Map Thread XIV
- Thread starter MorningDew
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I find Britain remaining a battered but ever vigilant outside threat is sort of necessary for the Napoleonic atmosphere, so much as Russia maintaining Moscow is. Personally I'd maybe give Finland and more of Sweden to the French Alliance System, and maybe more of Ruthenia to Russia (Keiv, ect.); but that's just my preference. Quebec is a good fit, though how does it clash with America still loosing the war of 1812?
Other then that, not so much a criticisms this time, but I'd be interested to know whats going on with Austria/hungary/wallachia or whatever it is (though the border with the other German states does look a little bit boxy).
Otherwise, I'm glad to see Newfoundland, China and Japan remain untouched =w=
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Okay! Make the British battered and very angry. Oooh I never thought of giving them more of Ruthenia. Wouldn't that step on Russia's toes since Kiev is literally the Heartland of traditional Russia? Here we go on the trip to explanation station while I work on fixing the coronation map.
War of 1812: Let us say that the British took Washington D.C. much sooner than otl allowing them to miss the hurricane and actually burn Washington to the ground before marching upriver to turn and attack New York instead of Baltimore. With this new plan of attack to cripple the United States, the northern British forces were ordered from Montreal to attack south and take the Hudson River allowing the British to attack New York by land and by River while the Army in Upper Canada is ordered to take Fort Detroit to full bring the newly founded United States to it's knees. I would hypothesize that if the British were to achieve at least some of the points made here it would cripple the U.S. financially allowing for the Re-purchase of Louisiana and for the French to take the undefended British territories eventually linking them to Louisiana states. Sure there would be resistance to the French but if they were to time it just right the French would be able to take the territories while the British are trying to seize New York.
Austria: I had it in my mind that following Napoleon's victory he would grant Hapsburg Austria the land following the Danube to the Black Sea if they allowed Bohemia to become autonomous.
I hope that makes some sense. Let me know if I should tweak anything!
Yea Yea! I actually meant giving Russia a little more of Ruthenia, actually, but I think what you have now is just fine. Your right, I think at this point Kiev would be to much of an insult for the Russians to bare.
Again, Quebec might be a little jumbled for the TL, but it's ultimately down to you. As for Louisiana, is it necessary for Napoleon to buy it back? what if he just never sold it in the first place, and worked out a deal with Britain to keep it after the main series of conflicts are won?
Okay. I kept thinking Poland looks pretty damn big but it looks so nice with access to the sea! I never thought of it that way! That is what I keep thinking. How would you un-jumble it? Would you avoid the taking of Quebec all together?
Emperor-of-New-Zealand
Kicked
@Daniwani I really don't think Britain will be making any 'deals' with Napoleon, at least colonially. Losing the Med will be insult enough if Nappy manages it (I still don't know if Napoleon or Spain can take Gibraltar, though).
I think so yes, like I said rather then just an overall "france wank" this map is pretty clearly a Napoleonic wank, and at that point and time things like the Auld Alliance and Quebec are long gone.
I should ask, what's the situation with the French Metropole? I personally always thought that Napoleon would probably have given up on trying to directly annex the parts of Italy, Catalonia and the Netherlands that he tried too during the war, just for convenience sake; but at this point it seems like the metro areas have long sense lost their french majority. What was the idea behind that?
And aye, Poland is a touch large, but if you wanna keep it that way that's fine imo, though if I were doing the map personally, I'd probably give Russia up to around Minsk and bellow, just to keep more of a legitimate threat present.
I don't imagine it would be likely irl no, but this is clearly a Nap wank and whatever deal is made would probably be made well after Napoleon fully consolidates power over Europe. It's a stretch, maybe, but I'm trying to be as accommodating to the original map as possible whilst giving what advice I can.
Seraphiel
Banned
Inspired by Huntington's book the "Clash of Civilizations" and made with @HowAboutThisForAName s base map.
This is a future scenario where global geopolitics, after being totally shaken up by climate change, eventually coalesce more or less around "civilizations", groups of states roughly of a similar cultural and historical background. In order of their overall strength and global power projection.
The North Atlantic Treaty Organization
After going to war with Russia in the early 21st century over Estonia and barely beating back the Ruskies NATO has undergone some pretty significant changes over the past century. It now sees itself as the defender of Western civilization first and then democracy. After a strong rejection of multiculturalism in the Turmoil during the 30s and 40s the West is proudly, well Western. One of the more democratic blocs, the West is essentially even with the Islamic world in overall "strength", both have extensive states spread across the globe, both are situated on more than one continent, both are relatively evenly developed economically. However like the Ummah NATO is also faced with a wide level of threats, from the Amistad and America's desire to restore its territorial integrity, to Europe and its showdown with the Russians.
