Map Thread XXI
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It’s an old basemap. Yemen making the top 50 for both is kinda surprising considering how rarely independent/wanked Yemen appears on here, and how easily Oman could have been absorbed into Persia.
Myanmar/Burma also
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Pretty sure it was a dynastic relation thing the Romanovs kept in their title list and not much else.
The Tsar's style included "Heir of Norway".
In the 18th Century, one of the Tsars was the son of Charles Frederick, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp. Chuck Fred was one of two claimants in a a succession dispute that lasted for a while before he was disqualified because he married the Tsar of Russia's eldest daughter, and Sweden was afraid of falling under personal union with Russia.
The house of S-H-G was a cadet branch of the House of Oldenburg, which was the royal house of Denmark-Norway. Thus the "Heir of Norway", though I have no idea why "heir", and why not Denmark, too.
Could be because Norway was hereditary monarchy while Denmark was elective monarchy.
A canon (as confirmed by djkaktus on Twitter) map of the antediluvian world in Project PARAGON, a series on the SCP wiki. Map made by @ws_luk on Twitter.
While unseen on this map, it is speculated that the Americas are inhabited by SCP-4000 ("Fae") and SCP-1000 ("Children of the Night") instances.
Wonderful, but any chance to translate this into English? I have been hoping for years someone would make a map about this, and I am curious where the Tsar of Siberia comes in on it.
Oh my, I imagine the Croatians are going to have strong feelings on this. Do you imagine the Austrians and Hungarians keep Dalmatia separate from Croatia-Slavonic and Bosnia-Herzoviginia here to avoid that?A topographical map of Austria-Hungary-Poland. It's the first map I made using QGIS and it WAS painful. I hope the result looks nice at least.
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Exquisite!A topographical map of Austria-Hungary-Poland. It's the first map I made using QGIS and it WAS painful. I hope the result looks nice at least.
In 1918, instead of signing the Brest-Litovsk Treaty, the Bolsheviks caved into pressure from the Left Socialist Revolutionaries and other groups and reneged on it. What followed a low-intensity warfare in the Eastern Front of WW1, with an increasingly desperate Germany and somewhat less-exasperated Soviet Russia. Eventually, both sides got tired enough to finally sign a peace treaty. This new one, also called the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, is slightly less harsh than the original, leaving out the cession of Ukraine and the Caucasus entirely. This made the Left SRs grumpy, but not enough to revolt.
The White Movement emerges as usual, leading to a Russian Civil War. However in this one, a longer WW1 Eastern Front means less success for the Bolsheviks in the west. Eventually, the independent Ukrainian's People's Republic was taken over by Wrangel's South Russia government, though this was set back by losses in the Caucasus. As the White Army all around seems to be collapsing, Ukraine, or "Malorussia" as it is referred to by the White government, is becoming their only stronghold. As the Red Army breached the Dniepr and is withing sight of Kiev, Wrangel made a last-minute attempt at a salvage by recognizing the new independent Polish Republic, and forming an alliance, and action which split the White Movement.
This new alliance managed to push the Red Army back, liberating Byelorussia and Lithuania. Eventually, both sides got tired of the war, and signed an armistice in 1921. The Soviets would retreat from the Polish-Ukrainian occupied territories, in exchange for establishing a demilitarized zone at their border with Russia. These new nations would then form a bloc, which would be called informally as the "Intermarium". The Intermarium is not a formal organization, but a series of defensive and cooperation treaties. Malorussia, which still claims to be the legitimate government of Russia, itself only technically recognize Poland, and relations with the other two nations are done informally.
The Intermarium is not united by any means. Poland's insistance on the independence of Byelorussia and Lithuania annoys the White Government (as they see it as a thinly veiled Polish subjugation of integral territories of Russia), though they were recognized as the legitimate Russian government by the entire bloc in exchange. As a whole, the Intermarium is split into two factions, the Tsarists, who dreamt of liberating Russia from the Bolshevik menace and reestablishing the monarchy, and the Separatists, who favor of complete independence from Russia. Malorussia represents the former, while Poland represents the latter. In Malorussia, the separatists tendency is manifested by the Ukrainianists, an alliance of many widely differing political parties who have the common goal of establishing an independent and separate Ukrainian state. Even in Poland, there are prominent Tsarists who see the Intermarium as a bastion of anti-communism against the eastern Bolsheviks, and many of these would advocate for an autonomous Poland under a Tsar. These two camps tolerate each other for now to preserve what little unity there is, and also as useful tool of destabilization against the Soviets. Lithuania and Byelorussia are caught in the middle of these ideological battles, and to add Bolshevist sympathisers into the mix, makes this alliance even more fragile.
