The betrayal of the Kaiserliche Marine and the resurrection of the Reichsmarine
- Thread starter Gudestein
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Derfflinger had a range of 5600 nm, so call it an even 2000 nm radius (Maintaining a reserve in case a sprint is needed). So, while a commerce raid isn't a terrible idea, I think I'd start by rolling up the 10th cruiser squadron (Converted merchants that were actually holding the blockade line) Obviously, the British can convert many more, but if the 10th is slaughtered a few times, the RN might have trouble.
Let's see...If I'm correct, the Germans have left 2 Konig class, 1 Kaiser class, 1 Nassau class, 2 Helgoland and Bayern. They can no longer seek battle, certainly.
Incidentally, you have Audacious sunk during the battle. Did she not meet her fate in 1914 to a lucky mine?
Well certainly the HSF may no longer seek battle. Despite the fact that the British have lost more ships over all, the superiority ratio has increased. The Germans have 7 dreadnought (8 in 1917 when Baden comes online) and 3 battlecruisers (No chance of increase there). Possibly they could do something the unfinished Salamis and press it into service, but it will never be as tough as the German ships.
As I understand it, the British have no battlecruisers (Repulse and Renown joining soon; given recent experience, they'll probably be immediately uparmored, delaying delivery), and 22 dreadnoughts, with two more R class joining the fleet soon. There are still the QE and Malaya as a scouting wing. In the immediate future after repairs, that's 2 fast battleships scouting, and five divisions of battleships. No matter the cost, the HSF is defeated. Outside of perhaps of a rash of broken arms in the RN from self-back patting, the RN is now safely secure.
That said, as I detailed above, the best bet is to have the battlecruisers make a nuisance of themselves. Commerce raiding as possible, and harassing the 10th.
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Chapter 6: The birth of the capital ship raider
Chapter 6: The birth of the capital ship raider
As in the month before, the German yards quickly focused their attention on the heavily damaged battlecruisers and on the 15th of August 5 freightships fitted with cranes and loaded with coal, ammunition and plenty of fuel sailed north through the Danish belts. On the 16th the repaired Seydlitz took to sea without any radio signals and without the departure even being known beyond a selected few in the German command. On the evening between the 17th and during the morning of the 18th,she and her accompanying cruisers, Magdeburg, Stralsund and Strassburg fell on the armed merchant cruisers of the northern patrol and sank three of them before returning. Little did the Germans, nor the British know that the main purpose of the attack was to temporarily blind the eastern part of the northern patrol.
The 5 Merchant ships sailed through and took up pre-determined position near the north polar ice sheets and one took its position in a predesignated fjord on the eastern coast of Greenland.
For a few weeks, few activities happened in the north sea, but on September 3rd, the Seydlitz, this time accompanied by Derfflinger and Von der Tann, and again her screen of 3 long range cruisers took to the sea. Again, little warning had been provided in advance, even to the German crews, and no signals revealed their departure. On the 5th, as a few weeks earlier, the Germans struck on the northern patrol, sinking two British armed merchant cruisers. The difference was that this time, unbeknownst to the British, the German battlecruisers continued north
As in the month before, the German yards quickly focused their attention on the heavily damaged battlecruisers and on the 15th of August 5 freightships fitted with cranes and loaded with coal, ammunition and plenty of fuel sailed north through the Danish belts. On the 16th the repaired Seydlitz took to sea without any radio signals and without the departure even being known beyond a selected few in the German command. On the evening between the 17th and during the morning of the 18th,she and her accompanying cruisers, Magdeburg, Stralsund and Strassburg fell on the armed merchant cruisers of the northern patrol and sank three of them before returning. Little did the Germans, nor the British know that the main purpose of the attack was to temporarily blind the eastern part of the northern patrol.
The 5 Merchant ships sailed through and took up pre-determined position near the north polar ice sheets and one took its position in a predesignated fjord on the eastern coast of Greenland.
