Brad douriff as one of the villains. He be a good Toad or if you use the Hellfire Club, then he be perfect as Mastermind.
"Where Are We Going This Time": The Golden Age of Science Fiction
- Thread starter Timelordtoe
- Start date
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
First of all, thank you. I like your suggestions, and will likely take them aboard. I'm not 100% sure on the story as of yet, and there can only be so many main charaters, but your suggestions are very good.
Another brilliant suggestion. I think I'll use him. The other suggestions have been good, but I think Sydow is the best fit.
Agreed, we shall see how that plays out. I like your suggestions. The Marvel of TTL is going to be big on diversity and inclusion, partially spurred on by how well it's worked for Doctor Who (even though the three leads are all white (for now)). I think I might give the fact that there's more diversity and inclusion ITTL its own update soon, as one of the big events for that was "Blood and Fire".
Agaim, some terrific suggestions. It's quickly becoming apparent to me that not all of the characters I now have people in mind for will fit into one film. While X-Men will be more of an ensemble film than Batman, Marvel (and I) will know better than to overload the audience with too many new characters. What may need to happen is the demotion of some characters to much smaller roles that get larger as time goes by, not dissimilar to what happened with the Singer films of OTL.
While I'm unlikely to use Mr Sinister as the main villain for the first film, I think Jeffrey Combs is an incredible actor. I might have to do something similar to the Tim Burton Batman films in introducing future villains as background characters early on (even if they didn't use Billy Dee Williams for Two-Face).
Another good actor that I might have to find a space for. He was Tim Burton's first choice for the Joker in OTL (and TTL) but the studio got in the way, as studios are wont to do.
Crikey, there's been a lot of activity today. It's sort of making me regret the fact that I'm going to have to work on other stuff first, as there's a good chunk of 1989 still to go. I've found my stride again, and we're starting to hit the time when I'm getting a little more creative with my ideas for film and television.
Yeah that's fine. I'm well aware someone like Pyro isn't really all that important. And Sinister should def be saved for sequals imo
The Notstaring Website has a interesting page on alternate casting in the 2000 X Men movie.
https://www.notstarring.com/movies/x-men
It worth a look. There some interesting ideas there.
https://www.notstarring.com/movies/x-men
It worth a look. There some interesting ideas there.
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
Thank you. That website looks lite it might be a real gold mine for alternate history. Surprised I hadn't come across it until now.
We'll be seeing him at some point. He lobbied for the role of the Joker for Batman(1989), and I agree with you on him making a good Master.
The Actor, I love to see as the Master, did play him for 20 seconds in OTL. That is Darek Jacobi . I love the 20 seconds we got of him as the Master in the episode Utopia. Then he regenerated. I have nothing against John Simms but if you got a great actor like Jacobi, why not let him have a good run as the Master.
You might consider him as the Master.
Chapter X: "There's No Kind of Atmosphere"
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
Part II, Chapter X: "There's No Kind of Atmosphere"
"Originally, the plan was to just do the first two seasons in 1988, but the success got us an offer to make more should we wish. Craig, Chris and Danny were all on board, so we thought 'why not' and went ahead with it."
- Doug Naylor, in a 1992 interview.
The first two seasons of Red Dwarf, broadcast in 1988, had been a huge success. While Grant and Naylor’s original plan only lasted for two seasons, plans were made for three more, renewal permitting. 1989 would see the release of the third season, with two major cast changes.
While Craig Charles, Chris Barrie and Danny John-Jules would all stay for the next season, Normal Lovett, who played Holly, was less keen on returning. He was replaced by Hattie Hayridge, who had portrayed the female version of Holly in the Season 2 finale “Parallel Universe”.
The third season would also see Kryten brought from a one off character to a main one. David Ross, who had played Kryten in the one off appearance, was offered the role once more, but was busy with a stage production. The role was then offered to Robert Llewellyn, whom Naylor had seen play a robot in a separate stage show. Llewellyn accepted, rounding off the new cast. [1]
The addition of Kryten to the show gave Grant and Naylor more to work with going forward, as they had found the show to be increasingly difficult to write for. Like the first two seasons, the third season would consist of six episodes.
In addition, there would be more guest stars in the third season. The success of the first two had attracted the eyes of many British actors and actresses, including Graham Chapman. Chapman was cast in a cameo role in the penultimate episode of the season, “Timeslides”, as a television presenter. [2]
List of Episodes of Season 3 of Red Dwarf:
- Backwards
- Marooned
- Polymorph
- Bodyswap
- Timeslides
- The Last Day
The third season would prove to get even better reviews than the first two, resulting in the show being renewed for two more seasons, though the fourth would not be released until 1991.
[1] I kept the main cast the same, as I did last time. The castings were so good that I couldn't imagine better fits, and I need the show to be a success going forward for my plans (you may be able to guess from the year of the interview at the start).
