Why the Chinese play cricket (The Pax Imperialis)

I'd very much appreciate comments on the 1905-00 period. I'm particularly concerned about the Balkans War, though also the Ottomans and China. But less about those.

I think Yuan Shikai declaring himself Emperor would go the same way as otl, even if it isnt after hes already help found a republic: not good at all, plus way too early. In otl it was to shore up his position and depose opposition...here...kinda out the blue.

Also with the Turkish civil war...i cant imagine Germany letting them fall that quickly without supporting them, especially after just getting their influence in the country. I could see them, and via the triple alliance, trying to slow the civil war or at least supporting the sultanate in some form, especially to stop the minor states spread in the Balkans (something A.H would defiantly be freaked out by)
 
I think Yuan Shikai declaring himself Emperor would go the same way as otl, even if it isnt after hes already help found a republic: not good at all, plus way too early. In otl it was to shore up his position and depose opposition...here...kinda out the blue.

Also with the Turkish civil war...i cant imagine Germany letting them fall that quickly without supporting them, especially after just getting their influence in the country. I could see them, and via the triple alliance, trying to slow the civil war or at least supporting the sultanate in some form, especially to stop the minor states spread in the Balkans (something A.H would defiantly be freaked out by)

Thank, this I really appreciate. How does Yuan Shikai putting Puyi on the throne. He still has the support of the Bejing Army at this point, so his position is I think reasonably solid.

Yes I was really concerned about the Balkans. It was a good sketch I think, but yes needs work.
 
Thank, this I really appreciate. How does Yuan Shikai putting Puyi on the throne. He still has the support of the Bejing Army at this point, so his position is I think reasonably solid.

Yes I was really concerned about the Balkans. It was a good sketch I think, but yes needs work.

I also dont see Yuan setting Puyi on the throne....especially as Emperor Guangxu (not Zaitan...China has a weird dynastic naming tradition) is still alive and fighting him. Though he could do it i guess if hes trying to be the power behind the throne like Cixi was, but a) he wasn't really that kind of guy to take the back seat when he could run from the front and b) again, there'd still be a massive deficit in support. One of the reasons Yuan and the revolution was as successful in otl was because he was deposing a "foreign" Manchu ruler from the oppressed "native" Han citizenry and c) Puyi is Guangxu's heir which could provide legitimacy to Yuan's revolt, but would simply push the problems down the road a few more decades, til something else kicks off.

Tbh i think if your gonna keep a empire around, but not under the qing, that Yuan could support, rather than going republican, would be to find some kinda Han constitutional dynasty, that would be selected by some kind of quorum of Yuan and his supporters, or some kind of parliamentary vote in (maybe even still letting Yuan be Emperor, but more elected and via popular opinion). That way it would diminish support for Guangxu's Qing dynasty, but still keeping the appearance in the modernization and reform people wanted, and may bring a lot of supporters from the Qing side to Yuan's side.

At least that's one way to go for a monarchy in China at the time.
 
Also with the Turkish civil war...i cant imagine Germany letting them fall that quickly without supporting them, especially after just getting their influence in the country. I could see them, and via the triple alliance, trying to slow the civil war or at least supporting the sultanate in some form, especially to stop the minor states spread in the Balkans (something A.H would defiantly be freaked out by)
Not really, no.

Probably argued getting into a civil war is a bad idea, especially since they also have to contend with Russia and France. If they take a interest, well....
 
I also dont see Yuan setting Puyi on the throne....especially as Emperor Guangxu (not Zaitan...China has a weird dynastic naming tradition) is still alive and fighting him. Though he could do it i guess if hes trying to be the power behind the throne like Cixi was, but a) he wasn't really that kind of guy to take the back seat when he could run from the front and b) again, there'd still be a massive deficit in support. One of the reasons Yuan and the revolution was as successful in otl was because he was deposing a "foreign" Manchu ruler from the oppressed "native" Han citizenry and c) Puyi is Guangxu's heir which could provide legitimacy to Yuan's revolt, but would simply push the problems down the road a few more decades, til something else kicks off.

