Which alphabet should the Somali language use?

  • The Cyrillic Alphabet

    Votes: 27 15.8%
  • The Latin Alphabet

    Votes: 77 45.0%
  • The Osmanya Alphabet

    Votes: 31 18.1%
  • The Kaddare Alphabet

    Votes: 20 11.7%
  • The Somalo-Arabic Alphabet

    Votes: 43 25.1%
  • Cyrillic/Latin/Kaddare Alphabets together

    Votes: 11 6.4%
  • Latin/Kaddare/Somalo-Arabic Alphabets together

    Votes: 8 4.7%
  • Cyrillic/Kaddare/Somalo-Arabic Alphabets together

    Votes: 7 4.1%
  • Latin/Cyrillic/Osmanya together

    Votes: 5 2.9%
  • Latin/Osmanya/Kaddare together

    Votes: 3 1.8%
  • Cyrillic/Osmanya/Kaddare together

    Votes: 5 2.9%
  • Cyrillic/Osmanya/Somalo-Arabic together

    Votes: 5 2.9%
  • Latin/Osmanya/Somalo-Arabic together

    Votes: 8 4.7%
  • Latin/Cyrillic/Osmanya/Somalo-Arabic/Kaddare together

    Votes: 17 9.9%

  • Total voters
    171
You'd still see some sort of insurgency, albeit smaller, as Pakistan was already funding militants to get back at Afghanistan for supporting separatists in Pakistan's northwest region.

Do you know how popular the insurgency was prior to having the propaganda against the DRA vindicated to some degree by Khalqist repression of moderate (and even Parcham leftist) ulema? A less popular insurrection might be successfully handled "in-house" so-to-speak by the DRA.


Everyone vote for the Osmanya alphabet, it was the most popular script at the time.

But if you don't pick an option with Cyrillic, I won't get to draw up proper Somali versions of these posters:

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Fighting Lazy Workers.jpg



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I imagine that the Afrofuturist and NEP-era loving Communists of Somalia would prefer the avant-garde Constructivist Soviet-style over Socialist Realism, anyways.
 
Do you know how popular the insurgency was prior to having the propaganda against the DRA vindicated to some degree by Khalqist repression of moderate (and even Parcham leftist) ulema? A less popular insurrection might be successfully handled "in-house" so-to-speak by the DRA.

I have a good book on Afghanistan though I am moving and it is already packed, so at best expect an answer in two weeks. But yeah, a less popular insurrection could be handled.
 
You're on to something here, I think. Beyond being Islamic communists in the Marxist-Leninist style, both the Kediyist wing of the Somali Democratic Republic's XHKS and the Parcham wing of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan's PDPA thought that the way forward for was to institue a "red capitalism" that featured a mixed economy and a strong welfare state guided by the local Communists before the nation was ready for Soviet-style communism (ironically, the Western communists that they idolized might have traded places with someone living in a Parcham-Socialism Afghanistan or Kediyist Somalia if they had the choice.) If Somalia comes out of 1978 still friendly with the Soviet Union and fresh from an easy victory in the Ogaden, the Parcham wing of the party would get a serious boost (since one of the biggest arguments that the hardliner Khalqist faction used against the Parcham faction was that there was no example of a working Red Capitalism while they could point to Mao's China as evidence of the "success" of their view.) IOTL, a PDPA Central Committee meeting in 1978 voted in favor of giving the Khalqist faction exclusive control over PDPA policy - it could fail or even be inverted ITTL, with the "Cultural Revolution now!" Khalqists being the ones who get locked out of power.

Without the repressive Cultural Revolution style actions of the Khalqists to inflame passions (and especially if Somalia's acceptance of religious moderates is copied), the flame of hinterlands Pashtun rage against the DRA would never be lit - indeed, the initial widespread support that the Saqr Revolution had might never wither away. A Parcham-Communist Afghanistan (with fellow devout Islamic-Marxist economists and policy aides from Somalia, of course) might actually become the relatively peaceful and increasingly modernized Soviet-bloc country that the USSR hoped for...all without a Soviet intervention. Interventions tend to make people hate you, but lenient policy and food on the table does wonders for a government's popularity.


Holy hell, did we just butterfly the USSR's Vietnam War away entirely?! Maybe the Red Bloc does have a chance of living to the 21st century ITTL!

I was gonna say something like that in my first post, but I didn't want to sound like, "Well, they're both majority-Muslim countries, so one succeeding ITTL means the other will, too". That just seemed too presumptive. But when you put it like that, yeah, it's totally plausible! Incidentally, you seem really well-read on the DRA; any books you could recommend? Just out of curiosity.
 
