That doesn't necessarily prevent the James V. Hart/Nick Castle version.
A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
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In the Queen herself! A lot of very masculine traits, unmarried, powerful...very common in the Hayes Code era to subtly queer code your villains both to make them "scarier" to cis/het audiences of the time and as a way to get crap past the radar of the Code. Other Disney villains were much more obvious in the coding.
I used plotlines and set pieces from the first two books for my synopsis, as does the OTL Disney animation.
The Raimi versions effects would be "better", not to mention much more prevalent through the run time, though Spiderman's TTL effects will be surprisingly good for the time.
They came up with some vector graphics advances and some animatronics controls. Then the "third I" closed for good they sold the IP to various small effects companies and the vector stuff to Silicon Graphics.
The original post explains the production. It was originally supposed to release in '84 but OTL delays pushed it to '85. If you mean effects-wise, there's nothing in the OTL '85 film that they weren't capable of in '80, none the less '84. They frankly could have made it in the late '70s with some slight modifications.
This is possible to some degree. There are still pencil tests and concept art, but yea, alas one of the big downsides to digital animation.
It's also similar to how modern prosthetic limbs can be programmed. This technology will be used in new ways for sure.
Disney iOTL was using a lot of the CAPS tech by this point too. Henson and Kinsey jump started things, but by OTL '89 Rescuers Down Under was fully digitally inked and painted. Aladdin will indeed look quite similar to OTL. In fact, a lot of Aladdin OTL was digital. Even had some fully 3D rendered stuff, e.g. the Mouth of the Cave.
Well, it largely follows the Ashman treatment, so yes.
That's to be expected when they're releasing Spiderman during the 90s. I would've been more shocked if they managed to be comparable or even exceed the quality of VFX that the OTL film had, but yeah.
Very nice to see the quality of animation be preserved for Aladdin. Now I'll be very curious as to what setting the film will follow. Is it going to be Agrabah (to deflect anti-Arab sentiment after the Gulf War) or Baghdad (to maintain some semblance of authenticity and respect towards Arab culture)?
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I'm jealous that we get Proud of Your Boy and Aladdin's mom ITTL.
Babkak, Omar, Aladdin, Kassim has no right being so catchy.
Couldn't they do both, keep Agrabah while being respectful of Arab/Muslim culture. Using Agrabah would give Aladdin a fantastical aura about it, like Arendelle in Frozen.
Highly unlikely that Disney skips over an Arab/Persian setting for an Uyghur one.
nbcman
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Most likely they could not (or would not) avoid the anti islamic/arab themes in the early 1990’s. A Disney spokesperson at the time pretty well blew off objections:
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...aladdin/46f2aacd-444b-4a81-9aa7-7c43cc84d65b/
Most likely not, because my statement questioned the setting itself, instead of the name. Agrabah's overall aesthetic references Persian/Indian architecture far more readily than Abbasid-era Baghdad.
Of course, the setting would merely be inaccurate since the depictions of characters in Aladdin and the song lyrics is what caused major backlash from the Arab communities in 1990s and not the overall place (though the place itself didn't contribute much to help Disney in this case).
I honestly don't mind if they used Agrabah as the name, as post-Gulf War sentiments might prevent Disney from just claiming it as the actual city of Baghdad (better to just make it a fantastical kingdom instead of referencing an actual place). Still it's possible that ITTL Disney could use actual Arab clothing and architecture in this Aladdin, as I postulated earlier:
A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
Question, @Geekhis Khan : will we have to stay tuned for Fox Kids? https://90scartoons.fandom.com/wiki/Fox_Kids#History I hope so but not by that name.
www.alternatehistory.com
I have heard that Aladdin, in both the Ashman version and the OTL movie was explicitly set in Baghdad (later changed to Agrabah). No way they're changing it to the original Chinese setting.
But why would this Disney express the same kind of cultural deafness? Sure in Eisner's case it does make sense but Henson? After going through all the trouble to do The Song of the South remake on top of their other progressive works like The Song of Susan and Maus? I reckon it would be even more derided by the Arab community if it was done exactly the same as OTL since Henson garnered a reputation of being a more progressive and forward-thinking creative visionary (Also throwing a bone to the Jewish community through Maus but not giving the same respect for Arabs/Muslims with Aladdin? Sounds like a recipe for an even bigger backlash ITTL).
Discussions earlier about Aladdin did mention an Egyptian employee at MGM possibly making objections to Aladdin's original draft, so that's a possible segue towards an Aladdin that more closely reflects Abbasid-era Baghdad.
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That'll probably be the nail in the coffin - nobody wants an inadvertent Iraq or Saddam analogue. Then again, a fictional hybrid may very well piss off everybody.
And if we want to be completely puristic, the original tale refers to Muslims and a "sultan." It's unlikely that anyone's going to think "Guangzhou" when they hear "Aladdin."
Lets not forget this is still the 1990s, everyone wasn't as culturally conscious/sensitive as we are today.