Tbh i think if your gonna keep a empire around, but not under the qing, that Yuan could support, rather than going republican, would be to find some kinda Han constitutional dynasty, that would be selected by some kind of quorum of Yuan and his supporters, or some kind of parliamentary vote in (maybe even still letting Yuan be Emperor, but more elected and via popular opinion). That way it would diminish support for Guangxu's Qing dynasty, but still keeping the appearance in the modernization and reform people wanted, and may bring a lot of supporters from the Qing side to Yuan's side.

At least that's one way to go for a monarchy in China at the time.

More I look at it, more I have to agree with you. Both sides will have to very likely dump the Qing. Yuan probably can't do it while Cixi around, so Puyi will probably get a very brief stint on the throne. I think it more likely Yuan would go down the republican route, though he may stick a Han on the throne as a sop to the conservatives. Whether or not he makes a run at emperor later I'll think on.

Chen on the other hand has a problem. I think a lot of his legitimacy comes from having an emperor. I see it far more likely he'll keep an emperor, though he may go for a han. Marquis Zhu or Duke Yansheng both seem good candidates for replacing the Qing either way.

I'll work on the Ottomans and Balkans after sorting the Chinese
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Campbell-Bannerman resigns due to his failing health and is succeeded by Herbert Asquith. Asquith continues Campbell-Bannerman's reforms, albeit a reduced pace. By now the political climate in the UK is becoming increasingly favourable to social reform and economic intervention
Why should Asquith matter when a long Chamberlain leadership should have empowered his fellow radicals like Lloyd George rather than moderates like Asquith?
 
Some minor alterations to explain the events of 1905-09


July 1895: In an attempt to modernise their army after the Sino-Japanese War, the Chinese form the New Armies equipped with modern weapons.

September 1898: Chinese conservatives lead by the Dowager Empress Cixi stage a coup bringing an end to Emperor Guangxu's reforms and placing him under house arrest. Support from Yuan Shikai, commander of the Beijing Army, is vital to the success of the coup.

March 1900: Despite orders from the Dowager Empress, Yuan Shikai and the order commanders of the New Armies refuse to support the Boxer Rebellion. They instead act to suppress the Rebellion.

September 1901: The protocol imposed in the wake of the Boxer Rebellion creates a substantial reparations. Emperor Guangxu is restored to power in an attempt to create a regime with increased great power influence on Chinese affairs. The Emperor however will prove adept at playing the powers off against each other to limit this influence. Yuan Shikai is removed from command of the Beijing Army for his role in the 1898 coup against Guangxu.

February 1902: Capitalising on unrest caused by the Ottoman defeat in the Anglo-Ottoman War, the reformist Young Turk movement launches a coup and gains control of the Empire. Sultan Abhulhamid II is reduced to a constitutional monarch.
 
hmm yes tea and biscuits and all that
Lord Rumpledumple, would you pass the cricket bat?
Certainly, old boy

With China's total defeat in the Sino-Japanese War, the Emperor Guangxu begins a program of radical reform.
Chinese conservatives lead by the Dowager Empress Cixi stage a coup bringing an end to Emperor Guangxu's reforms and placing him under house arrest. Support from Yuan Shikai, commander of the Beijing Army, is vital to the success of the coup.
Hoo boy here we go again
Emperor Guangxu is restored to power in an attempt to create a regime with increased great power influence on Chinese affairs. The Emperor however will prove adept at playing the powers off against each other to limit this influence. Yuan Shikai is removed from command of the Beijing Army for his role in the 1898 coup against Guangxu.
woo hoo!

The Dowager Empress Cixi is finally released. She is banished to Liaoyang by the provisional government.
AND STAY AWAY
Cen Chunxuan become Prime Minister in China's first democratic elections. With Emperor Guangxu's informal support in limiting European influence, he embarks on a program to transform China into modern state on a par with the great powers.
The Central Military Academy is established in Beijing to train officers for the Chinese army. British army officer General Edward Clive is its first commandant, beginning an ongoing British influence on the Chinese military.
Im liking this...
No kidding, China actually modernizing? Japan's going to strike ASAP.
oh noes. pls no
The US agrees to dedicate its portion of the Boxer indemnity to improving education in China.
Nice, looks like-

A conservative group headed General Yuan Shikai, commander of Beijing Army and Dowager Empress Cixi, stage a coup against Cen Chunxuan's government. Unable to counter the strength of the Beijing Army, Cen Chunxuan and his got flee to Nanjing with the Emperor. There they gain the support of General Li Yuanhong's Jiangsu Army.
The dowager Empress Cixi is assassinated. Yuan Shikai purges Qing influence in his regime and proclaims himself emperor founding the Yao dynasty. His break from the Manchu Qing dynasty greatly increases his support in China.
Yuan Shikai's Yao forces defeat Qing government forces under Li Yuanhong's in the Battle of Nanjing. Cen Chunxuan's government retreats to Changsha.
fffffffuuuuUUUUUUUUUU

December 1907: Chen Chunxuan is defeated in the scheduled elections. Sun Yat-Sen becomes Prime Minister of Qing China.

