A very good round up for those of us who've yet to read the full timeline. Really interesting differences between our world and that one with so many changes in just a decade. Just a quick question or two, with Wellington Prime Minister (If that's what I've read right), why are hopes for reform so high? Speaking of Wellington, what's his reputation like? Is he seen as the man who 'killed' Napoleon? Or a better commander than most due to his time as a POW?
The Dead Skunk
- Thread starter Lycaon pictus
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Stolengood
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Phenomenal. Simply, thus. 
By the way, I can't remember if you still have Walt Whitman ITTL; IOTL, he was a child during Lafayette's visit, and got to be carried around on his shoulders. Just curious.
By the way, I can't remember if you still have Walt Whitman ITTL; IOTL, he was a child during Lafayette's visit, and got to be carried around on his shoulders. Just curious.
Well that was a breath of fresh air. Lovely.
I forgot the French Rhineland; is Cologne included?
I forgot the French Rhineland; is Cologne included?
Lycaon pictus
Donor
Thank you, everybody. Sorry it's taking so long. Many writing projects, plus looking for work again.
The farthest north they got was 81°30', in the area of Franz Josef Land. They'd have made it further if they'd planned for a sustained march instead of a lot of stops.
Thanks. Fixed.
Let's just say… look to the west.
Yes.
I do have plans for the Toledo Strip, but not just yet. The government would like to get people to settle in Michigan, but even now there are limits to its ability to get its own way, and the most desirable land is along the course of the National Road, which has been surveyed all the way to East St. Louis.
Wellington is maybe the one man everyone in Britain at least respects. Some of that is his military accomplishments — not just leading the army that took out Napoleon at Nancy and spending half of the worst year in centuries in a French POW camp, but his other victories in Spain and Portugal, India and America (although if they had it to do over again, they'd probably keep him and his army in Europe). Those victories look even better when compared to all the things that went spectacularly wrong for Britain on other fronts. There are still Conservatives asking questions like "Who lost Italy?" "Who lost Antwerp?" and, most often, "Who in God's name let Napoleon escape from Elba in the first place?" but at least they know it wasn't Wellington.
In politics, the Radicals see him as the best of a bad lot — he'll call out the Yeomanry against them if they get too noisy, but at least he won't go out of his way to entrap them. The less radical members of the Whig caucus feel the same way, only more so. In fact, though they'll never admit it, they would almost rather be dealing with Wellington than with Brougham. And to the Tories, of course, he's a savior. In addition to his personal merit, he's basically all they have after Canning's exile and what happened at Fife House. It doesn't hurt that he's one of the few people to make it through the Pains and Penalties fiasco with his dignity intact.
As for reform, the Whigs aren't actually holding out that much hope for the immediate future while Wellington is in office. But if nothing else, they figure eventually either there'll be new elections, or the king will drink himself to death and the new queen will call for new elections. O'Connell is definitely in this for the long haul — Ireland has been under British rule for a very long time.
Inevitable, really — the Louisiana government has a lot of money to throw around and not a lot of trained auditors.
Sadly, Whitman was born too late… along with Samuel Clemens, Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, and a lot of other cool people. Sometimes I hate my rules.
No, it's still Prussian, Prussia being the only power that didn't lose its lands on the French side of the Rhine. (One of these days I'm going to do that map of Europe.)
The farthest north they got was 81°30', in the area of Franz Josef Land. They'd have made it further if they'd planned for a sustained march instead of a lot of stops.
Thanks. Fixed.
Let's just say… look to the west.
Yes.
I do have plans for the Toledo Strip, but not just yet. The government would like to get people to settle in Michigan, but even now there are limits to its ability to get its own way, and the most desirable land is along the course of the National Road, which has been surveyed all the way to East St. Louis.