Yeah, it's probably acceptable to use Agrabah under these circumstances. I would disagree on the latter half of your statement though as Arab-Americans would at least understand the rationale behind the name, even if using some fictional made-up word from a faraway location isn't the best solution (as long as the depiction of the setting and the characters is palatable).
That is true, which is why I don't doubt Aladdin's overall success among American audiences or internationally, both in my initial posts on Aladdin back at April and now.
However, the release of Maus and their other films in their recent catalog has shifted my overall perception on the Arab-American community's response to Aladdin's blatant offensive depictions. In fact, I frankly think it's a logical decision if Arab-American organizations and Muslims (like the Nation of Islam and etc.) did a huge boycott (instead of just pieces critiquing it) over Aladdin if they did so much for the LGBTQ community and Jews, but can't give a single iota of respect for their own community with a story like Aladdin.
I welcome it actually if it happens. It would show how Henson's progressive image is a double-edged sword for the company while even this Disney under Henson can't escape the American zeitgeist towards anti-Arab/Islamophobic sentiment after the Gulf War and possibly 9/11.
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Not really worried about the American communities - more that Turkey hates the Saudis hate Iraq hates Iran doesn't hate Pakistan hates India, so that any kind of cultural fusion is liable to spark something. Arendelle works (in part) because of how pretty much all of Scandinavia gets along.
And by that logic not including elements of one of these culture could spark something. If fact the mere presence of anything could spark something.
I mean, if cultural divisions will cause that kind of thing, then it was bound to happen regardless of whether Agrabah is like OTL or not. At least international sales matter less in the 90s than in the 2020s and I doubt their squabbling will trigger an organized boycott unlike the Arab-American/Muslim communities in the United States.
I think Geekhis already said it’s not being made, but I could be wrong. *shrug*
I doubt many people today would think Grimhilde is queer-coded; if anything, more likely that her Ugly Crone form would be subjected to anti-semitic scrutiny by those searching for it… It doesn’t help that Dolfy H. himself, after his death was discovered to have produced SWATSD fanart, or the persistent rumours about Walt being an anti-semite (that ignores his friendship with the Sherman Bros. among other things). It’s a good reminder of how restrictive the Hays Code was, though: it’s not just what you weren’t allowed to IN-clude, but what you’re not allowed to EX-clude (in the case of sympathetic women they’d better be either married or searching for a husband!) Bah.
You also added parts that were excised IOTL, such as Gwydion, Archene (Archne? I forget her name), and whats-his-name the jerkish Prince who sacrifices his life to destroy the Cauldron (in OTL, the movie made it indestructible and the one purpose of Gurgi’s temporary sacrifice was to undo its powers. Additionally, compositing the Horned King into actually being Arawn himself (in the books he was his top servant, who died in the climax of book one and wasn’t involved with the Black Cauldron at all), which would make adapting the last books quite hard.
To be fair, while The Chronicles of Prydain isn’t unadaptable as a whole, the structure of each book makes it testy, especially as movies, given it’s more a series of loosely-connected events than a traditional three-act structure. Which is likely why Disney in both worlds opted to borrow the establishing structure for The Book of Three while using The Black Cauldron as an overarching story to drive the plot (ironically it takes a bit from LOTR in being a magic McGuffin that must be destroyed to weaken the Dark Lord)…
I personally suspected as much; effects IOTL might not be as good in 1990 as they are ITTL, but we’re still a ways off from being OTL!2002-good. Though if the 1990s SM series (I’m guessing three or four movies in all?) is rebooted in the mid-2000s, effects may have advanced to the point it could overall be better than Raimi’s series (and possibly, but not necessarily better than TASM duology was).
And because Jim convinced Disney to not be ridiculous about the so-called “incest subplot” that wasn’t really there, they got the ball rolling without needing to replace MJF with Eric Stolz even briefly. Ironic that the sequels still released in 89-90, but I guess there was other stuff which affected that?
Even IOTL, Aladdin looks incredible today for how organic the CGI looks (it always helps to know WHEN to use it)… How many of Ashman’s songs will make it in though, given that IOTL he wrote over a dozen (and only three made it through)?
There were also, like, five different options for Jafar’s Villain Song before they settled on “Prince Ali (Reprise)”; IIRC we’ll be getting “Humiliate the Boy” TTL, correct? How many of the OTL songs were actually written by Howard Ashman however?
Is that the one that was replaced by “One Jump Ahead”, IOTL?
The original tale is the Middle-East equivalent of the numerous European stories that are set on other continents (going as far back as Ancient Greece at least) which don’t know much of anything about the country they are depicting, including projecting their own culture upon it. From architecture described to djinn lore to politics…
It was also, well… problematic, in many ways. Aladdin uses the power he had to get away with bulls*it that would never fly today (lying and getting away with it is the least of the issue), and there’s a stereotypical Greedy Jew minor character who exists for no purpose than to be a Greedy Jew stereotype. The djinn are also slaves with no will of their own, more plot devices than anything… Frankly the update that Disney did to the pop cultural osmosis of the story, flawed as it still is, was much appreciated in my mind!
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