Technically, Katzenberg didn't come up with the idea - he was on a plane with Roy E. Disney and Peter Schneider, when someone (I think it was Roy) brought up about the idea of an Africa-set film. Katzenberg liked it, but he didn't come up with it. There's nothing stopping a similar conversation from happening ITTL, with Henson, Miller and somebody else.
Fair point. Also, I do agree that an African film about animals is on the table (the concept is too general and interesting enough to not be discussed ITTL), as I have said previously:
Of course, they could have a similar moment somewhere along the timeline around the late 1980s or early 1990s, but then....
but since Kimba is already within Disney's consciousness ITTL, they might not bother doing a story like The Lion King.

One big reason I can think of is that Kimba's a little... strange for American audiences - you've got animals talking to humans and carnivores going vegetarian. Obviously, once you've changed those things to make the story less confusing, why not just make an original film in the first place?

There's also the argument that, in that case, why don't Tezuka Productions just make a Kimba movie in Japan and have Disney distribute the dub in America, rather than Disney make their own version? There, Tezuka Productions would have full creative control.
If Disney decided to do an original film, then it's likely it would not follow the same beats as The Lion King because they're more aware of the parallels between the characters of the Lion King and Kimba (In fact, if they did The Lion King as is, then Tezuka Productions could potentially hear of it and protest against the development of the film for using characters that are too similar to Kimba), even if they are superficial. Might as well do a film about African mythology like Anansi or Mwindo as an alternative.

That's also a good point about a dub about a Japanese Kimba film (In fact, Disney could produce the dub themselves and release it), but then that would probably satisfy Disney's desires for a film about animals (or even an African film, but that's very unlikely for ITTL Disney) if they did not produce one already. It's actually more realistic that Disney would do this than the Kimba adaptation, but I was thinking of a way to introduce some of the plot of TLK into Kimba.

I can also see Henson being interested in naturalistic, animal-centric films as a concept, like Bambi (for a historical example) and The Land Before Time (for a recent example ITTL), and an African animal movie is one of the first possible suggestions for a setting - aside from another dinosaur movie.
Yeah, I don't doubt for a second that Henson will not do a movie centered around animals for the near future, so it's not out of the table just yet. I'm still hopeful that Tezuka collabs with Disney for a Kimba adaptation in that case.

Speaking of Dinotopia, I generally think that it could be a better fit in live-action w/ Creatureworks effects and CGI than animated because of how amazing it would be to see practical effects for all of the dinosaurs involved, especially in movement. It'd be a more positive/optimistic counterpart to Universal's Jurassic Park in that case.
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Speaking of Dinotopia, I generally think that it could be a better fit in live-action w/ Creatureworks effects and CGI than animated because of how amazing it would be to see practical effects for all of the dinosaurs involved, especially in movement. It'd be a more positive/optimistic counterpart to Universal's Jurassic Park in that case.
xkFQvT7Pe9OIl-C-zsiNhW3N066j-e-p8hd8tRWGmt4.jpg
*Nervously sweats*

But yeah, i'm totally down for a Anansai Disney film.
 
But yeah, i'm totally down for a Anansai Disney film.
Absolutely - however, I would say that a naturalistic animal-centric Disney film about African wildlife in the 1990s would be a good idea and one that would certainly appeal to Henson's sensibilities.

However, having a few more mystical elements in said film would be a good idea.

If Disney decided to do an original film, then it's likely it would not follow the same beats as The Lion King because they're more aware of the parallels between the characters of the Lion King and Kimba (In fact, if they did The Lion King as is, then Tezuka Productions could potentially hear of it and protest against the development of the film for using characters that are too similar to Kimba), even if they are superficial. Might as well do a film about African mythology like Anansi or Mwindo as an alternative.
The reason why I'm loathe to butterfly The Lion King entirely is principally because some of the earlier drafts of The Lion King (readily available online) are much less similar to Kimba - and sound damnably intriguing.
 
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But yeah, i'm totally down for a Anansai Disney film.
It'd go full circle if an Anansi Disney film that celebrates African culture emerged from frankly racist origins with The Song of the South and the stories of Brer Rabbit through the remake.
I like it!

The reason why I'm loathe to butterfly The Lion King entirely is principally because some of the earlier drafts of The Lion King (readily available online) are much less similar to Kimba - and sound damnably intriguing.
Like the one about lions vs. babbopns with Rafiki as a cheetah?
Yeah, I'd rather see The Lion King be different than OTL if we must have it as part of the Disney canon. Maybe they go with something similar to the earlier story drafts and go along with that.

*Nervously sweats*
I'd be totally okay if Disney just did every single piece of media related to dinosaurs. I even thought about Disney collabing with the BBC for Walking with Dinosaurs through the Creatureworks and the Disney Digital Division once.
 