Wellington is maybe the one man everyone in Britain at least respects. Some of that is his military accomplishments — not just leading the army that took out Napoleon at Nancy and spending half of the worst year in centuries in a French POW camp, but his other victories in Spain and Portugal, India and America (although if they had it to do over again, they'd probably keep him and his army in Europe). Those victories look even better when compared to all the things that went spectacularly wrong for Britain on other fronts. There are still Conservatives asking questions like "Who lost Italy?" "Who lost Antwerp?" and, most often, "Who in God's name let Napoleon escape from Elba in the first place?" but at least they know it wasn't Wellington.
In politics, the Radicals see him as the best of a bad lot — he'll call out the Yeomanry against them if they get too noisy, but at least he won't go out of his way to entrap them. The less radical members of the Whig caucus feel the same way, only more so. In fact, though they'll never admit it, they would almost rather be dealing with Wellington than with Brougham. And to the Tories, of course, he's a savior. In addition to his personal merit, he's basically all they have after Canning's exile and what happened at Fife House. It doesn't hurt that he's one of the few people to make it through the Pains and Penalties fiasco with his dignity intact.
As for reform, the Whigs aren't actually holding out that much hope for the immediate future while Wellington is in office. But if nothing else, they figure eventually either there'll be new elections, or the king will drink himself to death and the new queen will call for new elections. O'Connell is definitely in this for the long haul — Ireland has been under British rule for a very long time.
Inevitable, really — the Louisiana government has a lot of money to throw around and not a lot of trained auditors.
Phenomenal. Simply, thus.
By the way, I can't remember if you still have Walt Whitman ITTL; IOTL, he was a child during Lafayette's visit, and got to be carried around on his shoulders. Just curious.
Sadly, Whitman was born too late… along with Samuel Clemens, Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, and a lot of other cool people. Sometimes I hate my rules.
No, it's still Prussian, Prussia being the only power that didn't lose its lands on the French side of the Rhine. (One of these days I'm going to do that map of Europe.)
The Inauspicious Incident (1)
Lycaon pictus
Donor
Not even a different sperm and egg produce an alternate figure?
Now that you mention it, the Whitmans were pretty prolific, so it's not too much of a stretch to have one member of it distinguish himself or herself… not necessarily in the same way, though.
The Class of 1824:
People Born This Year Who Will Show Up Later
People Born This Year Who Will Show Up Later
John Coffee Hancock, born January 11 in Montgomeryville, Pa., son of Benjamin Franklin Hancock and Elizabeth Hoxworth Hancock. Perhaps because he was named after the general who saved the West for America, he will develop an early interest in joining the Army.
Denton Johnson Brooks, born February 15 in Roseland, South Carolina, son of Whitfield and Mary Brooks. He will be a quiet child, but prone to emotional instability.
Elizabeth Miller, born March 27 at Mount Pleasant in South Carolina, daughter of Stephen Decatur Miller (one of the founding members of the state Tertium Quid party) and Elizabeth Dick Miller, who died giving birth to her, and that will be the beginning of an early life story with many woes, from siblings getting sick and dying young to her father’s financial troubles. She will learn to read and write quickly and well.
Francisco Agustín de Borbón y Iturbide, born April 9 in Mexico City, son of Prince-Viceroy Francisco and his wife Sabina. The government of Spain would like to make it very clear that he is not now, nor will he ever be, eligible to be Prince-Viceroy of anything. In fact, they would rather you didn’t bring him up at all, as he is just another reminder that King Ferdinand VII has no sons and one not-very-bright daughter. (If you’re wondering why they didn’t get so upset over Carlos’ son, it’s because that was Carlos and this is Francisco.)
Anyone hoping baby Francisco will die young and save everyone a lot of headaches is doomed to disappointment — he’s healthier than Carlos’ son, and much healthier than the Infanta. It probably comes of having a family tree that doesn’t look like a macramé belt.
Charles Brady, born May 1 in Warren County, New York, youngest child of Andrew and Samantha Brady. He will show an early gift for storytelling.
Edward Allingham, born June 20 in Ballyshannon, son of a well-to-do Anglo-Irish family. Despite an aptitude for scholarship, and against the wishes of his family, he will look to the Army as a means of getting ahead.
