Map Thread XXI

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I wonder, how would be relations of this Intermarium with its neighbors, Romania (OTL quiet friendly to Poland, as far as I know - probably for the sake of common red enemy... here, with Malorussia probably claiming Bessarabia or at least some part of it...), Czechoslovakia and Germany
....and Hungary and Yugoslavia
 
I think the Poles would be lobbying for their Slavic brethren inclusion into the Union as its rightful members, but I don't see Austrians or Hungarians agreeing to this. Overall, this country would be a ticking bomb. That's why I set the map in 1921. Even in a Central Powers victory scenario an empire that ethnically diverse wouldn't last for long.

Looking at the like count I'm glad the map was so appreciated, maybe learning QGIS was worth the pain. I hope the next time I use it the process will be less messy (I actually screw the pooch with couple things making this one, such as the Austro-Italian border; also, I realized half-way through that I didn't render the big rivers' layer onto my basemap, and had to trace them onto it in Inkscape. All in all, it was a chore.)

Now I'm not sure if this should be posted in this thread or in the graphics one, but I'll go ahead and post it here, since it contains a map. It's an excerpt of an imaginary textbook aimed at teaching a language using the natural method and is based on a real book dedicated to teaching Latin, called Lingua Latina per se illustrata. And the language it teaches is a hypothetical Eastern Romance language with a Slavic substrate used in an TTL equivalent of Poland:

dfbf779-7a7f685c-6795-485b-a912-81a523560556.png



The offhand point of divergence I came up with is that Roman emperor Commodus doesn't withdraw behind the Danube line after the death of his father, instead chosing to hold and expand the new possessions. Eventually Romans subjugate the territories of today's Lesser Poland, which leads to their inhabitants adopting Latin as the native language.

The empire falls in the V century, as it did in our timeline. However, the territories that were under Roman influence turn out to be more apt at state-building and it's the Southern Polish tribe of Wiślanie, instead of the Western Polans, that eventually unites the Polish tribes. Because the administrative and cultural center of the state is situated in the South (to which it also shifted in OTL, but in this one it's there from the beginning), Poles are less interested in expanding East and opt for a dynastic union with Hungary instead. This personal union turns in time into a real one. But enough with the timeline. Let's talk language.

Wiślina is an east-romance language, drawing heavily from Slavic influence, much like Romanian did in OTL. However, its substrate is composed of Western Slavic dialects that in OTL have developed into Polish. Thus, many features of Polish are retained. Among them:
1. The abundance of nasal sounds: ą, ę and ų. The nasalization pattern I went with was based upon French, with Latin syllable 'in' evolving [ɛ̃], transcribed as 'ę', 'im' into [ɑ̃], transcribed as 'ą'* and (this one not being based on French) 'un' and 'um' into a [ũ], transcribed as 'ų' (Unlike the other two this letter doesn't exist in Polish, but the sound does)
2. Polish-like declension patterns
3. Polish-like spelling and phonetics
4. A change of gender in those Latin words the Slavic equivalent of which is of a different gender (e.g. Latin word 'fluvius' is masculine, but Polish word 'rzeka' is feminine; the Latin-root word remains but changes its gender to match that of the Slavic counterpart. Hence it evolves into a feminine 'fluwa')

Also, a duality of register is present; there are many words that have both Slavic and Latin-root variants, and the choice between them is often a stylistic one (the Romance ones sounding more refined).

I hope y'all like it!

EDIT: I know that in French 'im', is actually pronounced as '[ɛ̃]', but in many Latin words this syllable, such as in 'imperium', has evolved into 'em' ('empire'), pronounced as [ɑ̃], hence my choice of this sound.
Oh my god alternate Polish!! Also love that Poland went full Sarmatism lol.
 
I think the Poles would be lobbying for their Slavic brethren inclusion into the Union as its rightful members, but I don't see Austrians or Hungarians agreeing to this. Overall, this country would be a ticking bomb. That's why I set the map in 1921. Even in a Central Powers victory scenario an empire that ethnically diverse wouldn't last for long.