The Soviet Union even after they lost territory in Malorussia and Byelorussia has gained others in the Baltic and Finland. The Left SRs never revolting means they are still an existing political party up until 1924, where as a political consolidation, they were merged with the Russian Communist Party to form the United Socialist Party. This caused a (second) split among the Left SRs, as those who disagreed with the merging formed their own party. This meant that for a brief period, the Soviet Union was a two-party democracy. Economically wise, more territory in the Baltics and less in Ukraine caused the USSR to be more trade-oriented, as a longer-living Lenin and prominent agrarian socialists from the former Left SR party influenced the prolonging of the New Economic Policy. Thus the USSR was affected by the 1929 Great Depression, though very much less so than the other countries.
The All-Russian Government of Kiev, or "Malorussia" as it is commonly called, is a stratocratic dictatorship under Wrangel and the White Army. Though most of them would envisions the reestablishing of a tsardom at some point later down the line, there is a growing cult of personality around Wrangel, the pravitel' of Russia. They see him as the true leader who will save Russia from Bolshevism by himself, not under the guidance of a Romanov. For now, Wrangel himself is aligned with the monarchists, but he kept the Vrangelisty close, in case his power is threatened enough. The Provincial Reform of 1927 de-facto abolished the old oblasts of Little Russia, and in their place were created raions, more compact militarized units designed for better centralization and quicker mobilization. Economically, Malorussia is a tightly state-controlled capitalist economy.
An armistice did not stop various acts of aggression and espionage between the Intermarium and the USSR though. In 1931, in Malorussian Crimea, the local communists there openly revolted as a consequence of the economic crisis, supported by the USSR. Similarly in the Soviet Union, Malorussia has been covertly arming and funding a White insurgency in South Russia and the Caucasus ever since the war ended.
Thats interesting scenario, also like visualisation!
In 1918, instead of signing the Brest-Litovsk Treaty, the Bolsheviks caved into pressure from the Left Socialist Revolutionaries and other groups and reneged on it. What followed a low-intensity warfare in the Eastern Front of WW1, with an increasingly desperate Germany and somewhat less-exasperated Soviet Russia. Eventually, both sides got tired enough to finally sign a peace treaty. This new one, also called the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, is slightly less harsh than the original, leaving out the cession of Ukraine and the Caucasus entirely. This made the Left SRs grumpy, but not enough to revolt.
The White Movement emerges as usual, leading to a Russian Civil War. However in this one, a longer WW1 Eastern Front means less success for the Bolsheviks in the west. Eventually, the independent Ukrainian's People's Republic was taken over by Wrangel's South Russia government, though this was set back by losses in the Caucasus. As the White Army all around seems to be collapsing, Ukraine, or "Malorussia" as it is referred to by the White government, is becoming their only stronghold. As the Red Army breached the Dniepr and is withing sight of Kiev, Wrangel made a last-minute attempt at a salvage by recognizing the new independent Polish Republic, and forming an alliance, and action which split the White Movement.
This new alliance managed to push the Red Army back, liberating Byelorussia and Lithuania. Eventually, both sides got tired of the war, and signed an armistice in 1921. The Soviets would retreat from the Polish-Ukrainian occupied territories, in exchange for establishing a demilitarized zone at their border with Russia. These new nations would then form a bloc, which would be called informally as the "Intermarium". The Intermarium is not a formal organization, but a series of defensive and cooperation treaties. Malorussia, which still claims to be the legitimate government of Russia, itself only technically recognize Poland, and relations with the other two nations are done informally.
