List of Alternate Presidents and PMs II

[Gorrister]

that took me a solid few seconds tho like 3

that's big enough to complain

Can I just say I appreciate this very thought provoking discussion of my list

 

[shiftygiant]

Swipe past it.

Mate, unless you have a reason for quoting an entire post, just don't quote entire posts. It's simple as. It's an inconvenience, and even if they can just 'swipe past' doesn't mean you shouldn't consider other users.

Prime Ministers of the Northern Irish State

Good stuff; I don't think I've ever seen a UDI explored before.

 

[Exitstencil]

A TROUBLING CHAIN OF EVENTS​

1953-1955: Joseph Laniel (CNIP)
def. 1953: Marcel-Edmond Naegelen (SFIO), René Coty (CNIP)

1955-1958: Jospeh Laniel (Union de Justice et de Liberté)

1958-1958: Jacques Duclos (PCF-SFIO Alliance)
def. 1958: Roger Duchet (CNIP), Pierre Poujade (UDCA), Joseph Laniel (UJL)

End of French 4th Republic
​

1958-1967: Raoul Salan (Military)
1961: Presidential Approval Referendum: YES

1965: Presidential Approval Referendum: YES

1967: Presidential Approval Referendum: YES

Establishment of French 5th Republic
​

1967-1967: Michel Debré (Fête Républicain de Restauration)

1967-???: Jean Luc-Godard (Je T'Emmerde)
def. 1967: Michel Debré (CNIP), Jean-Pierre Chevènement (Parti Socialiste), Marc Augier (Ressortissants)

Footnotes to come soon.​

 

[Stuyvesant]

Now that's my kind of party name.

 

[Israel]

5. Yigal Allon (Alignment): 26 February 1969-17 March 1976

6. Chaim Herzog (Alignment): 17 March 1976-30 June 1981

7. Ezer Weizmann (Likud): 30 June 1981-24 June 1989

 

[Aaaaasima]

5. Yigal Allon (Alignment): 26 February 1969-17 March 1976

6. Chaim Herzog (Alignment): 17 March 1976-30 June 1981

7. Ezer Weizmann (Likud): 30 June 1981-24 June 1989

While I don't know Israeli politics enough to comment on it's plausibility, I would like to remind you that in this thread a lot of people like lists with details, so I would suggest that your next list would have details on what is happening.

 

[Oppo]

'Murica Ain't Alaska

1961-1969: Stuart Symington (Democratic)
1960: Charles Percy (Republican)
1964: Richard Nixon (Republican)
1969-1971: Mark Hatfield (Republican)
1968: Stuart Symington (Democratic)
1971-1973: Melvin Laird (Republican)
1973-1977: Stuart Symington (Democratic)
1972: Melvin Laird (Republican)
1977-1985: George Bush (Republican)
1976: Stuart Symington (Democratic), John Rarick (Freedom)
1980: Mark Hatfield (Independent), Fred Harris (Democratic), Donald Reagan (Independent)
1985-1989: Joe Biden (Democratic)
1984: John Rhodes (Republican), Sam Steiger (Libertarian)
1989-1993: Rudy Perpich (Democratic)
1988: Nancy Kassebaum (Republican), John Rarick (Freedom)
1993-1996: Mark Hatfield (Freedom)
1992: Evan Bayh (Democratic), Nancy Kassebaum (Republican)
1996-1997: Mark Hatfield (Republican)
1997-2005: Evan Bayh (Democratic)
1996: Jack Welch (Republican), William Roth (Freedom)
2000: John Ashcroft (Independent Republican), Rudy Guliani (Republican), Lee Dreyfus (Republican Moderate)
2005-2009: Kay Bailey Hutchinson (Republican)
2004: Debbie Stabenow (Democratic)
2009-2011: Mark Sanford (Republican)
2008: Evan Bayh (Democratic), William Weld (Independent)
2011-2017: Rick Perry (Republican)
2012: Chuck Schumer (Democratic)
2017-Present: Michael Bloomberg (Independent)
2016: Rick Perry (Republican)

 

[Stuyvesant]

America Ain't Albany

1921-1926: A. Mitchell Palmer/Carter Glass(Democratic)
1926-1941: Carter Glass/Franklin Roosevelt(Democratic)
1941-1949: Happy Chandler/Henry A. Wallace (Democratic)
1949-1957: Happy Chandler/Erastus Corning 2nd (Democratic)
1957-1965: Happy Chandler/Henry M. Jackson (Democratic)
1965-1973: Happy Chandler/Ralph Yarborough (Democratic)
1973-1977: Happy Chandler/Reubin Askew (Democratic)
def. 1972: Eugene McCarthy/Various (Independent)
1977-1983: Happy Chandler/Jerry Brown (Democratic)
1983-1993: Jerry Brown/Mario Cuomo (Democratic)
1993-2013: Newt Gingrich/James Blanchard (Democratic)
2013-: Elizabeth Warren/Steve Bullock (Democratic)

A short little list, following the formula of the Mayors of Albany, NY home of Erastus Corning 2nd, the longest serving mayor of a major city in US History, which was a term from 1942 to 1983. While Chandler's Machine has been all but disassembled in practice after party favorite Cuomo lost the primary in 1992, the sheer inertia of nearly 100 years of Democratic Control has left its dominance all but uncontested. Due to the de facto illegalization of opposition parties, most challenges to incumbents happen in the primary season, with the exception of Eugene McCarthy's Independent run in 1972.