Looking at the like count I'm glad the map was so appreciated, maybe learning QGIS was worth the pain. I hope the next time I use it the process will be less messy (I actually screw the pooch with couple things making this one, such as the Austro-Italian border; also, I realized half-way through that I didn't render the big rivers' layer onto my basemap, and had to trace them onto it in Inkscape. All in all, it was a chore.)

Now I'm not sure if this should be posted in this thread or in the graphics one, but I'll go ahead and post it here, since it contains a map. It's an excerpt of an imaginary textbook aimed at teaching a language using the natural method and is based on a real book dedicated to teaching Latin, called Lingua Latina per se illustrata. And the language it teaches is a hypothetical Eastern Romance language with a Slavic substrate used in an TTL equivalent of Poland:

dfbf779-7a7f685c-6795-485b-a912-81a523560556.png



The offhand point of divergence I came up with is that Roman emperor Commodus doesn't withdraw behind the Danube line after the death of his father, instead chosing to hold and expand the new possessions. Eventually Romans subjugate the territories of today's Lesser Poland, which leads to their inhabitants adopting Latin as the native language.

The empire falls in the V century, as it did in our timeline. However, the territories that were under Roman influence turn out to be more apt at state-building and it's the Southern Polish tribe of Wiślanie, instead of the Western Polans, that eventually unites the Polish tribes. Because the administrative and cultural center of the state is situated in the South (to which it also shifted in OTL, but in this one it's there from the beginning), Poles are less interested in expanding East and opt for a dynastic union with Hungary instead. This personal union turns in time into a real one. But enough with the timeline. Let's talk language.

Wiślina is an east-romance language, drawing heavily from Slavic influence, much like Romanian did in OTL. However, its substrate is composed of Western Slavic dialects that in OTL have developed into Polish. Thus, many features of Polish are retained. Among them:
1. The abundance of nasal sounds: ą, ę and ų. The nasalization pattern I went with was based upon French, with Latin syllable 'in' evolving [ɛ̃], transcribed as 'ę', 'im' into [ɑ̃], transcribed as 'ą'* and (this one not being based on French) 'un' and 'um' into a [ũ], transcribed as 'ų' (Unlike the other two this letter doesn't exist in Polish, but the sound does)
2. Polish-like declension patterns
3. Polish-like spelling and phonetics
4. A change of gender in those Latin words the Slavic equivalent of which is of a different gender (e.g. Latin word 'fluvius' is masculine, but Polish word 'rzeka' is feminine; the Latin-root word remains but changes its gender to match that of the Slavic counterpart. Hence it evolves into a feminine 'fluwa')

Also, a duality of register is present; there are many words that have both Slavic and Latin-root variants, and the choice between them is often a stylistic one (the Romance ones sounding more refined).

I hope y'all like it!

EDIT: I know that in French 'im', is actually pronounced as '[ɛ̃]', but in many Latin words this syllable, such as in 'imperium', has evolved into 'em' ('empire'), pronounced as [ɑ̃], hence my choice of this sound.
This is deeply, monumentally based.
I love early PODs, I love deep looks at language, I love anything in Eastern Europe, and ofc who can complain about a high effort textbook style map.

Big respect, I hope to see more stuff of this quality.
 
Karemchia (Karemchian: Karömčké, Hungarian: Karömcsország, German: Karömtschei, Polish: Karymczy, Bulgarian: Каремчия) is a country in eastern Europe, laying on the Carpathian Arc and the eastern Carpathian Basin, including the regions of Pusmalvizia, Cisdanubia, Moldavia and northern Dobrudja. On the southeast the country has access to the Black Sea. Further the country is bordered by Ukraine to the north and east, Bulgaria to the south, Serbia to the southwest and Hungary to the west. After being member of the Warsaw pact and thus part of the communistic world until 1990, the country joined the NATO (2004) and the EU (2007).
The country has a large recognized minority of Hungarians in the middle of the country, organized as the autonomous region of Székelyland. Other significant and legally recognized minorities are Germans in the Székelyland autonomous region and in southern Pusmalvizia, as well as Poles in some northern areas of the country and Bulgarians in the Dobrudja. In 1920, there were also large minorities of Roma, Jews and Ukrainians, but during the fascist dictatorship, most of them either were genocided or left the country.