[2] His cancer has been toned down. He still gets the tonsil tumors, but his cancer doesn't spread to his spinal cord, so he's free of cancer now. It's scared him though, so like drinking alcohol, he's given up pipe smoking. We'll be seeing more of Graham Chapman soon enough.
Sorry for the short update. To be honest, there isn't much I'm changing with Red Dwarf as of right now, but doing this now is important for a couple of things going forward. Next update, which I'll start writing tonight, will be out tomorrow hopefully, and covers the production of Season 3 of The Next Generation. I've got a surprise in store for you all as far as casting goes there.
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
I can't give spoilers, but rest assured that I love Jacobi's Master. While we only saw a short amount of him on screen, it was gold, and his audio stuff's been pretty good as well. He's a name I've kept in the back of my mind when doing the plan.
Yay Graham Chapman is still around, I could see him having a career a bit like Micheal Palin deciding to take more dramatic roles throughout the 90s and experimenting, you can see Palin do that at the start of the decade appearing in programs like G.B.H before he decided to continue doing documentaries instead.
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
I'll tell you this much, the next few updates, while focussing on Star Trek, won't actually touch on the films. They will be covered in the multi-year review that contains everything that wasn't big enough to warrant its own update, like Eurovision. Star Trek V won't come out in 1989 though.
Chapter XI: "Finding Your Feet"
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
Part II, Chapter XI: "Finding Your Feet"
“The third season is often hailed as one of the best that we did. Fans give all sorts of reasons, but I think that one of the big ones is that we, as a cast, finally found our footing. We’d had two years to figure out all of our characters, and that experience really shows in the third season.”
- Patrick Stewart, taken from Where None Had Gone Before.
As had happened with the second season, production of Season 3 began while the previous one was still airing. The success of the second season would give the writers a better idea of what worked in the new show and what did not. The third season would see many new writers join the crew, and some veterans leave.
Roddenberry would continue to have less influence on the show, the third season marking the end of his rewrites to certain scripts. Two notable writers who joined the show in its third season were Ronald D. Moore and Michael Piller, who would go on to write many stories for the Star Trek franchise. [1]
In addition, the departure of Diana Muldaur as Dr Katherine Pulaski left a vacany in the Chief Medical Officer position for the second time in as many years. There was a large letter writing campaign to bring back Gates McFadden, helped by the fact that her character had been written out, rather than killed off, at Roddenberry’s request. Though Maurice Hurley, the man behind McFadden’s firing, was no longer working on the show, there was some resistance among the writing staff to bringing her character back. [2]
As a result, the new character of Dr Amelia Henderson was introduced. To be played by English actress Stephanie Beacham, this new Chief Medical Offier hailed from the British Isles, and was appointed to the position following the retirement of Dr Pulaski. [3]
A second new character would also be introduced to the show, Ensign Andrew Kelly, a permanent tactical officer, to allow the character of Worf to be focussed on his job as Chief of Security. Long time fan and moderately successful film actor Christian Slater would land the role. Only 19 when cast, and just two years older than Carla Gugino, who played Leslie Crusher, Kelly would be written as a recent Starfleet Academy graduate. [4]
The third season would see the return of many enemies of the Federation, most notably the Borg in the finale episode, “The Best of Both Worlds, Part I”. The story would leave the season ending on a cliffhanger, with Picard assimilated by the Borg, and Riker in command of the Enterprise.
This would be done partially to cover for the fact that the contracts between the cast who had stayed since the first season only covered for three seasons. While most would sign new contracts that kept them on the show until an eighth season, Stewart would take longer to come to an agreement. As there was a real possibility of him leaving after the third season, the story was made to allow for his character to be written off, should the need arise. [5]
The season would also mark the start of actors from one of the “Big Two” of television science fiction guest starring on the other show. Denise Crosby, who had played Lt. Tasha Yar in the first season but was now known better as the Doctor’s companion Ace, would return to play Lt. Yar once more for the story “Yesterday’s Enterprise”. Her two co-stars, Hugh Laurie and Tom Hanks would also appear in episodes of the season, a favour that would be repaid by many cast members of The Next Generation in Doctor Who’s Season 24. [6]
At the request of Whoopi Goldberg, the character of Guinan and the rest of her El-Aurian species were given some more mystery. In addition to her being much older than she looked, and having prior knowledge of the being known as Q, she would be revealed to have a slightly different perception of time. Notably, this would come into play during “Yesterday’s Enterprise” where she would know intrinsically that the timeline she now existed in was ‘wrong’.
While some of the writers planned on explaining this in the show, they were stopped, so as to allow the fans to come up with their own theories. [7]
As the latter half of 1989 came, Star Trek: The Next Generation returned to television.