The Ummah
Of all the blocs Dar Al-Islam was perhaps the most shaken, except for maybe Africa, by the Turmoil, which started earlier in the Middle East when compared to the rest of the world. Through steady and determined buildup of trust and economic growth however the Islamic world, its its myriad of forms, has united more or less into a cohesive bloc divided between North Africa under Maghrebi leadership, the Middle East under Iranian leadership and Nusantara. Faced with major antagonistic forces in India, Africa and Russia the Ummah is arguably in a more delicate position than even the West. Which would explain their incredibly powerful militaries.
The Sinosphere
If China only had to stand toe to toe with an individual country it would surpass all others, even its close rival Bharat, however friends do make a difference in geopolitics and China has few of them. With the largest economy in the world, the largest population (the Turmoil wasn't good for India at all) and the largest military China is scary. Plus with Korea and China the Sinosphere is formidable, if it lacks any significant ability to project power beyond its immediate region.
The Bharati-Thai Alliance
Coming in behind China is this most religiously extreme of blocs, with both Buddhist Thailand and Hindu Bharat gladly using religion as a weapon against the other blocs. With a particularly hard few decades in the Turmoil, when famine and plague stalked the lands of India, it should be of little surprise that Bharat adopted an extremist approach as its various Hindu nationalist movements gained power. Despite the Chinese monster to its north Bharat and Thailand remains mostly focused on the twin threats of Iran and Nusantara, who they perceive as the greatest enemies of their alliance, and rightfully so after what Bharat did to Indian Islam.
The Latino Amistad
Just barely eking out ahead of the African Pride the Amistad owes most of its power due to the projection ability of Mexico, who maintains naval bases deep into the western Pacific and its title as the most developed bloc (generally speaking, the West African Confederation usually rejects that). The Amistad's primary concern is with the West, even if its has countless similarities with them. If it were not for the deep nationalism of the Latin American states and America's aggression towards them it is likely that the Amistad would be considered a separate arm of the West. Thankfully for the other blocs this has not happened and appears to be increasingly unlikely to ever happen.
The African Pride
The lions of Africa were slightly different than what most early 21st century predictions forecast. This grand coalition of states with roughly similar power is perhaps the most divided of blocs but also one of the most diversified, bringing to the table to the incredible strengths of half a continent renown for its mineral wealth. Another one of the Pride's assets is the fact that it has to focus on only one front, North Africa. This gives them an unusual amount of freedom to trade with the other blocs and focus on other sectors, not just security.
The Christian Alliance
If not for the unfortunate Russo-NATO War this particular civilization grouping would certainly have become a part of the West, however that war shoved the Orthodox world into its egg which slowly turned increasingly to Christian theocracy and extremism. While overall undeniably the weakest of the blocs the Christian Alliance prides itself in an abnormally large and capable military (proven in the 60s), much like the Soviet bloc before it the question is however can they maintain it?
This is a future scenario where global geopolitics, after being totally shaken up by climate change, eventually coalesce more or less around "civilizations", groups of states roughly of a similar cultural and historical background. In order of their overall strength and global power projection.
The North Atlantic Treaty Organization
After going to war with Russia in the early 21st century over Estonia and barely beating back the Ruskies NATO has undergone some pretty significant changes over the past century. It now sees itself as the defender of Western civilization first and then democracy. After a strong rejection of multiculturalism in the Turmoil during the 30s and 40s the West is proudly, well Western. One of the more democratic blocs, the West is essentially even with the Islamic world in overall "strength", both have extensive states spread across the globe, both are situated on more than one continent, both are relatively evenly developed economically. However like the Ummah NATO is also faced with a wide level of threats, from the Amistad and America's desire to restore its territorial integrity, to Europe and its showdown with the Russians.
The Ummah
Of all the blocs Dar Al-Islam was perhaps the most shaken, except for maybe Africa, by the Turmoil, which started earlier in the Middle East when compared to the rest of the world. Through steady and determined buildup of trust and economic growth however the Islamic world, its its myriad of forms, has united more or less into a cohesive bloc divided between North Africa under Maghrebi leadership, the Middle East under Iranian leadership and Nusantara. Faced with major antagonistic forces in India, Africa and Russia the Ummah is arguably in a more delicate position than even the West. Which would explain their incredibly powerful militaries.
