I imagine Mongolia and rump Manchuria are to some extent Russian protectorates...
Map Thread XIV
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I imagine Mongolia and rump Manchuria are to some extent Russian protectorates...
A cover of this scenario https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/oneshot-scenarios-2.380935/page-53#post-12744983 by RoyalPsycho , set before the fall of the Russian world-empire.
In this world, the Mongol invasions never took place (later horse-nomad explosions did take place, but not on quite such a scale), Russia never came under the Mongol yoke, and the Russian states reunited into a single big-ass Slav state by the late 1200s, becoming a major European player from the start. Lithuania never got the chance to expand eastwards, and Poland remained a fairly small state squeezed between Russians and Germans. Russian support kept the Byzantines from collapsing entirely, and the Khwarezmids managed to build an empire which briefly extended from Palestine to Pakistan [1] before getting its eastern bits chewed up by the aforementioned lesser nomadic incursions. Russia reached the Pacific by way of the forests north of the Steppe by the 1400s, and began exploring the west coasts of America some decades before the first explorers from Europe reached the Americas. Given their extremely long logistical trail, they never settled in quite the numbers of OTL west Europeans until the age of rail, and tended to co-opt and vassalize native states to a rather greater extent than our Spaniards (which is why there are more surviving native polities).
Russia underwent the early modernity demographic explosion rather earlier than OTL, and went from Great European Power to Overwhelming European Power by the end of the 18th century. In the 1870s, they went to war with France, one of the few European states able to face Russia down in the past, over France's competition with them for influence over the Holy Roman Empire and what they claimed (accurately, if France hotly denied it) were French efforts to create an all-western-Europe alliance vs Russia through secret diplomacy. Deciding to make an example of France, the Russians carved the place up, with the eager participation of old French rival Britain, and the less enthusiastic participation of the Austrians and the Aragonese [2]. France's overseas colonies were divvied up with less fuss.
What was meant to be a demonstration of overwhelming Russian power and the need to keep the Russian ass well kissed led instead to increased paranoid anti-Russianism, as Germans, British, Iberians, and others wondered that if Russia would do that to France today, what might it do to them in the future? And an already strong pro-unification movement in the Holy Roman Empire gained strength: long divided by Russian and French meddling to support, say, "the traditional rights of princes", the rise of modern mass politics and the crystallization of Russia as the sole enemy of union, now that the French were down and out, made it powerful enough that even the strongest of princes had to compromise with it. By the 1890s, pro-unification political parties dominated Austria, Brandenburg, and the Kingdom of the Three Saxonies (long story), much of Germany was united in a Customs Union and there was talk of extending it to the other German states, and there was even giddy talk of a joint German army.
The Russian government decided something would have to be done. And when a pro-Unification revolt broke out in Munich, the Russian army mobilized to the aid of the Czar's good friend, the King of Bavaria...little did the Russian government imagine that soon they would not only be fighting German nationalists and Chinese rebels, but the British and Iberian Empires, Polish nationalists, Indian nationalists, the Kingdom of Naypon, and even the bloody Swedes.
[1] Not Actually Existing in this TL
[2] "She cried, when she took: but she took!"
In this world, the Mongol invasions never took place (later horse-nomad explosions did take place, but not on quite such a scale), Russia never came under the Mongol yoke, and the Russian states reunited into a single big-ass Slav state by the late 1200s, becoming a major European player from the start. Lithuania never got the chance to expand eastwards, and Poland remained a fairly small state squeezed between Russians and Germans. Russian support kept the Byzantines from collapsing entirely, and the Khwarezmids managed to build an empire which briefly extended from Palestine to Pakistan [1] before getting its eastern bits chewed up by the aforementioned lesser nomadic incursions. Russia reached the Pacific by way of the forests north of the Steppe by the 1400s, and began exploring the west coasts of America some decades before the first explorers from Europe reached the Americas. Given their extremely long logistical trail, they never settled in quite the numbers of OTL west Europeans until the age of rail, and tended to co-opt and vassalize native states to a rather greater extent than our Spaniards (which is why there are more surviving native polities).
