Oh man, what a clusterfuck. A german (or other intervention by another power) won't be able to fix the fundamental problem(s) of Russia, the living standards of those who do the work are simply to shitty. Less and less soldiers are willing to fight for a regime which does not promise to increase their living conditions. So even if Germany does put a monarch on the russian throne, the army would have to stay to keep him(or her) there. Have fun occupying like half of Russia while the people hate your guts. See France for how well that worked. Germany would bleed itself dry both economically as well as in manpower. Meanwhile a lot of neighboring countries who hate Germany would watch on with glee and wait for their chance of WW2.
Place In the Sun: What If Italy Joined the Central Powers? (1.0)
- Thread starter Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth
- Start date
I can't see Kornilov not betraying Kerensky soon or later; Poor Xenia.
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i have a funny feeling people in this timeline will have a much better opinion of ole nicky especially knowing the mans charisma. but damn this Russian republic is interesting though i see a scary future for Russia. i smell three way civil war between the Bolsheviks, republicans and royalists. i don't think this civil war will do well for Russia's ability to combat germany especially if they choose to prolong it
Hopefully the motherland can make it out intact (even if I think a permanently divided Russia would be an interesting scenario, a la A Day In July before the Soviet conquest of Siberia).
Probably not a warlord Era, but this is basicall a "Time of Troubles 2.0" which ripped apart Russia after the Rurukids died out. Now the government was taken over by incompetent but power hungry aristocrat (sort of like what the Boyars all tried to do with the Russian state decapitated following the death of Tsar Feodor I), said aristocrat was murdered by another group vying for power, and two monarchs were assassinated in the power plays for who ruled Russia.
The Russians are probably begging for days of Tsar Nicholas I who'd probably seem competent in comparison to the current mess about to start in Russia.
His status in the aftermath of what goes in Russia likely be akin to King Michael after Romania overthrew Ceausescu's regime. The Romanian government panicked during King Michael's return as huge crowds formed which began cheering him as news of his return spread throughout the country. Had Michael pressed the matter further he probably could have staged a popular self-coup and restored the monarchy similar to how Tsar Simeon used a wave of popularity to be elected as Bulgaria's PM.
I could see this nostalgia manifest into similar calls for Tsar Nicholas' reinstatement once the Royalists become in the all but inevitable civil war.
Unless the OP retcons it, Nicky seems to have washed his hands of Russia. They wanted him out, so he's out, and they can all burn for all he cares. Instead, he's going to stay with his cousin Willy, and those Germans who despite being enemies in the last war, actually treat him better and with more respect than his own former countrymen.
to be fair Nicky was a terrible Tsar so he can't blame Russia for not liking him very much but basically yeah
Point, but even then Nicky has no reason to trust the Russian monarchists anymore. I mean, he tried his hand at a restoration before Xenia became Tsarina, except the same monarchists who approached Nicky first then sided with Lvov over legal technicalities. And now they're running back to him...
...yeah, no. After everything he's been though, Nicky's not going to believe anything those people tell him. I'd be very surprised if he even decides to hear them out. As far as he's concerned, he's done with politics, he's done with Russia, and he's just fine as an exiled Grand Duke living on his cousin the German Emperor's hospitality.
Nicky is done, one of his daughthers thought might wish to try. Olga was by every account intelligent, charming and shrewd enought, so...
Kaiser has already told us their fates, so unless a retcon is in order, won't be happening.
Also, nice work on reaching a quarter million words!
- BNC
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Wow, what a series of responses! Thanks to everyone for reading+commenting...
With regards to German intervention, the effort required would be far more than a single division. While German arms could, say, lunge out of the United Baltic Duchy to conquer Petrograd, and then prop Grand Duke Alexander or one of the other Romanov claimants atop the throne that wouldn't stop the civil war. Kerensky would view it as a declaration of war... and then we essentially have a reopened Eastern Front,
As for Ukraine: we'll be seeing more from them shortly. Some are very in favour of seeking German aid; others wouldn't be caught dead doing so...
Thus, right now the most prominent claimant is: Prince Andrei Alexandrovich, born 1897. However, his father, Grand Duke Alexander, will play a key role in forthcoming events alongside his young son.
Poor Xenia indeed...
With regards to popular perception of Nicholas... it's not something I'd thought about but it does make sense! Michael and Xenia doubtless take some of the blame in the popular imagination and amongst historians for the fate of the Romanovs.
Tsar Nicholas I, between 1825 and 1855? That's a bloody golden age if ever there was one compared to the mess Russia's in now. Realistically, though, anything prior to the Russo-Japanese War seems idyllic compared to this mess. Many Russians, I'm sure, can't believe that was only fifteen years ago- it must seem like a lifetime away.
While Tsar Nicholas II might be able to garner some support for returning, it's not particularly likely for two reasons:
-The Constitution forbids a monarch who's abdicated from returning to power. Nicholas II coming back would flaunt the Constitution, which would open up another can of worms which no one's interested in doing.
-Nicholas himself isn't so keen on the idea. Ruling cost him his wife's life and his relationship with his family. It is, well, lonely at the top. Being in exile under the auspices of Cousin Willy is safer.
