I love these two together ❤️ Also, two bastards already? Edward's not wasting any time, is he?
Now is the Winter of Our Discontent
- Thread starter aurora01
- Start date
They do make a very sweet couple, one of my favourite parts of the slight edits to our timeline. Some things got a little off track with the writers in question, so we’ve adjusted for things making slightly more logical sense. Some things we’re still debating, we never had solid plans for Richard and I think he needed a Beth,
Edward’s a bit of a chip off the old block, though he will look a little...better historically given the next King but amusingly he and Richard both end up with a large amount of children (Edward with seven and Richard with six). Richard’s are all with Beth, Edward’s...not all with Anne but they do begin the Plantagenet trend of large families. Unfortunately, not all make it past infancy.
No, his father started that trend. Edward IV had ten with Elizabeth Woodville, IIRC. Elizabeth, Mary (died as a teenager), Cecily, Edward, Richard, George (died as a baby) , Anne, Katherine and Bridget. I think I've got the names right..
But I take your point, and if you'd ever like to bounce ideas off me, feel free to message. I like brainstorming!
I mean ITTL, they keep it going
Or at least give the Plantagenets breeding like rabbits rumours some precedence.I may take you up on that offer, we are sorting out our thoughts for the next generation right now. Depends how far we end up going, we know what happens ITTL more or less to 2020.
"It was with great ceremony that Edward V married Anne of Brittany in Westminster Abbey only a short few weeks after her arrival in England, Edward had spared no expense in welcoming her and it was much hoped that before long a Prince of Wales would be squalling in the royal nursery. Edward certainly had proven himself capable, though few knew of that. Close inspection of Edward's accounts revealed him to have been a frequent visitor of a certain woman in London known for her talents in entertaining, with bequests to the lady for 'my children natural born'. In his will, we find mention of an Edward and Sarah, children of the aforementioned lady. It is debated whether Edward visited the children but he certainly provided for them,"
- The Many Loves of Edward V, BBC Documentary
"The Countess of Richmond returned home following the wedding, not long after, she wrote to London with news of her second pregnancy. Something certainly had bloomed between Henry and Elizabeth in the time they had been married and there has been much speculation as why events unfolded the way they did. One thing is for certain, Elizabeth had a hand in the way events unfolded.
Behind the happy veneer of the royal wedding, there was a powder keg about to explode and it exploded in terrible fashion."
- Edward V by Dr Natalie Bower
- The Many Loves of Edward V, BBC Documentary
"The Countess of Richmond returned home following the wedding, not long after, she wrote to London with news of her second pregnancy. Something certainly had bloomed between Henry and Elizabeth in the time they had been married and there has been much speculation as why events unfolded the way they did. One thing is for certain, Elizabeth had a hand in the way events unfolded.
Behind the happy veneer of the royal wedding, there was a powder keg about to explode and it exploded in terrible fashion."
- Edward V by Dr Natalie Bower
Oooh! This is getting good.
Also Sarah. Beautiful, unconventional name for a girl of the period. I love it!
Also Sarah. Beautiful, unconventional name for a girl of the period. I love it!
XIII: 1489
"Act I, Scene V
Enter GLOUCESTER and ELIZABETH, LADY MARGARET and attendants.
ELIZABETH: My Lord, they say that you dishonor me.
GLOUCESTER: I would not dishonor a lady but thou hast no honor to be dishonored by.
ELIZABETH: How so do you proclaim this to be, My Lord? I was Queen of fair England, Queen of the May to our much loved King. Now he is with God, I am mother to our fair and honorable King. Thine own nephew who holds you in great countenance. I ask again My Lord, pray tell me what I have done to be so dishonored?
GLOUCESTER: You call yourself mine own sister and I would say so.
ELIZABETH: Why would you not say so? I am thine own sister, married to thy brother and crowned as God hath ordained.
GLOUCESTER: And yet, in front of all these people I will ask you again. There was a maid named Eleanor Butler whom it is said my brother loved and would have made his bride, it is said in some circles that he indeed hath made her his bride.
ELIZABETH: Silence, you speak too loosely of falsehoods as though they were true.
GLOUCESTER: Do I speak any lies? Tell me Madam, are you indeed my sister?
LADY MARGARET: (aside to audience) Can this be true? Does he really mean to say such a thing? To my son in the North I will write, if people do so talk then the King is not the King and as God himself intended, I will see my boy upon the throne at last."
- from Edward V Part 1 by William Shakespeare
Enter GLOUCESTER and ELIZABETH, LADY MARGARET and attendants.
ELIZABETH: My Lord, they say that you dishonor me.
GLOUCESTER: I would not dishonor a lady but thou hast no honor to be dishonored by.