Russia underwent the early modernity demographic explosion rather earlier than OTL, and went from Great European Power to Overwhelming European Power by the end of the 18th century. In the 1870s, they went to war with France, one of the few European states able to face Russia down in the past, over France's competition with them for influence over the Holy Roman Empire and what they claimed (accurately, if France hotly denied it) were French efforts to create an all-western-Europe alliance vs Russia through secret diplomacy. Deciding to make an example of France, the Russians carved the place up, with the eager participation of old French rival Britain, and the less enthusiastic participation of the Austrians and the Aragonese [2]. France's overseas colonies were divvied up with less fuss.
What was meant to be a demonstration of overwhelming Russian power and the need to keep the Russian ass well kissed led instead to increased paranoid anti-Russianism, as Germans, British, Iberians, and others wondered that if Russia would do that to France today, what might it do to them in the future? And an already strong pro-unification movement in the Holy Roman Empire gained strength: long divided by Russian and French meddling to support, say, "the traditional rights of princes", the rise of modern mass politics and the crystallization of Russia as the sole enemy of union, now that the French were down and out, made it powerful enough that even the strongest of princes had to compromise with it. By the 1890s, pro-unification political parties dominated Austria, Brandenburg, and the Kingdom of the Three Saxonies (long story), much of Germany was united in a Customs Union and there was talk of extending it to the other German states, and there was even giddy talk of a joint German army.
The Russian government decided something would have to be done. And when a pro-Unification revolt broke out in Munich, the Russian army mobilized to the aid of the Czar's good friend, the King of Bavaria...little did the Russian government imagine that soon they would not only be fighting German nationalists and Chinese rebels, but the British and Iberian Empires, Polish nationalists, Indian nationalists, the Kingdom of Naypon, and even the bloody Swedes.
[1] Not Actually Existing in this TL
[2] "She cried, when she took: but she took!"
Now that's a Russia wank. Even the one from Tony Jone's 'Puritan World' doesn't come close.
Oh yeah, here comes a ten degree C drop there, though presumably the rest of ther world stays similar, or at least only marginally cooler. I'm wondering how Afrixa and Asia will turn out with the main powers focussed on the new lands.
What happens to the land that was already there? Like, are the Azores and New Zealand suddenly plateau-height or is the land outside of them made flat or something?
Ah, #9 fell victim to the Obligatory Bruce Proofreading Fail. 
It was, IIRC, supposed to be something along the lines of "long a Russian protectorate, the Mesica state has expanded into the desert north, developed a strong navy, and is beginning to stretch its wings, if not quite ready yet to become "The Mesoamerica that can say no" to Kiev. The coming war will be a test of its loyalties."
It was, IIRC, supposed to be something along the lines of "long a Russian protectorate, the Mesica state has expanded into the desert north, developed a strong navy, and is beginning to stretch its wings, if not quite ready yet to become "The Mesoamerica that can say no" to Kiev. The coming war will be a test of its loyalties."
Jcw3
Banned
Link to original post for comparison.
The year is 1850, and it's been pretty crazy in the fifty years since the last map. The world saw its first nuclear war, between the Chinese State and Central Asia/Hindustan, in which the Chinese State came out on top simply out of virtue of striking first against a state with fewer weapons. Remarkably, China hasn't even lost its superpower status from the loss of twelve cities in such a short time, instead rushing out colonists and expanding their breeding policies, overwhelming the locals in Madagascar, Indonesia, Australia, and North America with sheer weight of numbers. Chinese policy is firmly based around integration of the world under their flag, and they aren't terribly shy about it.
The Eurasian Socialist Union has a similar policy, but isn't nearly as diehard about it as China is. They spend most of their time gnashing their teeth at New France, America, and the Western Socialist Republic. Other powers include Axuminia (Ethiopia), which is pursuing a join-or-die policy in Africa, with Soviet support, and Juu Ran (Somalia) with Chinese support, engaging in classic imperialist actions, where they simply subsume countries as they see fit. Axuminia is currently winning.
Brasil is increasingly an African country. Their personal union with the Kongolese royalty was mocked by the other European remnants, but it's only given them more and more riches. Their tributary system, where they make a deal with the reigning leaders of tribal states to eventually unify with their nation as a whole is proving surprisingly effective, given the massive timescale (40 years or more) it operates on. It's given them a lot of friends in Africa, especially when you look at how Axuminia, Morocco, Juu Ran, and the WSR are acting in comparison.