January 1908: The Qing government enlists British support in reforming their army. Large amounts of military equipment including surplus Lee Enfield long rifles are supplied to reequip their army.
Come on lads!

The reequipped and retrained Qing armies under Cai E defeat Yao forces under Li Yuanhong in the fiercely fought Battle of Yuzhong, securing their control over Southern China.
Protect and Survive: Qing China
 
1905-09
1905-1909: The genesis of federation

January 1905: Port Arthur falls to the Japanese.

March 1905: The US agrees to dedicate its portion of the Boxer indemnity to improving education in China.

April 1905: German chief of staff, Alfred von Schlieffen, develops a plan for war in Europe. The plan calls for adopting a defensive posture against Russia while launching an enveloping attack on France through Belgium and the Netherlands.

April 1905: The new liberal Ottoman government signs an agreement with Germany to provide assistance in developing the Empire.

May 1905: The Russian Baltic Fleet is destroyed by the Japanese at the Battle of Tsushima. This defeat, and the Japanese occupation of Sakhalin Island, results in the Russians suing for peace.

June 1905: The vote is extended to non whites in the Cape Colony and Natal.

July 1905: The New Zealand test team tours Canada, marking the arrival of Canada on the test circuit.

August 1905: Haldane's reforms create a Territorial Army of 21 divisions for home defence and Regular Expeditionary Force of nine divisions for service overseas.

August 1905: Conservatives headed General Yuan Shikai, commander of Beijing Army and Dowager Empress Cixi, stage a coup against Cen Chunxuan's government. Unable to counter the strength of the Beijing Army, Cen Chunxuan and his government flee to Nanjing with the Emperor. There they gain the support of General Li Yuanhong's Jiangsu Army. The new Beijing regime declares the Emperor Guangxu deposed and places the infant Pugong on the throne.

August 1905: The Treaty of Portsmouth ends the Russo-Japanese War, ceding the entirety of Sakhalin Island (as Karafuto) and the Kuriles to Japan in return for the Japanese dropping claims for reparations. As a result of the war Russian influence in China is removed.

October 1905: In the response to widespread unrest, Tsar Nicholas II of Russia proclaims limited democratic reforms and the country's first constitution. The constitution provides for a legislative Duma.

November 1905: Korea becomes a Japanese protectorate.

November 1905: The Central Military Academy is reestablished in Guangdong.

December 1905: A coup by conservatives in the Ottoman Empire succeeds in Constantinople, restoring Sultan Abhulhamid II to effective power. However the liberal government is able to muster significant support and retreats to Symra beginning the Ottoman Civil War.

January 1906: The Indian test team tours New Zealand. The Indian side includes several Indian players causing a controversy over the appropriateness of this.

February 1906: Chamberlain wins the scheduled election but suffers a stroke in September and is replaced by Cambell-Bannerman, who rebuffs calls for new elections.

March 1906: Germany places its support behind Sultan Abdulhamid, sending advisors and supplies.

March 1906: The British army adopts the Madsen LMG to replace the Maxim MG with cavalry battalions, issuing two Madsens per squadron to each battalion.

April 1906: As part of the development of the Royal Navy's amphibious warfare capacity, the liners Campania and Lucania are purchased for conversion into specialist assault troopships.

April 1906: Tsar Nicholas, retaining the support of the army, cracks down on liberal elements. The Duma is reduced to a consultative body.

June 1906: Learning from the lessons of the Russo-Japanese War, Austria-Hungary and Germany begin development of super heavy artillery designed for destroying modern fortifications.

July 1906: The Cape Town Imperial Conference Agrees to expand the National Development Board to cover the entire Empire, creating a second Dominion cabinet post. The Australian, Joseph Cook is appointed to the post.

