List of Alternate Presidents and PMs II

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Asami, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. King Jasper Well-Known Member

    Dec 27, 2018
    Not too bad. I would like to see some notes to this and maybe defeated candidates. I like that you didn't make it an exact comparison in terms of years served. Makes it feel more organic.

    Btw, has anyone made a good TL for a political analogue?
    gap80 likes this.
  2. Luke_Starkiller Opportunity Democrat; Cold War Junkie

    Mar 7, 2016
    B-Town, USA
    "No Country for O̶l̶d̶ Men"

    1941-1945: President Franklin Delano Roosevelt / Secretary of Agriculture Henry A. Wallace (Democratic)
    1940 Def. Wendell Willkie / Charles McNary (Republican)
    1945-1945: President Franklin Delano Roosevelt / Secretary of Labor Frances Perkins (Democratic)
    1944 Def. Thomas Dewey / Earl Warren (Republican)
    1945-1949: Vice President Frances Perkins / vacant (Democratic)
    1949-1953: General Douglas MacArthur / Governor Harold Stassen (Republican)
    1948 Def. John Sparkman / Averell Harriman (Democratic); William O. Douglas / Rexford Tugwell (Progressive)
    1953-1957: Former President Frances Perkins / Senator Estes Kefauver (Democratic)
    1952 Def. Douglas MacArthur / Harold Stassen (Republican)
    1957-1965: Governor Oveta Culp Hobby / Senator Stuart Symington (Democratic)
    1956 Def. Everett Dirksen / Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. (Republican)
    1960 Def. Richard Nixon / Walter Judd (Republican)
    1965-1973: Senator Margaret Chase Smith / Senator Thurston Morton (Republican)
    1964 Def. Stuart Symington / Hubert Humphrey (Democratic); Orval Faubus / Leander Perez (States' Rights)
    1968 Def. Wayne Morse / Fred Harris (Democratic); Orval Faubus / Happy Chandler (States' Rights)
    1973-1977: Senator Maurine Neuberger / Congressman Wilbur Mills (Democratic)
    1972 Def. Claude Kirk / Elliot Richardson (Republican)
    1977-1985: Former Governor Shirley Temple Black / Congressman Dick Cheney (Republican)
    1976 Def. Maurine Neuberger / Henry M. Jackson (Democratic)
    1980 Def. Henry M. Jackson / Bob Casey (Democratic); Jacob Javitz / James Earl Carter (Alternative for Peace)
    1985-1989: Attorney General Carla Anderson Hills (replacing Vice President Cheney) / Former Mayor Jack Kemp (Republican)
    1984 Def. Bill Hobby / Kevin White (Democratic)
    1989-1997: Senator Kathleen Brown / Governor Joseph P. Riley, Jr. (Democratic)
    1988 Def. Carla Anderson Hills / Jack Kemp (Republican)
    1992 Def. Larry Pressler / Neil Bush (Republican); Ralph Reed / William Armstrong (Values)
    1997-2005: Former Governor Maureen O'Connor / Senator Henry Bonilla (Republican)
    1996 Def. Joseph P. Riley, Jr. / Richard Hatcher (Democratic)
    2000 Def. Ann Wynia / Howard Dean (Democratic)
    2005-2009: Mayor Carol Moseley Braun / Senator Chris Dodd (Democratic)
    2004 Def. Henry Bonilla / Jim Bunning (Republican)
    2009-2017: Governor Ileana Ros-Lehtinen / Senator Bill Schuette (Republican)
    2008 Def. Harvey Gantt / Bob Casey, Jr. (Democratic)
    2012 Def. Gary Locke / Jay Nixon (Democratic)
    2017-20XX: Congresswoman Krystal Ball / Senator Andrew Romanoff (Democratic)
    2016 Def. Bill Schuette / Diane Black (Republican)
  3. BlackentheBorg Just like Dylan's Mr. Jones

    Jun 2, 2015

    Let the Black Banner Fly & the Red Star Shine
    a very different Russian Revolution

    Minister-Chairpeople of the All Russian Constituent Assembly
    1906-1911: Viktor Chernov (intrim)

    1911-1915: Julius Martov (Kropotkinite)
    defeated Alexander Kerensky (Eser), Sasza Ulyanov (Trudovik)
    1915-1918: Marusya Nikiforova (Narodnaya Volya)
    defeated Karlo Chkheidze (Sotsial-demokraticheskiy), Maximovich Petrichenko (Eser-Kropotkinite), Nikolai Bukharin (Natsional'nyy Narodnyy Sindikat), Mina Mirzayeva (Azeri Revolutionary)

    Chairpeople of the Citizens Kollektiv / Vozhd's of the Russian Republic
    1918-1924: Marusya Nikiforova (Narodnaya Volya)

    (largely unopposed)
    1924-1926: Nestor Makhno (Narodnaya Volya)
    (succseded Nikiforova)
    1926-1931: Felix Dzerzhinsky (Narodnaya Volya) [War contingent]
    (appointed during a coup against Makhno)
    1931-1932: Adolph Yoffe (Narodnaya Volya)
    (succseded Dzerzhinsky by Kollektiv vote)
    1931-1947: Inessa Armand (Narodnaya Volya)
    (elected unopposed)
  4. Politibrit Well-Known Member

    Jan 16, 2016
    Good stuff. The one issue I might take is that Boris, despite how he has been presented in American media, is not an exact analogue to Trump. He is strongly committed to Brexit, but he does not have the same kind of hard right, nationalist world view which informs his policy on pretty much every issue in the same way that Trump does. He is more of an opportunist, with not much in the way of a guiding philosophy.