As of 2019, 53,5% of the Karemchian population are christians (23,5% roman catholics, 19% eastern orthodox, 9,5% protestantic, 1,5% other christians), 39% are agnostics or atheists, 1,2% have other beliefs (mostly Buddhists and Jews) and 6,3% provided no information about religious status.

The Karemchian language is an Indo-European language. Together with the Slavic and Baltic languages, it forms an own branch of the Indo-European language family - the so-called Dvino-Vardaric languages. Karemchian appears as its own group of this branch, while Slavic and Baltic are the other two groups. Noticeable elements of Dacian, Thracian and Illyric also appear in the Karemchian language, as well as moderate Hungarian, German and Latin influences and lower influences of Slavic, Greek and Turkic (Chuvash). Still less influences also come from Iranic and Armenian, as well as recently from English. Furthermore, Karemchian contains some archaic terms and elements of early medieval Slavic and Baltic languages, which now are disappeared in both language groups.
There are three large dialect groups of Karemchian: Cisdanubian in the south, Moldavian in the east, and Pusmalvizian in Pusmalvizia. All three dialect groups are mutually intelligible.


Full name of the country: Republic of Karemchia (Karömčés Rjepublika)
Capital and largest city: Vežalgard (population: 2.160.531)
Demonym: Karemchian
Form of goverment: Semi-presidental republic
President: Vencel Ladisula
Premier: Imre Körmendi
Population: 19.467.172 (as of June 2019)
Currency: Karemchian Dákes (Karömčés Dákes) (KAD)
Time zone: EET (UTC+2), EEST (UTC+3)
National holiday: December 1st
National anthem: Za örbó, za hürlecó ("The plains, the mountains")
Drives on the: right
Country code: KA, KAR
Calling code: +40
Internet TLD: .ka, .eu

S9lqxEF.png


* Pusmalvizia = Transsylvania ; Cisdanubia = Wallachia
 
A topographical map of Austria-Hungary-Poland. It's the first map I made using QGIS and it WAS painful. I hope the result looks nice at least.
Very nice! My one quibble is the lack of Austrian Trentino/Sudtirol, which has been Austrian since the middle ages and only lost in WWI.
 
AMERICA'S QUEBEC;
WHAT IF LOUISIANA REMAINED FRANCOPHONE?

wepaRup.png

In 1803, when the Louisiana Purchase was completed, there was a fear that under the American government, the traditionally French-speaking region of Louisiana would be strangled slowly into the realm of being Anglophone instead. This was not an irrational fear as homesteading showed afterward. In response, the Louisianans had their fertility rate skyrocket through the roof, increasing the natural Francophone population of the region. Natural emigration of French speakers from Haiti, and French Republicans from France also bolstered this French-speaking bastion in America before the 1842 French Louisiana Act reluctantly accepted reality and officially safeguarded the language within the state of Louisiana within the USA.

