Map Thread XXI

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As a result, Delhi is not in the midst of a succession crisis when Timur is looking for his next empire to sack
HURRAH!
acking Aleppo, Damascus, and even Ankara. After years of conquest, Constantinople is sacked as well—spelling the end for both the Ottoman and Byzantine Empires
NOOOOO!
Aboard steamships, carrying rifles and eventually machine guns, Indians would expand to places they’d never been able to before. No one can stand in the way of Indian imperialism, which washes across the globe like a tidal wave.
I'm not sure how realistic this is, TBH, but I like it. I've found the idea of an Indo-centric globalization-by-gunboats process to the fascinating for some time. This has a much later POD than most attempts at derailing European hegemony, but I like how much you were able to use well reasoned through butterfly effect.

Will you be doing a world map?
 
HURRAH!

NOOOOO!

I'm not sure how realistic this is, TBH, but I like it. I've found the idea of an Indo-centric globalization-by-gunboats process to the fascinating for some time. This has a much later POD than most attempts at derailing European hegemony, but I like how much you were able to use well reasoned through butterfly effect.

Will you be doing a world map?
Thanks!

Also, that's true, probably not the most realistic of ideas. Historians are debating these days a whole lot about when exactly Europe was set on its course of world domination, with some saying early 1400s and others saying they weren't really ahead of the rest of the world until the industrial revolution. The ideas of this map are based a lot on Prasannan Parthasarathi's Why Europe Grew Rich and Asia Did Not, which argues circumstances that happened to work out in Western Europe's favor were decisive. I tried to swap the circumstances to be in India's favor for this map, and after all India was pretty rich for a long time (indigenous cotton industry was the greatest in the world, Indian states were the richest, the Indians invented steel in 300 BC) until England took over politically, at which point it stopped growing.

And yep! I'm typing out the description for the worldmap now.
 
Quick post--there's more down the pipeline including a full worlda map, political and religious, but I wanted to get this out there.

BHARATA: THE CENTER OF THE WORLD IN THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION

HISTORY

1389: Sultan Tughluq Khan of Delhi catches wind of the plot to assassinate him and has the conspirators executed. As a result, Delhi is not in the midst of a succession crisis when Timur is looking for his next empire to sack. Instead, the great conqueror launches his invasion of the Levant (a few years earlier than OTL), sacking Aleppo, Damascus, and even Ankara. After years of conquest, Constantinople is sacked as well—spelling the end for both the Ottoman and Byzantine Empires. Timur dies in 1402 from illness, though his successors are just as destructive and nearly sack Rome as well, leaving much of south-eastern Europe in ashes.

Delhi, however, has been spared Timur’s wrath. It lives onward as a great city, driving scientific progress in the region. Without a strong power in the Middle East, the Mediterranean kingdoms get a better deal on spice trades with India—at the cost of ongoing crusades which distract them from any possible expansion westward.

The Delhi Sultanate, while lasting longer, does not dominate the entire continent. Competition between Delhi, the Sultanate of Bengal, and the Vijayanagara Empire in the south. Competition drives innovation: gunpowder and matchlocks, lateen sailed ships, and star fortresses are widespread earlier.

The Tamil Empire, closed out of European markets by deals between Vijayanagara and Palermo, looks for alternative routes to the European markets. Traders round the horn of Africa in 1504, soon selling its spices directly to the Europeans. There’s a bigger market, however: China. With the Malay Empire’s prohibitive trade taxes, Tamil explorers daringly cross the Atlantic to get a direct route. Instead, they find the New World. Diseases wreak havoc on the indigenous empires. The Inka are conquered by the Tamils, while the Aztecs are conquered by Vijayanagara.

Other Indian states hope to replicate the success of the southerners, most successfully Bengal and Gujarat. Colonies expand rapidly as people search for new work and gold. African slave labor is used extensively in the equatorial sugar plantations and mines, once indigenous people collapse from disease.

The Vijayanagara, perhaps overextended, perhaps because of overinflation, does collapse at the hands of its enemies. The balance of power is broken and war breaks out across the whole of India, chiefly between the Muslim powers of the north (Delhi, Gujarat, and Bangla) and the Dharmic powers of the south (Telangana, Marhatta, and Tamil). These religious wars drives religious radicalism, state centralization, and institutionalization. Its end comes as Sikhs rebel in Delhi, defeating the sultanate.