I was gonna say something like that in my first post, but I didn't want to sound like, "Well, they're both majority-Muslim countries, so one succeeding ITTL means the other will, too". That just seemed too presumptive. But when you put it like that, yeah, it's totally plausible!

No worries - I'd been mulling over whether or not to swing around to Afghanistan in time but I didn't give it a huge amount of thought until you brought it up. In fact, I've been thinking that after I finish setting the stage for the rise of the XHKS (and offing Siad Barre, just for fun) I might want to do a quick hop-around to other post-colonial African and Middle Eastern states that Somalia will eventually impact. Y'all might be seeing a lot of this handsome fellow in a certain Asian country soon enough:

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Incidentally, you seem really well-read on the DRA; any books you could recommend? Just out of curiosity.

Nah, I'm just a schmuck who spends too much time reading about non-Western Soviet-Bloc countries in general - my knowledge of Afghanistan is more limited than I'd like. That being said, Anthony Arnold's Afghanistan's Two-Party Communism: Parcham and Khalq is a fantastically detailed resource on the birth, internal dynamics, and eventual dysfunction of Afghan Communism from before the Saqr Revolution to the Soviet War in Afghanistan. It's ridiculously priced on Amazon, but I have access to a free version through my university's digital library system and I'll see if I can get a pdf out to y'all.
 
I've got to say, the Latin script's solution to the double vowel problem has never ceased to make me laugh.

Somalo-Arabic: "Use Arabic's combined vowels and you'll be A-OK!"

Cyrillic: "Nyet, diacritical marks are the way to go!"

Kaddare/Osmanya: "Both of you are dumb, just make a new alphabet that incorporates the double vowels directly."

...

Latin: "Double vowels? Why don't we just literally double the vowel letter in the word?"


It's so kludgy that it's somehow come back around to being elegant.
 
I've got to say, the Latin script's solution to the double vowel problem has never ceased to make me laugh.

Somalo-Arabic: "Use Arabic's combined vowels and you'll be A-OK!"

Cyrillic: "Nyet, diacritical marks are the way to go!"

Kaddare/Osmanya: "Both of you are dumb, just make a new alphabet that incorporates the double vowels directly."

...

Latin: "Double vowels? Why don't we just literally double the vowel letter in the word?"


It's so kludgy that it's somehow come back around to being elegant.

What's wrong with it? At least the Somali spin on the Latin alphabet is not an orgy of diacritical marks or weird letter combinations like several European languages (up to and including English) or, fuck, Vietnamese. :p

Hell, not even Italian is fully phonetic, and it's up there with Finnish as far as orthographic clarity goes.

Edit: you know what would be cool, @GoulashComrade? Dhaanto being exported overseas. It reminds me a lot of reggae, as a music genre - in fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were an actual ancestor of reggae - and it could take off in the Soviet sphere as a Party-approved version of reggae itself, combining danceable tunes and social messages in much the same way reggae does.
 
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Red Nights in the Seastone City - Part II
Red Nights in the Seastone City - Part II

There's Nothing More Rock-n-Roll Than A Riot!



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Staff members from the government-run Radio Muqdisho posing with the musicians from the band Warsangeli.



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The students of a free summer school program run by the Communist Party of Italy take a class photo, Bosaso, Italian Somali Protectorate




Buuraha Uu Dheer [The Highest Mountains] by Nimco Jamaac and the Toghdeer Jazz Band






From "Slouching towards Mogadishu: The Reformist Dream of the Somali First Republic" by Oskar Schwartzmann


Italy's new position in her former colony of Somalia was carefully and closely defined in the United Nations Trusteeship agreement under which she assumed responsibility for the territory. The Italian Trust Administration (A.F.I.S.) was required to ‘foster the development of free political institutions and to promote the development of the inhabitants of the territory towards independence’. To achieve this end Somalis were to be given increasing responsibility in the political and administrative control of their country under the benevolent tutorship of the Trust Administration. The Agreement, which was approved by the U.N. Assembly on 2 December, 1950, also contained as an annex a declaration of constitutional principles guaranteeing Somali rights and the full implementation of the Trust Administration’s obligations.