Solomon Parsons Morton, born July 24 in Shoreham, Vt., second son of Daniel and Lucretia Morton. Another one who will develop an early interest in a military career, possibly from growing up near an unfriendly border.
Tokugawa Iesada, born August 4 in Edo Castle, son of Prince Teijiro. He will die of smallpox at the age of three. The only reason he’s being mentioned here is to disclose that all of the eventual Tokugawa Ieyoshi’s children will die of one thing or another before the Shogun himself does. This is obviously very sad for him, and pretty bad news for Japan too.
Josephus Starke, born September 21 in Baldwin County, Alabama. His family (already only middling-successful farmers) will suffer a severe economic blow in a number of years.
Dheerandra Tagore, born October 13 at Behrampore, son of Dwarkanath and Digambaridevi Tagore. He will show an early gift for languages (always useful in India) and an even greater gift for public speaking.
Karl Peter Frederick of Holstein-Gottorp, born November 19 in the city of Oldenburg, first son of Grand Duke Augustus and his wife Adelheid. He will be an astute scholar, and absolutely fascinated with Victor Alexander of Hanover.
Nathanael Greene Whitman, born December 22 in Huntington, New York, son of Walter and Louisa Whitman. Of all his brothers and sisters, Nathanael will show the greatest interest in the visual arts, particularly drawing and painting.
As a special treat, here's a map of Europe at the end of 1824, giving a better look at the recent (and undoubtedly temporary) peace in the Balkans. Oldenburg is the state surrounded by Hanover.
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So we have an alternate Preston Brooks (may that man never lay his hands on a cane), an alternate Matthew Brady who is more into storytelling than what will become photography (well, photography is a kind of storytelling), an alternate Winfield Scott Hancock whose name has been butterflied because at least John Coffee ended his campaign on something of a high note, I presume? an alternate Mary Chesnut with a different mother and an alternate Walt Whitman who might fill the niche that the alt-Matthew Brady has left open and an alternate Levi Morton who won't go into politics, at least at first, and might not, even more tragically, have anything to do with an alt-Statue of Liberty.
Plus we have an heir for Mexico, even if all Spaniards deny it and no heir for the Tokugawa shogunate.
Well, a nice crop of future important characters! Do go on.
P-S : are Corfu and the neighboring islands occupied by Britain?
Plus we have an heir for Mexico, even if all Spaniards deny it and no heir for the Tokugawa shogunate.
Well, a nice crop of future important characters! Do go on.
P-S : are Corfu and the neighboring islands occupied by Britain?
Lycaon pictus
Donor
That's the "United States of the Ionian Islands," and it is indeed occupied by Britain. The chief executive is a Lord High Commissioner appointed by the Crown. They're not too happy that there's an independent Greece and they aren't a part of it, but on the other hand, they don't have to worry about the Turks coming back and wreaking horrible vengeance.
Italy quietly ceded Savoy to France as part of the price of French assistance in the Other Peninsular War. Since there wasn't a unified Italian state before the war, they still came out ahead.
I know that something similiar happened in OTL in 1860(!), but you made a mistake. In OTL Savoy and Nice was lost before the unification, but I really doubt that a unificated Italy would give one of its provinces away. It would be like Great Britain ceeding a province of Canada to the United States as payment for their help in World War I, or the German Empire ceeding East Prussia to Russia. The events of OTL were only possible because of the unique combination of sutuation and personel. Without Cavour this would never had happened, because he was a pragmatic and a realpolitiker.
Why? It's not like Joachim (sorry, Gioacchino) Murat has ANY attachment to Savoy. He was King of Naples, not of Italy, Rome or anything like that. And the House of Savoy itself gave up Savoy and Nice to the French to pay them for their participation in the unification process (and war) over the objections of the most dedicated unifier of them all, Garibaldi. In a time before nationalism has completely gelled, I don't see what would really prevent Murat from making this kind of trade-off. He is still going to need France to shore up his position if the Austrians ever come back for round two (this time it's Cannibal-er) however unlikely that may be. It's not England ceding a Canadian province to the US after WWI; it's more like the US making some slight border adjustments in favour of Spain along the Mississippi after the Revolutionary War.
