Sixes and Snake eyes Rommel's luck in an alternate 1942 desert war

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CalBear

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Thinking of the difficulties and the survival chances, I was wondering how they’d pick the crews for the Grants:
“Congratulations gentlemen. You will crew the captured British tanks. You were selected based on your scores at tank training school.”
“But we had the worst scores.”
“Exactly. Good luck.”
Assuming the crews could actually operate the American vehicles (which is a very separate issue, as is making sure that their mates don't accidentally blow a hole in them while operating the most distinctive enemy vehicle on the battlefield) it is likely that they would be delighted.

The Lee-Grant was, handily, the most powerful tank on the battlefield, unless the Germans had 88s in support it simply mopped the floor with any and all of the deployed Axis tanks. They were, as was generally the case with American vehicles, more reliable than their British, German or Italian counterparts, heavily armored for the era and the 75mm gun with its ability to fire both AP and High Explosive rounds was a total game changer. A year later they were vastly inferior to the newer long barrel Pz. III and Pz. IV, and had been surpassed by yet anougher much under appreciated U.S. design, the Sherman, by the end of 1942, but when made their appearance and until the Axis had been pushed out of North Africa altogether, the Lee was major pain in the Axis's... neck.
 
9

cardcarrier

Banned
Chapter 9

06-01-42 23:59 hrs British 8th army and Middle East HQ Cairo Egypt Reporting back to American President Roosevelt and Joint Chiefs of Staff; Colonel Bonner Fellers, American military attache to MEGHQ

Urgent updates

Situation inside GHQ and frontlines increasingly chaotic, briefings are off schedule; will report 2-3 times per day or more as ordered
Brig general Haydon advises all artillery ammunition exhausted and is surrendering command to Axis forces; 150th brigade and minor tank elements are gone
This opens significant gap in Ritchie center of line; allowing further investment of forces on the coastal road
Remaining forces at Knights bridge have axis forces on all sides; but are not in a close envelopement
Ritchie requests permission to execute operation freeborn (evacuation of Gazala line and Tobruk)
Auchinlek orders units to declare how much fuel and ammunition they have remaining to assess if operation free born is possible for the remaining troops in the north
Privately staff officers advise that Indian formations at Knightsbridge do not have enough fuel or a safe avenue of advance for freeborne unless German units driven back
GHQ requests permission from London for freeborn, answer not yet received
Privately staff officers advise that formations at Knightsbridge have many wounded and may not be able to withstand an encirclement
Desert Airforce fighters are making max effort from Sidi Barani and frontier airfields but they are experiencing heavy consumption of drop tanks and short time on station; high pressure on kitty hawks which are only units with sufficient range
Significant axis artillery strikes on Tobruk, tank and infantry assaults; situation developing, difficult to obtain reporting on Tobruk since yesterday; scattered reports of axis tank columns all along Tobruk perimeter;
South African Staff officers privately advise that Garrison and defenses are weak and that freeborn for Tobruk should have been ordered 2 days ago
South African staff officers privately advise 29th Indian is not strong enough to reopen communication back to Egypt; some previously defeated tank formations being ad hoc reassembled in their wake to support attacks to retake Belhamed;
No concrete briefings given when 29th will actually attack
Various sources claim fresh German troops arriving at Belhamed
Local spies say 35000 troops at Belhamed; local spies report large concentrations of armor along Tobruk perimeter that doesn't match limited communication from field
Communication with troops along coastal road heavily impacted, two 8th army staff officers preparing new assessment of communications with surviving formations on coastal road
Privately staff officers believe Rommel has obtained many intelligence documents in captured HQ
South African staff officers privately advise minefield maps of Tobruk position possibly lost or captured when Arcoma overun
Ritchie acknowledges for first time that large stockpiles of axis ammunition had not been disposed of at El Adem after the British recaptured this area in Operation Crusader; this may explain surprise movements and engagements by the DAK; Ritchie acknowledges that it is likely the axis would have grabbed these munitions in tact to resupply their army
Ritchie believes we may have spies inside GHQ; Auchinlek disagrees and claims all in GHQ are his handpicked people. Rumor throughout GHQ that General Smith advocates for General Ritchie to be relieved and that Smith himself would take over the 8th army
Desert airforce staff emphatically endorses freeborn
Royal Navy staff emphatically endorses freeborn
Per private conversations some commonwealth staff officers (especially the south africans) appealing outside chain of command at GHQ to their political leaders to pressure London for freeborn
Spies and other intelligence sources advise new armored formations arriving to Tripoli
Royal Navy staff officers reiterate evacuation or siege supply of Tobruk is impossible for them
Royal Navy staff officers privately advise they believe Rommel will invade Egypt
Royal Navy staff officers preparing plans to open sluices to flood the Nile Delta if Rommel invades Egypt, GHQ estimates Rommel has very limited Bridging equipment
Royal Navy staff officers privately advise they are preparing plan of demolitions in case Rommel may capture Alexandria
Royal Navy staff officers privately advise several important vessels under repair, and that evacuation of fleet would be very difficult
Auchinlek and Ritchie vigorously oppose all Royal Navy contingency plans for Egypt citing morale impact
Auchinlek and Ritchie press navy to transport reinforcement from middle east and other parts of command to Egypt faster
First light raids on rail head to frontier; will report more on this later
Auchinlek preparing special operations counterstroke against theater axis air bases
Royal Navy staff officers report several enemy submarines outside Tobruk

