The first one, they began life as a Jeffersonian vehicle.
Separated at Birth: America and Drakia
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MaxGerke01
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Ok I did think so .Now when it comes to the Whigs and Nationalists they are kind of a combination of OTL Democrats and Republicans with the Whigs favoring Fascism-ie multiracial/monocultural and the Nationalists are-not sure which ism but are multiracial/multicultural ?
Originally the (Fascist) Whigs favored race-blind monoculturalism and the Nationals multicultural racism, but that was before the Nationalist shatter and the Whigs started to become more multicultural. As for official ideology the Nationalists were Geoist as opposed to Fascist. In a scenario where the party split is permanent I could see the different fragments (Geoist/Christian Populist/Isolationist) swallowed up by more successful, or at least less dysfunctional, parties.
In my hypothetical Whig-Republican duopoly I could see the Geoists either going to the Republicans or performing a hostile takeover of the Homeland Party to get an ideologically pure vehicle, the Christian Populists perhaps joining the Socialists as a farmer-labor coalition or forming a new minor party with all the new religious movements that took off during the Mad Years. The Isolationists are likely out in the cold given the current global tensions, while the portion of the party that considered "let's be racist" their secret raison d'etre have probably gone over to whatever crypto-Societists are skulking about.
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Y'know there have been comparisons to the bleakness of the mod The New Order: The Last Days Of Europe, but considering the pact's position and the AfD's rolls, this really COULD be the last days of a mainland Europe that's not an oppressed mass of death and rubble.
MaxGerke01
Banned
So the isms are something else Im not totally clear on. I know that Societism is what we would call Fascism OTL. So is Geoism the equivalent of socialism/communism? There is also Rodinsim along those lines right?Also there is actually Socialism ittl. but where is it on the sprectrum ? And where does Situationism fit in on the spectrum ?
You know, a Separated at Birth mod for HOI4 akin to TNO presumably set sometime during the Silent War would be really cool.
Geoism fills the geopolitical niche Socialism did in OTL (with Rodinism a more extreme version a la Communism), but is actually agrarian populist rather than urban in character, and obviously it lost badly in the 20th century. Socialism remains an only modestly popular fringe position, Societism is vaguely OTL Fascist, Situationism basically being its antithesis. The right-left spectrum would probably go (in order) Societist, Geoist, Rex, Fascist, Socialist, Situationist but they probably don't use that axis in this timeline so that order is a little rough except for the extremes. I proposed a system based on the hierarchy of needs but politics have diverged wildly in 200 years, so it's a little hard to put them all in tidy boxes.
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Rexism could also be considered pseudo-fascist as well, IMHO.
In the Italian sense, and using OTL sensibilities. Rex is an evolution of nationalist conservatism while Societism is explicitly transformational and totalitarian.
Kinda? That's why it's fuzzy. The further right you get in the list A) the weirder the state religion gets and B) the more oppressive you get to minorities
Basically, they're apeshit tribalistic of their turfs:
Situationists rail against all forms of SPECTACLE and conformity, including the Fascist kind.
Rexism formed as a reaction against the degeneration of traditional values, directing most of its ire against radical Geoists in Spain and Russia.
Socialist resembles its OTL namesake the most.
Geoists though are incredibly jealous of anything urban, further making the Socialists irrelevant in politics.
All of those ideologies formed due to the civic and nativist nationalism that Fascism made especially in constructing a framework for an "end of history" in the 30's.
Societists though? They've sided with the degenerate Geoists and espouse heretical and Un-christian values. Those, especially the former, are the things that made even the most virulent of Rexists hate the ideology. @Born in the USSA 's description is somewhat apt here; only that instead of OTL Fascism railing against both capitalism and communism, here it was directed purely against TTL Fascism.
So no, there's five distinct and mutually irreconcilable ideologies here as of late: Rexism, Societism, Situationism, Fascism, and Geoism, each having their own goals that had been ideologically exclusive of each other. For Rexism, the supremacy of Tradition; for Societism, the supremacy of the custodian race; Situationism, fun; Fascism, democracy and nation; and for the Geoists, effective land use and resource exploitation.
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I for one welcome are Irish-Scandinavian-Lithuanian overlords.
Yeah the fact that each ideology has different goals and a different lens for international relations and social conflict is part of what explains how hard it is to put them into a neat OTL line, but broadly speaking Societism and Rex Thought are two radically different outcomes of the strains of conservatism TTL, with Fascism and Socialism born out of a desire for progressive reform, Geoism being pretty revolutionary but populist and Situationism arising out of a desire to reject all of the others in pursuit of true freedom.
Ironically enough they're probably reaching the 150 million finish line with "loaners" of the most difficult and irascible Bonded Labor and other Pact of Blood slaves. Those bits of Hungary and Poland and all of Rumania taken at the end of the Great Patriotic War would have been part of unreconstructed modern nation-states cowed by direct military occupation, but not utterly unmade. Rumania and Hungary especially I think would have been... annoying for their Drakian and Rhomanian overseers, thanks to being in the interior of the direct garrisons eyeing Pan-Europe and guarding the border and the wonderful ability of the dark Transylvanian forests to hide sniper's boltholes like nobody's business. With that in mind, and the greater ability to present them as non-Slavic inhuman others to the Societist Russians, I think a lot of Transylvania Rumanians, Szekelys, Magyars, etc... were shipped out to Siberia as some of the "economic aid" provided to supine Russia.
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It's the Hegelian Dialectic, Rexism formed as an antithesis to Geoism, Situationism formed as an antithesis to Societism. Same as how the Soviet Union (Communism) was an antithesis to the United States (Capitalism) or how the new generation of left-wingers and right-wingers arose in opposition to the Neoliberal status quo.
Don't forget Fascism too. The two themselves are not necessarily belligerent to each other, but it wouldn't have taken a revolution if it had just been easier to reconcile Situationism's hedonism and Fascism's conformist deontology, well at least in China. Situationism here was literally born in an avant-garde convention in San Francisco!
Also, Chinese Situationism has to placate the Socialists within the country, and that meant flirting with some state control of the economy for some time.
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