If Keanu Reeves, isn't Ted "Theodore Logan" ITTL, I'm going back to WMIT, All Hail.
"Where Are We Going This Time": The Golden Age of Science Fiction
- Thread starter Timelordtoe
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To counterbalance that, I wonder if they still have the same issues with depicting Chandler's father as a gay drag queen, trans woman, or somewhere in-between, due to a lack of understanding.
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
Frasier is another show that I haven't really watched, but I looked up the production and Daphne (who likely gets a different name ITTL) was either going to be English or Hispanic, with Rosie Perez as the top choice if they went with the latter. Kelsey Grammar wasn't actually sold on the idea of Daphne being English until he did a read-through with Jane Leeves.
I'll go ahead and say that Frasier ITTL has Rosie Perez as Maria Alvarez and is set in Denver ITTL. I might come back and give the show a proper breakdown later on, Seinfeld too.
I won't spoil anything just yet, but I suspect that you'll be happy.
Assuming that something like that depiction still occurs, I'd imagine that it suffers from a lot of the same problems as OTL. Better as LGBT depictions in media are ITTL, there are still going to be missteps, and I think that any portrayal of that character close to OTL is going to be seen as a misstep in hindsight (albeit one made out of ignorance rather than malice). I do plan on coming back to Friends later to show how it ends differently, and given that Chandler's father didn't appear until Season 5, and that was only in flashback. It's probably different, and it might be up in the air as to whether we even see the character ITTL outside of flashbacks.
Interesting, especially with the different setting for Frasier.
I noticed the casts of Friends and Buffy are entirely not the OTL casts. I wonder, then, what Courtney Cox, Jennifer Aniston, and Sarah Michelle Gellar would be doing now if not for those shows kickstarting their careers.
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Chapter XXX: Film in the Golden Age of Science Fiction
Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
Chapter XXX: "Be Excellent to Each Other"
Though the bulk of media covering the “Golden Age of Science-Fiction” focusses heavily on the television media of the time and the “Big Three” franchises (Doctor Who, Star Trek, Star Wars), film also had an important part to play. [1]
Bill and Ted [2]
The exact dates of the beginning and end of the Golden Age of Science-Fiction are widely debated, but the Bill and Ted franchise is generally held to be a part of it, in spirit if nothing else. The series of films were commercially and critically successful at the time of their release, and have garnered a large cult following in the years since.
The titular duo of Bill S. Preston, Esq. and Theodore Logan were played by Alex Winter and Keanu Reeves respectively. Reeves was cast almost immediately after his audition, and subsequently, the casting of Bill was focussed around finding an actor that played well off of Reeves. [3]
The first film in the franchise, the 1989 film Bill and Ted’s Time Van, saw the duo recruiting famous historical figures from throughout time to help in their history report. They do this through the use of the “Time Van”, a 1969 Chevrolet Van that is gifted to them by Rufus (George Carlin), who comes from a utopian future that will be created by Bill and Ted.
The “Time Van” was one of two time-travel ‘vehicles’ proposed for the script, the other being a telephone box. The telephone box was initially favoured due to the potential visual gag of it ‘filling up’ with the historical figures, but was rejected for being too similar visually to the TARDIS from Doctor Who. Curiously, the initial draft of Doctor Who: Back to the Future, written before it became a Doctor Who film, featured a time-travelling car. [4]
The film was a critical and commercial success, making $45 million back on a $10 million budget, and a sequel was greenlit, as well as an animated television show. The television show, Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventures, ran for three seasons on CBS from 1990-93 and saw Reeves, Winter, and Carlin all reprising their roles. [5]
1991 would bring the sequel, Bill and Ted Go to Hell, which saw the duo facing off against evil robot duplicates of themselves sent from the future by Chuck De Nomolos (Ringo Starr), a contemporary of Rufus’ that hates rock music and wants to replace the utopian society he lives in with a more militaristic version. Partway through the story, Bill and Ted die and are met by Death (William Sadler) in a sequence that parodies The Seventh Seal.
Bill and Ted Go to Hell was positively reviewed and performed well at the box office, though it failed to reach the heights of the original. Nevertheless, New Line Cinema (which had bought Orion Pictures) were willing to finance another sequel. [6]
Bill and Ted Rock Out was released in 1994, and acted as the finale to the trilogy. Three years after the events of Bill and Ted Go to Hell, the duo have started to see some of the drawbacks of superstardom, and their relations with their respective wives have started to deteriorate. Things are made worse when Rufus reveals that their work is not yet done, and that they are to perform “the greatest song ever” soon, which will finally bring world peace. [7]
The film was met with mostly positive contemporary reviews, with retrospective reviews being more favourable. Filmed on a $15 million budget, a $5 million decrease from Bill and Ted Go to Hell, it made $40 million at the box office.