    I dont know who would be the ideal replacement. I've always thought that Katie Hopkins or Arron Banks seem like the best analogues in both political beliefs and background, but neither have been members of the Conservative Party to my knowledge, much less Conservative MPs. If you want a member of parliament, I might suggest Phillip Davies.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 5:53 AM
    King Jasper likes this.
  5. Gentleman Biaggi Leader of the bisexual agenda

    Oct 14, 2016
    Oregonian Montana
    aren't these credit cards that limit your purchases based on their carbon emissions?
    why has the republican party gone authleft??????????????
    gap80 likes this.
  6. Ventriloquist Well-Known Member

    May 19, 2013
    A Wet Neoliberalism


    1977-1981: Gerald Ford (R-MI)/Bob Dole (R-KS)
    1981-1983: Henry M. Jackson (D-WA)/Mo Udall (D-AZ)
    1983-1993: Mo Udall (D-AZ)/Paul Tsongas (D-MA)

    1993-2001: Howard Baker (R-TN)/Arlen Specter (R-PA)
    2001-2005: Arlen Specter (R-PA)/Donald Rumsfeld (R-IL)

    2005-2009: Al Gore (D-TN)/Barack Obama (D-IL)
    2009-2013: Jeb Bush (R-FL)/Sarah Palin (R-AK)
    2013-present: Keith Ellison (D-MN)/Jim McDermott (D-WA)


    1976-1983: James Callaghan (Labour)
    1983-1996: William Whitelaw (Conservative)
    1996-2004: Gordon Brown (Labour)
    2004-2013: Ken Clarke (Conservative)
    2013-present: Robin Cook (Labour)

    So this might be a bit of a lefty-wank or a utopia or whatever, but tbh I don't really care. Don't feel like going into specifics, but basically, ITTL Ford wins in 1976, so Thatcher loses in 1978 and Reagan loses in 1980, and their respective extremist wings are marginalised. Neoliberalism still happens ITTL, because it was inevitable since the post-war consensus was on its last legs, but it's carried out much less viciously as the evangelicals and Thatcherites and all that are shut out of the top levels of government. This is a net positive if you think politics should be rational and moderate and all that shit. The benefit of this is that the financial crisis and subsequent recession, which is also inevitable ITTL, happens a couple of years later than IOTL. As per Mark Blyth, the era of neoliberalism still ends and the era of neo-nationalism still begins, but you don't have Brexit, you don't have Trump, and you ultimately have a much stronger and more engaged working class in the west than you do IOTL.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 4:10 AM
  7. BlackentheBorg Just like Dylan's Mr. Jones

    Jun 2, 2015
    Yes, it's those, but Zolnikov introduced what would BECOME Carbon Cards. He starts out with something resembling an Emissions Trading Scheme, mostly at the urging of Vice President Backer (who sells himself as a 'Conservative environmentalist'), but it only covers Energy and Waste -- things like forestry and farming go on unabated. The Bakhtiari administration takes this and expands it, crushing any criticism by pointing out how the GOP were the ones that started it in the first place.
    Gentleman Biaggi likes this.
  8. themannis24 Member

    Aug 2, 2016
    Post War Britain : A Tale Of Two Party’s ( 1945 – 2017)

    Sir Archibald Sinclair ( 26 July 1945 – 24 November 1952).

    1945 (Landslide) : Winston Churchill ( Conservative), Clement Attlee (Labour), Ernest Brown (Liberal National).
    1950 ( Liberal Majority) : Winston Churchill, Hebert Morrison (Labour).

    Megan Lloyd George (24 November 1952 – 12 March 1954)

    Sir Anthony Eden (12 March 1954 – 24 April 1959)

    1954 (Majority) : Megan Lloyd George (Liberal), Hebert Morrison ( Labour)

    Harold Macmillan (24 April 1959 – 16 October 1963)
    1959 (Majority) : Sir Anthony Eden ( Conservative), Aneurin Bevan (Labour)

    Anthony Crosland (16 October 1963 – 14 June 1968)
    1964 (Majority) : Rab Butler (Conservative), Harold Wilson (Labour)

    Enoch Powell (14 June 1968 – 11 February 1975)
    1968 (Majority) : Anthony Crosland (Liberal), Harold Wilson (Labour).
    1973 (Majority) : Roy Jenkins (Liberal), James Callaghan (Labour)

    Margaret Thatcher (11 February 1975 – 8 May 1981)
    1977 (Majority) : Anthony Benn (Liberal), Michael Foot (Labour).

    Shirley Williams (8 May 1981 – 4 March 1987)
    1981 (Majority) : Margaret Thatcher (Conservative), Michael Foot (Labour)
    1985 (Landslide) : Michael Heseltine (Conservative), Neil Knnock (Labour).

    David Owen (4 March 1987 – 21 July 1995)
    1989 (Majority) : Michael Heseltine (Conservative), John Smith (Labour).
    1993 (Majority) : John Major (Conservative), John Smith (Labour).

    Paddy Ashdown (21 July 1995 – 2 May 1997)

    Michael Portillo (2 May 1997 – 6 November 2003)
    1997 (Landslide) : Paddy Ashdown (Lib Dem), Gordon Brown (Labour).
    2001 (Majority) : Charles Kennedy (Lib Dem), Gordon Brown (Labour).

    Michael Howard (6 November 2003 – 6 December 2005)
    2005 (minority) : Charles Kennedy (Lib Dem), Peter Mandelson (Labour), Roger Knapman (UKIP)

    David Cameron (6 December 2005 – 4 May 2007)

    Anthony ‘Tony’ Blair (4 May 2007 – 13 July 2016)
    2007 (Majority) : David Cameron (Conservative), Peter Mandelson (Labor), Nigel Farage (UKIP)
    2011 (Majority) : David Davis (Conservative), Peter Mandelson (Labor), Nigel Farage (UKIP)
    2015 (Majority) : David Davis (Conservative), Harriet Harman (Labor), Nigel Farage (UKIP)

    David Laws (13 July 2016 – incumbent)
    2019 (Majority) : George Osborne (Conservative), Jeremy Corby (Labour), Nigel Farage (UKIP),
    2023 : Jeremy Hunt (Conservative), Jeremy Corby (Labour), Anne Marie Waters (UKIP), Andy Burnham (Independent Socialists)

    Leaders of party’s

    Liberal Party (1916 – 1983)
    H.H. Asquith (30 April 1908 – 14 December 1918)

    David Lloyd George (14 December 1918 – 21 November 1922)

    Sir Donald Maclean (21 November 1922 – 24 January 1924)

    David Lloyd George (24 January 1924 - 4 November 1931)

    Sir Hebert Samuel ( 4 November 1931 – 26 November 1935)

    Sir Archibald Sinclair ( 26 November 1935 – 24 November 1952)

    Megan Lloyd George ( 24 November 1952 – 14 December 1955)