 

[Japhy]

America Ain't Albany.

Lamest Albany thing on the site since I last tried to set up an Albany meet up. Also I feel like the VP slot would have better used showing Uncle Dan's dominance. Also the post Chandler Picks should be ever more dominated by Education types.

 

[Stuyvesant]

Lamest Albany thing on the site since I last tried to set up an Albany meet up. Also I feel like the VP slot would have better used showing Uncle Dan's dominance. Also the post Chandler Picks should be ever more dominated by Education types.

Well Warren and Newt were both teachers...

 

[Yes]

5. Yigal Allon (Alignment): 26 February 1969-17 March 1976

6. Chaim Herzog (Alignment): 17 March 1976-30 June 1981

7. Ezer Weizmann (Likud): 30 June 1981-24 June 1989

I'm guessing something happened to Begin? I only say that because despite the fact Weizmann was one of the Knesset's players for a long time and I can see him drifting ever more into Likud as IOTL, also his budging aside Shamir and Sharon as "the acceptable face of Likud" (esp. the one who can keep Egypt from slowly degenerating into a second [third?] front while he deals with issues to the north) makes sense. But it's hard to see anyone displacing Begin with Likud especially since he was in effect Jabotinsky's anointed heir. That's a story worth telling in footnotes *nudge*.

I always think, and will think (and might be doing something about that thinking elsewhere in the sub-folders of a Scrivener project ) that Allon missed his chance in '74. When the smear campaign against Rabin started, and as he (Allon) was not so tainted by the "October surprise" of the previous year, if he'd had the killer instinct he could have stepped forward to say, "Rabin and Peres will never serve under one another or, if they even try, it will tear the Alignment apart and what do you want, Jabotinsky's goons from Likud running Israel? No -- Yitzakh, he's my baby brother in every way that matters, he will listen to me and I will stand up for him, so we keep Rabin's partisans on board. Peres -- I can make him a deal. Give him a job he can't refuse, make him feel just enough like he has a chance to succeed me one day that he will stick around waiting for me to fall. Then we can hold it all together. Give me the premiership and I will make these things happen." And he probably could've pulled it off if he'd tried. He also benefits, discreetly, from a backlash in his (Allon's) favor having been one of the people whose careers Ben-Gurion worked hard to sideline. (It's hard to see why though other than personal animosity, Allon took a pretty hard line on the security of the Occupied Territories.) '69 looks a little early to me just because there's so much sheer baggage surrounding the backstabbing of Eshkol by Ben-Gurion and his cronies and the collapse of Eshkol's health, Meir had the keenness to navigate those waters. But I can see Allon and Herzog following her -- maybe Abba Eban gets to be President as a filip for services rendered?

Two last things: I assume that Weizmann the old pilot will stick to his guns and the Lavi will happen, exports or no exports, ITTL? If they do it the Phantom/F-16 way and build the fighter configuration first then add on the bomb-trucking it could go well, you could have a few F-15Is and otherwise an all-Lavi fleet until General Dynamics relents a little bit and some exports can happen (India, post-apartheid South Africa rather in the way West Germany helped Israel get a sub fleet and the bomb [ie reparations for chumming it up with Voerster and Botha], maybe Ecuador if they can afford a few, they were big Kfir users.) Also you know I'm rooting for Weizmann to pass off to what he thinks is a safe pair of hands like Moshe Arens' only to have them fumble the ball and Teddy Kollek step in as the grand old man (I know, Peres gets no love, but he was kind of a slippery, manipulative so-and-so even if he had his moments.)

ETA: Also I've given some thought to Motta Gur stepping in to the "Rabin role" in the Nineties, even to the point of coming up with a plan to hand Gaza over to Egypt as a grand bargain. And given that I tend to think cancer is one of those things, where there's a genetic disposition, you can only butterfly so long, it would be interesting to see an old soldier who's really in a hurry instead of one (Rabin) who didn't know he had to be....

 

[TPL99]

"Dr. Who's now a man? You gotta be kidding me!"