While a new status quo has emerged, the balance of power is not unchanging. Deforestation has driven innovation: coal is a growing source of energy, driving the invention of steam engines. First Bengal industrializes, followed by Telangana and the Tamils.

Meanwhile, the religious wars, with their increased contact with those of different religions and cultures, gives rise to nationalism. Supported by kings (a few of whom are elected by elites) who hope to govern more pliable populations, national identities starken the divide between in-groups and out-groups. Followed soon afterward by racial science, the northern Aryan-Muslim half of the subcontinent and the southern Dravidian-Dharmic half begin to see themselves in eternal opposition to each other. (The reality, of course, is much more nuanced.)

Industrialization, of course, brings greater capacity for expansion. Aboard steamships, carrying rifles and eventually machine guns, Indians would expand to places they’d never been able to before. No one can stand in the way of Indian imperialism, which washes across the globe like a tidal wave.

STATES:

  • Sikh Empire: despite ruling over a diverse population, the Sikhs are repeating the mistakes of the OTL Mughal Empire. Once tolerant and open, the maharajas have begun a program of Sikh dominance. While this has increased conversions, the majority Muslim population has grown resentful, especially considering the ongoing war with the Parsees Empire.
  • Hindia: a powerful confederation, where Muslims and Dharmists share power in the name of common nationality and culture. Mass-based politics has arrived, with the Hindi (language, not religion) nationalist party coming to dominance at the cost of many minorities. They hope to carve out an empire of their own, but are surrounded on all sides by powerful enemies.
  • Bangla Sultanate: an imperial sultanate that has recently shrugged off its Turko-Persian façade and embraced Bengali culture. The textile manufacturing capital of the world, Bangla is one of the richest states, and uses its rotary-guns and steamships in the name of “free” trade and protecting Muslims worldwide. Its greatest rival is the Tamil Empire, who its hopes to overturn once and for all in a decisive war.
  • Gujarat Sultanate: the sultan here has less power and is more Persian than in Bangla. With the most advanced financial institutions in the world, Gujarat has been able to fund wars better than anyone. However, financiers and capitalists have insisted on reforms, pressing for the sultan to be restricted within the bounds of the hierarchical caste-based councils. Nervous about Marhatta’s expansion, it may soon intervene, but is looking for allies for help.
  • Utkala: one of the newest states, Utkala was created from dozens of princely states in a Telangana-Bangla treaty. While dominated by Bengal, it does have its own unique institutions: chiefly, a massive council of elected and dynastic leaders from all its constituent entities.
  • Marhatta: with an origin in revolution against imperial powers, Marhatta has embraced its Dharmic Marathi identity at the cost of rights for its minorities. It aims to incorporate all Marathis into its state, at the cost of its neighbors. Public practice of Islam is strictly outlawed, and all Muslims face heavy taxes. Dravidians, too, are objects of suspicion and legal harassment.
  • Telangana: governed by an alliance between a hereditary monarchy and the industrial elite, Telangana hopes to restrict the social progress erupting across its neighbors. The lack of popular support for the monarchy has led to its poor performance during a decisive war with Marhatta, which aims to seize its empire and annex Marathi territories and will likely succeed.
  • Karnata: once the heart of the great Vijayanagara Empire, Karnata sought to revitalize its empire with nationalism, though is still in decline. Nevertheless, it is perhaps the cultural heart of the world. Its particular brand of the Eternal Dharma (Hinduism), which focuses on Shiva, has been spread across the world, while the impact of reformist Lingayatism has led to greater flexibility in caste across India. With its own Marathi minorities, Karnata is looking for allies to restrict Marhatta’s expansion.
  • Tamil Confederacy: a confederation of Tamil and Sinhala states, this empire elects its king from the foremost princes. Sri Lanka, like OTL Ireland, is facing both cultural absorption and repression—though for the past 100 years Buddhism has been enshrined as the religion of state, the product of a spiritual revolution. Followers of the Eternal Dharma, especially in the tributary states, don’t like this in the least. Nevertheless, the Tamil navy is the strongest in the world, combining steam technology and advanced steelmaking, and its empire is the dominant world hegemon.
View attachment 721401
Oh this is pretty cool. Really rare to see Indian-focused AH.