    Harold Macmillan (14 December 1955 – 16 October 1963)

    Anothey Crosland (16 October 1963 – 11 October 1968)

    Jo Grimond (11 October 1968 - 12 January 1969)

    Roy Jenkins (12 January 1969 – 9 July 1973)

    Anthony Benn ( 9 July 1973 – 16 October 1978)

    Shirley Williams ( 16 October 1978 – 3 March 1983)

    Leaders of the Liberal Democrats

    Shirley Williams (3 March 1983 – 4 March 1987)

    David Owen (4 March 1987 – 22 June 1995)

    Bob Maclennan (22 June 1995 – 21 July 1995) (Acting)

    Padded Ashdown (21 July 1995 – 11 August 1999)

    Charles Kennedy (11 August 1999 – 7 January 2006)

    Menzies Campbell (7 January 2006 – 2 March 2006) (acting)

    Anthony Blair (2 March 2006 – 11 July 2016)

    David Laws (11 July 2016 – Incumbent)

    Leaders of the Conservative Party (1922 – 2019)

    Andrew Law (23 October 1922 – 22 May 1923)

    Stanley Baldwin (22 May 1923 – 4 November 1924)

    Austen Chamberlain (5 November 1924 – 6 January 1930)

    Stanley Baldwin (6 January 1930 – 27 May 1937)

    Neville Chamberlain ( 27 May 1937 – 9 October 1940)

    Winston Churchill (9 November 1940 – 11 March 1950)

    Anthony Eden (11 March 1950 – 16 April 1960)

    Sir Alec’s Douglas Home (16 April 1960 – 27 July 1965)

    Enoch Powell (27 July 1965 – 11 February 1975)

    Margaret Thatcher (11 February 1975 – 13 October 1981)

    William Whitelaw ( 13 October 1981 – 5 September 1983)

    Michel Heseltine ( 5 September 1983 – 28 November 1990)

    John Major (28 November 1990 – 14 October 1994)

    Michael Portillo (14 October 1994 – 3 November 2003)

    Chris Pattern (3 November 2003 – 6 December 2005)

    David Cameron (6 December 2005 – 7 September 2009)

    David Davis (7 September 2009 – 20 July 2017)

    George Osborne (20 July 2017 – 22 July 2019)

    Jeremy Hunt (22 July 2019 – incumbent)

    Leaders of the Labour Party

    Ramsay McDonald ( 21 November 1922 – 28 August 1931)

    Arthur Henderson (28 August 1931 – 25 October 1932)

    George Lansbury (25 October 1932 – 8 October 1935)

    Clement Attlee (8 October 1935 – 26 July 1945)

    Herbert Morrison (26 July 1945 – 12 April 1954)

    Aneurin Bevan (12 April 1954 – 6 July 1960)

    George Brown (6 July 1960 – 3 November 1960)

    Harold Wilson (3 November 1960 – 16 October 1968)

    James Callaghan (16 October 1968 – 12 September 1974)

    Michael Foot (12 September 1974 – 10 November 1980)

    Denis Healey (10 November 1980 – 2 October 1983)

    Neil Kinnock (2 October 1983 – 13 July 1987)

    John Smith (13 July 1987 – 12 May 1994)

    Margaret Beckett (12 May 1994 – 21 July 1994)

    Gordon Brown (21 July 1994 – 8 September 2004)

    Peter Mandelson (8 September 2004 – 25 September 2010)

    Harriet Harman (25 September 2010 – 12 September 2015)

    Jeremy Corbyn (12 September 2015 – incumbent)


    Kennedy Survives but Resigned from office.

    Presidents of the United States (1969 – 2021)

    37. Richard Nixon (January 20, 1969 - January 20, 1977) (Vice President George Romney (69 - 73) ,George Bush (73 - 77)

    38. George Bush (January 20, 1977 - January 20, 1981) (Vice President Daniel J. Evans)

    39. Edward M. Kennedy ( January 20, 1981 - January 20, 1985) (Vice President Henry M. Jackson (81 – 83),Rubén Askew (83-85)

    40.Rubén Askew (January 20, 1985 – January 20, 1989) (Vice President Geraldine Ferraro)

    41. Jack Kemp (January 20, 1989 – January 20, 1997) (Vice President Nancy Kassebaum)

    42. Mario Cuomo (January 20, 1997 – January 20, 2005) (Vice President Richard Gephardt)

    43. John McCain (January 20, 2005 – January 20, 2009) (Vice President Rick Santorum)

    44. Hilary Clinton (January 20,2009 – January 20,2013) (Vice President Evan Bayh)

    45.Jon Huntsman (January 20, 2013 – incumbent) (Vice President Cathy McMorris Rodgers)

    Election President : Senator Barack Obama

    Presidential elections 1964 – 2020
    1964: President John F. Kennedy/Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson defeated Senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona/Governor of Pennsylvania William Scranton (1)

    1968: Former Vice President Richard M. Nixon/Governor of Michigan George Romney defeated Senator Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota/Senator Ed Muskie of Marine

    1972: President Richard M. Nixon/Senator George Bush of Texas defeated Senator George McGovern of South Dakota/Senator Thomas Eagleton of Missouri

    1976: Vice President George Bush/Governor Daniel J. Evans of Washington defeated Senator Ed Muskie of Marine/former governor of Georgia Jimmy Carter

    1980: Senator Edward ‘Ted’ Kennedy of Massachusetts/Senator Henry M. Jackson of Washington defeated former governor Ronald Reagan/Senator Robert ‘Bob’ Dole (2)

    1984: Vice President Ruben Askew/Senator John Glenn of Ohio defeated Senator Robert ‘Bob’ Dole/Representative Phill Crane from Illinois

    1988 : Representative from New York Jack Kemp/Senator Nancy Kassebaum defeated Senator Al Gore of Tennessee/Senator Joe Biden of Delaware

    1992 : President Jack Kemp/Vice President Nancy Kassebaum defeated Governor Bill Clinton/Senator John Kerry

    1996 : Governor Mario Cuomo of New York/Speaker of the House Richard Gephardt defeated Seantor Robert ‘Bob’ Dole/Former Governor Carroll A.Campbell

    2000 : President Mario Cuomo/Vice President Richard Gephardt defeated former Senator Dan Quayle/Speaker Of The House Ted Bundy

    2004 : Senator John McCain of Anzoin/Senator Rick Santorum defeated Vice President Richard ‘Dick’ Gephardt/Senator John Edwards of North Carolina

    2008 : Senator of New York Hilary Clinton/Senator Evan Bayh defeated President John McCain/Vice President Rick Santorum

    2012 : Governor of Utah Jon Huntsman/Representative Cathy McMorris Rodgers of Washington defeated Sec of State Joe Biden/Senator of New York Kirsten Gillibrand

    2016 : President Jon Huntsman/Vice President Cathy McMorris Rodgers defeated Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont/Representative Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii

    2020: Senator Barack Obama of Illinois/Senator Kamala Harris of California defeated Senator Ted Cruz of Texas/Governor Charlie Baker of Massachusetts.

