Now is the Winter of Our Discontent
- Thread starter aurora01
- Start date
I’m glad, all tied up with this generation and ready to move onto the delights of our next one. Once I post our face cast and our family tree!
Well...let’s just say most of our monarchs ended up as having an irl counterpart as we moved along, for frame of reference to those new to the universe. Richard was our Henry VIII but worse! Much worse!
ITTL historians always bicker over what actually happened to Margaret, the broken heart was a legend that gained traction and most end up believing that she’d caught an infection that went south. The actual answer? She was definitely “helped”.
Aye...But who did the helping?
Personally, I think it may have been Henry himself. Maybe he knew more than he let anyone else know, or maybe, even if he really was innocent of any plotting, it was out of simple self preservation.
Either way, Margaret was too much of a loose cannon, and also she knew too much.
Indeed and perhaps it would have been a kinder ending than being tried and executed as a traitor, even if would be considered an open and shut case at this point...
Of course, it could also have been on the King's orders, because, when a traitor of noble status was found guilty, that person's children also fall under the shadow of treason, and lose their right to inherit the traitor's lands. So, Edward may have ordered it in order to protect Henry from the results of Margaret's trial and conviction...
XXII: Cast & Family Tree
Alright, we'll move onto the next generation presently who have their own...messes but here are some extras for you all!
"BBC Drama, White Roses Blooming (Part 1)
Edward V, King of England - Toby Regbo
Elizabeth Woodville, his mother - Samantha Morton
Richard, Duke of Gloucester, the Lord Protector - Rufus Sewell
Anne Neville, Duchess of Gloucester - Anna Maxwell-Martin
Anne of Brittany, later Queen Anne of England - Rose Williams
Elizabeth of York, Countess (later Duchess) of Richmond- Sophie Skelton
Richard, Duke of York - Finn Cole
Lady Elizabeth Hastings, later Duchess of York - Ellise Chappell
Henry Tudor, Earl (late Duke) of Richmond - Jacob Collins-Levy
Lady Margaret Beaufort, his mother - Helen McCrory
Thomas Stanley, Baron Stanley - Sir Who-We-Never-Got-Around-To-Casting
Lady Alice Stanley, Mistress to the King - Ellie Bamber"
House of Plantagenet, Family Tree circa 1508
Edward IV, King of England
m. Elizabeth Woodville
2. Katherine Tudor (b. 1491)
3. Edmund Tudor (b. 1493)
4. George Tudor (b. 1494)
5. Mary Tudor (b. 1500)
2. Mary of York, died young
3. Cecily of York, married to the Duke of Beja, had issue.
4. Edward V, King of England, married Anne of Brittany, had issue.
6. Richard, Duke of York, married Lady Elizabeth Hastings, had issue.
8. George, Duke of Bedford, died young
9. Catherine of York, married Philip of Burgundy, had issue
10. Bridget of York, Nun
George, Duke of Clarence
m. Isabel Neville
Richard, Duke of Gloucester, Lord Protector. (Died 1490)
m. Anne Neville
"BBC Drama, White Roses Blooming (Part 1)
Edward V, King of England - Toby Regbo
Elizabeth Woodville, his mother - Samantha Morton
Richard, Duke of Gloucester, the Lord Protector - Rufus Sewell
Anne Neville, Duchess of Gloucester - Anna Maxwell-Martin
Anne of Brittany, later Queen Anne of England - Rose Williams
Elizabeth of York, Countess (later Duchess) of Richmond- Sophie Skelton
Richard, Duke of York - Finn Cole
Lady Elizabeth Hastings, later Duchess of York - Ellise Chappell
Henry Tudor, Earl (late Duke) of Richmond - Jacob Collins-Levy
Lady Margaret Beaufort, his mother - Helen McCrory
Thomas Stanley, Baron Stanley - Sir Who-We-Never-Got-Around-To-Casting
Lady Alice Stanley, Mistress to the King - Ellie Bamber"