What I find funny, though, is that France seems to have kept Elba. Was that any diplomat idea of a joke?
What I find funny, though, is that France seems to have kept Elba. Was that any diplomat idea of a joke?
Sorry, but even at that time Savoy and Nice IS a part of Italy, because they speak Italian and NOT French. And this is a time in which no "nation" would give up territories without a war (or being threatened with war).
Calling Savoyard an Italian language is a stretch. It's Francoprovençal, as much French as Italian (closer to the langue d'oc, which is neither). And by that reasoning, Britanny isn't part of France proper as well as half the country.
Savoie and Nice were directly incorporated into the French Empire in 1804 and the Regency for Napoleon II is visibly trying to preserve some aspects of Napoleon I's rule regarding territory, such as keeping Belgium and having some départements on the right bank of the Rhine. It was never part of the Kingdom of Italy that was created.
As for Murat, not only had he to fight to create a kingdom that encompassed the whole of the Italian peninsula, he had to fight for his life for some time. Plus I have no doubt Caulaincourt and Talleyrand made him feel that he was ultimately responsible for Napoleon I's death because HE chose to declare war on the Austrians at the worst possible moment of Napoleon's comeback tour and that Savoy and Nice were a small price to pay for them to support him. For all we know, there might have been no 'Italian' troops in Savoy and Nice when he was fighting a guerilla war in Piedmont and he simply acquiesced post facto to a French occupation of a territory that holds no sentimental value to him whatsoever. I'm sure some members of his government protested but he is king and they are not. Considering how much Murat was able to be opportunistic at times, I feel that is Lycaon pictus's call on whether or not such a trade-off could have happened.
Savoie and Nice were directly incorporated into the French Empire in 1804 and the Regency for Napoleon II is visibly trying to preserve some aspects of Napoleon I's rule regarding territory, such as keeping Belgium and having some départements on the right bank of the Rhine. It was never part of the Kingdom of Italy that was created.
As for Murat, not only had he to fight to create a kingdom that encompassed the whole of the Italian peninsula, he had to fight for his life for some time. Plus I have no doubt Caulaincourt and Talleyrand made him feel that he was ultimately responsible for Napoleon I's death because HE chose to declare war on the Austrians at the worst possible moment of Napoleon's comeback tour and that Savoy and Nice were a small price to pay for them to support him. For all we know, there might have been no 'Italian' troops in Savoy and Nice when he was fighting a guerilla war in Piedmont and he simply acquiesced post facto to a French occupation of a territory that holds no sentimental value to him whatsoever. I'm sure some members of his government protested but he is king and they are not. Considering how much Murat was able to be opportunistic at times, I feel that is Lycaon pictus's call on whether or not such a trade-off could have happened.
The Inauspicious Incident (2)
Lycaon pictus
Donor
Delays, delays… (sigh)
Meanwhile, the next phase of Dupuis’ career was being decided thousands of kilometers northeast of Asanteman. On January 6, 1825, King Ferdinand of Sicily did something that set in motion a course of events which would alter North African history forever.
He died.[1]
Upon his death, his son Francis became king. According to several Sicilian diarists, it was widely believed in Palermo, Catania and Siracusa that Francis would be more liberal than his father, and more open to reform. And perhaps that was indeed his intention. But no sooner was his father in the ground than he was confronted by massive demonstrations in the streets of Palermo. The demonstrators were not united in their goals — some were calling for a constitution and elected assembly, some for his abdication in favor of a Sicilian republic, and more than a few for the unification of Sicily with the Kingdom of Italy. For the first two days, these demonstrations were peaceful. On the third day, however, street brawls broke out among the three factions.