    Here are some footnotes :

    1. President John F. Kennedy survive the assassination attempt in Dellas and go's on to win the 1964 election, however with his health deteriorated Kennedy resign from office in August 12, 1966 and his Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson becomes the 36th president.

    2. President George Bush got screw out of his reelection campaign by the religious right backing former governor Ronald Reagan and the Republican Party fell into a fight between them selfs, so the Democratic Party narrowly won the election.
  9. Luke_Starkiller Opportunity Democrat; Cold War Junkie

    Mar 7, 2016
    B-Town, USA
    Inspired by that one user's LCD Soundsystem-themed list, here's a Talking Heads one

    39. "This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around."
    1977-1981: Gov. Jerry Brown / Sen. Birch Bayh (Democratic)
    Def. 1976: Gerald Ford / Bob Dole (Republican)

    40. "Same as it ever was, Same as it ever was"
    1981-1989: Fmr. Sec. of the Treasury John Connally / Rep. Phil Crane (Republican)
    Def. 1980: Jerry Brown / Elizabeth Holtzmann (Democratic); Fred Harris / Ron Dellums ("True" Democratic)
    Def. 1984: Bob Casey / Tony Coelho (Democratic)

    41. "Moving into the universe, and she's drifting this way and that / Not touching the ground at all, and she's up above the yard"
    1989-1991: Rep. Charlie Wilson / Fmr. Gov. Bob Graham (Democratic)
    Def. 1988: Phil Crane / Lamar Alexander (Republican)

    42. "In my mind, the weather never changes / Skill overcomes difficult situations"

    1991-1991: Vice Pres. Bob Graham / vacant (Democratic)
    1991-1997: Pres. Bob Graham / Sen. Bob Kerrey (Democratic)
    Def. 1992: Richard Lugar / Mike Curb (Republican); Bob Dornan / Ralph Reed (Taxpayers')

    43. "Mommy, Daddy, come and look at me now / I'm a big man in a great big town"
    1997-2005: Sen. David Eisenhower / Sen. John Engler (Republican)
    Def. 1996: Kurt Schmoke / Pat Leahy (Democratic)
    Def. 2000: Jay Rockefeller / Barbara Mikluski (Democratic)

    44. "You start a conversation you can't even finish it / You're talkin' a lot, but you're not sayin' anything"
    2005-2009: Sen. Bill Richardson / Rep. Doug Racine (Democratic)
    Def. 2004: John Engler / Rick Lazio (Republican)

    45. "They've enlisted all their family /They've enlisted all their friends / It helped saved their relationship / And made it work again"
    2009-2017: Gov. Bob Riley / Sen. Chuck Hagel (Republican)
    Def. 2008: Bill Richardson / Doug Racine (Democratic)
    Def. 2012: Jay Inslee / Carol C. Johnson (Democratic)

    46. "Towns that dissapeared completely / Pull up the roost, pull up the roots"
    2017-present: Gov. Richard Cordray / Rep. Kwame Raoul (Democratic)
    Def. 2016: Chris Shays / Jeffrey Atwater (Republican)
  10. CapitalistHippie's token libertarian

    Apr 11, 2018
    With apologies to Marilyn Manson:
    The Beautiful People
    "And I don't want you, and I don't need you./Don't bother to resist or I'll beat you."
    38. George Wallace/Sam Yorty 1973-1977

    1972: Def. Edmund Muskie/Alan Cranston, Richard Nixon/Spiro Agnew
    It's not your fault that you're always wrong
    39. George McGovern/Jimmy Carter 1977-1981
    1976: Def. Ronald Reagan/Gerald Ford, George Wallace/Sam Yorty
    The weak are there to justify the strong.
    40. Alexander Haig/Jack Kemp 1981-1989
    1980: Def. George McGovern/Jimmy Carter, Sam Yorty/Jesse Helms
    1984: Def. Ted Kennedy/Paul Tsongas, Jesse Helms/Larry MacDonald
    The beautiful people, the beautiful people/It's all relative to the size of your steeple.
    41. Pat Robertson/Trent Lott 1989-1993
    1988: Def. Mario Cuomo/Jerry Brown, Jack Kemp/Newt Gingrich
    You can't see the forest for the trees/You can't smell your own shit on your knees.
    42. Gary Hart/Jesse Jackson 1993-1995
    1992: Def. Pat Robertson/Trent Lott, Colin Powell/Jim Jeffords
    There's no time to discriminate/Hate every motherfucker/That's in your way
    43. Jesse Jackson/Jerry Brown 1995-1997
    Hey you, what do you see?/Something beautiful or something free?
    44. Ron Paul/Gary Johnson 1997-2001
    1996: Def. Trent Lott/Alan Keyes, Jesse Jackson/Jerry Brown
    Hey, you, are you trying to be mean?/If you live with the apes man it's hard to be clean
    45. Rick Santorum/Mike Huckabee 2001-2005
    2000: Def. Bill Bradley/Sam Nunn, Ron Paul/Gary Johnson
    The worms will live in every host/It's hard to pick which one they eat the most
    46. Joe Lieberman/Joe Biden 2005-2009
    2004: Def. Rick Santorum/Mike Huckabee, Jon Huntsman/Connie Mack IV
    The horrible people, the horrible people/It's as anatomic as the size of your steeple.
    47. Mark Sanford/Bill Weld 2009-2013
    2008: Def. Joe Lieberman/Joe Biden, Mike Huckabee/Sarah Palin
    Capitalism has made it this way/Old-fashioned fascism will take it away!
    48. David Duke/Steve King 2013-
    2012: Def. Joe Biden/Deval Patrick, Bill Weld/John Engler
    2016: Def. Russ Feingold/Greg Orman, Rand Paul/Austin Petersen