To make assurance doubly sure from the Somali point of view, a special U.N. Advisory Council was created to sit in Mogadishu to provide direct liaison with the Italian Administration and its wards. This body, which consisted of a small committee of representatives of U.N. member governments and a small secretariat staff, was available to make recommendations and reports on the progress of development in all spheres and to provide tangible evidence of United Nations responsibility and concern. The effect of this U.N. presence was also further strengthened by the provision of regular visiting missions which, like the Advisory Council, reported to the Trusteeship Council of the United Nations These measures which left Italy little room for manœuvre or evasion, coupled with the restriction of the trusteeship period to ten years, helped to allay Somali apprehensions. Nevertheless, the first few years of the new régime were marked by animosity and suspicion on both sides. With memories of the 1948 disturbances very much alive, and conscious that they were unlikely to receive a very cordial welcome, the returning Italian authorities judged it prudent to ensure that they were adequately protected against any violent expression of Somali resentment.


To Somalis, however, the strong military forces which were dispatched to support the establishment of the new administration, gave the handover much of the character of a military occupation. Nor was the position much eased by the heavy-handed manner in which the Italians tended, initially at least, to reassert their authority. Some prominent S.Y.L. members who had achieved responsible positions in the civil service under the British were reduced in rank, dismissed, and even arbitrarily imprisoned. Similar measures were also taken against leading PCI-supporting civilians, particularly those judged to be dangerously anti-colonial; and a determined attempt was made to discredit the strength and popularity of the League. Arbitrary acts of this sort led to S.Y.L. demonstrations and, on a number of occasions, to riots which were strongly repressed by the authorities.


This unfortunate vendetta, however, did not involve all the rank and file of the S.Y.L. and did not prevent some members from unostentatiously co-operating with the Italians in the implementation of new progressive developments. Hence, although the first two years of the trusteeship were marked by a series of incidents between the League and the Administration which reduced the immediate effectiveness of measures designed to promote Somali advancement, this equivocal period nevertheless saw the groundwork for progress firmly established. Nowhere was this more striking than in the field of education. An ambitious and imaginative scheme for general education crystallized in a five-year development programme launched in 1952 with UNESCO collaboration. New state schools providing free education replaced the mission schools upon which the Italians had relied in the past; and by 1957 some 31,000 children and adults of both sexes were enrolled in primary schools, 246 in junior secondary schools, 336 in technical institutes, and a few hundred more in higher educational institutions. This represented a notable advance on the situation in 1950 when little more than two thousand students were receiving education. It also testified to the new and widespread public appetite amongst the old and young alike, especially in the towns, for Western education.


Despite this progress in certain settings, much was left to be desired by the Italian administration's rule. The breakup of legal firms for Somalis meant that native Somalis lacked quality representation in the Italian courts, the proletarianization of the workforce as more and more families flooded into the cities meant that there was a new class consciousness awakening in the minds of the populace that sought expression, and the problems with getting credit from the Italian banks left many Somalis unable to start businesses or mechanize their farms. Taking a crack at solving all of these problems in place of the government were some old and trusted allies of the Somali people - the Communists of the PCI affiliates. Led by the twenty-seven year old Mogadishu-born teacher and revolutionary firebrand Vinfredo Montanari (fondly called "the Young Dervish" by the Somalis of Mogadishu for his passionate speeches), the PCI affliate politiclubs began the "Good Neighbor" program; their Young Pioneers became a popularly attended youth group for Somali and Italian children alike (many later members of the XHKS and its successor party of the XCKS were introduced to Marxism here), the House of Labour trade union council was jointly set up by the PCI and the left-SYL, and communist-run credit unions swiftly replaced the Italian sanctioned banks as the main financial institutions of the Somali people. Another result of the close cooperation between the PCI/left-SYL and the urban population was the prevalence of left-wing coffeehouses.


The institution of the coffeehouse in Somalia is an old one, initially evolving from waystations where settled Somalis and Bantus sold coffee to migrating nomads passing through farming villages. As Somali trading outposts on the coasts became flourishing cities, coffeehouses became cultural hotspots - a trend only reinforced by the coming of the Ottoman administration in Zelia and the introduction of Ottoman coffee culture into Somalia. Like in other parts of the Islamic world, coffeehouses became centers of political agitation in the colonial days (Italy, itself a nation of coffee lovers, only contributed to the rapid proliferation of coffeehouses in the country.) Cafes built in the European style serving both Somali, Yemeni, and Italian varities of coffee alike became frequented by communists and left-wing nationalists, while the "collaborator" centrist nationalists and the right wing Italians shunned them as being hangouts for angry youths and the working-class. There was some truth to this: the majority of cafes were co-operatives run by PCI members and Somalia's growing proletariat openly preferred to frequent PCI-operated establishments in a show of solidarity with the embattled communists. While the Somali and Bantu communities grew closer to the PCI affiliated Italians, the ruling Italians began to see the coffeehouses as hothouses of rebellion and sedition. Attempts to violently close down some coffeehouses during performances by Italian and Somali jazz musicians on the part of the gendarme ended in shootings and riots. Soon, the communists and their Left-SYL allies were drinking their coffee and listening to music with rifles slung across their backs, ready for fresh attempts at "crowd control" by the police. The golden age of colonial co-operation was dead without having spent even five years in the sun and it looked like armed communist revolution was just around the corner.
 