[1] Relatively little change from OTL as far as writing staff go. TNG operated an open spec script policy, meaning that anybody who had a script could send it, and they might be hired. This is how Moore joined. I've not said this explicitly, but Doctor Who doesn't operate in the same way, meaning that you get a lot more younger writers on Trek than Who (with one or two big exceptions that will be seen soon-ish).
[2] I nearly brought McFadden back, but decided that I would rather see somebody else take on the role. I personally never warmed to Pulaski, so Dr Henderson will be a little more like Crusher, but by no means a carbon copy.
[3] Her role in seaQuest is butterflied, as is that show (even though it's a bit down the line) as NBC already has a science fiction drama show in Doctor Who.
[4] His role in Heathers goes to Brad Pitt, who auditioned for it but was not cast in OTL due to the producers seeing him as "too nice". That doesn't happen here, so while Slater has some box office success, he never gets that breakout big screen role. When Paramount looks for a young actor to be in Star Trek, Slater steps up and gets the part. Slater is a Trekkie in OTL, appearing briefly in The Undiscovered Country.
[5] This is almost certainly an apocryphal tale, but I like it as a reason. Stewart will stick around for the rest of TNG, but we'll see more original characters in it from here on out.
[6] A little teaser for 5 updates in the future, which will cover the production of S24 of Who. As the relationship between the two shows is now much more amicable, it won't be uncommon to see people star in one show and guest in the other. Down the line, we may even see a few people have major roles in both franchises...
[7] I've got a plan for the El-Aurians in this timeline, but I'm not sure that I'll ever spell it out, rather just leaving enough for you all to piece it together. I'd describe it as a headcanon, but it only really works in this ATL.
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
As it turned out, "I'll start writing tonight" became "I write everything but the footnotes tonight". I got impatient just holding it back, so I've posted it earlier than I planned. This post will also serve as a little "where are we" for the timeline, so I'll give you a little roadmap for what I have planned. My current semester finishes on Friday, then I have four weeks off (though I will be doing revision and the like). As a result, that's four weeks where I can do a lot more writing. With a little luck, I might be able to get to the end of Part II by the end of April, which is when I go back.
That being said, my document with all the updates (minus footnotes, which I add when formatting for the website) is currently at 35 pages for Part II, compared to 27 for all of Part I. I think we're approaching the halfway mark (edit: we're about a year or two out actually) for Part II, but updates should be a little more frequent what with me having more free time and a pretty solid plan for the rest of Part II. So, without further ado, the roadmap going forward:
I think that's it. I've tried to avoid spoilers, I don't even want to give away the years that the different parts cover, as you might be able to infer some information from that. Suffice it to say, I have very big plans, and they'll take me another year at least I reckon. Hopefully you all will stick around for them, and continue to give me feedback on it.
That being said, my document with all the updates (minus footnotes, which I add when formatting for the website) is currently at 35 pages for Part II, compared to 27 for all of Part I. I think we're approaching the halfway mark (edit: we're about a year or two out actually) for Part II, but updates should be a little more frequent what with me having more free time and a pretty solid plan for the rest of Part II. So, without further ado, the roadmap going forward:
- Next nine updates I have a clear plan for and order: Release of TNG S3; Plot Summaries for TNG S3; What's Going On in the Rest of the World (1987-1989); Supplemental short update on diversity in science fiction and the like; Production of S24 of Doctor Who; Release of S24 of Doctor Who; Plot Summaries for S24 of Doctor Who; I'm not revealing what this is as it's a bit spoilery for now; Traveling Wilburys update.
- That will take us into 1990. From here, there will likely be 10-15 updates per in timeline year for the rest of Part II (apart from the last couple). 1989 numbers at 11 in all. It's unlikely that there will be fewer than 10.
- With any luck, by May we should be in Part III, which will likely take a month or two to get through. (I've actually looked at my plan, and to be honest, May might be a little optimistic given the sheer number of updates.)
- After Part III, well, you should be able to imagine what comes next. Each part is likely to be bigger than the last, and Part II will likely number another 50+ updates (inclusing supplemental stuff). 2019 is in Part VI, but I'm unlikely to hit that for at least a year. I actually have rough plans extending as far as 2025, but once the present in the timeline and real life line up I'll probably just wait until the actual time comes around, to allow me to focus on other stuff.
- At some point, probably not for another month or so though, I'm considering starting to write up some of the Star Trek stuff from an in-universe perspective. Trek varies a lot ITTL from Season 3 of TNG on, so if that's a thing y'all might be interested in, I might just have a go, as it would give me an opportunity to try a good bit of dialogue. I'll probably put it to a poll when the time comes.
I think that's it. I've tried to avoid spoilers, I don't even want to give away the years that the different parts cover, as you might be able to infer some information from that. Suffice it to say, I have very big plans, and they'll take me another year at least I reckon. Hopefully you all will stick around for them, and continue to give me feedback on it.