The Intermarium is not united by any means. Poland's insistance on the independence of Byelorussia and Lithuania annoys the White Government (as they see it as a thinly veiled Polish subjugation of integral territories of Russia), though they were recognized as the legitimate Russian government by the entire bloc in exchange. As a whole, the Intermarium is split into two factions, the Tsarists, who dreamt of liberating Russia from the Bolshevik menace and reestablishing the monarchy, and the Separatists, who favor of complete independence from Russia. Malorussia represents the former, while Poland represents the latter. In Malorussia, the separatists tendency is manifested by the Ukrainianists, an alliance of many widely differing political parties who have the common goal of establishing an independent and separate Ukrainian state. Even in Poland, there are prominent Tsarists who see the Intermarium as a bastion of anti-communism against the eastern Bolsheviks, and many of these would advocate for an autonomous Poland under a Tsar. These two camps tolerate each other for now to preserve what little unity there is, and also as useful tool of destabilization against the Soviets. Lithuania and Byelorussia are caught in the middle of these ideological battles, and to add Bolshevist sympathisers into the mix, makes this alliance even more fragile.
The Soviet Union even after they lost territory in Malorussia and Byelorussia has gained others in the Baltic and Finland. The Left SRs never revolting means they are still an existing political party up until 1924, where as a political consolidation, they were merged with the Russian Communist Party to form the United Socialist Party. This caused a (second) split among the Left SRs, as those who disagreed with the merging formed their own party. This meant that for a brief period, the Soviet Union was a two-party democracy. Economically wise, more territory in the Baltics and less in Ukraine caused the USSR to be more trade-oriented, as a longer-living Lenin and prominent agrarian socialists from the former Left SR party influenced the prolonging of the New Economic Policy. Thus the USSR was affected by the 1929 Great Depression, though very much less so than the other countries.
The All-Russian Government of Kiev, or "Malorussia" as it is commonly called, is a stratocratic dictatorship under Wrangel and the White Army. Though most of them would envisions the reestablishing of a tsardom at some point later down the line, there is a growing cult of personality around Wrangel, the pravitel' of Russia. They see him as the true leader who will save Russia from Bolshevism by himself, not under the guidance of a Romanov. For now, Wrangel himself is aligned with the monarchists, but he kept the Vrangelisty close, in case his power is threatened enough. The Provincial Reform of 1927 de-facto abolished the old oblasts of Little Russia, and in their place were created raions, more compact militarized units designed for better centralization and quicker mobilization. Economically, Malorussia is a tightly state-controlled capitalist economy.
An armistice did not stop various acts of aggression and espionage between the Intermarium and the USSR though. In 1931, in Malorussian Crimea, the local communists there openly revolted as a consequence of the economic crisis, supported by the USSR. Similarly in the Soviet Union, Malorussia has been covertly arming and funding a White insurgency in South Russia and the Caucasus ever since the war ended.
But I am not sure how would Intermarium work there, with much smaller bolshevik threat and with so many issues between Ukrainian, Poles and (white) Russians...
How are western Polish borders? As OTL?
I wonder, how would be relations of this Intermarium with its neighbors, Romania (OTL quiet friendly to Poland, as far as I know - probably for the sake of common red enemy... here, with Malorussia probably claiming Bessarabia or at least some part of it...), Czechoslovakia and Germany
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Empire of All Russias
Derzhavas of:
1. Moscow
2. Kyiv
3. Vladimir
4. Novgorod
Tsardoms:
5. of Kazan
6. of Astrakhan
7. Polish
8. Siberian
9. of Tauric Chersonese
10. Georgian
States of:
11. Pskov
12. Iveria
13. Kartli
14. lands of Kabarda
15. of Armenian areas
16. Turkestan
Grand principalities:
17. of Smolensk
18. Lithuanian
19. Volhynian
20. Podolian
21. of Finland
22. of Novgorod of the Lower Land
23. of Chernihiv
24. of Ryazan
25. of Polotsk
26. of Rostov
27. of Yaroslavl
28. Belozersky
29. Udorian