King of the Kalahari's pretty much a concept - the studio can go pretty much anywhere with it. Early TLK drafts mention a whole host of different animals becoming friends and/or mentors to Simba. How about instead of Hamlet, the inspiration is Shakespeare's Henry trilogy with Anansi as Falstaff?

On the downside, no Timon or Pumbaa...
I'd be totally okay if Disney just did every single piece of media related to dinosaurs. I even thought about Disney collabing with the BBC for Walking with Dinosaurs through the Creatureworks and the Disney Digital Division once.
Gonna re-bump the Prehistoric Park pitch - Jurassic Park but educational.
 
African is a big continent, with an impressive variety of biomes and wildlife depending where you look; that’s why Tarzan was able to be adapted a bit later (regardless what you think of quality), and between it and The Lion King that’s only the jungles and the savanna (presumably in the northern half). You’ve got different mythologies based on the area, you have the Sahara, the Horn of Africa, the Congo, the southern half in general, Madagascar (which Dreamworks tapped into)… possibilities know no limit here.

Whatever it is, looking forward to seeing it play out. Trust the Khan guys, he knows what he’s doing.
 
Hi, everyone, I just caught up a day or two ago. It’s been great reading everything Y’all have been writing but I’ve got some ideas to add to the timeline.



Suggestions for movies and tv shows



  • I agree with the general sentiments above and think a batman movie featuring The Court of Owls and leaning into horror could be truly horrifying and amazing. With him being trapped underground In the maze there is the potential for a lot of the movie to be dialogue free (except for occasional villainous taunts/monologues) using the evolution/devolution of batman’s fighting style from being ninja-like to a more vicious and animalistic style to show his level of desperation/hunger for survival.

  • With the time jump where batman is established and has a big-ish family of companions you could kill two birds with one stone in regards to trying to show LGBT+ representation/feminist themes by having Batwoman show up to help defend the people and setting up/teasing a dramatic/melodramatic prequel movie about her experiences with ‘don’t ask don’t tell’, the sexism/rape culture in the United States army, depicting a committed lesbian relationship, the daily difficulties/problems of life where going overseas could mean all without detracting from her fight against a good villain or gang of villains. Since LGBT+ stuff in the minds of review writers can automatically makes movies as scary as ‘The Green Inferno’ there’s a strong opportunity to use some of Batman’s edgier/more psychopathic villains like Victor Zsaz, The Mad Hatter or calendar man.

  • Another movie/short Idea could be “The Goblin and The Grocer” If you could use a similar art style as was used in ‘The secret of Kells’ it could be amazing and show strong themes of how a compromise between practicality and transcendent euphoria makes for a good life.

  • An idea I had for a Western tv Disney (or another company/person) may want to make (perhaps a remake/reimagining of The Lone Ranger or a reimagining of Robin Hood) would be to set it in China. This would be a good excuse to show off the natural wonders of the landscape and the capability, inventiveness, intelligence and independence of the Chinese people. (There may be some difficulties with this when China’s government tells them what they can and can’t say/record/film.)



I’d also like NWA and Disney to collaborate on something (not a cheesy cringy anti-drugs/rap propaganda video) like a movie or album. You see this a lot of the time in reality with people and organisations you’d never figure would meet working together on projects such as Elvis and Nixon.



Advertising and its spinoff effects



  • You could easily win Disney some clout as an interesting place for advertising people to work for/with if they had the spine to throw some money towards developing an alternate reality game as advertising for a movie with rewards for the people who were first able to find the clues and follow the trail. With Steve Jobs as a shareholder who has experience working with and developing computers for children there’s room for him to suggest involving computers and children in it. There are limits to the technology of the time but clues could be hidden; On the back of computer monitors, in early computer games, on posters in Disney movies, in the bookshelves of libraries and in locations in the real world (maybe using historical secret codes).

  • This could lead to the development of puzzle solving culture/subculture and earlier interest/development of mobile devices and scannable technology such a QR codes.
 
Welcome to the madhouse.
  • An idea I had for a Western tv Disney (or another company/person) may want to make (perhaps a remake/reimagining of The Lone Ranger or a reimagining of Robin Hood) would be to set it in China. This would be a good excuse to show off the natural wonders of the landscape and the capability, inventiveness, intelligence and independence of the Chinese people. (There may be some difficulties with this when China’s government tells them what they can and can’t say/record/film.)
PBS had Sagwa, which as a kid was 9/10ths of my knowledge of ancient China. Disney could also do something about Russia, with the Berlin Wall coming down and all that.