    38. This is meant to be by Wallace/Yorty at their rivals in the election and at counterculture/civil rights protestors respectively
    39. McGovern and Carter are two good men who try to do the right thing, but end up reckoning with a lot of bad luck.
    40. McGovern's failures allowed Haig to triumph
    41. Robertson has a pretty big actual steeple
    42. Hart was apparently a bit haughty and full of himself.
    43. Jackson has a rather abrasive reputation.
    44. Paul has a bold vision for the future.
    45. Santorum prides himself on being holier-than-thou, but as a president is somewhat corrupt and thoroughly hypocritical
    46. Lieberman embodies a stale establishment that nobody really likes
    47. Joke about sex scandals ('anatomic as the size of your steeple')
    48. Duke is a fascist.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 3:01 AM
  11. Shirking Violet Member

    Jul 29, 2013

    I'm not at all sure I understand the connections between presidents and songs, but speaking as a big Talking Heads fan, this made me smile :)
  12. Luke_Starkiller Opportunity Democrat; Cold War Junkie

    Mar 7, 2016
    B-Town, USA
    "This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around."
    A reference to how the presidency of Jerry Brown is the dying gasp of sixties cultural liberalism and is more specifically a reference to Brown's OTL "Era of Limits" speech.

    "Same as it ever was, Same as it ever was"
    References the election of Connally, a Nixon official, and the re-employment of Nixonian center-right economic policies to solve the woes of the late seventies.

    "Moving into the universe, and she's drifting this way and that / Not touching the ground at all, and she's up above the yard"
    A lyric from a song about LSD, it was selected for America's first cokehead president, Charlie Wilson, who gets caught using the booger sugar and resigns.

    "In my mind, the weather never changes / Skill overcomes difficult situations"
    Graham, a canny political operator since his Florida days, overcomes what was supposed to be a surefire defeat in 1992 (after the resignation of Wilson) and a faltering economy to win a full term of his own.

    "Mommy, Daddy, come and look at me now / I'm a big man in a great big town"
    The grandson of President Eisenhower climbs his way through Pennsylvanian politics to attain the Presidency.

    "You start a conversation you can't even finish it / You're talkin' a lot, but you're not sayin' anything"
    Bill Richardson is a standard slimy, "promise-everything-and-deliver-none-of-it" type of politician, and the walls crumble around him during the financial crisis.

    "They've enlisted all their family /They've enlisted all their friends / It helped saved their relationship / And made it work again"
    A reference to the Compassionate Conservatism^tm and communitarian social policies employed by the Riley administration in revitalizing the economy.

    "Towns that dissapeared completely / Pull up the roost, pull up the roots"
    Richard Cordray fights to be the hero of the Rust Belt and to revive moribund sectors of the economy.
  13. PopulistBean All Hail God Emperor Nixon

    Mar 3, 2019
    1897-1901: William McKinley / Sergei Yulyevich Witte (Republican)
    def. 1896 William Jennings Bryan / Arthur Sewall (Democratic) - def. 1900 William Jennings Bryan / Adlai Stevenson I (Democratic)
    1901-1905: Sergei Yulyevich Witte / Vacant (1901-1905) (Republican)

    Sworn in 1901
    1905-1909: Albert J. Beveridge / Frank S. Black (Republican)
    def. 1904 John Sharp Williams / Grover Cleveland (Democratic)
    1909-1916: Sergei Yulyevich Witte / Elihu Root (Independent)
    def. 1908 Albert J. Beveridge / Frank S. Black (Republican) and William Jennings Bryan / John W. Kern (Democratic) - def. 1912 Theodore Roosevelt / Hiram W. Johnson (Progressive), Albert B. Cummins / Charles W. Fairbanks (Republican), John Burke / Judson Harmin (Democratic), and Eugene V. Debs / Emil Seidel (Socialist)
    1916-1921: Elihu Root / Vacant (1916-1916) Charles Evans Hughes (1916-1921) (Independent)
    Sworn in 1916 - def. 1916 James "Champ" Clark / Thomas R. Marshall (Democratic) and Charles W. Fairbanks / Theodore E. Burton (Republican)