Nevertheless, the Louisianans grew to have a distrust of the federal government, immediately jumping ship in 1860 and joining the Confederate States of America. In 1864-65 it was reconquered by America, and subjected to Reconstruction, which did not make inclinations to the federal government any better. Aside from Hawaii, Post-Civil War America had to deal with little separatism barring that of Louisiana, which flip-flopped politically from the Nationalist Separatist La Louisiane Party which supported independence, and the Louisiana Democrats which favored Regionalism. When separatism became illegal by law in the late 1800s, riots broke out in Louisiana with American governmental officials attacked on the streets. Though separatism remained banned, the 1897 Louisiana Act gave absolute cultural and religious freedom to Louisiana as a concession. Louisianan regionalism remained high through the 20th century as well, with Louisiana having the least amount of volunteers for the army during WW1 and WW2 for America by the proportion of state population. During the 1960s and 1970s, inspired by Quebecois Nationalism in Canada, Louisiana Nationalism began to rear its head once again. The Louisiana Troubles started in 1972 and ended in 1999 which resulted in the deaths of thousands of American troops and Louisianan civilians. Finally, mirroring Britain, America passed the 1999 2nd Louisiana Act giving Louisiana the ability to secede from America if both houses of the Louisianan State government agreed to hold a referendum by 2/3 majority, and the referendum passed by the majority of the population. This led to the peaceful 2003 Louisiana Independence Referendum which was defeated with 48.12% voting in favor of independence with the rest voting against. Today, Louisiana remains the Francophone and most regionalist state of the United States of America.

Thoughts and Comments?
Wonderful !
 
In response, the Louisianans had their fertility rate skyrocket through the roof, increasing the natural Francophone population of the region. Natural emigration of French speakers from Haiti, and French Republicans from France

Don't think that works, demographically speaking. There were only 60,000 non-Indians in Louisiana, some half of them black slaves, and others Spanish immigrants (and no doubt some Anglo-Americans by that point, but let's disregard that [1]) in 1803: even doubling every twenty years (French Canadian doubling time was more like 30 years in the 19th century) and assuming the slaves continue to speak French [2] (and the Spanish-speakers are assimilated) that will only come to 480,000 in 1863. OTL the 1860 population of Louisiana, Arkansas, Kansas and Missouri was already over 2.4 million. France was a relatively minor source of immigrants to North America, with very few arriving before the 1830s [3], and the USA sure as hell won't be accepting any immigrants from Haiti after the slaves take over.

I can see a scenario where the territory of OTL's state of Louisiana remains French majority speaking, but this "US Quebec" scenario isn't happening without an earlier POD that puts more French-speaking warm bodies in the area.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Missouri#Spanish_settlement_and_government

[2] In the long run, wouldn't they be likelier to eventually assimilate to the English-speaking majority African-American community?

[3]
1322682935_immigration-from-france.png


 
Don't think that works, demographically speaking. There were only 60,000 non-Indians in Louisiana, some half of them black slaves, and others Spanish immigrants (and no doubt some Anglo-Americans by that point, but let's disregard that [1]) in 1803: even doubling every twenty years (French Canadian doubling time was more like 30 years in the 19th century) and assuming the slaves continue to speak French [2] (and the Spanish-speakers are assimilated) that will only come to 480,000 in 1863. OTL the 1860 population of Louisiana, Arkansas, Kansas and Missouri was already over 2.4 million. France was a relatively minor source of immigrants to North America, with very few arriving before the 1830s [3], and the USA sure as hell won't be accepting any immigrants from Haiti after the slaves take over.
Thanks for the statistical/quantifiable analysis!
 
A bigger more detailed revision of my old concept:

The End of the Reverse Cold War

2002, after the dissolution of Britannia into 14 independent republics.

In blue, the Liberal-Conservative world order lead by France and America, plus friends. While Democracy is advertised, results may vary.
Israel and Iran are the closest pair of the bunch.

In red, the communist European Union, though it is undergoing market liberalization. Born out of the ashes of the Austrian-Danubian Empire, it united central Europe and defeated the Nazi Russian invasion.

In green, the Indian Empire, which retains their Anglo monarchy ever since the Revolution which tore the British world apart, exiling much of the upper class to their biggest colony. After going native, they rule their corner of the world. They are allied with Japan and hostile to the Chinese, Socialists, and African rebels. They wield considerable influence in the Islamic world, having successfully bridged relations between the Muslims and Hindus to build their state.

Compared to OTL:
The American rebellion never came, and subsequent divergences in Europe lead to the Austrians being dominant over Prussia in Germany.
Instead of Russia and China, communist revolutions were successful in the two biggest industrial powers of Britannia and Germany-Danubia.

