Sir John Valentine Carden survives.

[Derek Pullem]

Calais.

The events around Calais are in a funny way turning out to be to the British advantage. The Germans who are having problems with their C3, nearly as much as both the French and British, are falling into a trap. According to their own doctrine Calais should be bypassed and left to the follow up units to deal with, while the Panzers move on to the next target. By allowing themselves to be dragged into a fight against dug in forces in prepared positions, who have the possibility of major support, goes against all the doctrine. While there is little to no chance of the British deploying a battleship in support of the besieged garrison, they might send one or two light cruisers, two Leander class would have sixteen 6” guns, while two Town class would have twenty four 6”. Such weapons would make for a very bad hair day, for the recipients of their attention. While other than the French and British troops already in Calais, few if any others will be able to evacuate from the port, it is already serving a useful prepose. It is guarding the southern approaches to Dunkirk and dissipating the German effort. Any German force that gets between Calais and Dunkirk has to worry about attack from two directions, plus intervention by the RN. The German Army hadn’t taken notice of the money spent by the British on the RN, and wasn’t used to the power that it could project on ground forces close to the sea.

Every man, tank, artillery gun, and aircraft that is diverted to trying to eliminate the lodgement at Calais, is one that is not being used in the far more important battle around Dunkirk. If the British do send a couple of cruises to bombard the German forces around Calais, the only possible threat to them is from the Luftwaffe. And unlike in Norway, where the ships were operating without any air coverage, those in the channel, should have some, directed by radar. Sending unescorted Stuka's to try and bomb cruisers, when they don’t have the ordinance, armoured piercing bombs, is a recipe for disaster. The Stuka's were quickly removed from front line service during the BoB, as they were easy meat for the British fighters. Sending them out into the channel to hit moving targets, which they were not trained to do, moving targets that have some AA guns to fire back with, and covered by RAF fighters. This is how to lose a lot of your Stuka's, which should be attacking Dunkirk, in an attempt to prevent the evacuation. And which you need for the continuing campaign in the South of France, which is still the major threat to the German Army, if they want to prevent becoming bogged down in a static war, and giving the French the opportunity to recover from their panic.

RR.

I agree with your sentiments but even a few disposable destroyers could give the Germans a very bad day as was shown at Boulogne in OTL

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Behold TRUE fear

Horror Bag - ARRSEpedia

www.arrse.co.uk

White Box of Death - ARRSEpedia

www.arrse.co.uk

As a spotty Air Cadet at summer camp I along with three other unfortunates found ourselves in the kitchen actually making these horrors. The quality wasn't helped by the fact we'd been bulling our boots when we were "Volunteered" for the job and not given time to wash our hands first.

 

[MattII]

I agree with your sentiments but even a few disposable destroyers could give the Germans a very bad day as was shown at Boulogne in OTL

I wouldn't exactly call destroyers disposable. they're kind of critical to running convoys.

 

[Astrodragon]

The snag with the idea of bypassing strongpoints and leaving them to someone else is what happens when you run into one you need? Or daren't leave behind you? Or the 'someone else' is stuck way behind you on horse-drawn transport?
Its a wonderful idea when it works...

 

[Astrodragon]

I wouldn't exactly call destroyers disposable. they're kind of critical to running convoys.

The RN did indeed consider destroyers expendable. Being expendable is part of the job. Well, along with being a touch aggressive...

 

[MattII]

The RN did indeed consider destroyers expendable. Being expendable is part of the job. Well, along with being a touch aggressive...

Perhaps, but still not something you'd throw away on a whim.

 

[Astrodragon]

Perhaps, but still not something you'd throw away on a whim.

A whim? No. But if it damages the enemy, yes. Look at what they did with destroyers off Norway, off Dunkirk, in the med...

 

[Darrenb209]

The RN did indeed consider destroyers expendable. Being expendable is part of the job. Well, along with being a touch aggressive...

Expendable and disposable are two different things though despite being similar. Disposable is meant to be thrown away regardless of anything else, expendable resources are meant to be spent to accomplish something.

Disposable things are expected to be single use then thrown away, expendable things are expected to be used to accomplish multiple goals but if they're lost then it's not a major loss.

 

[Spencersj345.346]

I wouldn't exactly call destroyers disposable. they're kind of critical to running convoys.

And unlike WWI buildimg them takes roughly just under two years on average

 

[Orry]

And unlike WWI buildimg them takes roughly just under two years on average

Still takes 300 years to build a tradition

 

[Derek Pullem]

Expendable and disposable are two different things though despite being similar. Disposable is meant to be thrown away regardless of anything else, expendable resources are meant to be spent to accomplish something.

Disposable things are expected to be single use then thrown away, expendable things are expected to be used to accomplish multiple goals but if they're lost then it's not a major loss.

I defer to your greater vocabulary

 

[MattII]

Still takes 300 years to build a tradition

That's why you send light cruisers over, their guns have a longer range, a bigger punch, and better fire-control, plus they're slightly more resistant to air attack.

 

[Derek Pullem]

That's why you send light cruisers over, their guns have a longer range, a bigger punch, and better fire-control, plus they're slightly more resistant to air attack.

Not sure that is that much more effective - plus destroyers may do a run or two into Calais itself to take off wounded and rear echeleon types

 

[MattII]

Not sure that is that much more effective - plus destroyers may do a run or two into Calais itself to take off wounded and rear echeleon types

That'd be a more effective use of them than trying to do shore bombardment work.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

That'd be a more effective use of them than trying to do shore bombardment work.

There's nothing to stop them throwing a few shells inland on the way to make a pick up. Every little helps. Hopefully if it's putting up a stiffer fight Calais will get a bit more air support than a few Hawker Hectors, so shore bombardment will be a nice extra rather than desperately needed.

 

[Astrodragon]

Just to toss in a little perspective.
A Southampton class cruiser has twice the range and twice the throw-weight per minute of the ENTIRE panzer Division's artillery...

 

[Schlock]

What they'll get is HMS Galatea and HMS Cardiff, a couple of 'Fleet' cruisers. Pretty much the smallest cruisers in the RN, which means 11 x 6in guns, short hulls and a shallow draft that allows them pretty much get as close in to shore as a destroyer.

 

[MattII]

What they'll get is HMS Galatea and HMS Cardiff, a couple of 'Fleet' cruisers. Pretty much the smallest cruisers in the RN, which means 11 x 6in guns, short hulls and a shallow draft that allows them pretty much get as close in to shore as a destroyer.

The Germans would be sorry for picking that fight.

 

[thegreatpl]

25 May 1940. Calais, France.

Missing threadmark.

 

[Cymraeg]

Fear not, for though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of the British Rail Pork Pie, I shall fear no evil, for I have confronted the darkness in its many shapes, of Sürstromming, fermented shark and the British Rail Sandwich.

You have not been touched by the true horror. I have survived the head-spinning horror of the British Rail Hamburger, the thing that smelt the same as the braking of the train and the thing that makes one hunch over a toilet bowl after eating a bad one.
It was feared in it's time.
The Horror.