    1921-1929: John Sharp Williams / James M. Cox (Democratic)
    def. 1920 Franklin Delano Roosevelt / Calvin Coolidge (Republican) - def. 1924 Frank Orren Lowden / Warren G. Harding (Republican)
    1929-1937: Charles Evans Hughes / Alfred M. Landon (Independent Republican)
    def. 1928 James M. Cox / Henry Ford (Democratic) - def. 1932 Henry Ford / James A. Reed (Democratic)
    1937-1945: Alfred M. Landon / Joseph I. France (Republican)
    def. 1936 John Nance Garner / William H. Murray (Democratic) - def. 1940 William B. Bankhead / Harry F. Byrd (Democratic)
    1945-1953: Arthur Gershwin / Dwight D. Eisenhower (Independent)
    def. 1944 Harry F. Byrd / Harry S. Truman (Democratic) and Douglas MacArthur / Various (Republican) - def. 1948 Harry S. Truman / Alben W. Barkley (Democratic) and George S. Patton / Various (Republican)
    1953-1957: Dwight D. Eisenhower / Adlai Stevenson II (Independent)
    def. 1952 Hubert H. Humphrey / Edmund "Pat" Brown Sr. (Democratic) - endorsed by the Republican Party
    1957-1965: Hubert H. Humphrey / George A. Smathers (Democratic)
    def. 1956 Adlai Stevenson II / Estes E. Kefauver (Independent) and Joseph J. Foss / William W. Scranton (Republican) - def. 1960 Nelson A. Rockefeller / Cecil H. Underwood (Republican)
    1965-1973: Richard M. Nixon / John M. Ashbrook (Independent)
    def. 1964 Barry M. Goldwater / Ronald W. Reagan (Republican) and George A. Smathers / John F. Kennedy (Democratic) - def. 1968 Lyndon B. Johnson / Stephen M. Young (Democratic) and Paul "Pete" McCloskey / John V. Lindsey (Republican)
    1973-1981: John V. Lindsey / Hiram L. Fong (Independent Republican)
    def. 1972 John F. Kennedy / Mo K. Udall (Democratic) - def. 1976 George C. Wallace / Edward M. Kennedy (Democratic)
    1981-1989: Richard M. Nixon / Gerald R. Ford (Independent)
    def. 1980 Jimmy E. Carter / Gary W. Hunt (Democratic) - def. 1984 Joseph R. Biden / Thomas F. Eagleton (Democratic)
    1989-1997: Joseph "Bob" Kerrey / William J. Blythe (Democratic)
    def. 1988 Richard M. Nixon / Gerald R. Ford (Independent endorsed by the Republican Party) - def. 1992 Alan L. Keyes / James "Dan" Quayle (Republican)
    1997-2005: Henry Ross Perot / George H. W. Bush (Independent)
    def. 1996 William J. Blythe / Albert "Al" Gore Jr. (Democratic) and William Philip Gramm / Franklin Delano Roosevelt III (Republican) - def. 2000 Andre Verne Marrou / Patrick J. Buchanan (Republican) and Patricia Nell Scott Schroeder / Paul E. Tsongas (Democratic)
    2005-2009: Franklin Delano Roosevelt III / John McCain III (Republican)
    def. 2004 William W. Bradley / Howard Dean III (Democratic)
    2009-????: Vladimir V. Putin / Boleslaw Sander (Independent)
    def. 2008 Franklin Delano Roosevelt III / John McCain III (Republican) and Lincoln D. Chafee / James "Jim" Webb (Democratic) - def. 2012 Darcy G. Richardson / James "Jim" Rogers and John McCain III / Newton L. Gingrich (Republican) - def. 2016 James "Jim" Rogers / Various (Democratic) and Marco A. Rubio / George E. Pataki (Republican) - def. 2020 Charlie D. Baker / Elizabeth A. Warren (National Union)
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 3:02 PM
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  14. The_Russian Well-Known Member

    Sep 13, 2017
    How? He wasn’t even American
  15. redjirachi Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2018
    All Men Must Die: The Worst President

    POD is that James Buchanan ends up a victim of the National Hotel disease. Yes, his death actually makes things worse because sometimes I can be sadistic like that

    15(first term): James Buchanan*/John C Breckinridge(March 4-March 17 1857)[1]
    16(first term): John C Breckinridge(March 17 1857-March 4 1861)
    -Election of 1860: John C Breckinridge/Jefferson Davis(Southern Democrat) vs Stephen Douglas/James Guthrie(Northern Democrat) vs William Seward/Abraham Lincoln(Republican)[2]
    17(first term): William Seward/Abraham Lincoln(March 4 1861-March 4 1865)
    -Election of 1864: William Seward/Abraham Lincoln(election suspended)
    17(second term): William Seward**/Abraham Lincoln(March 4 1865-March 15 1867)[3]
    18(first term): Abraham Lincoln(March 15 1867-March 4 1869)[4]
    -Election of 1868: Cassius Clay/Hannibal Hamlin(Republican) vs Andrew Johnson/Salmon P Chase(Democrat)
    19(first term): Cassius Clay/Hannibal Hamlin(March 4 1869-March 4 1873)[5]
    -Election of 1872: Cassius Clay/Hannibal Hamlin(Republican) vs Andrew Johnson/Thomas Hendricks(Democrat)
    19(second term): Cassius Clay/Hannibal Hamlin(March 4 1873-March 4 1877)
    -Election of 1876: Hannibal Hamlin/Rutherford B Hayes(Republican) vs Abram Hewitt/Thomas A Hendricks(Democrat) vs Theodore Roosevelt Sr/William Allen(Labor)
    20(first term): Abram Hewitt/Thomas A Hendricks(March 4 1877-March 4 1881)
    -Election of 1880: Abram Hewitt/Thomas A Hendricks(Democrat) vs John Sherman/James Garfield(Republican) vs James B Weaver/Hendrick B Wright(Labor)
    20(second term): Abram Hewitt/Thomas A Hendricks(March 4 1881-March 4 1885)

    [1]A day after inauguration, President Buchanan fell ill due to what he had contracted from the National Hotel disease. Spending most of his presidency bedridden, at 13 days his is by far the shortest presidency to date. The youngest president to date, John C Breckinridge is also considered the worst for his enabling of the slave powers and admission of the state of Kansas as a slave state. But the slave powers, the Deep South, they loved him for it. Thus, the Election of 1860 was for the heart of the country, the ultimate deciding factor in the South and North's relationship to come.
    [2]Breckinridge may have won election in his own right had the Democrats not fractured. This would be Seward's opportunity. The South was enraged, and the Civil War broke out. Breckinridge became the Confederate President, and for this is remembered as the greatest traitor in American history. It was a bloody battle that lasted for six years. Seward would have Breckinridge hung and lay his vengeance among the South. The cancer of slavery was removed, but it left a gash. Seward and Lincoln often fought each other about this. Breckinridge hung, dying a traitor's death. And cries remained that the South would rise again
    [3]Seward had fought against the tyranny of the slavocracy, only to become one himself. He suspended the elections, though there wasn't much in the way of challengers. "As God as my witness, I will ensure the evil of slavery never emerges again!" The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and Seward was facing impeachment protocols. Then everything changed. John Wilkes Booth struck down the president, fittingly during the Ides of March, to avenge the South and to end the tyranny of Seward. In many ways, Booth is a modern day Brutus-reviled for the murder of a great man, or a necessary evil to a man corrupted by power. Seward is seen as a tragic villain, a man who fought for the right cause, but did so in the wrong way
    [4]Abraham Lincoln followed a traitor and a dictator. Had Seward not become the latter, he would've left the office and avoided the vice presidency. Immediately, Lincoln focused on reconciliation and redemption. "We must learn to forgive the South, or they will never forgive us". "Lincoln the Redeemer" is remembered as one of the greatest presidents for this, working hard to resolve the anger left from the conflict. And he could've easily become president in his own right. But instead he chose not to.
    [5]Clay continued the good spirit left behind by Lincoln. Cousin once removed to Henry Clay, to some he passed his relative's legendary status. To others, he coasted off Lincoln and his involvement with Reconstruction is overrated. Andrew Johnson ran against him, believing "we need a Southerner to save the South, and a man loyal to the Union to keep the Union. And I am saddled with this difficult task, it would seem". Ultimately, the Democrats would make gains and win the White House in 1876, under the hope of restoring glory to it once more
    [6]Hamlin had been a force of sanity and security. A rarity of a popular VP. And enough that he was chosen for the 1876 election. Benjamin Wade would form a new party for "true freedom". But it would be the philanthropist Hewitt, son-in-law to Peter Cooper, who took it by storm. Well-regarded for his Southern restoration plans.