While most of the cast from the previous two films returned, William Sadler’s role as Death was greatly reduced from the original script as he had signed on to other projects which made him unavailable for most of the filming. Death was largely written out of the story with the excuse that he was “on holiday”. The remainder of his scenes were given to a new character called Mark, who “fills in” for Death when he is away, played by Nirvana drummer Dave Grohl.
Following the film, Reeves would take a short break from acting to focus on his band Dogstar, for which he was the bassist. Though the Bill and Ted series had been a success, many of Reeves’ other roles were less so, and increasingly, he noted that he was being typecast in films aimed at teen audiences. Dogstar soon found commercial success, opening for artists such as David Bowie, Bon Jovi, and Nirvana. [8]
Stargate
Of the three “Star” science-fiction franchises, Stargate is by far the most overlooked. The series of films, of which only the first two had been released by 1998, were subject to somewhat mixed reviews but box office success, and have garnered a large cult following in the years since their release.
The films, which starred Kurt Russell, are based around the concept of a “Stargate”, a ring-shaped device that allows for travel to different planets via wormhole. They also feature an alien species which used to be worshipped across the Earth as gods by various peoples.
The first film, which also starred James Spader, was set on an alien planet similar to Ancient Egypt. Unnamed in the first film, later films would give it the name Thinis. Spader would not return for the sequel, his character being written out as staying on Thinis. His character, Dr. Daniel Jackson, would be replaced by Dr. Mike Everett, played by Matthew Broderick, who filled a similar role for the remainder of the films. [9]
The second film, simply titled Stargate 2, was released in 1997, and takes place three years after the events of Stargate. In it, Colonel Jack O’Neill’s team uncovers another Stargate in the Yucatan peninsula, and travels through it to a planet (later named Itza) whose inhabitants appear to be Mayan. There, he and Dr. Everett, an expert on Mayan culture, encounter a being that calls itself Kukulkan that appears more friendly than Ra. However, he is later revealed to be plotting to take control of the Stargate for his own purposes.
Stargate 2 was, like its predecessors, a box office success, but met with mixed reviews. Commentators noted that the spectacle had only increased, especially in sequences that showed Kukulkan in his “feathered serpent” form. The film was met with some criticism in Mexico, as the portrayal of Mayan culture was somewhat criticised. Nevertheless, a third film had already been greenlit, and writer-director Roland Emmerich promised that it would “explain everything”. [10]
Bram Stoker’s Dracula
Though not actually science-fiction, the 1998 film Bram Stoker’s Dracula remains an important part of the pop-culture of the era. A critical and commercial success, it was notable for how faithful it was to the source material. Its success is credited with the “gothic horror revival” of the early 2000s, which saw critically praised adaptations of Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein and The Strange Case of Doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde amongst others.
The film had been stuck in development hell for some years until Winona Ryder, who had seen James V. Hart’s screenplay around 1990, brought it to the attention of Kenneth Branagh, whom she had met at the 1995 BAFTA Awards. Ryder, as well as starring in the film, would produce it alongside Michael Apted. [11]
Cast of Bram Stoker’s Dracula:
- Count Dracula – Daniel Day-Lewis [12]
- Mina Harker – Winona Ryder
- Abraham Van Helsing – Alan Rickman [13]
- Jonathan Harker – Robert Downey Jr.
- Dr. Jack Seward – Richard E. Grant
- Lord Arthur Holmwood – Kenneth Branagh [14]
- Quincey P. Morris – Ethan Hawke
- Lucy Westenra – Kate Beckinsale
- R. M. Renfield – Sting
Among other things, the film was the last project Daniel Day-Lewis would participate in prior to his initial retirement, it would also earn him his third Oscar nomination. It also marked the beginning of Winona Ryder’s career in film production, and the first of her collaborations with Kenneth Branagh.
Robert Downey Jr., who played Jonathan Harker, was experiencing addiction problems at the time. He was eager to take part in the film as he was a fan of Doctor Who, in which Ryder had starred, but his casting was contingent on him undergoing rehab after the film wrapped, as in order to leave the country to film, he required permission from court. He subsequently remained clean, and undertook more work outside the US thereafter, becoming a frequent collaborator of Ryder’s. [15]
Next Time: "Signs and Portents" - The Production of Season 5 of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
[1] There was going to be an opening quote which featured alternate lyrics to the part of "The Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny" which mentions Bill and Ted, but figuring out allternate lyrics to that song that incorporate changes to the timeline without spoiling anything was too difficult.