Personal observations
GHQ staff gravely impacted by army being split in half, high levels of anxiety permeate the GHQ all the time now
Auchinlek and Ritchie do not acknowledge the army as having been separated, but their maps do acknowledge such
The impasse with London has done great strategic harm to the army; our staff felt Freeborn should have been ordered 48 hours ago
In light of continued disclosures from South African staff officers; our staff regards Tobruk garrison to be in critical risk of defeat
South African staff officers privately advise that attacks today where largely in the south east; where the defenses are weak, they advise Axis tanks penetrating the perimeter in unknown numbers
Ritchie and his staff are only just beginning to acknowledge the large quantities of supplies that Rommel has stolen from them; General Smith downplays this; going forward we will prepare our own analysis based on lend lease receipts and rail head manifests; 8th army counting methods have proven unreliable
Auchinlek and London discussed for first time asking USA ground troops be deployed to Egypt to restore front; our staff HIGHLY recommends if any USA divisions introduced, they have separate army command and supply command
South African staff officers privately advised for first time that many of their troops in Tobruk do not have enough vehicles to execute freeborn even if the orders come; General Smith temporarily removed us from room when we asked about the viability of Freeborn
Our staff estimates that Toburk harbor will be compromised very shortly; the ability of the garrison to hold out is still being evaluated due to many new disclosures; our 4 week siege model is likely no longer helpful
Our staff believes the forces at Knights bridge have 1/2 chance of break out to the east if freeborn is ordered tomorrow; only if they leave their wounded behind
Our staff believes the forces at Gazala have a 1/3 chance to break out to the east presuming much german armor is invested at Tobruk and that they leave much equipment and their wounded behind
Movement of investment forces from Sidi Muftah critical to the above; if those siege formations get to Sidra Ridge or the coastal road, the Knightsbridge or Gazala formations respectively are near certain lost
8th army in our opinion is gravely weakened at some risk of collapse; if Rommel wanted to invade Egypt and capture the delta; now is the time
Our staff believes that freeborn means abandoning most of army's equipment and supplies to Rommel; which would greatly ease his known shortages
GHQ does not have clear picture if Rommel means to press Tobruk or Gazala first

end transmission


bolded items are otl events or quotes with only dates different for the timeline
 
Lets get real. This is not below standard compared to the average on this Forum. It simply is not. The artillery is an honest mistake and now corrected 1:1 for another caliber.
The captured tanks…. there has been no mention as to there efficacy. The axis repeatedly did this. I find it plausible that in a situation like this, the available crews would be assigned the captured tank and learn on the road. Most likely assigned defensive roles in combat, but the alternative, to leave them behind and drive the tank crews across the desert without tanks doesn’t make sense either.
Other aspects regarding the axis strategic logistic situation, there has been no deviation from OTL so it simply makes no sense to blame the author that he has been repeatedly bashed with that argument. To see you do it is quite demoralizing.

If we stay in the realm of plausibility, the TL attracts a lot of heat because of the subject and the side of deviation from OTL. You can quickly scroll through the forum and see countless less plausible scenarios that are allowed because it doesn’t imply a better axis performance in a theater anywhere as this one does.
I hope I will be allowed to write this: In my opinion, and it’s obvious in this TL that has deviated very little from OTL, you are not behaving as a neutral moderator in this TL, even if you listen to the loudest complaints.
See the thing is that no the axis didn't do this, all the examples I have found for captured alise tanks is that it takes 2 week minimum and usually 4 weeks most of the time before they are put into battle. Not once are they used in the same battle they are captured in. And the orpen tank crews are not being gust carted about now, they are training in there new tanks so that when the dak is ready to launch the attack agenst Egypt they can be led by grants. That fact that the dak used captured tanks isn't the issue here, its how fast there doing it. You have managed to find one example were extraordinarily desprit people managed to get a tank working and fighting in a day, but why would the same be true for the dak, there not in nearly as big of a herey to get these tanks working so why try?
Also I dint think the gun thing was a issue the unit probably gust wasn't stud up yet but bilding up 7.2 inch guns for a offensive in 2 months is exactly like what the clowns in ciro would do.
 