What happened to Nepal?
 
1645680405712.png

you know, i have no clue where my brain got this dumb idea from, but it started with a swedish congo
 
And yep! I'm typing out the description for the worldmap now.
Wonderful to hear!

One of the first things I tried to do as a mapmaker was make an Indocentric world, but I lost track of the ideas and tried again, got farther and ultimately had similar results. It didn't help that I didn't know nearly enough about Indian history to do it. If I recall correctly, it involved Rome falling harder and earlier and China being splintered more so India dodged some invasions, and got others instead. The Turks wound up in India; *Byzantium went *Communist but held Libya with *Gujarati help. Poland conquered Siberia but was then carved into by the Indian powers who took out spheres of influence. I think I still have a document somewhere... but I look forward to seeing your map which will be rather more realistic, rather more coherent, and rather more aesthetic than my earliest efforts.
with a swedish congo
I have many questions...

In light of various claims to be Rome's successor, I thought this might be an interesting thing to throw together.
1645700754930.png
 
[50+ Likes] The Soviet Union and its Satellite Countries in 1962 and 1972, by Kruglyasheo
0ohZ4qZ.png
Aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis based on the 1959 declassified list of US nuclear targets and the approximate population density of the USSR in those years. As far as I understand, the increase in the US nuclear arsenal in 1959-1962 did not change the number of targets much, just more warheads were allocated to each target.
It wasn't intended to be particularly realistic, and I drew it mainly because this kind of pixel art is actually quite a meditative thing and sort of reduced my anxiety. But now, well...
Edit: fixed Saxony and Thüringia.​
 
Last edited:
cHSw4v3.png
Aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis based on the 1959 declassified list of US nuclear targets and the approximate population density of the USSR in those years. As far as I understand, the increase in the US nuclear arsenal in 1959-1962 did not change the number of targets much, just more warheads were allocated to each target.
It wasn't intended to be particularly realistic, and I drew it mainly because this kind of pixel art is actually quite a meditative thing and sort of reduced my anxiety. But now, well...​

Saxony and Thüringia should be other way around. (The names, the flags match with the colour/map).
 
0ohZ4qZ.png
Aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis based on the 1959 declassified list of US nuclear targets and the approximate population density of the USSR in those years. As far as I understand, the increase in the US nuclear arsenal in 1959-1962 did not change the number of targets much, just more warheads were allocated to each target.
It wasn't intended to be particularly realistic, and I drew it mainly because this kind of pixel art is actually quite a meditative thing and sort of reduced my anxiety. But now, well...
Edit: fixed Saxony and Thüringia.​

Mongolia: My time to shine!

Pretty interesting map in the Chinese sense. I can only wonder what about 20, or so years more things will look like and who would come out on top.
 
I’m not even sure what the POD is. MacAurthers plan was approved? A more hardline Soviet takes control after Stalins death? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
BD15C3D9-E41B-4574-BA1C-8B516FD57DEF.jpeg

Without province lines
F4283BBD-392C-486E-ADE8-E518B36FAAED.jpeg

With province lines
 
States under the Azharid Qaisaranate of Rumanyan, by Nizam

States under the Azharid Qaisaranate of Rumanyan​

rumanyan.png

Basically some majority Muslim empire that decentralized into several independent states all in a sort of economic/military union lead by a constitutional monarch.
 
Bharata is the World (part 2) by wildviper121
Quick post--there's more down the pipeline including a full worlda map, political and religious, but I wanted to get this out there.

BHARATA: THE CENTER OF THE WORLD IN THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION

HISTORY

1389: Sultan Tughluq Khan of Delhi catches wind of the plot to assassinate him and has the conspirators executed. As a result, Delhi is not in the midst of a succession crisis when Timur is looking for his next empire to sack. Instead, the great conqueror launches his invasion of the Levant (a few years earlier than OTL), sacking Aleppo, Damascus, and even Ankara. After years of conquest, Constantinople is sacked as well—spelling the end for both the Ottoman and Byzantine Empires. Timur dies in 1402 from illness, though his successors are just as destructive and nearly sack Rome as well, leaving much of south-eastern Europe in ashes.