ELIZABETH: How so do you proclaim this to be, My Lord? I was Queen of fair England, Queen of the May to our much loved King. Now he is with God, I am mother to our fair and honorable King. Thine own nephew who holds you in great countenance. I ask again My Lord, pray tell me what I have done to be so dishonored?
GLOUCESTER: You call yourself mine own sister and I would say so.
ELIZABETH: Why would you not say so? I am thine own sister, married to thy brother and crowned as God hath ordained.
GLOUCESTER: And yet, in front of all these people I will ask you again. There was a maid named Eleanor Butler whom it is said my brother loved and would have made his bride, it is said in some circles that he indeed hath made her his bride.
ELIZABETH: Silence, you speak too loosely of falsehoods as though they were true.
GLOUCESTER: Do I speak any lies? Tell me Madam, are you indeed my sister?
LADY MARGARET: (aside to audience) Can this be true? Does he really mean to say such a thing? To my son in the North I will write, if people do so talk then the King is not the King and as God himself intended, I will see my boy upon the throne at last."
- from Edward V Part 1 by William Shakespeare
Sulking in a corner would be a good term for it, though it isn't the last that we've seen of his line...
XIV: November 1489
November 1489
Bess had woken at the sound of hooves.
She pushed herself upwards, glad for the small curve of her belly and that she wasn't yet as large as she was with Arthur. Her bed was empty, their bed as she had come to think of it. Hal so often slept beside her that it was difficult to think of the bedchambers and the bed as anything but theirs. She blinked, her eyes adjusting to the dim lighting and there in the corner of the room by candle was Hal, studying a letter and frowning intently.
"Hal?" Bess called out, "Is all well?"
Hal turned to her, trying to hide the seriousness of his face with a false smile. "It's fine Bess, really go back to sleep,"
"Then why do you look so worried, love?" Bess frowned as she slipped out of bed, padding across the room towards him. "What in God's name is it?"
They stared at each other for a beat, Bess' eyes searching his face before Hal's face at last softened, "It's my Mother, she sent a message from Westminister,"
"Why? Is Lady Margaret not well?"
"Bess..." Hal sighed, "It's your Uncle and your mother, they've fought again but it's been a terrible one this time. In front of many witnesses he made insinuations about her marriage and -,"
"Uncle Richard?" Bess frowned, "But what sort? Why would he do such a thing? Hasn't he taken good care of Ned all of these years, I know he and Mother haven't exactly been cordial but they both love Ned and -,"
"Bess, he asked her if she truly was his sister and implied that he married Lady Butler instead which would make you and your siblings -,"
"Bastards," Bess answered flatly. "If Father had already been married, then I would be a bastard as would my siblings and Ned would not by rights sit the throne,"
Hal nodded and Bess studied his face intently, searching for something that she hoped would not be there.
"Hal, I know there have been whispers of a gathering in the North even if they haven't been paying attention in London with the wedding. Please tell me that you're not thinking of..." Bess trailed off unable to finish it.
"Bess," Hal gave her a soft, tender look.
"Is that what your Mother has asked you to do?" Bess asked quietly, "Has she asked you to try and lead them? Against my family? Is that what she wants? Is that what you want?"
"What do you suggest I do Bess?" Henry asked, tearing his gaze from her towards the window.
"You know what I would say," Bess answered, as she reached for his hand and held it with her own. Then between them, for a long time - there was only silence.
Bess had woken at the sound of hooves.
She pushed herself upwards, glad for the small curve of her belly and that she wasn't yet as large as she was with Arthur. Her bed was empty, their bed as she had come to think of it. Hal so often slept beside her that it was difficult to think of the bedchambers and the bed as anything but theirs. She blinked, her eyes adjusting to the dim lighting and there in the corner of the room by candle was Hal, studying a letter and frowning intently.
"Hal?" Bess called out, "Is all well?"
Hal turned to her, trying to hide the seriousness of his face with a false smile. "It's fine Bess, really go back to sleep,"
"Then why do you look so worried, love?" Bess frowned as she slipped out of bed, padding across the room towards him. "What in God's name is it?"
They stared at each other for a beat, Bess' eyes searching his face before Hal's face at last softened, "It's my Mother, she sent a message from Westminister,"
"Why? Is Lady Margaret not well?"
"Bess..." Hal sighed, "It's your Uncle and your mother, they've fought again but it's been a terrible one this time. In front of many witnesses he made insinuations about her marriage and -,"
"Uncle Richard?" Bess frowned, "But what sort? Why would he do such a thing? Hasn't he taken good care of Ned all of these years, I know he and Mother haven't exactly been cordial but they both love Ned and -,"
"Bess, he asked her if she truly was his sister and implied that he married Lady Butler instead which would make you and your siblings -,"
"Bastards," Bess answered flatly. "If Father had already been married, then I would be a bastard as would my siblings and Ned would not by rights sit the throne,"
Hal nodded and Bess studied his face intently, searching for something that she hoped would not be there.