I'm enjoying this timeline, it is fascinating to me. Appreciate the bolded parts in the latest update, because a number of times I've read something and thought 'did that really happen, or is it part of the timeline?'
Late to the argument on the Grants. Unfamiliar tank, unfamiliar weapons. Maybe the Germans could get some going in 4 days, but I sure wouldn't want to use them for anything more than chasing routed infantry. As others have said, maybe 2-4 weeks rather than 4 days to use them. On the other hand, if Rommel's desperate enough and with Egypt as the prize, he might take the chance.
Overall, please keep going, I'm keen to see what the result is.
 
A German truck and a British truck are much the same. A Grant and a Panzer II not so much. This issue with the Grant's is not about luck its about whether its actually possible to in four days:
Repaint the tanks so they don't attract friendly fire
Assemble crews with the right skill sets
Enough of them having good enough English to read technical manuals
Learning to operate and maintain unfamiliar equipment
Learn the characteristics of guns which as pointed out earlier are not the same even if they have the same calibre.

Now if you are essentially saying these things are happening because your plot needs them to happen, that's fine but I think you owe it to those who have been following this thread far more closely than myself that is what you are going to do, that yes, the thumb is firmly on the scale.
For the Afrika Korps fighting in the North African desert, however, captured tanks were put to frontline use as often as possible. German forces often had difficulties receiving adequate resupply. Replacement tanks had to be shipped across the Mediterranean, something the Royal Navy and Air Force tried hard to prevent. Also, the fighting in Russia often took priority over the fighting in the desert, leading to shortages of all kinds for the Afrika Korps, including tanks. Captured British tanks were used to fill the gaps. While British tanks are often viewed as inferior to their German counterparts, it should be noted that in the early period of the war the qualitative differences were usually not so dramatic. One must also consider that when faced with the need, even a “bad” tank is much better than no tank at all.

Both the 15th and 21st Panzer Divisions of the Afrika Korps formed provisional units of captured English armor in 1941. The size of these units varied widely from time to time, since new vehicles were acquired and those in use broke down, were cannibalized for parts, or were lost in combat. By February 1942, a consolidated captured tank unit was created for the Afrika Korps as a whole. It remained in service until the end of the fighting in Africa, since newly captured vehicles were funneled to it as others were lost. A maximum of 18 tanks comprised the unit, though numbers constantly fluctuated. Various models of British tanks served in these units, including Matildas, Valentines, and Crusaders. Only a very few examples of American tanks in British service were taken.


The Grant was a new tank to them, but they were familiar with the rest of the British tank force. with more tank captures then in the OTL it would be plausible for 15th, and 21st Panzer Divisions to each form a company of captured tanks. I believe a German panzer company had 22 tanks. Having a hundred would be pushing the limits. The Grant/Lee's are sort of odd machines, that might be used more as self propelled guns. Looking through the gunsights is pretty self explanatory to a gunner trained on another tank, so are the jobs of loader, driver, or machine gunner. Your not going to have a well trained crew, but they'd have the basics down pretty quickly. Tank commanders and crew manly have to get used to the ergonomics to start using the tank, with minimal efficiency.
 
I think we all agree that DAK used captured Panzers and that the most common approach if these had been damaged would be to work them up in a lull in the fighting.
That is not the case here. They are not damaged and there is no lull in the fighting.
I find it perfectly plausible that DAK would spend a minimum of time in making them join the fighting but how much is that. To form a coherent unit fitting into German combined arms tactics, probably weeks. To be used as self propelled AT guns probably really minimal. To defend the depot where they have been taken in that role? Well that actually blend in with the ideal scenario.
Let’s ask @cardcarrier how they are deployed?
 
The British had two medium (artillery) regiments, the 67th and the 68th, at Gazala. Each had 8 BL 4.5" guns and 8 155mm howitzers of French designed obtained from lend-lease sources. Both were attached to 2nd South African Division in the north but were able to fall back to Tobruk in OTL before surrendering on 21/6. 68th had one troop break out earlier and claims to have destroyed their equipment before they surrendered.