For a few weeks, few activities happened in the north sea, but on September 3rd, the Seydlitz, this time accompanied by Derfflinger and Von der Tann, and again her screen of 3 long range cruisers took to the sea. Again, little warning had been provided in advance, even to the German crews, and no signals revealed their departure. On the 5th, as a few weeks earlier, the Germans struck on the northern patrol, sinking two British armed merchant cruisers. The difference was that this time, unbeknownst to the British, the German battlecruisers continued north
Lutzow was sunk in one of your previous chapters. I believe only Derfflinger, Von Der Tann, and Seydlitz are on the right side of the water. Hindenburg will become available later
Good chapter. I'm interested to see what the Battlecruiser squadron is up to heading north. Morale on 10th cruiser will be plummeting, they are all sitting ducks to real warships. Soon, it might behoove the HSF to try and disguise merchants as warships. Send them to America for whatever. With luck, if any of the 10th sees them, they'll not look too closely, see a warship, and run.
Incidentally, in August of 1916, the strength of the 10th was 23 ships. 5 lost leaves 18, with 1 more expected (OTL) next month. Now, I expect that the RN will accelerate conversion, since they really don't want to use real warships on the line.
Incidentally, in August of 1916, the strength of the 10th was 23 ships. 5 lost leaves 18, with 1 more expected (OTL) next month. Now, I expect that the RN will accelerate conversion, since they really don't want to use real warships on the line.
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Chapter 7: Flash-back to July 3rd 1916.
Chapter 7: Flash-back to July 3rd 1916.
The second and devastating battle of the North Sea had resulted in a furious Kaiser Wilhelm brought to the brink of demanding a court martial for Scheer and Tirpitz. In his view, his orders that major warships were not to be risked recklessly had clearly not been followed and the Germans had suffered a strategic defeat as the direct consequence. At this critical time, Hipper, who was starting to look like the new commander of the High Seas Fleet, had come to the rescue of Scheer. In his explanation to the Kaiser, the German Fleet had been betrayed, but had nevertheless, in superb coordination between the battlecruisers and battleships accomplished its mission, the destruction of the British Battlecruisers. The Germans now were the only ones with fast and powerful ships. Now they had for the first time, the opportunity to take the fight to the British. Hipper was able to sway the mood, and over the next several hours, the new doctrine of the German battlecruisers were formed.
With regards repairs and building of new ships, repairs on the battleships were allowed to take longer than necessary and some battleships were even used as donors for secondary guns on the German battlecruisers. Suddenly, the Hindenburg could find all the hands it needed and the Salamis would temporarily be fitted out with 3 turrets from König class battleships giving it 6 12 inch guns. The bow would be rebuilt 9 meters longer and the added space from the X turret would be used for an even more powerful machinery. The hope was that Salamis in this way could be an intermediate between a battleship and a battlecruiser with a capacity for steaming at 26 knots.
Furthermore, work on the two Mackensen class ships under construction, Mackensen and Graf Spee was re-prioritized aiming for completion of Mackensen by the end of 1917 and Graf Spee by early 1918.
In this atmosphere of intense re-construction and design efforts, coupled with anti-espionage anxiety, a German engineer, Otto Krueger, was caught carrying information on the reconstruction of Salamis. While a devastating blow, it was realized that Krueger could not have been the spy providing the crucial tactical information to the Royal Navy, and he was executed soon afterwards
The second and devastating battle of the North Sea had resulted in a furious Kaiser Wilhelm brought to the brink of demanding a court martial for Scheer and Tirpitz. In his view, his orders that major warships were not to be risked recklessly had clearly not been followed and the Germans had suffered a strategic defeat as the direct consequence. At this critical time, Hipper, who was starting to look like the new commander of the High Seas Fleet, had come to the rescue of Scheer. In his explanation to the Kaiser, the German Fleet had been betrayed, but had nevertheless, in superb coordination between the battlecruisers and battleships accomplished its mission, the destruction of the British Battlecruisers. The Germans now were the only ones with fast and powerful ships. Now they had for the first time, the opportunity to take the fight to the British. Hipper was able to sway the mood, and over the next several hours, the new doctrine of the German battlecruisers were formed.
With regards repairs and building of new ships, repairs on the battleships were allowed to take longer than necessary and some battleships were even used as donors for secondary guns on the German battlecruisers. Suddenly, the Hindenburg could find all the hands it needed and the Salamis would temporarily be fitted out with 3 turrets from König class battleships giving it 6 12 inch guns. The bow would be rebuilt 9 meters longer and the added space from the X turret would be used for an even more powerful machinery. The hope was that Salamis in this way could be an intermediate between a battleship and a battlecruiser with a capacity for steaming at 26 knots.