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Good update, as usual!

Why was adminstration turned back over to the Italians given their less than stellar track record?


It's discussed somewhere within an earlier update, but the short version is that the British didn't give enough of a damn about Somalia to fight the Italian and Ethiopian governments over the administration of the territories, so they overruled their own men on the ground (who strongly favored the incorporation of all ethnically Somali territories into one British Greater Somali Protectorate) and broke up the country. They still administered British Somaliland, though.


Communists congregating in colonial-era co-operative coffeehouses and co-opting discontentment.

Pack it up, y'all, this thread is done. We could only go downhill from Wayside's comment here :closedeyesmile:.
 
There must be something about coffee that inflames revolutionary sentiment: many thinkers of the Risorgimento plotted against Austrian rule while having more caffeine than blood plasma in their veins, and the XCKS affiliates and allies are continuing this tradition; I wouldn't be surprised if one of the P.C.I. troublemakers in Mogadishu were only a couple cups of coffee away from ordering a shipment of red shirts and ponchos to serve as the unofficial uniform of the revolution. Having motley bands of Italians and Somalis in the Horn of Africa dressed up like Giuseppe Garibaldi would be far less weird than some of the stuff that's currently going on in the far southern end of the continent, after all.

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Yes, this is a Tswana man dressed like a post-apocalyptic cowboy metalhead. Given Somalia's herding and musical tradition, it could totally happen up there, too.

Actually, it should happen, because, come on. You can't get much cooler than this.
 

Redcoat

Banned
It is but, for example, the letters C and G can be pronounced in two different ways depending on what consonant or vowel follows them, just like the GL and SC phonemes,
I could probably write like maybe a paragraph tops about exceptions in Italian orthography. Of all the problems I have in learning Italian, orthography is nothing tbh. The exceptions in orthography is something I get rather easily, and those exceptions are consistent. "I before e except after C?"

What about concierge, conscience, deficiencies, science?

To be correct actually it should be:
I before e, except after c
Or when sounded as 'a' as in 'neighbor' and 'weigh'
Unless the 'c' is part of a 'sh' sound as in 'glacier'
Or it appears in comparatives and superlatives like 'fancier'
And also except when the vowels are sounded as 'e' as in 'seize'
Or 'i' as in 'height'
Or also in '-ing' inflections ending in '-e' as in 'cueing'
Or in compound words as in 'albeit'
Or occasionally in technical words with strong etymological links to their parent languages as in 'cuneiform'
Or in other numerous and random exceptions such as 'science', 'forfeit', and 'weird'.
 
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It's discussed somewhere within an earlier update, but the short version is that the British didn't give enough of a damn about Somalia to fight the Italian and Ethiopian governments over the administration of the territories, so they overruled their own men on the ground (who strongly favored the incorporation of all ethnically Somali territories into one British Greater Somali Protectorate) and broke up the country. They still administered British Somaliland, though.
And at the same time, tossed it into the UN so now they're handling it.
 
There was some discussion earlier of a Somalian cosmonaut flying as part of the Intercosmos program, and as someone who knows a bit about the Soviet space program and can interpret Wikipedia usefully, I thought I might offer some advice about how that might come about. If you go look into the Intercosmos program's selections, you'll see that, basically, there were two "regular" selections of a number of cosmonauts from Communist countries, in 1976 and 1978, and then three "groups" that each consisted of two cosmonaut candidates from individual countries, which (given the state of the Soviet economy at the time and later events) makes me rather suspect that they were flown into space thanks to some kind of high-level deal between the Soviet and foreign governments. I know that this was certainly the case for Chrétin and Sharma, at least.