No 5.5 inch guns arrived in Africa until after Gazala. The British only had 16 at 2nd Alamein.

7.2 inch guns arrived in Africa as per of 1st army and reached the front in January 1943.

The Germans captured a considerable number of guns but lacked the transport to bring them forward. They also lacked the transport to move all of their own artillery.

To quote https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=104408 (the author claims to have spent 5 years at the time working on Gazala OOBs.)

"(Axis) Artillery losses from unit reports 26 May - 6 June 1942:

FA - 35
AT - 152
AA - 29
OTH - 36
TOTAL = 252

Note that the loss of artillery reported does not match the decline in artillery strength from the report of 25 May (1675) to that of 8 June (710). However, it appears that many pieces were left immobile due to the heavy loss of prime movers in the Cauldron battles. There are some indications that, as the pursuit of the UK forces began, many artillery pieces were left behind in Bardia, Sollum, and Tobruk (after they were captured). These additional vehicles augmented the army logistic transport capability, making the pursuit into Egypt possible. These remaining pieces were slowly brought forward as transport capability and the stabilization of the front permitted. Many apparently remained in storage and were lost when the British re-conquered Cyrenaica after the battle of El Alamein."

In OTL the Germans managed to bring forward 12 25 Pounders and 4 BL 4.5 inch guns in time for 2nd Alamein. [Edit] The Germans were also using 5 of the French 155mm.

Even if the Axis capture more trucks/lose less of their own ITTL, they going to need them for the extra infantry they've flown in the what appears to be larger number of tanks/other forces surviving, not for moving large numbers of captured artillery .

By far the largest example of the Germans using captured tanks in North Africa is the 'trophey' panzer company of 12 M3 Stuarts attached to Kampfgruppe "Kiehl" ie Rommel's HQ at Gazala.
 
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Brig general Haydon advises all artillery ammunition exhausted and is surrendering command to Axis forces; 150th brigade and minor tank elements are gone

bolded items are otl events or quotes with only dates different for the timeline
OTL the box was attacked over several days by 2 German and 1 Italian division. IIRC ITTL it has been invested but not attacked by 2 Italian divisions but the result is the same.

The perimeter of the box is say 16 miles; the Italians will have a longer perimeter as they are not closely investing it; they will also have to maintain an outer perimeter to prevent any relief forces breaking through - the 2 regiment Italian divisions will be stretched very thinly. Also, if they're not attacking then 150 brigade will not be shooting off its ammunition.
 
The British had two medium (artillery) regiments, the 67th and the 68th, at Gazala. Each had 8 BL 4.5" guns and 8 155mm howitzers of French designed obtained from lend-lease sources. Both were attached to 2nd South African Division in the north but were able to fall back to Tobruk in OTL before surrendering on 21/6.
Just what's needed for counter-battery fire against the captured British guns.
 

Garrison

Donor
Well that plus the Allies found a different commander for the 8th Army in time for the Battle of Alam Halfa - who cancelled the 'let's fight Rommel piecemeal so he can defeat us in detail' thing which Dorman-Smith had come up with and had somehow persuaded Auchinleck was a good idea.
I would suggest the first time Rommel 'rolled a 6' was the capture of General O'Connor in April 1942. Overall though I would say looking at military history the improvement in British leadership actually reflects a pattern you can see going all the way back to Hannibal. A charismatic commander with lesser resources but more drive and energy inflicts defeats on a better resourced but poorly led opponent, but they lack the means to inflict a knockout blow. Eventually the better resourced enemy finds someone who can wield those superior resources at least competently and things go very badly for the charismatic commander. In the desert the harsh realities of logistics and supply lines meant Rommel never had the means to inflict the knockout blow and sooner or later the British were going to fix their command problem.
 
Just what's needed for counter-battery fire against the captured British guns.
As I recall the earlier updates, the captured British guns (whatever caliber) were placed in defence near the captured depots. Not sure they will reach Tobruk ITTL? Guess it depends how fast things unfold.
The guns mentioned here for counterbattery fire, will they be able to fall back to Tobruk ITTL?

edit: In earlier version I somehow wrote Kursk. Strange how the mind works
 
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As I recall the earlier updates, the captured British guns (whatever caliber) were placed in defence near the captured depots. Not sure they will reach Tobruk ITTL? Guess it depends how fast things unfold.
IIRC they have already started harassing fire on Torbruk.
The guns mentioned here for counterbattery fire, will they be able to fall back to Kursk ITTL?
Kursk may be a little ambitious. :)
 