Thanks for all the comments everyone. I was apprehensive about how this chapter would be recieved and I'm glad you've enjoyed it!
This is largely true. Overthrowing the old system is relatively easy; what's harder is building a viable system to take its place. Yet Kerensky will have to do just that. Of course, his task is made easier by the fact that he's sitting atop a very broad coalition. OTL Provisional Government-style Republicans, Bolsheviks, disillusioned moderates, and even SRs are all united by their opposition to the Romanov regime.
With regards to German intervention, the effort required would be far more than a single division. While German arms could, say, lunge out of the United Baltic Duchy to conquer Petrograd, and then prop Grand Duke Alexander or one of the other Romanov claimants atop the throne that wouldn't stop the civil war. Kerensky would view it as a declaration of war... and then we essentially have a reopened Eastern Front,
As for Ukraine: we'll be seeing more from them shortly. Some are very in favour of seeking German aid; others wouldn't be caught dead doing so...
According to the Russian Constitution (the one adopted in OTL 1906 and amended by Tsar Michael ITTL), when an emperor dies, his (or indeed her!) firstborn son is at the top of the succession queue. Succession then passes through all the sons. Once they're all dead (or have refused the throne), it goes to the firstborn daughter, then the second-oldest daughter, etc.
Thus, right now the most prominent claimant is: Prince Andrei Alexandrovich, born 1897. However, his father, Grand Duke Alexander, will play a key role in forthcoming events alongside his young son.
A clusterfuck indeed. You are absolutely right about Germany being unable to fix Russia in the long term. Only a prolonged period of peace and sensible government could do that... which doesn't seem very likely. The most Berlin could do, as I said above, is to support a "Petrograd monarchy" on the border with the Eastern clients... but that would hurl Germany into de facto war with the Republicans, creating an intervention which would make Danubia or the Western occupation headaches look like a joke.
A military coup is a distinct possibility, yes... but what choice does Kerensky have? He needed someone on-side with plenty of guns and Kornilov was the best option.
Poor Xenia indeed...
Depending on how badly the two main parties fracture, that's certainly possible.
A three-way civil war would be a bloody disaster (and I mean 'bloody' pretty literally here). The damage done to Russia's warmaking capacity will depend, in large part, on just how long this war lasts (and the answer right now is: I don't know, I'm making it up as I go along, so ideas are very welcome.) A war which sees Kerensky at the gallows by the start of 1920 will be different from one which drags out till 1923 or 1924.
With regards to popular perception of Nicholas... it's not something I'd thought about but it does make sense! Michael and Xenia doubtless take some of the blame in the popular imagination and amongst historians for the fate of the Romanovs.
I like the idea of a "Second Time of Troubles"- I may work that name into the TL itself.
Tsar Nicholas I, between 1825 and 1855? That's a bloody golden age if ever there was one compared to the mess Russia's in now. Realistically, though, anything prior to the Russo-Japanese War seems idyllic compared to this mess. Many Russians, I'm sure, can't believe that was only fifteen years ago- it must seem like a lifetime away.
While Tsar Nicholas II might be able to garner some support for returning, it's not particularly likely for two reasons:
-The Constitution forbids a monarch who's abdicated from returning to power. Nicholas II coming back would flaunt the Constitution, which would open up another can of worms which no one's interested in doing.
-Nicholas himself isn't so keen on the idea. Ruling cost him his wife's life and his relationship with his family. It is, well, lonely at the top. Being in exile under the auspices of Cousin Willy is safer.
Right on both counts.
@Historymaster, what @BiteNibbleChomp said. None of the girls are interested in throwing their necks on the chopping-block. Besides, the late Xenia had many children, so there's actually a fair number of claimants to the Romanov throne....
Thanks for all the comments everyone. I was apprehensive about how this chapter would be recieved and I'm glad you've enjoyed it!
I wonder if Japan would attempt to annex all of Sakhalin/Karafuto during the Russian Civil War.
By the way, I have one thing in my mind. Is there any collabrotors in occupied France(or Burgundy as I still support my idea about it)? I expect some opportunistic people(power hungry mayor of a small city, some criminal who thinks collabrating will bring him money, etc) and some people from minorities that were pretty oppressed(if there is one) to join to German side.
Oh yeah. Plenty of people are willing to collaborate in ways big and small.
This ranges from tiny stuff like shopkeepers voluntarily giving Germans a steep discount to stay in their good books, to priests who preach about the need to obey Kaiser Wilhelm, to people who'll happily report their neighbours for saying something "seditious" in exchange for a couple of marks.
Considering the other Frances, German rule probably doesn't look so bad by rational comparison.
It isn't. It's explicitly stated that once the republicans started running to Africa, and the Commies had taken Paris, a lot of Frenchmen up and ran towards the closest border. It actually had Willy making one of his speeches, about how Frenchmen finally came to their senses and decided to bow before him, or something like that. Of course, the Belgian, German, Swiss, and Italian governments were more rational, and quickly set strict limitations on how many refugees would be allowed to cross their borders.
Not sure about the occupation zones, though...@Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth, do you mind clarifying? Did the refugee controls extend only over Germany/Italy proper, or does it also extend to their respective occupation zones in France?