Manchuria and China are basically North and South Korea, but x20
Guangdong and Yunnan remaining independent is probably unlikely, so some peaceful Chinese reunification is on the table, especially since the GMD mellowed out and China eased into democratic elections in the 80's.
Spanish re-unification going smoothly.

STR9_2010_C.png
 
Last edited:
Alternate ethnicity? Cool beans.
Thanks. For a long time, I was thinking about the question what if the Balto-Slavic peoples had not just two groups, but three. That question I perceived as very fascinating, so I looked if I could do something cool with that. Also it was pretty fun to look how I could rename the cities and towns of Romania, more or less plausibly.
 
I think the Poles would be lobbying for their Slavic brethren inclusion into the Union as its rightful members, but I don't see Austrians or Hungarians agreeing to this. Overall, this country would be a ticking bomb. That's why I set the map in 1921. Even in a Central Powers victory scenario an empire that ethnically diverse wouldn't last for long.

Looking at the like count I'm glad the map was so appreciated, maybe learning QGIS was worth the pain. I hope the next time I use it the process will be less messy (I actually screw the pooch with couple things making this one, such as the Austro-Italian border; also, I realized half-way through that I didn't render the big rivers' layer onto my basemap, and had to trace them onto it in Inkscape. All in all, it was a chore.)

Now I'm not sure if this should be posted in this thread or in the graphics one, but I'll go ahead and post it here, since it contains a map. It's an excerpt of an imaginary textbook aimed at teaching a language using the natural method and is based on a real book dedicated to teaching Latin, called Lingua Latina per se illustrata. And the language it teaches is a hypothetical Eastern Romance language with a Slavic substrate used in an TTL equivalent of Poland:

dfbf779-7a7f685c-6795-485b-a912-81a523560556.png



The offhand point of divergence I came up with is that Roman emperor Commodus doesn't withdraw behind the Danube line after the death of his father, instead chosing to hold and expand the new possessions. Eventually Romans subjugate the territories of today's Lesser Poland, which leads to their inhabitants adopting Latin as the native language.

The empire falls in the V century, as it did in our timeline. However, the territories that were under Roman influence turn out to be more apt at state-building and it's the Southern Polish tribe of Wiślanie, instead of the Western Polans, that eventually unites the Polish tribes. Because the administrative and cultural center of the state is situated in the South (to which it also shifted in OTL, but in this one it's there from the beginning), Poles are less interested in expanding East and opt for a dynastic union with Hungary instead. This personal union turns in time into a real one. But enough with the timeline. Let's talk language.

Wiślina is an east-romance language, drawing heavily from Slavic influence, much like Romanian did in OTL. However, its substrate is composed of Western Slavic dialects that in OTL have developed into Polish. Thus, many features of Polish are retained. Among them:
1. The abundance of nasal sounds: ą, ę and ų. The nasalization pattern I went with was based upon French, with Latin syllable 'in' evolving [ɛ̃], transcribed as 'ę', 'im' into [ɑ̃], transcribed as 'ą'* and (this one not being based on French) 'un' and 'um' into a [ũ], transcribed as 'ų' (Unlike the other two this letter doesn't exist in Polish, but the sound does)
2. Polish-like declension patterns
3. Polish-like spelling and phonetics
4. A change of gender in those Latin words the Slavic equivalent of which is of a different gender (e.g. Latin word 'fluvius' is masculine, but Polish word 'rzeka' is feminine; the Latin-root word remains but changes its gender to match that of the Slavic counterpart. Hence it evolves into a feminine 'fluwa')

Also, a duality of register is present; there are many words that have both Slavic and Latin-root variants, and the choice between them is often a stylistic one (the Romance ones sounding more refined).

I hope y'all like it!

EDIT: I know that in French 'im', is actually pronounced as '[ɛ̃]', but in many Latin words this syllable, such as in 'imperium', has evolved into 'em' ('empire'), pronounced as [ɑ̃], hence my choice of this sound.

Reminds me of Ill Bethisad, whose wiki is apparently now dead. T_T
 
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