Well other than sorting out the CW command billets (which can be easily edited), seems the revision of the Canadian Campaign is sorted. I'll start moving on in the morning
Why the Chinese play cricket (The Pax Imperialis)
- Thread starter Miss Construction
- Start date
One aspect of Cunningham becoming First Sea Lord is that he responded to any daft Churchillian ideas with such a response that would make even WSC wilt
When it was suggested that he become First Sea Lord Churchill demurred (he could not have '2' chief prodders at the top after all) and suggested someone else but that individual refused basically the entire Navy wanted ABC in charge and Winston ever the navy man relented.
Ike considered him his greatest 'subordinate' and I do recall Alanbrookes biography noting the massive change in energy compared to Pound (he was very critical of Pound - who would fall asleep in important meetings - adding subsequant notes that at the time no one was aware of his illness) after ABC got the job.
I cannot think of a single senior officer who was a better choice for the top Navy job.
When it was suggested that he become First Sea Lord Churchill demurred (he could not have '2' chief prodders at the top after all) and suggested someone else but that individual refused basically the entire Navy wanted ABC in charge and Winston ever the navy man relented.
Ike considered him his greatest 'subordinate' and I do recall Alanbrookes biography noting the massive change in energy compared to Pound (he was very critical of Pound - who would fall asleep in important meetings - adding subsequant notes that at the time no one was aware of his illness) after ABC got the job.
I cannot think of a single senior officer who was a better choice for the top Navy job.
I'm trying not to cherry pick and look at relative seniority. Also important to remember this is not 1SL, but supreme allied commander
Derek Pullem
Donor
The problem with seniority is that TTL is much more naval focused than OTL so obvious choices like Alan Brooke become problematic. I still think Alan Brooke is a better call than Cunningham - Cunningham was too much the sailor and not enough the overall supreme commander.
Derek Pullem
Donor
Mountbatten - no. He was over promoted for the SACSEA role which was really a quite minor front in the war IOTL.
Keyes had even less competency.
Both were favourites of Churchill and advanced accordingly - may not be the case ITTL
What about Bruce Fraser?
Keyes had even less competency.
Both were favourites of Churchill and advanced accordingly - may not be the case ITTL
What about Bruce Fraser?
This is how I'm going at the moment
September 1941: A conference of the CW and its allies is held in Lisbon to formalise the alliance. The conference creates a joint command structure under the overall command of CW Admiral Bruce Fraser with Gaige General Xue Yue as his Chief of Staff. Naval matters are handled by CW Admiral Percy Noble with Chilean Admiral Julio Pinto as his deputy. Ground operations fall under Field Marshall Alan Brooke with Netherlands General Henri Winkelman as his deputy. The alliance becomes generally known as the Lisbon Conference.
September 1941: A conference of the CW and its allies is held in Lisbon to formalise the alliance. The conference creates a joint command structure under the overall command of CW Admiral Bruce Fraser with Gaige General Xue Yue as his Chief of Staff. Naval matters are handled by CW Admiral Percy Noble with Chilean Admiral Julio Pinto as his deputy. Ground operations fall under Field Marshall Alan Brooke with Netherlands General Henri Winkelman as his deputy. The alliance becomes generally known as the Lisbon Conference.
Mountbatten was decended from greatness - Prince Louis Of Battenburg (who was German*) who was First Sea Lord OTL in 1914 - in fact his son Mountbatten is probably not Mountbatten in this TL as historically the family changed its name during WW2 to appear less German like and he gave up all of his German Titles at the bequest of King George in 1917 (he is also Prince Phillips Grandfather)
So ITTL Mountbatten ( his son) is likely to be a Prince Battenburg - his advantage in a senior position is that he would very likely know everyone including the King as well as Royalty and senior figures around the world
But probably still too junior in 1940/41
*He was actually 100% Royal Navy - gawd love the nice gentleman
So ITTL Mountbatten ( his son) is likely to be a Prince Battenburg - his advantage in a senior position is that he would very likely know everyone including the King as well as Royalty and senior figures around the world
But probably still too junior in 1940/41
*He was actually 100% Royal Navy - gawd love the nice gentleman
Canada is one spot where the CW is at a long-term disadvantage, since it shares a land border with the US, a country that has probably 8 or more times Canada's population. Unless the CW sends a lot of reinforcement there the US will swarm them.
Also, how are relations between Poland and Russia? Right now they're good since they have a common enemy, but I imagine that later on the Germans might get cranky about Poland holding Silesia and half of East Prussia including Koenigsberg.
Also, how are relations between Poland and Russia? Right now they're good since they have a common enemy, but I imagine that later on the Germans might get cranky about Poland holding Silesia and half of East Prussia including Koenigsberg.
ITTL the US population advantage is “only” 6:1 or thereabouts. Also Canada is growing more quickly so long term I think it will stabilize somewhere around 4.5:1 - 5:1. Still more than enough to win unsupported against Canada but the combined CW could easily station enough forces in Canada over the long term to make it so that it is not worth the blood and treasure (as this current war is showing in spades).
Regarding Germany and Poland I think it depends on how the current war goes. If large numbers of German and Polish soldiers fight side by side there is going to be a politically influential post war generation that sees each other of brothers and Just as importantly will teach their children the same. By the time a generation comes of age that doesn’t have that attachment it will have been 65-85 years since the transfer and hopefully anyone demanding return of “lost territories” would be a fringe movement.