[2] I have to give huge thanks to @drwhom42 who gave me the idea to actually cover this series, while also giving me some of the ideas, specifically bringing the Time Van to my attention.
[3] The film is basically perfectly cast IOTL, I couldn't bear changing it. Reeves' film career is pretty different ITTL though from here.
[4] More or less an inverse of what happened in OTL. Time Van was the original plan, but they changed it due to BTTF.
[5] Animated show is from OTL, it just lasts longer here, and doesn't move to Fox.
[6] First two films are more or less OTL just with a van rather than a phone booth. Orion Pictures went bankrupt around this time in OTL, here they're saved by New Line Cinema, who considered buying them out IOTL before MGM eventually did. It also makes the creation of a third film a lot easier, as it was more or less just behind-the-scenes issues that prevented it from happening earlier.
[7] I couldn't come up with a complete synopsis I was happy with, so here's the rough idea. Somewhat similar to Bill and Ted Face the Music in some regards, but there's not another great way to close out the franchise.
[8] Dogstar are a little bigger here, though the first two acts they opened for are pure OTL. Only major difference is Nirvana surviving, which has already been established.
[9] Broderick was the runner-up for Dr. Jackson, so it makes sense that they'd cast him for his replacement.
[10] The sequels get greenlit here. Wasn't able to find much on the plans other than what's here.
[11] Ryder was who brought the script to Francis Ford Coppola's attention in OTL, her career has gone quite differently here, so Branagh gets it instead. It's probably a little different visually, but I feel like the film is kind of in keeping with his style for the time.
[12] His initial retirement happens later ITTL, and he was considered for the part.
[13] Considered for Dracula in OTL, but I think he'd make a good Van Helsing.
[14] I really like Cary Elwes' Holmwood, but I had to get Branagh in somewhere.
[15] Don't want to spoil too much, but Downey Jr. has a very different career here. Getting clean a little earlier is just part of that.
[2] I have to give huge thanks to @drwhom42 who gave me the idea to actually cover this series, while also giving me some of the ideas, specifically bringing the Time Van to my attention.
[3] The film is basically perfectly cast IOTL, I couldn't bear changing it. Reeves' film career is pretty different ITTL though from here.
[4] More or less an inverse of what happened in OTL. Time Van was the original plan, but they changed it due to BTTF.
[5] Animated show is from OTL, it just lasts longer here, and doesn't move to Fox.
[6] First two films are more or less OTL just with a van rather than a phone booth. Orion Pictures went bankrupt around this time in OTL, here they're saved by New Line Cinema, who considered buying them out IOTL before MGM eventually did. It also makes the creation of a third film a lot easier, as it was more or less just behind-the-scenes issues that prevented it from happening earlier.
[7] I couldn't come up with a complete synopsis I was happy with, so here's the rough idea. Somewhat similar to Bill and Ted Face the Music in some regards, but there's not another great way to close out the franchise.
[8] Dogstar are a little bigger here, though the first two acts they opened for are pure OTL. Only major difference is Nirvana surviving, which has already been established.
[9] Broderick was the runner-up for Dr. Jackson, so it makes sense that they'd cast him for his replacement.
[10] The sequels get greenlit here. Wasn't able to find much on the plans other than what's here.
[11] Ryder was who brought the script to Francis Ford Coppola's attention in OTL, her career has gone quite differently here, so Branagh gets it instead. It's probably a little different visually, but I feel like the film is kind of in keeping with his style for the time.
[12] His initial retirement happens later ITTL, and he was considered for the part.
[13] Considered for Dracula in OTL, but I think he'd make a good Van Helsing.
[14] I really like Cary Elwes' Holmwood, but I had to get Branagh in somewhere.
[15] Don't want to spoil too much, but Downey Jr. has a very different career here. Getting clean a little earlier is just part of that.
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Timelordtoe
Monthly Donor
I haven't got anything in particular nailed down for any of them just yet, but there are ideas. Jennifer Aniston was in another sitcom right before Friends, but it got cancelled after NBC scheduled more popular shows against it so they could get Aniston for Friends.
He auditioned for it in OTL, and I like him a lot as an actor. Angel definitey has a different vibe as a result, hence him not being a vampire here.