House of Plantagenet, Family Tree circa 1508
Edward IV, King of England
m. Elizabeth Woodville
- Elizabeth of York, married Henry Tudor, Duke of Richmond had issue
2. Katherine Tudor (b. 1491)
3. Edmund Tudor (b. 1493)
4. George Tudor (b. 1494)
5. Mary Tudor (b. 1500)
2. Mary of York, died young
3. Cecily of York, married to the Duke of Beja, had issue.
4. Edward V, King of England, married Anne of Brittany, had issue.
- Richard, Prince of Wales (b 1491)
- Lady Anne (b 1492)
- Lady Beatrice (b 1495)
- Edmund, Duke of Brittany (b 1499 - d. 1506)
- Edward
- Sarah
- Lord Edmund Fitzroy
6. Richard, Duke of York, married Lady Elizabeth Hastings, had issue.
- Philippa (b. 1493)
- Anthony (b. 1496 - d.1497)
- George (b. 1496 - d. 1500)
- Mary (b. 1498)
- Anne (b. 1501)
- Thomas (b. 1501 - d. 1515)
8. George, Duke of Bedford, died young
9. Catherine of York, married Philip of Burgundy, had issue
10. Bridget of York, Nun
George, Duke of Clarence
m. Isabel Neville
- Anne of Clarence, died young.
- Margaret of Clarence, married Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset, had issue.
- Edward of Warwick, married Isabel of Gloucester, had issue.
- Richard of Clarence, died young.
Richard, Duke of Gloucester, Lord Protector. (Died 1490)
m. Anne Neville
- Edward of Gloucester, died young.
- Isabel of Gloucester (b. 1486), married Edward of Warwick, had issue.
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Excellent work - I am very excited to put all these actors and actresses into Google and see how you visualise your characters!
One minor error. Little Anthony of York seems to be dying before he's even born. I suppose his lifespan is supposed to be 1496-1567? Or is it 1497, rather than 1467?
One minor error. Little Anthony of York seems to be dying before he's even born. I suppose his lifespan is supposed to be 1496-1567? Or is it 1497, rather than 1467?
Good catch! No unfortunately he died the same year he was born, cot death, Richard and Beth had awful luck with their boys...
Makes sense. The Duke of York title is always cursed. It has never once been inherited. Still, it is sad.
Yikes, really? You'd think the royals would stop using it!
Also, @aurora01, Nick Dunning for Thomas Stanley? He could totally pull off the Machiviellian feel of the man. Either him or Christopher Eccleston would be my pick for Lord Derby!
Do you mean upgraded?
Of course the Duchy doesn't have to replace the Earldom. It's merely an additional title that supersedes the comital one. The Dukes of Lancaster were originally also the Earls of Lancaster after all (plus Earl of Leicester, Derby, etc).
Robert Lindsay? Especially as he never gets to play Gloucester TTL.
Yep! Or the Duke of York becomes the King so the title returns to the crown anyway. That tradition continues ITTL, though as of 2019 it might actually pass on.
I like Christopher Eccleston! Though here is where I admit, I was always slightly too young for The Tudors when it originally aired haha...
Yes upgraded is technically what I meant, they did also get Pembroke back which will be Arthur’s title until Henry’s death. I may or may not be lovingly paying homage to my always slightly not quite right textbooks from school when I write the textbook bits so make of that what you will!
XXIII: Spring 1501
The next part is being worked on as we speak, though we'll probably have to title all the generations and sort that out eventually. In the meantime, here to bridge the gap as we pick up again in about 1509, have a glimpse of the Prince of Wales...
Spring 1501
There was an almighty roar from the nursery and the sound of crashing.
From the corridor, Elizabeth, Duchess of York winced. "Again?" She mouthed to her sister in law who stood beside her, as they'd made their way to visit the royal nursery together. Bess made an unimpressed face as they simply stood, breath held and waiting before another crashing sound came from the nursery.