Now, it's conceivable that Somalia could make some kind of arrangement to fly a cosmonaut on a mission along similar lines to France or India, but I suspect that working through "regular" lines would probably work better for them, if for no other reason than it would be more likely that the Soviets would be trying to woo them than the other way around. Now, the first, 1976, selection only consisted of six cosmonauts from European countries, but the 1978 selection also included cosmonauts from Mongolia and Cuba, in an obvious effort to spread the geographical base a bit, and therefore if any African country was going to have cosmonauts selected into the Intercosmos program outside of a country-specific opportunity, it was going to be in 1978. As far as Somalia is concerned, though, this was a bit of a problem, for reasons you can doubtlessly see right away: when the cosmonauts were selected at the beginning of March, the Ogaden War was still raging, and, even worse, the Soviets had thrown their lot in with the Ethiopians. So neither the Ethiopians nor the Somalians were inclined or particularly able to run through the process of getting a cosmonaut selected, and anyway the latter were decidedly on the outs with the Soviets. However, if the Ogaden situation is resolved earlier, say in 1976 or early 1977, and the Soviets align towards Somalia instead of Ethiopia, then there is certainly a chance that Somalia can be part of the 1978 selection if it wants to.

So my recommendation is that two Somalian cosmonauts are selected to join the Intercosmos program in 1978 to represent Africa, as Mongolia represented Asia and Cuba represented the Americas. One of these cosmonauts is then launched either on Salyut 7 EP-2 (in 1982) or Salyut 7 EP-4 (in 1984), bumping Svetlana Savitskaya in either case (the Soviet space program was and remains notoriously misogynistic, so she's almost certainly going to be first on the chopping block). I favor the 1982 launch opportunity because it gives the Soviets the opportunity to boast about how they've launched African cosmonauts before the United States has--granted, they had that to some extent IOTL thanks to Arnaldo Méndez, but being of African descent is different, in propaganda terms, from being African or African-American. I'm not sure if Guion Bluford's flight on STS-8 was scheduled yet at that point, since STS-8 underwent a significant manifest change in May 1983 that may have put him on the crew list, but in any event NASA and the United States Air Force had inducted Bluford, Bolden, and other African-American astronauts in 1978, 1980, and 1982, so a flight of an African-American was obviously coming sooner or later, and by flying a Somalian in 1982 the Soviets can get out in front and win the propaganda thunder.

Most likely there is not another Somalian cosmonaut flight up to the present day, but I could see Somalia developing a satellite industry of some sort, most likely as a satellite operator than a satellite builder (lots of people have done that, there's a lower technical bar to entry). There would be obvious advantages to deploying satellites for communications purposes, particularly television distribution, for Somalia and the whole Horn and East African regions, and the cost barrier is comparatively low. Observation satellites might also be of some value for land-use investigation and similar purposes, but I suspect Somalia is more likely to arrange to acquire imagery from commercial or public sources than build its own observation satellite(s) due to their technical complexity and the difficulty of importing relevant technology due to their dual-purpose nature (another word for observation is spying...). It might be useful to look at the Indian space program for inspiration, since their general situation would likely be similar to Somalia in broad terms due to both countries being developing states. Of course, you have to factor in that India is much bigger and so had more resources in absolute terms even at similar relative levels of wealth, so Somalia is likely to have a less ambitious program. Launch, in particular, is not likely to be pursued by the Somalis nearly as quickly as it was by the Indians, since it's less strategically useful to them and it's also one of the hardest and most expensive parts of the enterprise.
 
@GoulashComrade

I'm voting Osmanya/Kaddare alphabet. I just like how uniquely Somalian it is. It's indigenous to Somalia and was created by the Somalian people. There's already too many countries which just use Latin or Cyrillic script and after a while it gets remarkably boring by a certain point. I don't understand how these countries could abandon something as essential to their culture as their script. Your orthography is a large part of your culture and I don't see how you can simply replace something that should be created by your own domestic population with some foreign script which doesn't accurately reflect the temperament and society of your own nation.

But what infuriates me even more is how many of these countries want a Latin or English script. Many of my friends often tell me that Egypt/Morocco/Syria/Libya/Iran/Somalia/etc. would be more successful and prosperous if they suddenly adopted Latin script or taught children in English. What they don't seem to understand is that there have been several massively successful countries which have not used Latin script for their languages nor have taught students in English such as Japan, Korea, and China. Furthermore, in the case of teaching kids in English, this won't stop somehow make the Middle East and Africa prosperous; it would only increase brain drain to other countries. Why would you seek employment in your own country or actually generate a movement to lower unemployment in your country when you can just go to the US or Britain and work there? It wouldn't solve their problems, it would only make them worse.
 
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