Canada can't defend itself on it own that is very true. But it doesn't have to. You can be sure sufficient CW troops will be stationed in Canada to make it clear if the US tries again the CW will defend it again. And that long land border isn't as bad as it seems. Yes the CW can't in any meaningful sense defend the Canadian prairies, but the US can't in any meaningful sense conquer it, it's just to big. The areas the CW has to defend are the industrialised east and British Colombia. BC is a nightmare to invade as the US is now finding out. Eminently defensible terrain and a strong industrial base. Basically you have to starve it out. The east is small enough. Access limited by coke points and a river barrier on a par with the Rhine.
Germany and Poland are interesting. When the French invaded and could have overwhelmed them, the Poles sent troops they ill afford to their defence. There will be calls for the return of the lost territory but there's also a huge moral debt. It depends on how Poland treats its very substantial German minority.
1941d Transpacific East Indies Theatre
~October to December 1941 (Transpacific War, East Indies Theatre): A pregnant pause
October 1941: The Guillemot Mk III enters, giving the CW a fighter equal to A6M.
October 1941: CW Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain loses a vote of no confidence over the fall of the East Indies and Pacific. Jan Smuts is selected as the new Prime Minister, forming a grand coalition. The new coalition suspends elections for the duration of the war.
October 1941: The remaining Dutch troops in the East Indies are reorganised as two infantry divisions equipped and organised along CW lines.
October 1941: Under intense US pressure, France grant permission for Pacific Alliance troops and supplies to cross their territory in Indochina to continue the Alliance in Siam.
November 1941: Ongoing repairs to the East Indies oil facilities begin to become effective, easing the Pacific Alliance's fuel crisis in the East.
November 1941: With CW submarines taking an increasingly toll on shipping in the South China Sea, further destroyers are withdrawn from the Combined Fleet in effort to provide escorts the vital oil convoys. In addition new Alliance ASW tactics are beginning to have some effect on CW attacks.
November 1941: The CW begins work in secret on establishing a fleet base in the Andaman Islands as a fall back position for the Eastern Fleet if Singapore should fall.
November 1941: With the French granting permission for Pacific Alliance forces to transit Indochina, the CW declare Indochina a legitimate target for attack. Planning is begun for an invasion should it prove necessary and the CW begins supplying arms to Indochinese nationalist groups.
December 1941: Pacific Alliance forces cross from Siam cross into Burma in an attempt to draw off CW reserves before the invasion of Malaya. The CW garrison falls back to a defensive position along the Salween River. Pacific Alliance aircraft also begin attacking shipping bound for Singapore. In response the CW begins supplying Malaya through Sumatra.
December 1941: The Pacific Alliance begins the invasion of Malaya from Siam. They immediately encounter heavy resistance from CW troops in strong defensive positions.
December 1941: CW bombers from Malaya and Burma begin attacking targets in Siam.
October 1941: The Guillemot Mk III enters, giving the CW a fighter equal to A6M.
October 1941: CW Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain loses a vote of no confidence over the fall of the East Indies and Pacific. Jan Smuts is selected as the new Prime Minister, forming a grand coalition. The new coalition suspends elections for the duration of the war.
October 1941: The remaining Dutch troops in the East Indies are reorganised as two infantry divisions equipped and organised along CW lines.
October 1941: Under intense US pressure, France grant permission for Pacific Alliance troops and supplies to cross their territory in Indochina to continue the Alliance in Siam.
November 1941: Ongoing repairs to the East Indies oil facilities begin to become effective, easing the Pacific Alliance's fuel crisis in the East.
November 1941: With CW submarines taking an increasingly toll on shipping in the South China Sea, further destroyers are withdrawn from the Combined Fleet in effort to provide escorts the vital oil convoys. In addition new Alliance ASW tactics are beginning to have some effect on CW attacks.
November 1941: The CW begins work in secret on establishing a fleet base in the Andaman Islands as a fall back position for the Eastern Fleet if Singapore should fall.
November 1941: With the French granting permission for Pacific Alliance forces to transit Indochina, the CW declare Indochina a legitimate target for attack. Planning is begun for an invasion should it prove necessary and the CW begins supplying arms to Indochinese nationalist groups.
December 1941: Pacific Alliance forces cross from Siam cross into Burma in an attempt to draw off CW reserves before the invasion of Malaya. The CW garrison falls back to a defensive position along the Salween River. Pacific Alliance aircraft also begin attacking shipping bound for Singapore. In response the CW begins supplying Malaya through Sumatra.
December 1941: The Pacific Alliance begins the invasion of Malaya from Siam. They immediately encounter heavy resistance from CW troops in strong defensive positions.
December 1941: CW bombers from Malaya and Burma begin attacking targets in Siam.
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Hmm with Siam being an active belligerent and with significant PA forces present you likely gonna see a major effort devoted to improving Siamese Ports, Rails, and Roads which should have some interesting effects down the line
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You aren't the US isn't fighting on the end of a very long and rather suspect supply tether and Eastern Canada and Northern England are much much better-suited infrastructure and development wise for offensive operations. You may see sieges you likely won't see a Stalingrad equivalent as the ability for either side to trap and surround an entire field army with what is likely some absurd troop densities is suspect at best and requires some outright incompetence on both sides for it to develop.
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Siam is likely to have an interesting future. The infrastructure will need to be upgraded, though the CW fleet in Singapore currently renders their ports of limited value, hence the need to transit French Indochina, which in itself will have interesting fall out
Neither side is currently interested in the islands. However if the French start channelling intel it might change. And no you won't have Stalingrad battles. Just not that kind of war.