    Abridged list
    • 15: James Buchanan*/John C Breckinridge(1857)
    • 16: John C Breckinridge(1857-1861)
    • 17: William Seward**/Abraham Lincoln(1861-1867)
    • 18: Abraham Lincoln(1867-1869)
    • 19: Cassius Clay/Hannibal Hamlin(1869-1877)
    • 20: Abram Hewitt/Thomas A Hendricks(1877-1885)
  16. InfernoMole RWBY delenda est

    Aug 12, 2016
    Moscow, Russia
    ...Come again?
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  17. PopulistBean All Hail God Emperor Nixon

    Mar 3, 2019
    His parents immigrated to America right before he is born in that universe.
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  18. redjirachi Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2018
    You Either Die A Hero, Or Live To See Yourself Become The Villain

    Aka what happens when I flip Nixon and Kennedy for fun. A more simple list not to be taken seriously
    • 35: Richard Nixon**/Henry Cabot Lodge(1961-1963)
    • 36: Henry Cabot Lodge(1963-1965)/William Miller(1965-1969)
    • 37: John F Kennedy/Terry Sanford(1969-1974)
    • 38: Terry Sanford(1974-1977)
    • 39: George Bush/Bob Dole(1977-1985)

    They Live: The Great Emancipator, Savior Of The Union

    16(second term): Abraham Lincoln/Andrew Johnson(March 4 1865-March 4 1869)[1]
    -Election of 1868: Ulysses S Grant/Reuben E Fenton(Republican) vs George H Pendleton/Francis P Blair(Demcorat)[2]
    17(first term): Ulysses S Grant/Reuben E Fenton(March 4 1869-March 4 1873)
    -Election of 1872: Ulysses S Grant/Reuben E Fenton(Republican) vs Charles F Adams/Thomas A Hendricks(Liberal Republican/Democrat)
    17(second term): Ulysses S Grant/Reuben E Fenton(March 4 1873-March 4 1877)
    -Election of 1876: Roscoe Conkling/Rutherford B Hayes(Republican) vs Samuel J Tilden/Thomas A Hendricks(Democrat)[3]
    18(first term): Samuel J Tilden/Thomas A Hendricks(March 4 1877-March 4 1881)
    -Election of 1880: Samuel J Tilden/Richard M Bishop(Democrat) vs Elihu B Washburne/Horace Maynard(Republican) vs James B Weaver/Theodore Roosevelt Sr(Fair Union)[4]
    19(first term): Elihu B Washburne(March 4 1881-March 4 1885)/Horace Maynard*(March 4 1881-May 3 1882)
    -Election of 1884: Elihu B Washburne/Robert Todd Lincoln(Republican) vs Grover Cleveland/Thomas F Bayard(Democrat) vs James B Weaver/Peter Cooper(Fair Union)
    19(second term): Elihu B Washburne*/Robert Todd Lincoln(March 4 1885-October 23 1887)
    20(first term): Robert Todd Lincoln(October 23 1887-March 4 1889)[5]
    -Election of 1888: Robert Todd Lincoln/Levi P Morton(Republican) vs Isaac P Grey/Theodore Roosevelt Sr(Democrat)
    21(first term): Isaac P Grey/Theodore Roosevelt Sr(March 4 1889-March 4 1893)
    -Election of 1892: Isaac P Grey/Theodore Roosevelt Sr(Democrat) vs Thomas Edison/Mark Hanna(Republican)[6]
    21(second term): Isaac P Grey*/Theodore Roosevelt Sr(March 4 1893-February 14 1895)
    22(first term): Theodore Roosevelt Sr(February 14 1895-March 4 1897)
    -Election of 1896: Adlai Stevenson I/Horace Boies(Democrat) vs Robert Todd Lincoln/Thomas B Reed(Republican) vs Frank B Sargent/Eugene V Debs(Socialist)[7]
    HR: Adlai Stevenson(1st EV, 2nd PV), Robert Todd Lincoln(2nd EV, 1st PV), Frank B Sargent(3rd)
    23(second term): Robert Todd Lincoln/Thomas B Reed(March 4 1897-March 4 1901)
    -Election of 1900: Frederick Dent Grant/William Randolph Hearst(Republican) vs Alton Brooks Parker/Julian Carr(Democrat) vs Frank B Sargent/Tad Lincoln(Socialist)
    HR: Alton Brooks Parker(1st), Frank B Sargent(2nd), Frederick Dent Grant(3rd)[8]
    24(first term): Alton Brooks Parker/Tad Lincoln(March 4 1901-March 4 1905)
    -Election of 1904: Alton Brooks Parker/Nelson A Miles(Democrat) vs Henry Ford/George Washington Carroll(Republican) vs Daniel De Leon/Elias Charles Disney(Socialist)
    25(first term): Daniel De Leon/Elias Charles Disney(March 4 1905-March 4 1909)[9]
    -Election of 1908: Henry Cantwell Wallace/Frank W Arnold(Socialist) vs Oliver Twain/Max Campbell(Democrat) vs Joseph B Foraker/Mortimer Oswald(Republican)[10]
    26(first term): Henry Cantwell Wallace/Frank W Arnold(March 4 1909-March 4 1913)
    -Election of 1912: Josiah Ruggles Wilson/Elias Charles Disney(Socialist) vs Theodore Roosevelt/Oscar Underwood(Democrat) vs William H Taft/Alexander Blake(Republican)
    27(first term): Theodore Roosevelt/Oscar Underwood(March 4 1913-March 4 1917)
    -Election of 1916: Theodore Roosevelt/Oscar Underwood(Democrat) vs Henry Ford/John M Parker(Republican) vs Alistair Harrison/Ashton Rimmer(Socialist)
    27(second term): Theodore Roosevelt/Oscar Underwood(March 4 1917-March 4 1921)
    -Election of 1920: Thomas Grace Coolidge/Arnold Hewitt(Republican) vs Arthur Meredith/William Henry Roosevelt(Democrat) vs Elias Charles Disney/Max Dunne(Socialist)
    28(first term): Elias Charles Disney/Max Dunne(March 4 1921-March 4 1925)
    -Election of 1924: Ronald Debs/Max Dunne(Socialist) vs Michael Oswald/John Heidler(Democrat) vs Robert M.La Follette Sr/Samuel King(Republican)
    29(first term): Robert M.La Follette Sr/Samuel King(March 4 1925-March 4 1929)

