of the conservative Californian nationalist movement, dominating the politics of the state since statehood. The Citizens of California is the in-state branch of the National Union, founded to represent white Americans living in California, but it has increasingly come to attract Americanized Hispanic voters. Both parties are broadly big tent center-right parties, representing two sides of California's unique political climate. The parties are broadly competitive across the entire state especially in urban and suburbs. However Baja California tends to vote for the Popular Movement and the counties that borders the rest of the United States, and have a significant white minority, votes for Citizens.

    The National Union political party post has been updated to reflect the current canon.​
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  13. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

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    What's Hawaii like?
     
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  14. Planita13 Wishing for a Lake

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    In the past, it was not a nice place, mostly before the 1950s. It basically worked as a banana republic basically being home to very large sugar plantations, usually totally not slave labor. These days though, its a popular tourist hotspot as well as being home to a very large naval base. In addition its also home to shady financial practices and being a preferred home for the super rich. The place is very much in the American sphere, but they have no interest in becoming an American territory or state. Its also a very multi-ethnic place with people from all over the Pacific Rim living in the country.
     
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  15. Mako-Tochan Marquise of Excess

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    What about France ? How is it doing ?
     
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  16. Planita13 Wishing for a Lake

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    France is the most powerful nation in Western Europe today, because of all the industry taken from Germany and the refugees that it took in after the fall of Germany. I will cover the country in a few days since you suggested it.
     
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  17. Mako-Tochan Marquise of Excess

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    Thank you very much ^-^
     
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  18. farmerted555 Active Member

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    Oct 8, 2015
    So, TTL Arizona includes OTL New Mexico west of the Rio Grande, while TTL New Mexico gets the Oklahoma and most of the Texas Panhandles? Nice!
     
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  19. Planita13 Wishing for a Lake

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    Yep! The state of New Mexico originated from the province of Santa Fe de Nuevo México as part of New Spain and later Mexico.
    [​IMG]
    As you can see, I had quite a bit of leeway with how the borders could be placed TTL.
     
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  20. farmerted555 Active Member

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    Personally, I would've given the entirety of both Panhandles to NM plus the Trans-Pecos.
     
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