9.1

cardcarrier

Banned
Chapter 9.1

06-01-1942 23:59hrs Panzer Army Africa Command Post, Arcoma Libya, Commander GeneralOberst Irwin Rommel, Chief of Operations Oberst Siegfried Westphal Commander 621st Radio Interception Company Hauptman Alfred Seebohme

GOER: For decisive leadership in the face of the enemy Hauptman Alfred Seebohme is hereby awarded the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross, he is promoted to major with seniority effective 5-1-42

Captain Seebohme had been instrumental in the destruction of the 150th brigade box; braving British artillery fire and potential brushes with armored car patrols, his listening posts and intercepted communications to the 150th regarding their orders into interdict the swept mine fields to their north and south to delay/damage axis supply convoys; Seebohme had suggested and then commanded a continuation of General Rommel's initial ruse de guerre against the forces at Gazala; namely that a number of trucks had aircraft engines mounted to their beds; for the express purpose of kicking up large dust clouds to confuse British observation

These had been initially used the day before the offensive started, as the DAK and Italian mobile corps marched in circles opposite the British and South Africans at Gazala to try to demonstrate to the 8th army that Rommel was assembling armor for an attack; the trucks added to this by stirring up great sand clouds; which gave the appearance from the ground and from 10000 feet that the entire DAK was being marshaled for a frontal assault on Gazala

Although most supplies had gone through further to the south, direct through Bir Hakeim where there where better paths available after the French Box was defeated; and the DAK had partially lived off the land, Seebohme had been able to show his superiors the orders issued to 150th; 2 specially detailed platoons marched the dust trucks through the swept paths around Sidi Muftah, which as Seebohme expected drew great amounts of artillery fire onto largely empty desert; already isolated the first day of the offensive; the 150th had consumed much of it's remaining stores the previous day in the attempt to link up with relief attacks from Knightsbridge

The emplacement of Ariete and corps artillery assets on Aalagh ridge, had caught these forces by surprise, which lead to the attacks being defeated; and both the Indians and the British suffering considerable casualties; assaults on dug in Italian anti tank guns and machine guns where costly failures; especially in the eastern section of the box where they went into the fresh Trieste division

As much as General Haydon's ammunition was in it's final reserves; it was also the burden of the wounded, and the heavy air attacks on the box that lead him to send a white flag party through the lines to seek terms with his Italian counterparts; the failure of the relief attacks lead to subordinate commanders recommending the unit not continue to suffer; as a second attempt could see the whole sale slaughter of the brigade. The 150th had a difficult war; a first wave territorial formation activated 1939 when war was declared over Poland, they had several near death encirclement brushes with the German army in Belgium; and where evacuated out of Dunkirk in June 1940; one of the first formations to be rebuilt to defend the home islands from invasion; they had eventually been redeployed to Africa; separated from their mother division several times whom remained the Cyprus or other Middle Eastern Garrison duties. Then placed by General Ritchie in a badly exposed section of the line; too far from mutually supporting fire from their sister brigades to the north, or the French to the south; the unit would not be re-raised by London during this war

Rommel would pin a medal on Colonel Fellers himself if he could; the accidental disclosure of glaring weaknesses in the Tobruk perimeter had been confirmed with captured documents at Arcoma; which was being exploited by the 90th light and elements of the 15th panzer division; The south africans for reasons Rommel couldn't understand had much of their ammunition stockpiles located in the south eastern areas of the fortress; which fell in the first few hours of the assault. Why would the South Africans put the ammunition where it was easiest for German tanks to get at it; it was one of a number of strange command decisions Rommel was finding himself having to double think; reading Fellers notes gave part of the answer; political conflict, but the deployment of the Garrison; especially once he disrupted their communications looked badly disjointed. General Kleeman was reporting steady progress, and one of Seebohme's squads was well forward, and had identified the 2nd south african divisions command post and had it under artillery fire

The first 640 paratroopers of the Ramcke Brigade had been flown in and would continue to relieve the 90th light division of it's great burden at Belhamed, general Raus had landed at Tripoli and was briefly overseeing some of the new Littorio division's personel being unloaded; the division would still not be fully ready or delivered for a few weeks; the first elements where getting their desert familiarization course just now. Marshal Kesselring advised that priority would be given to the Ramcke brigades remaining paratroop infantry and then troopers of the 6th panzer would be brought in to make good some of Rommel's crew losses. Rommel bit his tongue when considering that, he had accomplished much; but lost much; a more shrewd commander he thought would realize that both generals had each other by the balls; but Ritchie's mailbox showed he didn't see it that way.