"Hal, I know there have been whispers of a gathering in the North even if they haven't been paying attention in London with the wedding. Please tell me that you're not thinking of..." Bess trailed off unable to finish it.
"Bess," Hal gave her a soft, tender look.
"Is that what your Mother has asked you to do?" Bess asked quietly, "Has she asked you to try and lead them? Against my family? Is that what she wants? Is that what you want?"
"What do you suggest I do Bess?" Henry asked, tearing his gaze from her towards the window.
"You know what I would say," Bess answered, as she reached for his hand and held it with her own. Then between them, for a long time - there was only silence.
XV: 1489
"Beth,
I know tomorrow was to be our wedding day and we will be married as soon as I return home. If you haven't heard the news by now, the North has risen and Ned has sent Uncle Richard to deal with it. I suspect Ned is upset about what he heard our Uncle say about our mother and is making him prove his loyalty again. I am to ride alongside our Uncle, hopefully the rebels will be but down quickly and I will return to you.
Yours,
Richard."
- Excerpt from a letter by Richard, Duke of York.
"Uncle and Nephew held the charge, determined to put down the rebels at all costs. A skirmish between the loyalists and the rebels occurred close in Aldfield, near Fountains Abbey, North Yorkshire. What happened there no one could have expected."
- Edward V by Dr Natalie Bower
"Ned,
He is dead. They killed him, our Uncle Richard. We tried to take his body but the rebels have taken it from us, tell Aunt Anne that I will not rest until I can send him home to her.
I will quash this rebellion for you brother, for you and our Uncle,"
- Excerpt from a letter by Richard, Duke of York
I know tomorrow was to be our wedding day and we will be married as soon as I return home. If you haven't heard the news by now, the North has risen and Ned has sent Uncle Richard to deal with it. I suspect Ned is upset about what he heard our Uncle say about our mother and is making him prove his loyalty again. I am to ride alongside our Uncle, hopefully the rebels will be but down quickly and I will return to you.
Yours,
Richard."
- Excerpt from a letter by Richard, Duke of York.
"Uncle and Nephew held the charge, determined to put down the rebels at all costs. A skirmish between the loyalists and the rebels occurred close in Aldfield, near Fountains Abbey, North Yorkshire. What happened there no one could have expected."
- Edward V by Dr Natalie Bower
"Ned,
He is dead. They killed him, our Uncle Richard. We tried to take his body but the rebels have taken it from us, tell Aunt Anne that I will not rest until I can send him home to her.
I will quash this rebellion for you brother, for you and our Uncle,"
- Excerpt from a letter by Richard, Duke of York
Sad chapter, but it's nice to see the York boys still treasure their uncle and wish to avenge him, despite his public falling-out with their mother...
Looking forward to Beth and Richard marrying!
Looking forward to Beth and Richard marrying!
Well dying heroically to prevent an uprising does soften their opinion towards you and Richard did serve as Lord Protector and an almost father figure to Edward. So I do think there was a lot of love between them in this universe. He does end up considered somewhat of a heroic figure in England’s history because of all of this and a lot of Kings get named for him. At our modern day count, we’re up to Richard IX.
Richard and Beth will get married! Just a couple of months behind their original plans.
XVI: December 1489
December 1489
The court had almost instantly been wrapped in mourning black.
From her place in the Queen’s household, Beth had watched the events unfold. The King had taken to his chambers in grief and it had been left to one person to step up in his absence. The new Queen.
Beth had crossed her fingers for her future sister in law, but it turned out that she needn’t have worried. Anne had stepped up with a calm and dignified air as she dispatched orders from her chambers with the authority of a true Queen.
“I have written personally to the Duchess of Gloucester to express my sorrow,” Anne said as she passed the letter to Beth. “And to let her know if there’s anything that she has need of or the Lady Isabel then she is to let me know and I will handle it personally. If you could see that a messenger rides out with it at once Beth?”
“Yes, Your Majesty,” Beth dipped into a curtsey before pausing “Do you wish me to call on the King for you?”
Anne have Beth a wry smile, “I have no doubt that he has called on Lady Alice for comfort and I should not wish to disturb him in his hour of need,”
“Of course, Your Majesty,” Beth said, turning to go.
“Beth?”
She turned back seeing Anne looking at her with a soft smile.
“I am sure your Richard will return to us in triumph soon enough,”
Beth flushed and dipped again, lower this time. A gesture that she could only hope showed her thanks.