Heads up, next update might take a litte while, as I've not started writing my stories for the next season of DS9. If it looks like it might take a while, I'll try to put some other content out. I'm aiming for 2-3 updates a week right now, but the next season of DS9 will probably take more time than that gives me. But there are plenty of updates that could go in the Addendum (Character Profiles, etc.) that I can use to keep myself writing and motivated.
you're very very welcome, i hope it's the first of many collaborations to this wonderful tapestry of work you've started 💖 💖 💖
I certainly would like Sliders to be a bigger success ITTL. B5 got folded into DS9 as far as I can tell, but I bet JMS would want to take the other ideas he had and roll them out into something else. Seaquest would likely be quite different if it gets made (we have enormous plans for Jonathan Brandis, who will more or less be getting the career he wanted IOTL). The Outer Limits is a favorite of mine, so I imagine it occurs still. I cannot speak for the others.
character profiles for lucie, kahn-tineta or malcolm would be nice, as they're more "current" to the present-day of the tl
Here's an idea: Tracy Tormé pitches Sliders to PTEN, which pick up the show in place of Babylon 5 since it doesn't exist TTL and it pretty much takes B5's place in pop culture.
Some teasers for what's to come.
DOCTOR WHO:
DOCTOR WHO:
- Kris Lemche (Sam in Ginger Snaps, Ian in Final Destination 3, and God in the Form of a Cute Guy in Joan of Arcadia) will portray one of the Doctor's new companions, Luke Moore, from Season 32 through the foreseeable future.
- The casting of the Eleventh Doctor ought to prove something of a minor coup and will seriously shake up the direction of one of the show's major competitors.
- William Shatner will be a recurring guest star on Doctor Who going forward.
- Matt LeBlanc will be joining the recurring cast, Kirsten Dunst will be demoted to occasional special guest star, and Whoopi Goldberg will be showing up.
- Two unlikely characters from Season One will be making returns - you'll never guess who!
- Story titles from the next two seasons (at this time of writing) include: Odan, The Tzenkethi Extradition, and Kira Nerys and the Holy Grail.
- Season Four will feature a direct sequel to Real Life, plus examine the Borg while not nerfing them or straying from the original concept too heavily, and half of Season Five will take place inside a gigastructure that's half-a-lightyear wide.
- We've discussed doing a somewhat comedic story about either Kim or Locarno getting knocked up by an alien ambassador.
- Story titles from the next two seasons (at this time of writing) include: Small Prophets, Quick Return?, The Counsel of Elves, and Word from on High.
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😯Some teasers for what to come.
DOCTOR WHO:
DEEP SPACE NINE:
- Kris Lemche (Sam in Ginger Snaps, Ian in Final Destination 3, and God in the Form of a Cute Guy in Joan of Arcadia) will portray one of the Doctor's new companions, Luke Moore, from Season 32 through the foreseeable future.
- The casting of the Eleventh Doctor ought to prove something of a minor coup and will seriously shake up the direction of one of the show's major competitors.
- William Shatner will be a recurring guest star on Doctor Who going forward.
ODYSSEY:
- Matt LeBlanc will be joining the recurring cast, Kirsten Dunst will be demoted to occasional special guest star, and Whoopi Goldberg will be showing up.
- Two unlikely characters from Season One will be making returns - you'll never guess who!
- Story titles from the next two seasons (at this time of writing) include: Odan, The Tzenkethi Extradition, and Kira Nerys and the Holy Grail.
- Season Four will feature a direct sequel to Real Life, plus examine the Borg while not nerfing them or straying from the original concept too heavily, and half of Season Five will take place inside a gigastructure that's half-a-lightyear wide.
- We've discussed doing a somewhat comedic story about either Kim or Locarno getting knocked up by an alien ambassador.
- Story titles from the next two seasons (at this time of writing) include: Small Prophets, Quick Return?, The Counsel of Elves, and Word from on High.
Rest in peace, Louise Fletcher. In tribute, here's something we've had planned for DS9's latter portion for the last year or two.
Veritas vos Liberabit
So this is probably gonna be a two-parter and also, that up there is NOT complete.
In retrospect, I probably should have posted this upon Betty White's passing, but I didn't even think. Hopefully it works now.