Furthermore, work on the two Mackensen class ships under construction, Mackensen and Graf Spee was re-prioritized aiming for completion of Mackensen by the end of 1917 and Graf Spee by early 1918.
In this atmosphere of intense re-construction and design efforts, coupled with anti-espionage anxiety, a German engineer, Otto Krueger, was caught carrying information on the reconstruction of Salamis. While a devastating blow, it was realized that Krueger could not have been the spy providing the crucial tactical information to the Royal Navy, and he was executed soon afterwards
Historically Germans seemed to have grasp of the effective auxiliary cruiser concept (ie. disguised merchant instead of a liner) around 1916. With better opening by destruction of 10th Cruiser Squadron opportunities would seem to multiply. Both in WWI and WWII more use of AMC's by Germany is a decent lost opportunity.
Additionally, destruction of 10th Cruiser Squadron will also enable effective blockade running operations.
Does anyone have a good source on German ships available for blockade running and AMC conversion respectively?
Looks good to me. Salamis will be a little under-armed, but she's also under-armored comparatively, so that would work. Considering that German battlecruisers were named after commanders, may I suggest Steinmetz?
The liners in America need to be brought home, they are fast, and would acceptable runners. Any liner should make an acceptable blockade runner, though they aren't the best transports in the world. Refrigerator ships are the other fast ships in the era (Fast being defined as able to sustain speeds over 12 knots). I don't have an actual list, but to be honest, grab a couple of big names, then just make them up with some types. There would be a lot of ships that wouldn't be well known.
Per AMC's, are you looking for something that can go seize merchants? That being the case, more ships like the Seeadler would be ideal. It's slower, but can also stay out almost indefinitely. Coaling is a pain, and I'm guessing not too many diesel merchants available, so a tall ship is the best bet.
That kind of reconstruction is going to take a good year and a half. You're going to have to modify then barbettes for the USN 14" twin to take the KM pattern 12"...
And how is the Kaiser being furious about committing the fleet translating into him allowing the remaining battlecruisers to go off commerce raiding? There's also the threat of the 26 knot Russian battleships and the construction of the Russian battlecruisers to worry about - they weren't commissioned in OTL, but the Kaiser and the various staffs don't know that.
Also, at what point does the Admiralty ask the Japanese to commit a few squadrons of heavies?
Edit: at this point the RN is not going to look favourably on the Courageous class. You'll probably see them spamming Admiral-class battlecruisers with more armour - lose a few knots from 32 to 30. They'll probably be available 2 years from laying down.
To just lift turrets you're right, though a turret could be fabricated to take German 30 cm guns and sit on those barbettes. They'll be quite roomy. Turrets can be fabricated relatively quickly. At that point, you'd possibly be better off using German 35 cm guns since you are already making turrets.
Perhaps because the battlecruisers were allowed to be risked OTL, they are being risked ITTL since the RN now has nothing that can catch them?
I doubt the Japanese are going to send their shiny new Kongos to the North sea. There would be much concern that they might catch a torpedo or a mine. Then there's the fact that they were modified Lions, so the Japanese may well be checking them over to avoid their own ships going up.
Same with Repulse and Renown. The Courageous just became even more useless.
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I presume you mean cargo liners, as the capacity of passenger liners is small and they're manpower intensive. German merchant fleet was composed of high quality ships which mostly laid idle, much of them managed to get home when the war started.
As for AMC's, diesel merchants are best and there were some available. Ultimately, it might even pay off to re-engine some steamers with diesels, as the power required is similar to an U-boat. Tall ships in small numbers might be useful too.
Passenger liners are small and intensive, but they are fast. A classic blockade runner has speed at the expense of cargo. I'd say a blockade runner should be able to sprint at 16 knots for a reasonable time in order to be useful, and cruise at 12. Throwing a 10 or 15 cm gun on the aft might be useful as well. Being able to shoot back at a pursuing AMC is good for crew morale, and they might get lucky. I did mean passenger ships, but like I said, anything fast is acceptable.
I agree with this, though not at the expense of uboats. The other thing that might be worth trying is capturing some of those RN AMCs. If they can be taken in reasonably good shape, they can be pressed into service, either as AMCs or as blockade runners.