30. Obdorian
31. Kondian
32. of Vitebsk
33. of Mstislavl
Principalities of:
34. Estonia
35. Livonia
36. Courland and Semigallia
37. Samogitia
38. Bialystok
39. Karelia
40. Tver
41. Yugra
42. Perm
43. Vyatka
44. Bulgaria
Inherited dominions:
45. of All Severian countries
46. of Cherkessian and Mountain principalities
47. Norwegian
Duchies of:
48. Schleswig-Holstein
49. Stormarn
50. Dithmarschen
51. Oldenburg
Derzhavas of:
1. Moscow
2. Kyiv
3. Vladimir
4. Novgorod
Tsardoms:
5. of Kazan
6. of Astrakhan
7. Polish
8. Siberian
9. of Tauric Chersonese
10. Georgian
States of:
11. Pskov
12. Iveria
13. Kartli
14. lands of Kabarda
15. of Armenian areas
16. Turkestan
Grand principalities:
17. of Smolensk
18. Lithuanian
19. Volhynian
20. Podolian
21. of Finland
22. of Novgorod of the Lower Land
23. of Chernihiv
24. of Ryazan
25. of Polotsk
26. of Rostov
27. of Yaroslavl
28. Belozersky
29. Udorian
30. Obdorian
31. Kondian
32. of Vitebsk
33. of Mstislavl
Principalities of:
34. Estonia
35. Livonia
36. Courland and Semigallia
37. Samogitia
38. Bialystok
39. Karelia
40. Tver
41. Yugra
42. Perm
43. Vyatka
44. Bulgaria
Inherited dominions:
45. of All Severian countries
46. of Cherkessian and Mountain principalities
47. Norwegian
Duchies of:
48. Schleswig-Holstein
49. Stormarn
50. Dithmarschen
51. Oldenburg
I'm afraid to disappoint, the borders of some regions are quite arbitrary. In particular Siberia, I was based more on the Siberian Khanate.
A French Canadian superpower with no France?
Mild confusion followed by curiosity.
AMERICA'S QUEBEC;
WHAT IF LOUISIANA REMAINED FRANCOPHONE?
WHAT IF LOUISIANA REMAINED FRANCOPHONE?
Nevertheless, the Louisianans grew to have a distrust of the federal government, immediately jumping ship in 1860 and joining the Confederate States of America. In 1864-65 it was reconquered by America, and subjected to Reconstruction, which did not make inclinations to the federal government any better. Aside from Hawaii, Post-Civil War America had to deal with little separatism barring that of Louisiana, which flip-flopped politically from the Nationalist Separatist La Louisiane Party which supported independence, and the Louisiana Democrats which favored Regionalism. When separatism became illegal by law in the late 1800s, riots broke out in Louisiana with American governmental officials attacked on the streets. Though separatism remained banned, the 1897 Louisiana Act gave absolute cultural and religious freedom to Louisiana as a concession. Louisianan regionalism remained high through the 20th century as well, with Louisiana having the least amount of volunteers for the army during WW1 and WW2 for America by the proportion of state population. During the 1960s and 1970s, inspired by Quebecois Nationalism in Canada, Louisiana Nationalism began to rear its head once again. The Louisiana Troubles started in 1972 and ended in 1999 which resulted in the deaths of thousands of American troops and Louisianan civilians. Finally, mirroring Britain, America passed the 1999 2nd Louisiana Act giving Louisiana the ability to secede from America if both houses of the Louisianan State government agreed to hold a referendum by 2/3 majority, and the referendum passed by the majority of the population. This led to the peaceful 2003 Louisiana Independence Referendum which was defeated with 48.12% voting in favor of independence with the rest voting against. Today, Louisiana remains the Francophone and most regionalist state of the United States of America.
Thoughts and Comments?
I like it, but I'm not sure they would let it join as a single state regardless of language. Maybe it could be divided into larger than OTL state's but still have your Francophone baby-boom spread throughout the area creating a cultural unification of those states.AMERICA'S QUEBEC;In 1803, when the Louisiana Purchase was completed, there was a fear that under the American government, the traditionally French-speaking region of Louisiana would be strangled slowly into the realm of being Anglophone instead. This was not an irrational fear as homesteading showed afterward. In response, the Louisianans had their fertility rate skyrocket through the roof, increasing the natural Francophone population of the region. Natural emigration of French speakers from Haiti, and French Republicans from France also bolstered this French-speaking bastion in America before the 1842 French Louisiana Act reluctantly accepted reality and officially safeguarded the language within the state of Louisiana within the USA.
WHAT IF LOUISIANA REMAINED FRANCOPHONE?