Of course, Geekhis would have to butterfly the PRC into a more benign entity, otherwise they're going to toxify any attempt at cultural exchange like they do now.
I’d also like NWA and Disney to collaborate on something (not a cheesy cringy anti-drugs/rap propaganda video) like a movie or album. You see this a lot of the time in reality with people and organisations you’d never figure would meet working together on projects such as Elvis and Nixon.
Alas, the year is 1990. Cube has already quit, and we're less than a year away from No Vaseline. Best you could do is grab him or Dre as a celebrity actor - I've already suggested Pac, since he was almost cast in some pretty big roles of his time.
 
How about instead of Hamlet, the inspiration is Shakespeare's Henry trilogy with Anansi as Falstaff?
I might be wrong but Anansi doesn't really strike me as a Falstaff.
On the downside, no Timon or Pumbaa...
Shakespeare doesn't have a Mutt & Jeff/Abbott & Costello type in his works?
An idea I had for a Western tv Disney (or another company/person) may want to make (perhaps a remake/reimagining of The Lone Ranger or a reimagining of Robin Hood) would be to set it in China. This would be a good excuse to show off the natural wonders of the landscape and the capability, inventiveness, intelligence and independence of the Chinese people. (There may be some difficulties with this when China’s government tells them what they can and can’t say/record/film.)
Why reinterpret a western hero in China when China has their own heroes, with Monkey/Monkey King one of the more well known.
 
  1. One of Anansi’s biggest stories is how he stole the very concept of stories and gave it to us. I can’t see why Disney couldn’t make his movie about that. Though I’d have a bit of creative license and make it the mystical concept of creativity itself. Who should play Anansi? I’d say that since he’s a trickster I’d suggest either Will Smith or Eddie Murphy. And I’d have the rest of the voice cast be black as well.
  2. Would the Court of Owls be hiring the services of a certain Doctor Crane in their movie? You’d be about to take advantage of the hallucinogenic effects of the fear toxin and have the Joker come back via said hallucinations. Basically the Arkham Knight plot. So he’d be dealing with the Court and Scarecrow while also dealing with a clown only he can see and hear.
  3. Whatever the Batsuit looks like, and I’m picturing a more serious take on the Adam West suit, it needs to be able to let him look around without having to turn his entire body. Which was the only downside to the Burton Batsuit.
  4. I was going to suggest that Disney make a movie based on Journey To The West, but that book is so long that they could make an entire series on it. With maybe a TV movie featuring the opening section all about Sun Wukong’s life story. Disney could establish a direct partnership with an anime studio to make it.




 
Hi, everyone, I just caught up a day or two ago. It’s been great reading everything Y’all have been writing but I’ve got some ideas to add to the timeline.



Suggestions for movies and tv shows



  • I agree with the general sentiments above and think a batman movie featuring The Court of Owls and leaning into horror could be truly horrifying and amazing. With him being trapped underground In the maze there is the potential for a lot of the movie to be dialogue free (except for occasional villainous taunts/monologues) using the evolution/devolution of batman’s fighting style from being ninja-like to a more vicious and animalistic style to show his level of desperation/hunger for survival.

  • With the time jump where batman is established and has a big-ish family of companions you could kill two birds with one stone in regards to trying to show LGBT+ representation/feminist themes by having Batwoman show up to help defend the people and setting up/teasing a dramatic/melodramatic prequel movie about her experiences with ‘don’t ask don’t tell’, the sexism/rape culture in the United States army, depicting a committed lesbian relationship, the daily difficulties/problems of life where going overseas could mean all without detracting from her fight against a good villain or gang of villains. Since LGBT+ stuff in the minds of review writers can automatically makes movies as scary as ‘The Green Inferno’ there’s a strong opportunity to use some of Batman’s edgier/more psychopathic villains like Victor Zsaz, The Mad Hatter or calendar man.
While I can’t speak as well for some other things you mentioned, I would caution you not to jump the gun on Batman - first, because a lot of these stories would not appear in the comics for a while yet; second, because (unless Geekhis Khan retcons it) there will be a reboot in the 21st century after Raimi has done a trilogy with Dafoe’s Batman. I daresay he’s already figured out which villains will feature in the next two films and based on the wiki article I personally don’t expect Scarecrow; TRL!Raimi wanted to use him as a metaphor on the War on Drugs before repurposing it for Robin Williams’ Joker and more saliently, a story as complex as you suggested might look… too nuanced, shall we say, for 90s studios (if you look at 90s superhero films you notice that besidesBlade and Burton’s Batman, they still weren’t treated as serious fare)… don’t get me started on comics entering the Dark Age, as indicated by a previous post or two (“The Death of Superman” was mentioned… hopefully this timeline has “Kingdom Come”, at least!)