As she began her walk out into the corridors, she found herself being matched step for step by Lady Margaret of Clarence.
“Meg?” Beth asked, knowing when the other girl wanted to tell her something.
“She hasn’t bled since the wedding!” Meg blurted out in a hushed whisper.
“Are you sure?” Beth hissed back, glancing around to see if they’d been overheard.
“I am, I know it’s only been a few weeks but...”
“It might be a sign,” Beth murmured as she hurried on, even more determined to deliver a message now. Perhaps some good might come out of all of this.
The court had almost instantly been wrapped in mourning black.
From her place in the Queen’s household, Beth had watched the events unfold. The King had taken to his chambers in grief and it had been left to one person to step up in his absence. The new Queen.
Beth had crossed her fingers for her future sister in law, but it turned out that she needn’t have worried. Anne had stepped up with a calm and dignified air as she dispatched orders from her chambers with the authority of a true Queen.
“I have written personally to the Duchess of Gloucester to express my sorrow,” Anne said as she passed the letter to Beth. “And to let her know if there’s anything that she has need of or the Lady Isabel then she is to let me know and I will handle it personally. If you could see that a messenger rides out with it at once Beth?”
“Yes, Your Majesty,” Beth dipped into a curtsey before pausing “Do you wish me to call on the King for you?”
Anne have Beth a wry smile, “I have no doubt that he has called on Lady Alice for comfort and I should not wish to disturb him in his hour of need,”
“Of course, Your Majesty,” Beth said, turning to go.
“Beth?”
She turned back seeing Anne looking at her with a soft smile.
“I am sure your Richard will return to us in triumph soon enough,”
Beth flushed and dipped again, lower this time. A gesture that she could only hope showed her thanks.
As she began her walk out into the corridors, she found herself being matched step for step by Lady Margaret of Clarence.
“Meg?” Beth asked, knowing when the other girl wanted to tell her something.
“She hasn’t bled since the wedding!” Meg blurted out in a hushed whisper.
“Are you sure?” Beth hissed back, glancing around to see if they’d been overheard.
“I am, I know it’s only been a few weeks but...”
“It might be a sign,” Beth murmured as she hurried on, even more determined to deliver a message now. Perhaps some good might come out of all of this.
XVII: 1490
“Our records of the mourning period for Richard, Duke of Gloucester at this time have been lost. Destroyed by the days of Queen Caroline and all that came later. We know that Anne Neville remained at her estates, taking dutiful care of her daughter. Though her two wards, her sister Isabel’s children, by now had arrived at court. Margaret of Clarence had taken up a position in Queen Anne’s household and was rapidly become one of her chief confidants.
The King himself seemed fond enough of his new bride, he did his duty and Anne stepped up in his grief. It was Alice Stanley, his current mistress he turned to for comfort, in weeks he barely left her side.
It wasn’t too much of a shock as winter continued that Alice Stanley’s belly began to swell.
What became difficult was a few short weeks later, the Queen announced her first pregnancy,”
-Dr Natalie Bower, Edward V
“In the North, Richard, Duke of York struggled against the rebels without the aid of his older and more experienced Uncle. He wrote devotedly almost every day to his future wife, then the Lady Elizabeth Hastings. He did not hide the truth from her, feeling that things were bleak and that the King himself might be forced to come north to flatten the rebellion once and for all.
Then on a cold winter day, aid came to Richard’s side. Not sent by the crown, but a man on horseback leading men of his lands having rallied support. The man was not one people expected to have come, much less with aid for the crown.
In fact, he had been so quiet that some suspected he had a hand in the rebellion. For having ridden to the side of his brother in law was Henry Tudor,”
-White Roses, BBC Documentary
The King himself seemed fond enough of his new bride, he did his duty and Anne stepped up in his grief. It was Alice Stanley, his current mistress he turned to for comfort, in weeks he barely left her side.
It wasn’t too much of a shock as winter continued that Alice Stanley’s belly began to swell.
What became difficult was a few short weeks later, the Queen announced her first pregnancy,”
-Dr Natalie Bower, Edward V
“In the North, Richard, Duke of York struggled against the rebels without the aid of his older and more experienced Uncle. He wrote devotedly almost every day to his future wife, then the Lady Elizabeth Hastings. He did not hide the truth from her, feeling that things were bleak and that the King himself might be forced to come north to flatten the rebellion once and for all.
Then on a cold winter day, aid came to Richard’s side. Not sent by the crown, but a man on horseback leading men of his lands having rallied support. The man was not one people expected to have come, much less with aid for the crown.
In fact, he had been so quiet that some suspected he had a hand in the rebellion. For having ridden to the side of his brother in law was Henry Tudor,”
-White Roses, BBC Documentary