August 1906: Intending to take advantage of the Ottomans Civil War to expel the Ottomans from the Balkans, Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia form the Balkan league with Russian backing. This sparks an international crisis as Austria-Hungary, supported by German acts to prevent this.

December 1906: The first all big gun battleship, HMS Dreadnought, is commissioned in the RN. This sparks a world wide naval arms race.

January 1907: The Russians back down in the Balkans due to their weakness after the Russio-Japanese War. The resulting humiliation and defeat by the Japanese causes the Russians to begin significant reforms to their army.

15th February 1907: In response to continued agitation for Irish home rule Campbell-Bannerman introduces the Devolution of Government bill. This would creates five regional assemblies (England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and a reduced six county Ulster) with significant, but below that the Dominions, competence for home rule. Many nationalists reject this, calling for the full competence granted to the Dominions, the more radical republicans still calling for complete independence. The bill narrowly passes the Commons but is sent back by the Lords. The bill will not finally become law until 1910. Both Austin and Neville Chamberlain oppose the bill and defect to the Unionists.

March 1907: Yuan Shikai's forces defeat Cen Chunxuan's forces under Li Yuanhong's in the Battle of Nanjing. Cen Chunxuan's government retreats to Changsha.

March 1907: With it's navy having fallen seriously behind the Argentinians and Chileans and it's economy booming due to the demand for rubber, the Brazilians order two dreadnoughts from British yards. Both Argentina and Chile immediately repudiate the Santiago Protocols and begin planning a new naval building program.

March 1907: With the Russian weakness exposed by the Russio-Japanese War, German chief of staff Helmuth von Molkte (the younger) modifies the Schlieffen plan reducing the forces in the east and restricting the enveloping attack on France to Belgium alone.

March 1907: The SMLE Mk III, optimised for a new high velocity spitzer bullet is introduced.

April 1907: With German support, the conservatives emerge victorious in the Ottoman Civil War. Sultan Abdulhamid resumes his absolute rule.

June 1907: Five armoured cars based on the Rolls Royce Silver Ghost chassis are ordered to replace the unarmoured 30hp cars in the Motor Corp.

August 1907: The British enter into a similar arrangement to the Entente Cordiale with Russia. This forms the Triple Entente as a very loose alliance to counter the Triple Alliance of Germany, Austria-Hungary and Italy.

September 1907: Li Yuanhong defects to the the Beijing government. Cen Chunxuan's government retreats to Guangdong where he gains the support of Chen Jiongming, commander of the Guangdong Army.

November 1907: The former Boer Republics are granted self government. The immediately set about instituting racist policies excluding non whites from power.

January 1908: The Guangdong government enlists British support in reforming their army. Large amounts of military equipment including surplus Lee Enfield long rifles are supplied to reequip their army.

May 1908: A second squadron is formed in the Motor Corp.

April 1908: Campbell-Bannerman resigns due to his failing health and is succeeded by David Lloyd George. Lloyd George continues Campbell-Bannerman's reforms. By now the political climate in the UK is becoming increasingly favourable to social reform and economic intervention.

June 1908: HMS Invincible, the world's first battlecruiser is commissioned.

October 1908: Backlash against the pro US policies of Laurier's Liberals in the wake of the Alaska border settlement allows Robert Borden's conservatives to win the Canadian federal elections. Borden resumes a pro Imperial policy.

November 1908: The dowager Empress Cixi dies. Yuan Shikai purges Qing elements from his regime. The infant Pugong is deposed and replaced by the Marquis Zhu as purely ceremonial emperor, creating the Yao dynasty. This break from the Manchu Qing dynasty greatly increases his support in China.

February 1909: The reequipped and retrained Qing armies under Chen Jiongming defeat Yao forces under Li Yuanhong in the fiercely fought Battle of Yuzhong, retaking Hunan province and securing their control over Southern China.

March 1909: The Industrial Development Act brings incentives to electrify industry and adopt modern mass production techniques.

March 1909: The French adopt war plan XVI. The plan anticipates a German enveloping attack through Belgium.

March 1909: New Zealand offers to fund the construction of a new Indefatigable class battlecruiser for the RN.

June 1909: The Imperial Cricket Conference is formed to promote the sport throughout the Empire. The Conference regularises test schedules rather than the previous ad hoc system. Responsibilities for the rules of the game however remains with the MCC.