…Granted, Raimi desiring Scarecrow for his first BM film and to save Joker for a sequel also felt like a nod to the OTL and Nolan doing that in his trilogy (which of course would be copied to usually-lesser success by later superhero films). But I’d hope that, Joker excepting, the reboot ITTL uses villains that Raimi did not (unlike TDKR which, while improving Bane despite the predictable twist turn, also had a less memorable Catwoman…)

[NB: I also realised that, since IOTL “The Death of Superman” happened in a very particular set of circumstances - “Lois and Clark” was going to do the marriage plotline, which led DC execs and their fixation on keeping all continuities in sync to stop the Superman comics writers from doing it when they wanted, forcing them to pad time which led to them saying “screw it, let’s actually just kill him” - I wonder if it happens under similar-but-different circumstances or if it’s pretty much exactly the same in terms of timing, L&C as an adaptation, etc.]
Would The Tempest work as inspiration for the Lion King ITTL? We might be able to keep Timon & Pumbaa if we could.
It may, actually; we could even do more active magic if we used that. Of course, doing a shipwreck and isolated island may be hard (and less appealing), though one could do an oasis in a desert or something… What species would everyone be? Not just Prospero and Miranda, but Ariel, Caliban, and the other humans (whose names I cannot recall).

That reminds me, also, of Julie Taymor - before she wrecked her reputation with the god-awful “Spider-Man: Turn Out The Lights”, she had done many films and theatrical adaptations, especially of Shakespeare or such-inspired properties. Including “The Lion King” and “The Tempest”, and in both cases she gender swapped a character (Rafiki, which worked since the character AND the role of wise elder, are gender neutral, and Prospero which was a more feminist retelling of thst story). Not that I’m suggesting anything should be done there, but it’s kind of interesting. Frankly, the more I think on it the more I like a Lion King/Tempest hybrid bring made by Disnet ITTL.

…Or, y’know, maybe “King Lear”? *shrugs*
 
Would the Court of Owls be hiring the services of a certain Doctor Crane in their movie? You’d be about to take advantage of the hallucinogenic effects of the fear toxin and have the Joker come back via said hallucinations. Basically the Arkham Knight plot. So he’d be dealing with the Court and Scarecrow while also dealing with a clown only he can see and hear.
Not going to happen as the Court of Owls is a creation of Scott Snyder (who would be 13 at this point ITTL) who introduced them as part of the New 52 in 2011.
 
Not going to happen as the Court of Owls is a creation of Scott Snyder (who would be 13 at this point ITTL) who introduced them as part of the New 52 in 2011.
Someone could introduce a variation of the Court, either in the comics or in another medium; if the latter, they could then make the jump from say, a Tv Series into the comics a la Harley Quinn.

It’s worth noting that the original story idea that became Smallville was supposed to be a “Young Bruce Wayne” story, which was ditched due to some legality involving Tv rights that made them not allowed to use him. This also hampered an attempt to try and bring young Bruce into SV in Season 3 as a plan for a temporary love triangle brtween him, Lana Lang and Clark Kent; the resultant “Adam Knight” character was summarily killed off when it was clear the storyline wasn’t gelling… It’s worth noting that even the Arrowverse didn’t use any version of Bruce Wayne (despite using Superman directly, alluding to Batman, and even making a Kate Kane spin-off) until the “Crisis On Infinite Earths” spin-off - and said version we did see was an older Fallen Hero from a separate Earth.

My point being that, depending on what DC higher ups try to do ITTL, we could get the Tv rights to Young Batman around say, the late 90s (smack between the Raimi trilogy/BTAS, and the reboot), which may implement new elements like TTL’s Court of Owls (before Scott Snyder ever joins DC), and in turn they (and other ideas) could be introduced into the main comics.

Granted, knowing how bizarre DC gets about character rights, I’m not liable to get too enthused about the possibility. Remember how embargoes affected the DCAU, specifically JLU? For starters, they pulled Aquaman and his whole supporting cast due to an attempted Aquaman Tv show; his last appearance was JLU Season 1, meaning despite being a longtime recurring JL character he didn’t play a part in the Cadmus arc, and two stories that featured (respectively) Arthur and Black Manta needed rewriting (the first used Wonder Woman, the second introduced a BM-in-name called “Devil Ray”). Around the same time, due to both the Nolan films and “The Batman”, they pulled Bats’ whole supporting cast and villains, which led to Hugo Strange having a brief cameo with Cadmus before vanishing AND an intended “Birds of Prey” episode (written by Gail Simone no less) being altered. On separate notes, “The Batman” animated series was forbidden from using Ra’s al Ghul or Scarecrow due to Batman Begins having them as its villains (despite letting them use ANYONE else); this is implied to also be at least part of why Teen Titans skirts around mentioning Batman by name… and THAT series using Robin is why “The Batman” did not use him until Season 4 (after TT finished), while having Batgirl debut before him in Season 3.
 
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