The Spanish Empire fell apart rather nastily, with Eurasia and China both greedily jamming the knife into its neck, finding Colombia, Gran Peru, California, and the various other petty states that emerged from the collapse to be very pliable to their whims. As of the moment, China has more invested in the Americas, what with their ongoing uplift experiment with the natives of the Great Plains, and their existing totally-not-colonies on the Pacific. Both powers have canals, naturally.
Morocco and Sokt (Mali/Sokoto) are looking to eventually become great powers. Morocco's been under Soviet influence longer than they care to have been, and is looking to expand, but they're already struggling to keep a grip on their existing territories, the interior natives not being friendly to Rabat's whims. So in the early 1810s, a Moroccan plane began shipments of weapons to Sokt, a sultanate under siege from the Onitsha Nativist People's State, and soon turned the tide. From there, a mighty empire blossomed. As of now, they're (ironically) joined with the Soviets in gnashing their teeth at the Western Socialist Republic.
Worldwide tech level is roughly 1980s in most of the world, with a primitive equivalent to the Internet starting to come to fruition. Weapons and nuclear tech are much more commonplace than in our world, however, and nuclear fusion is a common source of power.
Questions, comments, thoughts? All welcome.
Wait, 1850 with 1980s tech? Last part was 1800 with 1910s tech; I'm not sure a world mostly of socialist dictatorships would be advancing faster than OTL did in the 20th century.
I'm curious about New France and the *USA: one would think that they would have some sort of hang-together-or-hang-separately alliance vs the Reds for a while now (possibly including the Brazilians as well) and I dunno why they didn't expand more to the north and west before the Chinese came in like a tidal wave. (Or why the Reds haven't linked up their territories in Newfoundland and Hudsons' Bay. The fact that they were able to take over the *US Hudson Bay territory indicates New France is very reluctant to confront them.)
Jcw3
Banned
The initial ISOT was 1942 Soviet Union. They've had 150 years to advance four decades. I think I'm being conservative in this regard.
They have that sort of alliance, I just didn't mention it because it didn't cross my mind when writing the update. They didn't expand more to the north and west because of the ongoing refugee crisis that was throttling New France and the Americans in the immediate term post-ISOT. That caused a variety of riots and near-anarchy in a lot of places in both countries, and they've only recently begun to recover. The former New Spain and Brasil saw similar events, but on the whole, not to the same extend as New France and America.
The independence of Hudsonia is a recent thing (1840s), and the Eurasian settlement of Labrador has been casual at best, with Eurasia much more focused on more profitable areas like Europe or Arabia, or the newer territories they brought in from Central Asia. It's going to be a priority for Moscow, you can bet that much.
EDIT: And yes, both nations are very reluctant to confront the Eurasians, especially after New Spain (the former superpower in the Americas) fell apart. They were very content to let an unproductive, debateably distant (from New Orleans and Philadelphia) wasteland go Red, if it meant they could have more time to build up their own armies. They're still by and large agrarian states with militias only good for putting down native revolts. America's getting a bit better, especially after the loss of Hudsonia.
Seraphiel
Banned
An ASB work in progress where all apocalypse legends and literature happens, not in a truly world ending apocalyptic fashion but enough to turn the world crazy. From Buddhist fanatics out of Lhasa to a Middle Eastern 'Islamic' mystic occultist superstate.
Real description will come when Africa and South America are completed.
Real description will come when Africa and South America are completed.
What does CV stand for?
Incidentally, does anyone have a map of OTL papal holdings in Avignon?
Hmm - but you did say
(my bolding)
Presumably you meant to say "rough worldwide tech level of 1910s, more like 1960s in the more advanced bits of the Red states?"
One hundred and fifty years ago. That's like suggesting Greece will only be recovering from the forced Turkish expulsions post-WWII in the 2070s.
(OK, maybe that's a little harsh - probably an even bigger migration in relative terms, and probably lasted longer. But still. )
So why did it go independent as a Red state? Population mostly Oppressed Natives?