October 1909: The Cape to Cairo railway is finally completed with the commissioning of five rail ferries on Lake Tanganyika. The railway greatly improves communications in British Africa, acting as a spur to further development.

December 1909: Australia orders a battlecruiser of the Indefatigable class as the flagship for the Royal Australian Navy. Three light cruisers and six destroyers are also ordered, one cruiser to be built in Australia. As with the Canadians, two obsolete cruisers are supplied for training.
 
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August 1893: Admiral Tyron, is appointed First Sea Lord. He institutes a program of training reform, designed to encourage initiative in officers.
This is a huge game changer - presumably Tryon will wish to promulgate the TA system throughout the RN, which will totally change command philosophy within the organisation.

If anyone here hasn't read Andrew Gordon's The Rules of the Game, I recommend it unreservedly. Brilliant on RN ethos, doctrines, and controversies.

Of course, IOTL Tryon was already dead by August.
 
This is a huge game changer - presumably Tryon will wish to promulgate the TA system throughout the RN, which will totally change command philosophy within the organisation.

If anyone here hasn't read Andrew Gordon's The Rules of the Game, I recommend it unreservedly. Brilliant on RN ethos, doctrines, and controversies.

Of course, IOTL Tryon was already dead by August.

Oh yeah it very much is a game changer. The Royal Navy in the Great War ITTL will be very different.

And when Tyron gets rammed in the OTL he's busy supporting Kitchener in Egypt ITTL.
 
March 1906: The British army adopts the Madsen light machine gun to replace the Maxim with cavalry regiments, issuing two Madsens per squadron to each regiment.
In the British Army Cavalry has Regiments which is made up of Squadrons, which are made up of Troops, which are made up of Sections.
Otherwise loving your time line, and can't wait for more.
 
This is a huge game changer - presumably Tryon will wish to promulgate the TA system throughout the RN, which will totally change command philosophy within the organisation.

If anyone here hasn't read Andrew Gordon's The Rules of the Game, I recommend it unreservedly. Brilliant on RN ethos, doctrines, and controversies.

Of course, IOTL Tryon was already dead by August.

To clarify

August 1893: Admiral Tyron, is appointed First Sea Lord. He institutes a program of training reform, designed to encourage initiative in officers. He institutes his TA signalling system greatly increasing initiative and flexibility in the Royal Navy.

I've also removed the improvements to RN shell ordering. Too much of an RN wank.
 
March 1906: The British army adopts the Madsen light machine gun to replace the Maxim with cavalry regiments, issuing two Madsens per squadron to each regiment.
In the British Army Cavalry has Regiments which is made up of Squadrons, which are made up of Troops, which are made up of Sections.
Otherwise loving your time line, and can't wait for more.

One of the cosmetic "we're not in Kansas anymore" changes I've made is the previous 31 cavalry regiments were joined into 17 dual battalion county regiments at the same time as the infantry was
 
One of the cosmetic "we're not in Kansas anymore" changes I've made is the previous 31 cavalry regiments were joined into 17 dual battalion county regiments at the same time as the infantry was
Well it certainly worked on me, it's a small thing but it turned things up side down for me. It just looks totally wrong to me, I understand what you have done now. :)
This time line is cool, but I'm sure I'm missing a lot of details because I just don't know what happened IOTL well enough. But what I do get is brilliant.
 
Well it certainly worked on me, it's a small thing but it turned things up side down for me. It just looks totally wrong to me, I understand what you have done now. :)
This time line is cool, but I'm sure I'm missing a lot of details because I just don't know what happened IOTL well enough. But what I do get is brilliant.

The really noticeable changes beyond the British Empire are starting to kick in now. I'm expecting the Great War to start around a year earlier and it to be virtually unrecognisable. The alliances will be similar with the Great Powers and it'll start in the Balkans, but enough has already changed to send it down a very different path.
 
Well it certainly worked on me, it's a small thing but it turned things up side down for me. It just looks totally wrong to me, I understand what you have done now. :)
This time line is cool, but I'm sure I'm missing a lot of details because I just don't know what happened IOTL well enough. But what I do get is brilliant.

Three of the regiments weren't amalgamated but had a second battalion raised. The RHG, 1DG and 1D. I haven't actually mentioned this, I probably should.
 
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