    [1]POD is meant to be badass. Robert decides to go with his parents to Ford's Theater, and sits in a way where Booth would have trouble getting up close like he needs with his derringer. Robert realizes what's happening and slugs Booth, allowing father and son to take the gun and stop the attempt. Somewhere a young T.R is crying in joy. Asides from that, a better Reconstruction can occur under Lincoln's watch
    [2]Grant still gets chosen because of how popular he is, Lincoln himself being fond of him. While he continues the more positive Reconstruction policies, the Gilded Age is still a thing with or without Lincoln's survival, and he does face some charge of administrative corruption. However Fenton is a more honest VP and Grant sticks with him the full eight years
    [3]Though there is still quite a bit of bigotry against blacks, and more so in the south, Jim Crow laws, voter repression of blacks and attempts to virtually deny the 14th and 15th amendments in the south are far less than OTL, thanks to 12 years of proper Reconstruction and no Andy J getting a job at a time where he'd mess it up. As such, the Democrats have a more honest election, though as much any election in the Gilded Age can be. The Republicans had an intentional darkhorse, who Half-Breeds were quick to blame for why they lost it.
    [4]The Election of 1880 saw the rise of a strong third party, the Fair Union. It added the fledgling Greenbacks in and promised "fair wages, protection from monopolies and respect for the common man". Theodore Roosevelt Sr was the first running mate, to James B Weaver as the first candidate. To some, they decided the Election of 1880
    [5]Robert Todd Lincoln was a man living in two shadows. Washburne was a great president, and his father perhaps the single greatest president of them all. The younger Lincoln would see his father's funeral on January 23 1888, and end up losing to the Democratic ticket. However he would return for a term of his own, playing an important military and economic role. Some see him as underrated, others see his post-presidency as more important. The Democrats took the Fair Union under their wing. Theodore Sr once said to his son "there is one think you must never let yourself fall into, and that's the vice presidency". Ironic, given he would become president with the death of Grey, but because of his declining health chose not to seek a term on his own.
    [6]Not an inventor in this timeline, at least not like what you recognize, a darkhorse candidate
    [7]A new order was arising-that of socialism. To some, a reborn Farmer Labor. To others, dangerous subversives. It was not easy, but eventually they managed to put their man in the White House. It was a curious ticket, an example of the differing beliefs and ideologies between Robert and Tad. Things were a changing.
    [8]Electoral college ends after this. Elias Charles Disney is OTL Walt Disney's father
    [9]To some, a mere dreamer. To other, promise of hope beyond. The first Socialist president, like the Whigs of old De Leon chose to run only one term, citing that "we must not let ourselves get addicted to power. We must remain humble, and this is how we shall". The second Socialist president showed up after him. Then T.R, this time a Democrat
    [10]Doesn't exist IOTL, but you recognize his name. He is TTL son of Mark Twain. His running mate is entirely fictional, again because people would be eligible who were born quite some time after the POD. Josiah Wilson is the alternately named version of Woodrow Wilson's brother. Grace Coolidge is someone who doesn't exist IOTL, but his father is OTL Calvin Coolidge's father. Max Dunne is referencing Vincent R Dunne
    [11]Heidler has no relation to a certain customs worker, but I figured I could get away with a reference. It's not like the Little Magician's family had to change his obviously Dutch Van Buren surname
    [12]Last ITTL president to exist IOTL, butterflies let him live until 1932, declines a second term due to age.

    Abridged list(Red=Republican, Blue=Democrat, Deep red=Socialist)
    • 15: James Buchanan/John C Breckinridge(1857-1861)
    • 16: Abraham Lincoln(1861-1869)/Hannibal Hamlin(1861-1865), Andrew Johnson(1865-1869)
    • 17: Ulysses S Grant/Reuben E Fenton(1869-1877)
    • 18: Samuel J Tilden/Thomas A Hendricks(1877-1881)
    • 19: Elihu B Washburne*(1881-1887)/Horace Maynard*(1881-1882), Robert T Lincoln(1885-1887)
    • 20/23: Robert Lincoln(1887-1889, 1897-1901)/Thomas B Reed(1897-1901)
    • 21: Isaac P Grey*/Theodore Roosevelt Sr(1889-1895)
    • 22: Theodore Roosevelt I(1895-1897)
    • 24: Alton B Parker/Tad Lincoln(1901-1905)
    • 25: Daniel De Leon/Elias Disney(1905-1909)
    • 26: Henry C Wallace/Frank W Arnold(1909-1913)
    • 27: Theodore Roosevelt II/Oscar Underwood(1913-1921)
    • 28: Elias Disney/Max Dunne(1921-1925)
    • 29: Robert M.La Follette/Samuel King(1925-1929)
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 9:20 PM
  19. EricSandwich Active Member

    Dec 31, 2016
    Does the UK have any boorish or ridiculous celebrities that have expressed hard right views? It's certainly easier in a presidential system for a rando not in government to just sort of hop into an election, but it's not impossible in parliamentary systems; say a big name lends his charisma to a party, runs in a safe district, and they promise that they'll make him PM if he wins. As I recall Kevin O'Leary wanted to do that in Canada. I don't know, perhaps Piers Morgan fits the bill?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 10:19 PM
  20. Wolfram Fair to middlin'

    Dec 5, 2010
    University of Houston, Houston, Texas
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