I like the idea that Christian Slater takes a role on Next Gen.
Which roles did Laurie and Hanks appear in?
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
They both appear in stories that weren't made in OTL. I'll say which next update, as it will give the titles of episodes. The one after that will give a little more info.
Chapter XII: "Stepping Out"
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
Part II, Chapter XII: "Stepping Out"
“I for one, was terrified. I was entering this situation where pretty much everyone had spent the past two years establishing a rapport with their fellow cast and crew, and I was nineteen, and a huge fan. When the airing date came around, I couldn’t bring myself to watch it, much as I loved the show. I’m all caught up now, but despite my experience, I was certain I was going to mess it up.”
- Christian Slater, taken from Where None Had Gone Before.
The third season of Star Trek: The Next Generation would prove to be instrumental in securing the future of the Star Trek franchise on television. Following a disappointing first season, and a “hit and miss” second, the third season would elevate the show to the classic status it now enjoys. Deviations from the Original Series would continue, as The Next Generation showed that it was not afraid to tackle big social issues. [1]
The number of viewers would stabilise this season. There was now a devoted fan base that would watch every episode without fail, securing the future of the show nicely. The near certainty of a fourth season would result in the creation of “The Best of Both Worlds”, a two part episode to end the third season and begin the fourth.
Two new charaters would be introduced, Dr Amelia Henderson and Ensign Andrew Kelly, played by Stephanie Beacham and Christian Slater respectively. Dr Henderson replaced Dr Pulaski, portrayed by Diana Muldaur, as the Chief Medical Officer, while Ensign Kelly was created to allow for other characters to have more time away from the bridge.
While there would be no new “big bads” for the show, it would see the return of the Borg, in what is often considered one of the best episodes of the franchise. Also returning would be the Mirror Universe, first seen in the Original Series episode “Mirror Mirror”. Many minor villains would recur, including the Ferengi, who were increasing being used to criticize elements of modern capitalistic society. [2]
The third season would be received with critical acclaim, being nominated for many awards. While a fourth season would be ordered before the third began airing, there were plans being made for more beyond that. As actors’ contracts were now renewed up to a potential eighth season, the writers began scheming ideas for the years to come. [3]
List of Episodes of Season 3 of Star Trek: The Next Generation:
- Evolution
- The Ensigns of Command
- The Survivors
- Perchance to Dream [4]
- Who Watches the Watchers
- The Enemy
- Booby Trap
- Shattered Time [5]
- The Price
- The High Ground
- The Defector
- Mirror Image [6]
- A Matter of Perspective
- Tin Man
- Yesterday’s Enterprise [7]
- Hollow Pursuits
- Ferengi Gold (Part 1) [8]
- Ferengi Gold (Part 2)
- The Offspring
- Sins of the Father
- Sarek
- Captain’s Holiday
- Deja Q
- The Hunted
- The Most Toys [9]
- The Best of Both Worlds (Part I)
- Captain Julien Picard – Patrick Stewart
- Commander William Riker – Jonathan Frakes
- Lt. Cmdr. Data – Brent Spiner
- Dr. Amelia Henderson – Stephanie Beacham
- Lt. Cmdr. Geordi La Forge – LeVar Burton
- Counselor (Lt. Cmdr.) Deanna Troi – Marina Sirtis
- Lt. Worf – Michael Dorn
- Ensign Andrew Kelly – Christian Slater
- Acting Ensign Leslie Crusher – Carla Gugino [10]
Work on the fourth season would begin quickly, with the second half of “The Best of Both Worlds” having already been filmed. Fears that Doctor Who would lead to the death of the franchise were allayed, and a spirit of friendly rivalry had been established between the two.
[1] The producers are keen to be more inclusive, as Doctor Who tried and succeeded with a concept that they turned down (namely Blood and Fire).
[2] Mix of old and new for this season. We never got a Mirror TNG episode. While we didn't get one with Voyager either, they at least had a couple of episodes that had things like it.
[3] The show is as, if not more, successful as OTL. The writers know what does and doesn't work now, so they have plenty of ideas going forward.
[4] Based on the novel of the same name.
[5] An idea from the earlier seasons that was never made, but rewritten to fit the tone of the third season.
[6] This is our Mirror Universe episode. This is the one with Hugh Laurie in, and it follows the plot of Dark Mirror pretty closely.
[7] Similar to OTL, but with a little more hinted at with Guinan. Crosby returns as OTL.
[8] A planned story, not dissimilar to "False Profits", but not played for laughs so much.
[9] David Rappaport doesn't commit suicide, so he appears in this episode as planned (this has a little knock on effect for the future)
[10] Unlike Wil Wheaton, Gugino doesn't ask to be written out, so she will be sticking around for a while.
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