The Sinosphere
If China only had to stand toe to toe with an individual country it would surpass all others, even its close rival Bharat, however friends do make a difference in geopolitics and China has few of them. With the largest economy in the world, the largest population (the Turmoil wasn't good for India at all) and the largest military China is scary. Plus with Korea and China the Sinosphere is formidable, if it lacks any significant ability to project power beyond its immediate region.
The Bharati-Thai Alliance
Coming in behind China is this most religiously extreme of blocs, with both Buddhist Thailand and Hindu Bharat gladly using religion as a weapon against the other blocs. With a particularly hard few decades in the Turmoil, when famine and plague stalked the lands of India, it should be of little surprise that Bharat adopted an extremist approach as its various Hindu nationalist movements gained power. Despite the Chinese monster to its north Bharat and Thailand remains mostly focused on the twin threats of Iran and Nusantara, who they perceive as the greatest enemies of their alliance, and rightfully so after what Bharat did to Indian Islam.
The Latino Amistad
Just barely eking out ahead of the African Pride the Amistad owes most of its power due to the projection ability of Mexico, who maintains naval bases deep into the western Pacific and its title as the most developed bloc (generally speaking, the West African Confederation usually rejects that). The Amistad's primary concern is with the West, even if its has countless similarities with them. If it were not for the deep nationalism of the Latin American states and America's aggression towards them it is likely that the Amistad would be considered a separate arm of the West. Thankfully for the other blocs this has not happened and appears to be increasingly unlikely to ever happen.
The African Pride
The lions of Africa were slightly different than what most early 21st century predictions forecast. This grand coalition of states with roughly similar power is perhaps the most divided of blocs but also one of the most diversified, bringing to the table to the incredible strengths of half a continent renown for its mineral wealth. Another one of the Pride's assets is the fact that it has to focus on only one front, North Africa. This gives them an unusual amount of freedom to trade with the other blocs and focus on other sectors, not just security.
The Christian Alliance
If not for the unfortunate Russo-NATO War this particular civilization grouping would certainly have become a part of the West, however that war shoved the Orthodox world into its egg which slowly turned increasingly to Christian theocracy and extremism. While overall undeniably the weakest of the blocs the Christian Alliance prides itself in an abnormally large and capable military (proven in the 60s), much like the Soviet bloc before it the question is however can they maintain it?
I was using a Nappy basemap that included Netherlands and Italy as part of the French Empire not a puppet state. I'll make those changes asap. I'm planning on changing a great deal of the States over to Duchies and rump Kingdoms. In my mind I had it that Nappy made them states to assert direct control on the areas with the plan of reorganizing the Empire for a more manageable and more French majority. I learned in my studies at University that Napoleon was pretty pissed about losing the New World colonies (Hati and Louisiana) so I figured I would hypothesize a way for him to get them back and Nappy winning the War in Europe would be a massive part to it.
I really love this! The borders are fantastic, especially where they've changed in South America and Africa, like how they've become far more organic but you can still see bits of that colonial heritage. However, nitpicking, it appears that independent Netherland survives in the ABC islands, Spain in the Canaries, and Portugal in the Azores and Madeiras. Also, Israel isn't in the key, and I'm curious how it fits into the pan-Islamic Middle East and all. Also, what's life like in rump Canada? I'd imagine it's around evenly Anglophone and Francophone at this point, because of the higher Quebecois birthrate and the loss of all Anglophone cities outside of Ontario and all.
The revised Soviet Empire from the world of the map I posted yesterday. The dark red areas are under military control, European Russia and Belarus are the "Special Free Market Zone", conventional soviet red is areas still totally under central control, Ukraine is a separate people's republic within the USSR and Central Asia and the Baltics are semi-autonomous, whilst the brown areas are run by warlords/military strongmen.
Seraphiel
Banned
Thanks! And yeah I rushed it without proofing some thing, Ill change that.
Israel was basically forced to give up some territories as international support dried up. On threat of nuclear war it managed to survive and in the modern day it is a toehold of the West in the Middle East, armed to the teeth with neighbors (such as Palestine) also armed to the teeth.
As to Canada, Quebec and Ontario initially also broke apart when most of the country joined the US but within a decade they united once more. Now a fairly evenly split between English and French halves. Basically a smaller version of OTL Canada in policies and society.
So like this. Here is the map at the time of the Coronation of Napoleon II in 1847. Let me know if I should tweak anything else!
There goes my hope of a united Scottish and French Darien Scheme to build the panama canal!
I don't imagine it would be likely irl no, but this is clearly a Nap wank and whatever deal is made would probably be made well after Napoleon fully consolidates power over Europe. It's a stre
Oh wow that's looking much better! mind explaining the states in the Middle East, Anatolia, Scandinavia and South America?