Nevertheless, the Louisianans grew to have a distrust of the federal government, immediately jumping ship in 1860 and joining the Confederate States of America. In 1864-65 it was reconquered by America, and subjected to Reconstruction, which did not make inclinations to the federal government any better. Aside from Hawaii, Post-Civil War America had to deal with little separatism barring that of Louisiana, which flip-flopped politically from the Nationalist Separatist La Louisiane Party which supported independence, and the Louisiana Democrats which favored Regionalism. When separatism became illegal by law in the late 1800s, riots broke out in Louisiana with American governmental officials attacked on the streets. Though separatism remained banned, the 1897 Louisiana Act gave absolute cultural and religious freedom to Louisiana as a concession. Louisianan regionalism remained high through the 20th century as well, with Louisiana having the least amount of volunteers for the army during WW1 and WW2 for America by the proportion of state population. During the 1960s and 1970s, inspired by Quebecois Nationalism in Canada, Louisiana Nationalism began to rear its head once again. The Louisiana Troubles started in 1972 and ended in 1999 which resulted in the deaths of thousands of American troops and Louisianan civilians. Finally, mirroring Britain, America passed the 1999 2nd Louisiana Act giving Louisiana the ability to secede from America if both houses of the Louisianan State government agreed to hold a referendum by 2/3 majority, and the referendum passed by the majority of the population. This led to the peaceful 2003 Louisiana Independence Referendum which was defeated with 48.12% voting in favor of independence with the rest voting against. Today, Louisiana remains the Francophone and most regionalist state of the United States of America.
Thoughts and Comments?
Also, I love the flag. But I'm curious about the use of the Lorraine Cross? It certainly existed well before, but it's modern popularity as a French symbol came from Charles De Gaulle in WWII.
No possible way for this state to have all the territory, be it on the grounds of politics, mobility, economics, etc. Or demographics of course. Also the issue how the Anglophonics would be moving from the West while the Francophonics move from the south. You use Wuebec as an example here that Louisiana follows, and I feel making a mention of the version of French spoken by this state would be good. Having it were parts of Louisiana are settled by Acadians, Cajun, those from the Caribbean, as well as having more Métis equivalents would be interesting, with a couple states for them dotted all around. Should we take it that any areas on this map where there is very low population it is automatically filled as French? Thinking back to the Métis actually, what happened with the Five Civilised Tribes? Were they still shipped west? Do you also have for Louisiana what Quebec currently has, which is to basically stop non-French speakers from sticking around? All the Mormons, Germans, Scandinavians, Americans, etc are likely to continuing speaking their own languages or English rather than go for French, and the Native tribes (I imagine you could make an interesting map showing the differences with Indian Reservations here) although I suppose the huge belt of red on the top shows where most of them are. Nicely done in having different colors for the areas with different language minorities. Do you have any separatism here within Louisiana? West Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee didn’t want the coastal planters and elites running the show for them (at least back when they were settlers). I feel it would be much the same here. I also feel they would want to move capitals at some point, if only because New Orleans only has so much dry space. Honestly, if you just had a map involving the modern day borders of the state of Louisiana (including the parts from West Florida and Texas they got after the Americans annexed the area) you would be able to get a lot done in the language stuff alone. Or, I suppose, it would end up like IOTL, where demographics and economics would eventually make everyone speak English as well.AMERICA'S QUEBEC;In 1803, when the Louisiana Purchase was completed, there was a fear that under the American government, the traditionally French-speaking region of Louisiana would be strangled slowly into the realm of being Anglophone instead. This was not an irrational fear as homesteading showed afterward. In response, the Louisianans had their fertility rate skyrocket through the roof, increasing the natural Francophone population of the region. Natural emigration of French speakers from Haiti, and French Republicans from France also bolstered this French-speaking bastion in America before the 1842 French Louisiana Act reluctantly accepted reality and officially safeguarded the language within the state of Louisiana within the USA.
WHAT IF LOUISIANA REMAINED FRANCOPHONE?