Veritas vos Liberabit
The discovery of a historical document from the early 22nd Century rocks Bajor. It had been assumed that much of the planet’s documented history from before the Occupation had been wiped out by the Cardassians. It describes first contact between the Federation and the Bajorans and a race called the Hebitians. The Hebitians were the previous demonym of the Cardassians. According to the document, Captain Argus Kelly of the USS Shirley Temple Black gave the Hebitians free reign to act as they pleased on Bajor without regard for the natives. With a Dominion strike having crippled Memory Alpha's libraries and backups taking an eternity to upload, DS9 finds itself unable to offer a rebuttal to the Bajoran government, which is being pressured to extradite Lt. Kelly by the populace. The populace, in turn, is being manipulated by the Vedek Assembly and Navarch Winn, who cite an obscure Bajoran law that allows living relatives of dead criminals to be tried in their place. When this seems doomed to fail, Winn takes more direct action, attempting to have Kelly covertly assassinated.
So this is probably gonna be a two-parter and also, that up there is NOT complete.
At one point, however, I think Gramma Millie shows up and gets a scene where, in the wake of Kelly's near-death, one of the vedeks points out it was Winn's idea. Millie doesn't say a word; she storms down the Promenade to Winn, fire in her eyes, and grabs her by the throat before anyone can stop her. She slams the navarch to the wall.
KELLY: "Gramma, no!"
MILLIE (furious): "Andrew Eugene Kelly, shut up! Now, you listen to me, you stuck-up, brain-dead bitch! I know your type. Pathetic, power-hungry, and selfish cretins who see the world only in terms of what they can get out of it. You're not special. There's a million people just like you on every civilized world in the universe. I can't even bring myself to pity you; you're beneath me. But let me make one thing crystal clear, Adami. If you ever, ever try to hurt my grandson or any member of my family again, no force on Bajor, Earth, or this station will be able to stop me from kicking your saggy butt into that wormhole, your precious Prophets be damned! Have I made myself clear? WELL, HAVE I?!"
WINN (gagging, in tears): "Y-Yes!"
MILLIE: "Good."
Millie drops Winn like a hot potato; the two vedeks rush over to help her up. She waves them away.
MILLIE: "I want you to take a message back to your government, Adami. Tell them the Kelly family formally denies their tasteless allegations about our ancestor. In fact, we'll be considering it slander. If they would like to pursue the matter further, they can talk to our lawyers... after Memory Alpha is back up and running."
WINN (trying to regain her composure and failing): "I'll do that. M-May everyone have a- a blessed day. Ex- excuse-"
Winn doesn't finish, nor does she bother to walk. She RUNS LIKE HELL off the station, shoving past Odo and through the crowd to the docking ring. Her two vedeks are hot on her heels, looking spooked. Millie walks back to Kelly all sweetness and light as if she didn't just give Winn a glorious "Reason You Suck" speech. However, she stops at Garak.
ODO (projecting to be heard): "That's enough! Everyone, please disperse! There's nothing to see here. Go about your business!"
MILLIE: "Mister Garak, I know it's entirely something you can't do, but... well, wouldn't it be just awful if news got out to the Bajorans that their precious navarch is a murderous thug? Only after this little tiff is over, naturally."
Garak is wide-eyed, but the ghost of a smile crosses his face.
GARAK (faux-modestly): "Oh, Mrs. Kelly, I am but a humble tailor..."
MILLIE (effusively): "Why of course you are, sweetie! A humble tailor who's going to be getting quite a lot of my business very soon. Now, excuse me. Andy and I need to see Dr. Bashir."
Then she walks back over to Kelly, helps him up, and pats him on the cheek.
MILLIE: "Alright, dear, come on. Gramma's got you. Let's go to the infirmary."
They walk off. Kira and Garak stand there gobsmacked for a moment before...
KIRA (in awe): "Wow. Just... wow. Can she be my grandma, too?"
GARAK: "I'm sure Mrs. Kelly would be overjoyed to adopt you, major, if you asked nicely."
ODO: "You say that as if she hasn't already informally adopted the better part of the crew."
In retrospect, I probably should have posted this upon Betty White's passing, but I didn't even think. Hopefully it works now.
Homefront, Part II has a summary over three pages long. We've just spent the last three-and-a-half hours working it out. It reads more like a Memory Alpha summary than our usual fare. 
A selected snippet:
A selected snippet:
President Sulu wants to know what’s happening outside. He has an awful feeling that something bad has happened. Bashir explains that Gardener has taken over, but he doesn’t know much more than that. Sulu turns on the news, which immediately informs them that Vulcan, Andor, and Kashee IV have seceded, and Arbaz, Bolia, and Coridan are expected to follow. Tellar is still weighing its options, as is Xelatii II. Bashir and Sulu are horrified, with the president murmuring, “My God, what has he done?”