1. Celia Johnson (1963-1966)
"The old grandmother and his grandson Sean Foreman are ready to embark on this adventure on space and time. Saturdays at 5:15 PM"
(BBC advertisement, November 1963)

2. Dinah Sheridan (1966-1969)
"'Regeneration' concept was hard to think in first moment, but after we'd make success, again. I believe that's great. [laughs]."
(Verity Lambert, 1999)

3. Sheila Sim (1970-1974)
"That invite was really unexpected. I never thought about to be Doctor Who, but I liked my character along the time. I'm only very sorry by destiny of my friend, Pamela Brown."
(Sim on interview in 1993)

4. Maggie Smith (1974-1981)
"'That crazy TV woman!', was the first image by a old man who ran from me just in time. Was one of the most funny moments of my life, sure."
(Smith on interview in 1998)

5. Lalla Ward (1981-1984)
"One of the things that made me sad was the constant pressure to 'be better than Smith'. But I wanted my Doctor in my own way. And I believe it was good, I've been there at Big Finish until today, so... [laughs]"
(Ward during a convention in USA, 2006)

6. Joanna Lumley (1984-1986)
"Hard times came with 1985 and 1986 budgets. Also, we'd a constant crisis on writing of episodes, and that culminated on Jane Baker rupture with BBC in late-1986 and Lumley also was fired before record her regeneration in 7th Doctor. That was a hell of time."
(Rona Munro on interview for Doctor Who Magazine, 1997)

7. Frances de la Tour (1987-1989, 1996)
"BBC, you need to pay me for Season 27 yet. I'll never forget about."
(de la Tour on Have I Got News For You, 2014)

8. Nicola Bryant (1996, 2013)
"17 years later it's a good time to get back on trail. Hey, Chris Eccleston, I missed you and your Dr. Greg Holloway too! [laughs]"
(The Five-ish Doctors, 2013)

War. Helen Mirren (2013)
"It's not easy to fight against Daleks, but against Zarbi would be more interesting, I think."
(Mirren's interview to Doctor Who Magazine, 2017)

9. Miranda Hart (2005)
"I think I won this life. Kiss Eddie Redmayne as my 'fellow Ross Tyler' was incredible. [laughs]"
(Hart's interview to Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, 2016)

10. Catherine Tate (2005-2010)
"Two words to define your Doctor: happy and ginger."
(Tate on Mark Gatiss Live Show on BBC, 2020)

11. Jodie Whittaker (2010-2013)
"I'm Auckland, but I never was on New Zealand. Especially under Winston Peters, for God's sake."
(Whittaker's interview to Conan, 2019)

12. Michelle Gomez (2014-2017)
"He's so Scottish and so...fantastic. Capaldi's Master it's very, very better than I thought on first time. Really."
(Gomez's QA on Doctor Who confidential, 2016)

13. Matt Smith (2018-____)
"We're really scare this new Dr. Who change: no eyebrows this time."
(BuzzFeed UK post after revelation of Thirteenth Doctor, 2017)

 

[Fleetlord]

Well, since this is a thing again, might as well bring out...

"American-Style Politics at it's Worst"
1909-1913: Boies Penrose (Republican)
1908 def: Alton Parker (Democratic), Benjamin Hanford (Socialist), Eugene Chafin (Prohibition)

1913-1917: William Jennings Bryan (Democratic)
1912 def: Nicholas Murray Butler (Republican), Eugene Debs (Socialist)

1917-1925: Warren G. Harding (Republican)
1916 def: James E. Ferguson (Democratic), Allan Benson (Socialist)
1920 def: James E. Ferguson (Democratic), George Perrin Davis (Independent), Samuel Gompers (Labor), Emil Seidel (Socialist)

1925-1929: Al Smith (Democratic)
1924 def: Herbert Hoover (Republican), Seymour Stedman (Socialist)

1927-1933: Warren G. Harding (Republican)
1928 def: Al Smith (Democratic), Dr. John R. Brinkley (Smash Organized Crime!)

1933: Franklin D. Roosevelt (Democratic)
1932 def: Warren G. Harding (Republican)

1933-1949: John N. Garner (Democratic)
1936 def: Owen Roberts (Republican), William Lemke (Independent)
1940 def: Arthur H. James (Republican)
1944 def: Arthur H. Vandenburg (Republican)

1949-1957: Henry Wallace (Democratic)
1948 def: Robert Taft (Republican)
1952 def: William E. Jenner (Republican)

1957-1977: Pat Brown (Democratic)
1956 def: Sherman Adams (Republican)
1960 def: Water Judd (Republican)
1964 def: Thomas Dewey (Republican)
1968 def: Harold Stassen (Republican), Richard “Dick” Gregory (Peace & Freedom)
1972 def: Milton Friedman (Republican)
1976 def: John Duncan (Republican), Peter Camejo (Socialist Workers)

1977-1981: Tip O’Neill (Democratic)
1978 contingent def: Robert Stafford (Republican)