Delhi, however, has been spared Timur’s wrath. It lives onward as a great city, driving scientific progress in the region. Without a strong power in the Middle East, the Mediterranean kingdoms get a better deal on spice trades with India—at the cost of ongoing crusades which distract them from any possible expansion westward.

The Delhi Sultanate, while lasting longer, does not dominate the entire continent. Competition between Delhi, the Sultanate of Bengal, and the Vijayanagara Empire in the south. Competition drives innovation: gunpowder and matchlocks, lateen sailed ships, and star fortresses are widespread earlier.

The Tamil Empire, closed out of European markets by deals between Vijayanagara and Palermo, looks for alternative routes to the European markets. Traders round the horn of Africa in 1504, soon selling its spices directly to the Europeans. There’s a bigger market, however: China. With the Malay Empire’s prohibitive trade taxes, Tamil explorers daringly cross the Atlantic to get a direct route. Instead, they find the New World. Diseases wreak havoc on the indigenous empires. The Inka are conquered by the Tamils, while the Aztecs are conquered by Vijayanagara.

Other Indian states hope to replicate the success of the southerners, most successfully Bengal and Gujarat. Colonies expand rapidly as people search for new work and gold. African slave labor is used extensively in the equatorial sugar plantations and mines, once indigenous people collapse from disease.

The Vijayanagara, perhaps overextended, perhaps because of overinflation, does collapse at the hands of its enemies. The balance of power is broken and war breaks out across the whole of India, chiefly between the Muslim powers of the north (Delhi, Gujarat, and Bangla) and the Dharmic powers of the south (Telangana, Marhatta, and Tamil). These religious wars drives religious radicalism, state centralization, and institutionalization. Its end comes as Sikhs rebel in Delhi, defeating the sultanate.

While a new status quo has emerged, the balance of power is not unchanging. Deforestation has driven innovation: coal is a growing source of energy, driving the invention of steam engines. First Bengal industrializes, followed by Telangana and the Tamils.

Meanwhile, the religious wars, with their increased contact with those of different religions and cultures, gives rise to nationalism. Supported by kings (a few of whom are elected by elites) who hope to govern more pliable populations, national identities starken the divide between in-groups and out-groups. Followed soon afterward by racial science, the northern Aryan-Muslim half of the subcontinent and the southern Dravidian-Dharmic half begin to see themselves in eternal opposition to each other. (The reality, of course, is much more nuanced.)

Industrialization, of course, brings greater capacity for expansion. Aboard steamships, carrying rifles and eventually machine guns, Indians would expand to places they’d never been able to before. No one can stand in the way of Indian imperialism, which washes across the globe like a tidal wave.

STATES:

  • Sikh Empire: despite ruling over a diverse population, the Sikhs are repeating the mistakes of the OTL Mughal Empire. Once tolerant and open, the maharajas have begun a program of Sikh dominance. While this has increased conversions, the majority Muslim population has grown resentful, especially considering the ongoing war with the Parsees Empire.
  • Hindia: a powerful confederation, where Muslims and Dharmists share power in the name of common nationality and culture. Mass-based politics has arrived, with the Hindi (language, not religion) nationalist party coming to dominance at the cost of many minorities. They hope to carve out an empire of their own, but are surrounded on all sides by powerful enemies.
  • Bangla Sultanate: an imperial sultanate that has recently shrugged off its Turko-Persian façade and embraced Bengali culture. The textile manufacturing capital of the world, Bangla is one of the richest states, and uses its rotary-guns and steamships in the name of “free” trade and protecting Muslims worldwide. Its greatest rival is the Tamil Empire, who its hopes to overturn once and for all in a decisive war.
  • Gujarat Sultanate: the sultan here has less power and is more Persian than in Bangla. With the most advanced financial institutions in the world, Gujarat has been able to fund wars better than anyone. However, financiers and capitalists have insisted on reforms, pressing for the sultan to be restricted within the bounds of the hierarchical caste-based councils. Nervous about Marhatta’s expansion, it may soon intervene, but is looking for allies for help.
  • Utkala: one of the newest states, Utkala was created from dozens of princely states in a Telangana-Bangla treaty. While dominated by Bengal, it does have its own unique institutions: chiefly, a massive council of elected and dynastic leaders from all its constituent entities.
  • Marhatta: with an origin in revolution against imperial powers, Marhatta has embraced its Dharmic Marathi identity at the cost of rights for its minorities. It aims to incorporate all Marathis into its state, at the cost of its neighbors. Public practice of Islam is strictly outlawed, and all Muslims face heavy taxes. Dravidians, too, are objects of suspicion and legal harassment.
  • Telangana: governed by an alliance between a hereditary monarchy and the industrial elite, Telangana hopes to restrict the social progress erupting across its neighbors. The lack of popular support for the monarchy has led to its poor performance during a decisive war with Marhatta, which aims to seize its empire and annex Marathi territories and will likely succeed.
  • Karnata: once the heart of the great Vijayanagara Empire, Karnata sought to revitalize its empire with nationalism, though is still in decline. Nevertheless, it is perhaps the cultural heart of the world. Its particular brand of the Eternal Dharma (Hinduism), which focuses on Shiva, has been spread across the world, while the impact of reformist Lingayatism has led to greater flexibility in caste across India. With its own Marathi minorities, Karnata is looking for allies to restrict Marhatta’s expansion.
  • Tamil Confederacy: a confederation of Tamil and Sinhala states, this empire elects its king from the foremost princes. Sri Lanka, like OTL Ireland, is facing both cultural absorption and repression—though for the past 100 years Buddhism has been enshrined as the religion of state, the product of a spiritual revolution. Followers of the Eternal Dharma, especially in the tributary states, don’t like this in the least. Nevertheless, the Tamil navy is the strongest in the world, combining steam technology and advanced steelmaking, and its empire is the dominant world hegemon.
View attachment 721401
part 2:

BHARATA IS THE WORLD

From Alaksca to Shalmalidvipa, from Candina to Malaippiratekam, the center of commerce, culture, and power is the continent of Bharata. Textiles from Bangla, guns from Marhatta, and steam engines from Tamilakam cross the world. On the religious front, the gods Vishnu and Shiva are worshipped across many continents. The Tamil Language is the lingua franca, while Kannada is a close second. Bharata's spiritualism has deeply changed both Christianity and Islam; for the latter, Sufism is the dominant branch. Dravidian architecture can be found in many major cities, Bharatanatyam dance is most popular, Bengali painting is in every art museum, dhoti trousers are worn by men everywhere, and kabaddi is played worldwide.

Bharata 2.png



POINTS OF INTEREST:

1. Oseti Sakovi: an indigenous nation, governed by a council with leaders from each of the tribes displaced by colonization. They have invited Misisippi’s protection from the expansionist Hautenocauni—a deal with the devil. Their religion of state is Shakdvipic Dharma—a combination of old world and new world polytheism.

2. Hautenocauni: don’t be fooled by the name, there are few aborigines left over. First the Christians came, with their own diseases, then the Tamilarkal conquered all. Once the prince converted to Buddhism, however, the Eternal Dharmists population rebelled and won independence.

3. Misisippi: at first a refuge for Vijayanagara’s anti-caste Lingayatists, the arrival of the cash crops and Afro-Muslim slave labor has resulted in a strictly caste-based society. Their revolt against Vijayanagara spelled the end for that empire. They still rely on Karnata for security against revolting Afro-Muslims, however.

4. Ajtek Empire: while the countryside is largely indigenous, Ajteka is ruled by an upper class of creole Vijayanagara loyalists. An attempted union with Misisippi failed, and now Ajteka is deeply in debt renegotiation with Telangana.

5. Karipskatal: along this ocean are a number of sugar colonies. Once dominated by Vijayanagara, many were turned over to Marhatta. Now, this is the most unequal place on Earth, where Afro-Muslims toil for little pay. Whispers of revolt are growing.

6. Tavantincuyu: the Tamil Empire never quite got rid of the indigenous customs, but for several centuries the Inkas were tributaries. Now, they turn to Karnata for military assistance against their old overlords.