New Netherlands is the most powerful economic power in North American, if not the world. A large trading center holding large cities like New Amsterdam and Harlam (OTL Boston) allows them to control multiple countries without actually controlling them. One such nation is New Sweden. New Sweden is a much smaller state. Acting more as a neutral nation with not a lot of power (like OTL Belgium) housing the headquarters of the Union of Nations (Basically a UN type thing). After The Event, New Netherlands and New Sweden both were rocked to the core. There were questions about the future state of things, how will we survive, what about our trade, what do we do now? There was some hope, they came across a nation to the east of New Sweden that called itself "The Free States of America".
The Free States of America are a leftover from the American Civil War and the following Frozen War between the two. Possibly one of the poorest nation's on the North American continent, the FSA was created as a bufferzone between the USA and the CSA to help prevent any large scale conflict. However, it does mean that the land is very poor, with the richest state being Colorado (OTL Southern California) who were rolling in the gold business and decided to attempt to lure people in by creating a thriving community of rich businesses and scientist, with mixed success. Slavery was not illegal but discouraged when the nation was first formed. This was the compromise made by the USA and CSA when the nation was founded. Slavery was banned by 1884, but race relations have not taken as a nice of a turn by the present day. Now that they have found themselves in a new world, they hope that maybe they can escape their former designation as a poor nation and become the world power that they were always meant to be.
Nations
Europe
Thanks so much! Okay here we go.
Anatolia/Middle East: After dismantling the Ottoman Empire Nappy set about to carve up the Empire but in doing so encountered hostilities that is why the Kingdom of Pontus is not part of the Kingdom of Anatolia and why the Kingdom of Caucasian Iberia is not part of the Kingdom of Armenia. Proclaiming himself the Emperor of the new Roman Empire he created the independent state of Constantinoplis (otl Istanbul and Thracia) based upon the Roman province in the same area. Due to the large amount of hostile Greeks to the south Napoleon gave lands around Izmir and Troy back to Greece (which now controls the entire Aegean Sea) while the 'die-hard' Turkish peoples who fought for the Ottoman Empire were driven to the Kingdom of Anatolia and watched very carefully. He then took off for historical Armenia and restored the old lineage to the throne with more traditional borders. Pontus held out until the end when it by its own accord became part of the French Communion of Protectorates and Puppets. Now onto the Middle East. After sorting out Anatolia, Napoleon set south to reorganize the 'fertile crescent' he had heard so much about in his studies at military school in Corsica. Upon his arrival he found it was in anarchy and he had to move quickly so he departed for Baghdad to organize the installation of a government when he got word of otl Syria trying to invade otl Israel so he established an autonomous region which contain Mesopotamia otl Iraq. He then setup other autonomous regions (i've included a map to help explain what I'm talking about) such as Syria which includes otl Syria, parts of Turkey and Lebanon, Jordan which includes otl Jordan and parts of Saudi Arabia and finally Judea which is otl Israel and Palestine as well as the Sinai Peninsula. Napoleon quickly established the Kingdom of Hejaz to stop any more potential religious conflict by others trying to seize it. Yemen is a mess because it was in complete and total anarchy by the time Nappy got there. North fighting South, South fighting the East, and the East against everyone. So in accordance with the maps he had on had (Ottoman Maps and Roman Maps) he divided Amen from traditional Northern Yemen from the eastern desert to create The Kingdom of Yemen, The Kingdom of Aden, the Hadramaut Kingdom. Oman was basically self sustaining and quickly realized who the new world power was and asked to become a subject of the empire and they were gladly welcomed. OTL UAE became sort of like the Trucial States in that there are Emirates controlled by different people but in this case they report to a General-Governor who has the final say.
Scandinavia: Being fascinated with all things historical and important Napoleon divided Scandinavia into the historical regions he learned in military school: Akerhus, Trondheim, Bergenhus and Finnmark (I will include a map to explain this too).
South America: Upon fully submitting the post-Ottoman States he realized his empire was going to need lots and lots of natural resources to sustain itself. Having a colony in South America and having recently weakened Portugal and Spain he decided to travel to the New World and personally lead a conquest of the Amazon to claim it's vast resources. He compared himself claiming the Amazon to the Romans claiming Egypt for the grain farming he would use the rubber and the trees to sustain the new Empire.
Hope this makes sense and answers your questions!
Here are the maps first is the map with the subdivisions for the Fertile Crescent and second is a map that shows the progression of Norway which shows a map Napoleon would have seen in military school when learning about the world and it's history.
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