"Your Royal Highness, if you could only..." came the carrying voice of the woman in charge of the royal nursery, but she was cut off by an imperious voice screaming "No! Won't!"
"In the name of Our Lord," Bess groaned, "Hal and I are hoping that he won't give Arthur any ideas,"
The royal nursery by now was heaving and finally at least had seemed to stop growing, it stung Beth more than a little that they'd seemed so unlucky with their sons. Their girls seemed to be as strong as houses, but their boys...well, little Thomas seemed so pale and sickly next to his twin sister, Anne. Beth had prayed often for the Lord to intervene...Thomas still...he was so small and pale.
There was another crashing sound and Beth winced.
"There'll be nothing left of the nursery if the Prince of Wales carries on," She murmured, "I know that Lady Neville has often written to the Queen asking to discipline the Prince of Wales more stringently so that he might learn to..."
"I can only imagine what my brother would say to that," Bess said wryly, "Laughter and that he is a future King who knows what he wants?"
Beth nodded, her lips pressed together which showed what she thought of that.
"Prince Richard is ten. Not two." Bess rolled her eyes.
"I'll be sending a prayer to Lady Neville," Beth remarked as the pair of them quietly slipped away together, determined not to be on the other end of a large temper tantrum...
Spring 1501
There was an almighty roar from the nursery and the sound of crashing.
From the corridor, Elizabeth, Duchess of York winced. "Again?" She mouthed to her sister in law who stood beside her, as they'd made their way to visit the royal nursery together. Bess made an unimpressed face as they simply stood, breath held and waiting before another crashing sound came from the nursery.
"Your Royal Highness, if you could only..." came the carrying voice of the woman in charge of the royal nursery, but she was cut off by an imperious voice screaming "No! Won't!"
"In the name of Our Lord," Bess groaned, "Hal and I are hoping that he won't give Arthur any ideas,"
The royal nursery by now was heaving and finally at least had seemed to stop growing, it stung Beth more than a little that they'd seemed so unlucky with their sons. Their girls seemed to be as strong as houses, but their boys...well, little Thomas seemed so pale and sickly next to his twin sister, Anne. Beth had prayed often for the Lord to intervene...Thomas still...he was so small and pale.
There was another crashing sound and Beth winced.
"There'll be nothing left of the nursery if the Prince of Wales carries on," She murmured, "I know that Lady Neville has often written to the Queen asking to discipline the Prince of Wales more stringently so that he might learn to..."
"I can only imagine what my brother would say to that," Bess said wryly, "Laughter and that he is a future King who knows what he wants?"
Beth nodded, her lips pressed together which showed what she thought of that.
"Prince Richard is ten. Not two." Bess rolled her eyes.
"I'll be sending a prayer to Lady Neville," Beth remarked as the pair of them quietly slipped away together, determined not to be on the other end of a large temper tantrum...
Hahaha 😂😂😂 Oh no! Richard is acting far younger than his age, isn't he?
Yep! Unfortunately the prayers for him to grow up...never quite seem to get there.
To be fair to young Richard, his parents are infantilising him. At ten, he ought to have been taken out of the governance of women and have been sent to Ludlow to learn how to rule long ago. Edward himself went at three, after all. If Edward and Anne insist on treating their heir like a baby, they can hardly be surprised when he acts like one. But then Edward is probably too caught up with his mistresses to pay any heed to that...
Precisely. It won't do anyone any help in the long run, Edward has mostly...kept himself out of the children's lives and treats Richard in an 'oh ho ho ho boys will be boys' sort of way. By this point Beth has asked Richard to intervene at least a few dozen times but Richard getting through to his brother...has not ended well. In minor defense of Anne, her health hasn't been the same since she had their last child and she assumes incorrectly that Edward has their Prince of Wales handled. The two people who could have potentially made Edward see sense are unfortunately long dead.
Richard does eventually go to Ludlow though, but it's not for a couple of years after this incident and when his bride is on her way.