Nevertheless, the Louisianans grew to have a distrust of the federal government, immediately jumping ship in 1860 and joining the Confederate States of America. In 1864-65 it was reconquered by America, and subjected to Reconstruction, which did not make inclinations to the federal government any better. Aside from Hawaii, Post-Civil War America had to deal with little separatism barring that of Louisiana, which flip-flopped politically from the Nationalist Separatist La Louisiane Party which supported independence, and the Louisiana Democrats which favored Regionalism. When separatism became illegal by law in the late 1800s, riots broke out in Louisiana with American governmental officials attacked on the streets. Though separatism remained banned, the 1897 Louisiana Act gave absolute cultural and religious freedom to Louisiana as a concession. Louisianan regionalism remained high through the 20th century as well, with Louisiana having the least amount of volunteers for the army during WW1 and WW2 for America by the proportion of state population. During the 1960s and 1970s, inspired by Quebecois Nationalism in Canada, Louisiana Nationalism began to rear its head once again. The Louisiana Troubles started in 1972 and ended in 1999 which resulted in the deaths of thousands of American troops and Louisianan civilians. Finally, mirroring Britain, America passed the 1999 2nd Louisiana Act giving Louisiana the ability to secede from America if both houses of the Louisianan State government agreed to hold a referendum by 2/3 majority, and the referendum passed by the majority of the population. This led to the peaceful 2003 Louisiana Independence Referendum which was defeated with 48.12% voting in favor of independence with the rest voting against. Today, Louisiana remains the Francophone and most regionalist state of the United States of America.
Thoughts and Comments?
I think the Poles would be lobbying for their Slavic brethren inclusion into the Union as its rightful members, but I don't see Austrians or Hungarians agreeing to this. Overall, this country would be a ticking bomb. That's why I set the map in 1921. Even in a Central Powers victory scenario an empire that ethnically diverse wouldn't last for long.
Looking at the like count I'm glad the map was so appreciated, maybe learning QGIS was worth the pain. I hope the next time I use it the process will be less messy (I actually screw the pooch with couple things making this one, such as the Austro-Italian border; also, I realized half-way through that I didn't render the big rivers' layer onto my basemap, and had to trace them onto it in Inkscape. All in all, it was a chore.)
Now I'm not sure if this should be posted in this thread or in the graphics one, but I'll go ahead and post it here, since it contains a map. It's an excerpt of an imaginary textbook aimed at teaching a language using the natural method and is based on a real book dedicated to teaching Latin, called Lingua Latina per se illustrata. And the language it teaches is a hypothetical Eastern Romance language with a Slavic substrate used in an TTL equivalent of Poland:
The offhand point of divergence I came up with is that Roman emperor Commodus doesn't withdraw behind the Danube line after the death of his father, instead chosing to hold and expand the new possessions. Eventually Romans subjugate the territories of today's Lesser Poland, which leads to their inhabitants adopting Latin as the native language.
The empire falls in the V century, as it did in our timeline. However, the territories that were under Roman influence turn out to be more apt at state-building and it's the Southern Polish tribe of Wiślanie, instead of the Western Polans, that eventually unites the Polish tribes. Because the administrative and cultural center of the state is situated in the South (to which it also shifted in OTL, but in this one it's there from the beginning), Poles are less interested in expanding East and opt for a dynastic union with Hungary instead. This personal union turns in time into a real one. But enough with the timeline. Let's talk language.
Wiślina is an east-romance language, drawing heavily from Slavic influence, much like Romanian did in OTL. However, its substrate is composed of Western Slavic dialects that in OTL have developed into Polish. Thus, many features of Polish are retained. Among them:
1. The abundance of nasal sounds: ą, ę and ų. The nasalization pattern I went with was based upon French, with Latin syllable 'in' evolving [ɛ̃], transcribed as 'ę', 'im' into [ɑ̃], transcribed as 'ą'* and (this one not being based on French) 'un' and 'um' into a [ũ], transcribed as 'ų' (Unlike the other two this letter doesn't exist in Polish, but the sound does)
2. Polish-like declension patterns
3. Polish-like spelling and phonetics
4. A change of gender in those Latin words the Slavic equivalent of which is of a different gender (e.g. Latin word 'fluvius' is masculine, but Polish word 'rzeka' is feminine; the Latin-root word remains but changes its gender to match that of the Slavic counterpart. Hence it evolves into a feminine 'fluwa')
Also, a duality of register is present; there are many words that have both Slavic and Latin-root variants, and the choice between them is often a stylistic one (the Romance ones sounding more refined).
I hope y'all like it!
EDIT: I know that in French 'im', is actually pronounced as '[ɛ̃]', but in many Latin words this syllable, such as in 'imperium', has evolved into 'em' ('empire'), pronounced as [ɑ̃], hence my choice of this sound.
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