7. Pahruli: along the great jungles of the Pahruli River, many Tamil settlers have built lumber colonies. Even with the rise of coal, lumber is still in demand.

8. New Ilankai: while Tamilakam gave them their independence, the underclass has revolted against the Buddhist rulers, hoping to establish the Eternal Dharma as the religion of state.

9. Candina: a growing number of Gujarati are settling here—there’s plenty of room for growth.

10. Aislantu: one of the few independent Airoppiya states, Aislantu nevertheless relies on strong allies for its security.

11. Empire of the Romaka: a massive bureaucracy ruling over millions, society consists of a few thousand Tamil bureaucrats and generals ruling over millions of Airopiyarkal, mostly serfs with a few bribed lords and kings. The Tamil Maharaja is technically the emperor; he bears in his title “Cicar.” Many, including the Catholic Pope, are eager for independence.

12. Hellasa: a puppet of Gujarat, Hellasa sees Tamilakam and Polis-Rasya as bigger threats. Gujarat is a good sponsor and Athens has once again become the center of Western intellectual thought. In Constantinople, however, the Gujarati flag flies.

13. Polis-Rasya: perhaps the greatest non-Indian state, Polis-Rasya emerged out of a fortuitous marriage union. While losing many wars to Tamilakam, it has retained its independence and seeks to expand its influence over Christendom. Now, it is splitting the Mankol Empire in half with the Tamil Empire—a rare moment of cooperation.

14. Caliphate of Magareba: once a proud independent empire, Magareba was taken over by Bangla’s banks. Now, its caliph is nothing more than a puppet—though he distracts himself with religious spats with his rival Sunni caliph to the east.

15. Caliphate of Misara: like its rivals, Misara is a debt-ridden puppet, but this time to Gujarat. The threat of Jewish rebellion and Alhipas’s invasion, however, is of greatest concern to al-Khalifat fi al-Qahira.

16. Empire of Timbaktu: populated by descendants of refugees escaping slaving warlords, Timbaktu aims to liberate the coast from colonialization—though is completely outmatched by itself.

17. Alhipas: an Orthodox Empire which has prepared itself for total war against colonization. Karnata is more than willing to give it modern weaponry if it means toppling its enemies’ power in the Red Sea.

18. Dhula: Marhatta has ambitious aims to build a railroad from coast to coast, but its engineers failed to predict how tough jungles could be.

19. Central Siddia: too far from the shores, these lands are mostly left alone.

20. South Circle: one of the first Indian colonies on Siddia, the South Circle is a delicate balance between Karnata’s settlers and the battle-heartened natives.

21. Turaska: Never recovering after Timur’s rampage against the Ottomans, Turaska is only newly a country, and relies on Bengal for protection against its stronger neighbors. The padishah still calls himself qayser too.

22. Iraka: some engineers swear they have found oil.

23. Parsees Empire: a hereditary monarchy of once-Zoroastrian Punjabi-Persians put in power by the Sikha, the shahs have since converted to Islam and embraced violent expansionism.

24. Mankol Empire: not actually Mongolians, but Buddhist Turks. Horses are outraced by trains and crossbows by cannons; they will soon fall.

25. Malaippiratecam: Tamil settlers have expanded to all corners of the earth; the indigenous peoples here are pressed from their lands, absorbed, or work in frigid mines or collect furs.

26. Nippan: split in half between rival Shoguns, the Heavenly Sovereign is forced into live-long quiescent neutrality.

27. Qing Dynasty: once ruling most of northern Cina, the Qing have since been restricted to their Manchurian homelands and pressed into debt and dominance to Tamilakam.

28. Hui Dynasty: a Muslim dynasty ruling over a mostly Buddhist/Confucian country, the Hui must rely on Bangla for its grip on power. The Red Turbans have seized much of the countryside and aim to put into power a Han dynasty.

29. Javadvipa: while ruled by Indians, these million islands are a vibrant cultural hub and a source for much of India’s raw materials.

30. Shalmalidvipa: the old Karnataka colonies here have since won independence, but are rivaled by the new Bangla colonies and raids by aboriginals from the desert.
 
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