Kesselring advised as well that some additional Italian replacements where being put into the pipeline, with the belief that Rommel had found the schewpunkt and would defeat the 8th army; Marhsal Cavallero had authorized the release of troops from the Livorno assault and landing division; and the special tank regiment (Italian tankers put through a vigorous training program on captured Russian tanks which where intended for operation Herkules) no concrete dates or schedule for these troops had been established yet; but Rommel would still be delighted to eventually have them; he was going to have an army sized army now; well enough replacements to keep his army an army he hoped

Marshal Kesselring had told Rommel with Herkules now postponed indefinently, additional air support could be made available at least temporarily to support his assault on Gazala and Tobruk. Kesselring believed his fighter aircraft would largely have air supremecy over Gazala itself and air superiority over Tobruk for the time being; Kesselring's staff was still working on other commands, and with the Luftwaffe and Heer personel offices to free up more troops and aircraft for the Panzer Army; but with the execution of Case Blue imminent, the cabinets had been emptied, hard; giving Rommel the personel of the 6th as replacements was already a controversial decision within high command; not all of whom where as optimistic as Kesselring; and the commander of OB Sud ran into a stone wall trying to free up anything from units which had finished their great counter attack at Kharkov

Rommel gave 21st most of the day off so their service crews could deal with some of their sickening backlog of work and the tank crews could make up for lack of sleep; Rommel himself and a couple of junior officers had gone down to the coast and put their feet in the water; from his time as younger man he knew such days like this were essential if he was going to keep pushing the men into hard combat on the end of a string; the 4 star general himself added 6 hours of sleep to his severely negative account
 
I would suggest the first time Rommel 'rolled a 6' was the capture of General O'Connor in April 1942. Overall though I would say looking at military history the improvement in British leadership actually reflects a pattern you can see going all the way back to Hannibal. A charismatic commander with lesser resources but more drive and energy inflicts defeats on a better resourced but poorly led opponent, but they lack the means to inflict a knockout blow. Eventually the better resourced enemy finds someone who can wield those superior resources at least competently and things go very badly for the charismatic commander. In the desert the harsh realities of logistics and supply lines meant Rommel never had the means to inflict the knockout blow and sooner or later the British were going to fix their command problem.
Rommel is a good general IMO, not a legendary captain of history like Alexander. But what Rommel has going for him is that the 8th Armies leadership at this point in history is REALLY bad, and he's reading their mail in an egregious fashion. It's like in a wargame when he turns the 'fog of war' off for himself and only himself. When Monty shows up he makes a huge difference----Like Grant he knows he's got a major material superiority and he knows how to use it. Without the ability to read the enemy's mail and against Monty, his leadership advantage is greatly reduced.
 
9.2

cardcarrier

Banned
Chapter 9.2

06-01-42 23:59 hrs British 8th army and Middle East HQ Cairo Egypt Reporting back to American President Roosevelt and Joint Chiefs of Staff; Colonel Bonner Fellers, American military attache to MEGHQ

Urgent 2nd update:

Staff briefings off schedule and disjointed due to chaotic situation at the front, will report 2-3 times as a day as necessary or ordered
GHQ staff officers atmosphere gravely impacted by Rommel reaching coast
Ritchie's staff re-evaluating operation freeborn due to axis tanks blocking roads and trails behind the Gazala boxes
GHQ staff officers privately advise they are increasing minimum fuel calculations for freeborn due to inability to use roads/trails
GHQ staff officers privately advise that Indian formations at Knightsbridge do not have enough fuel to conduct freeborn under revised guidelines
GHQ staff officers privately advise they do not have clear picture of how tightly surrounded troops at Knights Bridge
Desert Air force will have photo recon planes up at first light looking for axis columns advancing out of Sidi Muftah
Desert Air force will have photo recon planes up at first light to evaluate Tobruk position
Communications with Tobruk garrison heavily impacted
Communications with remaining infantry and armor along the coastal road heavily impacted
South African staff officers privately confide their position at Tobruk in grave peril
South African staff officers have heated arguments with General Smith and Auchinlek and demand freeborn be executed immediately
South African staff officers do not accept fuel guidelines as revised by Ritchie's staff for freeborn
South African staff officers demand some remaining Army fuel be internally redistributed to their 1st division for evacuation
South African staff officers vigorously oppose counter attack on Arcoma, and recommend army go around Axis concentrations and withdraw to the Egypt
Desert airforce staff officers emphatically endorse freeborn to be executed immediately, even if London further delays authorization
Desert airforce staff officers disclose in full briefing that they can no longer protect the troops west of Toburk
Royal Navy emphatically endorses freeborn and general evacuation of the army back to Egypt
Royal Navy staff officers decline any missions to succor the Tobruk garrison; citing previous rejection of holding or supplying the fortress
Royal Navy staff officers engage in heated argument with General Smith when they demand an estimated motoring time between Rommel and Alexandria in the event 8th army is lost in Libya
GHQ staff officers even privately will not provide estimates of Rommel possible motoring times to the delta in the event of catastrophic defeat; our staff will evaluate and prepare our own estimate
Royal Navy staff officers engage in heated argument with General Smith when they ask for reliable disclosure of how much fuel Rommel has taken from them
GHQ staff officers even privately will not provide estimates of how much fuel Rommel has; our staff will prepare our own estimate;
Royal Navy staff officers announce in briefing that if Rommel reaches Mersah Matruh; that this represents a red line for the fleet to be evacuated; as this would allow axis dive bombers to hit Alexandria with fighter escorts
General Smith and Royal Navy Staff officers engage in heated argument concerning possible evacuation of the fleet; General Smith asks what happens to my troops on Malta, Royal Navy officers reply, they starve, like your troops in Libya are forced to starve under your failed command; our staff is removed from the room; shouting can be heard throughout the command post
Atmosphere in Cairo being penetrated by rumors of heavy 8th army defeat
GHQ staff officers privately confide they have serious morale and desertion problem
A GHQ staff officer suggests planning for evacuation of command(s) to Khartom and Suez; he is removed from the command post
Royal Navy staff officers have vigorous argument with Auchinlek and GHQ staff about red lines for flooding Nile Delta and demolition of Alexandria dockyard
Royal Navy officers have vigorous argument with GHQ and South African staff officers about Tobruk harbor demolitions; both sides do not have clear picture as to what actual orders are to the garrison concerning the dockyards; our staff will try to have more private conversations with the South Africans to assess this
Desert air force staff officers advise they can more effectively defend the army once it withdraws; they advise their base structure in Egypt is in tact
Desert air force staff officers privately advise they are performing staff studies about evacuation of their commands if Rommel reaches the delta
Heated arguments occur between Desert air force staff officers and Royal Navy staff officers about ability to shield the fleet from air attack
A Royal Navy staff officer suggests a red line on the closure of the Suez Canal be considered if Rommel reaches the delta; he says escorted dive bomber attacks on the canal are grave risk to ships. This officer and his superior have closed door (assumed) heated exchange with General Auchinlek and Smith
General Ritchie announces all GHQ staff will be subject to interrogations, to rout out spy(s)
GHQ local security battalion commander requests authorization for martial law in Cairo in addition to curfew and blackout in the event of Rommel invading Egypt; vigorous argument throughout GHQ erupts; we are escorted outside
General Ritchie requests guns, searchlights, fighter squadrons and other equipment from the canal defense zone be brought up to the frontier to assist the 8th army; furious argument with Royal Navy and Desert air force staff officers erupts; we are escorted from the room
American attache team removed from GHQ command post no less than 6 separate times in last 18hours
GHQ local security commander recommends closing by force all Cairo bars and brothels to improve operational security; furious argument throughout GHQ erupts, we are escorted out of the room
GHQ local security commander recommends sweep of Cairo and Alexandria to look for deserters and black marketeers; argument ensues in front of our staff
Generals Auchinlek and Ritchie cable ask our staff how quickly USA ground troops and air squadrons can be deployed to Egypt
Generals Auchinlek and Ritchie ask how quickly can an advance USA corps or Army staff be deployed to Egypt
8th army estimates of their own remaining tanks and infantry vary wildly; General Ritchie's assessment is closest to our own, General Smith continues to believe Rommel much weaker than our staff considers him
8th army estimates of Rommel's remaining tanks and infantry vary wildly; we will prepare our own estimate
GHQ staff officers even privately will admit or estimate how many tanks they have under repair or running on any of the fronts facing Rommel. Our staff, will try to conduct an interview with reassembling armor commanders on the frontier and try to get a better picture of this
Our staff HIGHLY recommends if USA forces introduced to Egypt, that they have separate army and supply commands
Royal Navy staff officers ask about alteration of lend lease delivery points in the event of Rommel reaching the delta; furious argument occurs in front of our staff; we recommend Naval Attache staff perform study of relocating material delivery to Sudan or Basra
Richtie and Auchinlek ask London to request urgent tank and aircraft deliveries from USA to replace losses
Our staff, despite lack of formal briefings on remaining troop strength, advises that provision of replacement equipment by USA is critical to GHQ survival
Our staff is now of the opinion that if the Tobruk garrison and port are taken that the risk to remaining troops at Gazala and Knightbridge is grave
Our staff is revaluating odds of troops being able to evacuate in operation freeborn
Our staff for tonight regards the destruction of all remaining British forces in Libya regardless of authorization for freeborn as 1/2 please note that this item is only inclusive of forces at Knights bridge and points to it's north; we believe forces scattered in the south over the last several days should be able to withdraw back to Egypt for refit