A cleverer and less fearful monarch than Francis might have exploited these divisions to his own advantage, bowing to the desire for a constitutional monarchy while still asserting his own kingship and the independence of Sicily. Francis was not that monarch. Using the “rioting and disorder” as justification, he ordered the army to crush the demonstrators and impose martial law on Palermo. In doing so, he united the three hostile factions — against himself.
And a part of the army went with them. The late King Ferdinand had foolishly cut the pay of his soldiers, and had allowed what was left of it to fall into arrears.[2] On hearing of the bloodshed in Palermo, the regiments stationed at Siracusa mutinied…
[1] This happened about the same time IOTL.
[2] To be fair to Ferdinand — he’d lost half his kingdom and half his tax base along with it, and he was trying to maintain an army that could defeat a rebellion, fight off Barbary pirate attacks or hold off an Italian invasion long enough for the Royal Navy to step in. His options were not great to begin with.
Meanwhile, the next phase of Dupuis’ career was being decided thousands of kilometers northeast of Asanteman. On January 6, 1825, King Ferdinand of Sicily did something that set in motion a course of events which would alter North African history forever.
He died.[1]
Upon his death, his son Francis became king. According to several Sicilian diarists, it was widely believed in Palermo, Catania and Siracusa that Francis would be more liberal than his father, and more open to reform. And perhaps that was indeed his intention. But no sooner was his father in the ground than he was confronted by massive demonstrations in the streets of Palermo. The demonstrators were not united in their goals — some were calling for a constitution and elected assembly, some for his abdication in favor of a Sicilian republic, and more than a few for the unification of Sicily with the Kingdom of Italy. For the first two days, these demonstrations were peaceful. On the third day, however, street brawls broke out among the three factions.
A cleverer and less fearful monarch than Francis might have exploited these divisions to his own advantage, bowing to the desire for a constitutional monarchy while still asserting his own kingship and the independence of Sicily. Francis was not that monarch. Using the “rioting and disorder” as justification, he ordered the army to crush the demonstrators and impose martial law on Palermo. In doing so, he united the three hostile factions — against himself.
And a part of the army went with them. The late King Ferdinand had foolishly cut the pay of his soldiers, and had allowed what was left of it to fall into arrears.[2] On hearing of the bloodshed in Palermo, the regiments stationed at Siracusa mutinied…
Lewis Page, Joseph of Oran: A Biography
[1] This happened about the same time IOTL.
[2] To be fair to Ferdinand — he’d lost half his kingdom and half his tax base along with it, and he was trying to maintain an army that could defeat a rebellion, fight off Barbary pirate attacks or hold off an Italian invasion long enough for the Royal Navy to step in. His options were not great to begin with.
The Inauspicious Incident (3)
Lycaon pictus
Donor
The seaborne invasion of Gran Colombia was not thwarted in any major battle. Rather, it suffered the death of a thousand cuts. It was already limited to the supplies that could be brought in by Spanish vessels through Caracas and Puerto Cabello. Seeing this weakness, over the winter of 1824-25 Bolívar encouraged sabotage at the port and guerrilla attacks on the supply train bringing food and ammunition to the front lines.
This campaign succeeded to a degree that surprised even Bolívar, for all his experience in irregular warfare. On February 7, de la Torre ordered a major change in strategy. His army would retreat to Caracas and Puerto Caballo and dig in there. Then, naval attacks would capture or destroy the remaining Colombian ports in the Caribbean. This marked a de facto acknowledgement that although Gran Colombia might still be forced to seek terms, it could not be conquered entirely.
Farther south, Carlos disagreed…
This campaign succeeded to a degree that surprised even Bolívar, for all his experience in irregular warfare. On February 7, de la Torre ordered a major change in strategy. His army would retreat to Caracas and Puerto Caballo and dig in there. Then, naval attacks would capture or destroy the remaining Colombian ports in the Caribbean. This marked a de facto acknowledgement that although Gran Colombia might still be forced to seek terms, it could not be conquered entirely.
Farther south, Carlos disagreed…
-Alpirez et al., History of the South American Nations
That's what the beginning of a civil war looks like. Long term though, I wouldn't bet on the young king.