(Again, my bolding)
Once again, after one hundred and fifty years. I suppose it's possible that capitalism, responsible government, and the scientific method weren't sufficiently in place in 1700 Britain for their refugee colony to successfully do a Meiji vs the Commies, even with the intellectual and economic input of their French neighbors, but it seems a bit handwavy. (And their not having professional armies is implausible, given the scale of the threat across the seas, for, oh, the last one hundred fifty years. Why they haven't been invaded and Red-ified escapes me at this point).
'fess up - when you did this scenario, you just weren't all that interested in what happened with Anglo-French north America, were you?
I can think of a fairly plausible reason why the Americans don't want to fight the Reds - insufficient population. If the European Reds cut off immigration after the initial torrent of refugees, the *US would have trouble matching OTL growth rates - there was substantially immigration between 1700 and 1850, [1] and OTL surviving kids rates were already quite high by European standards.
[1] It's estimated that nearly 3 million immigrated to the US from founding to 1850, and it's estimated that some 500-600,000 European immigrants arrived during the British period, plus, of course, black slaves.
Jcw3
Banned
Hmm - but you did say
(my bolding)
Presumably you meant to say "rough worldwide tech level of 1910s, more like 1960s in the more advanced bits of the Red states?"
One hundred and fifty years ago. That's like suggesting Greece will only be recovering from the forced Turkish expulsions post-WWII in the 2070s.
(OK, maybe that's a little harsh - probably an even bigger migration in relative terms, and probably lasted longer. But still. )
So why did it go independent as a Red state? Population mostly Oppressed Natives?
(Again, my bolding)
Once again, after one hundred and fifty years. I suppose it's possible that capitalism, responsible government, and the scientific method weren't sufficiently in place in 1700 Britain for their refugee colony to successfully do a Meiji vs the Commies, even with the intellectual and economic input of their French neighbors, but it seems a bit handwavy. (And their not having professional armies is implausible, given the scale of the threat across the seas, for, oh, the last one hundred fifty years. Why they haven't been invaded and Red-ified escapes me at this point).
'fess up - when you did this scenario, you just weren't all that interested in what happened with Anglo-French north America, were you?
I can think of a fairly plausible reason why the Americans don't want to fight the Reds - insufficient population. If the European Reds cut off immigration after the initial torrent of refugees, the *US would have trouble matching OTL growth rates - there was substantially immigration between 1700 and 1850, [1] and OTL birth rates were already quite high by OTL standards.
[1] It's estimated that nearly 3 million immigrated to the US from founding to 1850, and it's estimated that some 500-600,000 European immigrants arrived during the British period, plus, of course, black slaves.
Yes, that's basically what I meant. That's why I put a rough worldwide tech level of 1910s.
EDIT: I should clarify that by worldwide, I mean contacted nations that are using modern technology, not tribals in the Amazon or Australia. Nations like Axuminia, Eurasia, New France, or China.
The South is still suffering from the effects of Reconstruction (iotl). There are plenty of places still seeing bad shit happening thanks to stuff that happened a long time ago. You add up the low population growth caused by the USSR not really letting anyone leave, and you have a problem for New World population growth, especially in the face of hostile natives, diseases, and political crises.
Hudsonia: Mostly oppressed natives and people ignored by Philadelphia who felt exploited. Eurasia was the best sponsor they could get.
They haven't been invaded and red-ified because the Eurasians and the Chinese have to hold down two continents already, and they have better shit to do, and bigger problems.
I'll give you the professional armies bit. That was a mistake on my part. I should have used the more accurate 'less advanced', maybe.
EDIT: I apologize for making an edit so late, but less advanced and less numerous, not less professional. I'm sorry.
I knew that it existed. Didn't care that much more about it. When I say agrarian states, I mean low population, poorly industrialized states. Poor word choice on my part.
Also, I'm sorry if this is rude, but the smilies make your post look very patronizing.
EDIT: I apologize. This post has been rude. Outside of the two additions above, I'm going to leave it as is for posterity's sake.
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This reminds me a lot of the map I have in my head for a backburner writing project of mine. Would you mind if I borrowed some names and a few of your concepts? Due credit would be given of course.
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