Will provide personal observations in final transmission later today; situation is evolving rapidly

End transmission
 

CalBear

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As I recall the earlier updates, the captured British guns (whatever caliber) were placed in defence near the captured depots. Not sure they will reach Tobruk ITTL? Guess it depends how fast things unfold.
The guns mentioned here for counterbattery fire, will they be able to fall back to Kursk ITTL?
Kursk?
 
General Ritchie announces all GHQ staff will be subject to interrogations, to rout out spy(s)
Seriously?
Generals Auchinlek and Ritchie cable ask our staff how quickly USA ground troops and air squadrons can be deployed to Egypt
Generals Auchinlek and Ritchie ask how quickly can an advance USA corps or Army staff be deployed to Egypt
Ditto - the focus should be on redeploying British units elsewhere in the Middle East.
8th army estimates of their own remaining tanks and infantry vary wildly; General Ritchie's assessment is closest to our own,
The point of having a staff is that information is co-ordinated, especially critical stuff, so that everybody is working off the same estimates, at least for your own strength.

Our staff for tonight regards the destruction of all remaining British forces in Libya regardless of authorization for freeborn as 1/2 please note that this item is only inclusive of forces at Knights bridge and points to it's north;
Unsurprising, given the thread's title.
 
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the dust trucks through the swept paths around Sidi Muftah, which as Seebohme expected drew great amounts of artillery fire onto largely empty desert; already isolated the first day of the offensive; the 150th had consumed much of it's remaining stores the previous day in the attempt to link up with relief attacks from Knightsbridge

The emplacement of Ariete and corps artillery assets on Aalagh ridge, had caught these forces by surprise, which lead to the attacks being defeated; and both the Indians and the British suffering considerable casualties; assaults on dug in Italian anti tank guns and machine guns where costly failures; especially in the eastern section of the box where they went into the fresh Trieste division

As much as General Haydon's ammunition was in it's final reserves; it was also the burden of the wounded, and the heavy air attacks on the box that lead him to send a white flag party through the lines to seek terms with his Italian counterparts; the failure of the relief attacks lead to subordinate commanders recommending the unit not continue to suffer; as a second attempt could see the whole sale slaughter of the brigade.
More thumbs:
The British use up their artillery ammunition supplies on empty desert.
Directly attacking emplacements of Italian infantry - as noted previously the Italian perimeter would be very thinly spread, British patrols would establish where they would be concentrated, and any movement outside the box would be designed to avoid them.
Surrendering when not under direct attack vs The encircled enemy, supported by numerous infantry tanks, again resisted most stubbornly

This of course avoids the German armour having to actually attack the box.
 
I think we all agree that DAK used captured Panzers and that the most common approach if these had been damaged would be to work them up in a lull in the fighting.
That is not the case here. They are not damaged and there is no lull in the fighting.
I find it perfectly plausible that DAK would spend a minimum of time in making them join the fighting but how much is that. To form a coherent unit fitting into German combined arms tactics, probably weeks. To be used as self propelled AT guns probably really minimal. To defend the depot where they have been taken in that role? Well that actually blend in with the ideal scenario.
Let’s ask @cardcarrier how they are deployed?
One big issue would be their radios, and getting tied into their own communications network.
 

Garrison

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Rommel is a good general IMO, not a legendary captain of history like Alexander. But what Rommel has going for him is that the 8th Armies leadership at this point in history is REALLY bad, and he's reading their mail in an egregious fashion. It's like in a wargame when he turns the 'fog of war' off for himself and only himself. When Monty shows up he makes a huge difference----Like Grant he knows he's got a major material superiority and he knows how to use it. Without the ability to read the enemy's mail and against Monty, his leadership advantage is greatly reduced.
Well my point was that such advantages of leadership don't last, especially in an era of radio and aircraft where replacing a failing officer is relatively straightforward. Only the rapid sweep across France prevented them having a clear out and finding better commanders. The reality is that without straining the limits of credulity there is no way Rommel is going to win in the dessert before the British find some competent leadership.
 
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