1981-1985: Dixy Lee Ray (Democratic)
1980 def: Claude Brinegar (Republican), Clifton DeBerry (Socialist Workers)

1985-1989: Shirley Chisholm (Democratic)
1984 def: David Koch (Republican)
1988 def: Robert C. Byrd (American Union), James C. Miller III (Republican)

1989-1990: John Dingell (Democratic)

1991-2001: Jerry Brown (Democratic)
1990 contingent def: Major Owens (Unbought and Unbossed!), Robert C. Byrd (Republican)
1992 def: Ruth Bader Ginsburg (Unbought and Unbossed!), Pat Buchanan (Republican)
1996 def: Jesse Jackson (Independent), Jack Fellure (Republican)

2001-2013: Jerry Brown (Non-Partisan [de-facto Democratic])
2000 def: John Lewis
2004 def: Peter Camejo, Leonard Peltier, John McAfee
2008 def: Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, Rocky de la Fuente

2013-present: Charles E. “Chuck” Schumer (Non-Partisan [de-facto Democratic])
2012 def: Chris Van Hollen, Russ Feingold, Cynthia McKinney
2016 def: Hilda Solis, Oprah Winfrey, Alan Grayson, Rocky de la Fuente

Warren G. Harding was such a beautiful disaster as President that he had already crippled the ability of the Republican Party to win elections ever again, even before the Great Depression kicked them while they were down and Pat Brown, between his ruthless political machine and clever use of cross-filing, rendered them an impotent joke (Koch did come awfully close in '84, though he and the rest of the party were awfully uncomfortable as to why that was).

Jerry Brown's elimination of partisan elections in the late 90's was intended as a way to "re-democratize" the political process, though in practice it was simply a way to ensure the Democratic machine could keep its opposition divided and confused. At least, that was the theory -- after the "Progressive Movement" managed to force the first-ever runoff election last year, international observers are wondering if the political order that lasted nearly a century is ready to fall...

 

[Gabe5525]

If Warren G. Harding was such an absolute disaster, then how did he win a non-consecutive third term? The corruption and scandals that would have plagued Harding during two terms would have stopped him from getting a third. If Republicans could survive Nixon, then they could survive Harding. I really don't think a Harding disaster no matter how bad would have led to his party's oblivion, but let's say it happened. First, I seriously doubt that the crippling of the Republican party would lead to complete Democratic domination from the 30s to the present day. A third party would have challenged and won against the Democrats as soon as the 50s. Second, It is really unlikely that the Democratic coalition would have held on that long especially with the leadership of the uninspiring John Nance Garner and the divisions between Northern and Soutern Democrats leading to gridlock. Also, Garner was not as powerful as FDR was so I seriously doubt him winning 4 terms.

Well, since this is a thing again, might as well bring out...

"American-Style Politics at it's Worst"
1909-1913: Boies Penrose (Republican)
1908 def: Alton Parker (Democratic), Benjamin Hanford (Socialist), Eugene Chafin (Prohibition)

1913-1917: William Jennings Bryan (Democratic)
1912 def: Nicholas Murray Butler (Republican), Eugene Debs (Socialist)

1917-1925: Warren G. Harding (Republican)
1916 def: James E. Ferguson (Democratic), Allan Benson (Socialist)
1920 def: James E. Ferguson (Democratic), George Perrin Davis (Independent), Samuel Gompers (Labor), Emil Seidel (Socialist)

1925-1929: Al Smith (Democratic)
1924 def: Herbert Hoover (Republican), Seymour Stedman (Socialist)

1927-1933: Warren G. Harding (Republican)
1928 def: Al Smith (Democratic), Dr. John R. Brinkley (Smash Organized Crime!)

1933: Franklin D. Roosevelt (Democratic)
1932 def: Warren G. Harding (Republican)

1933-1949: John N. Garner (Democratic)
1936 def: Owen Roberts (Republican), William Lemke (Independent)
1940 def: Arthur H. James (Republican)
1944 def: Arthur H. Vandenburg (Republican)

1949-1957: Henry Wallace (Democratic)
1948 def: Robert Taft (Republican)
1952 def: William E. Jenner (Republican)

1957-1977: Pat Brown (Democratic)
1956 def: Sherman Adams (Republican)
1960 def: Water Judd (Republican)
1964 def: Thomas Dewey (Republican)
1968 def: Harold Stassen (Republican), Richard “Dick” Gregory (Peace & Freedom)
1972 def: Milton Friedman (Republican)
1976 def: John Duncan (Republican), Peter Camejo (Socialist Workers)

1977-1981: Tip O’Neill (Democratic)
1978 contingent def: Robert Stafford (Republican)

1981-1985: Dixy Lee Ray (Democratic)
1980 def: Claude Brinegar (Republican), Clifton DeBerry (Socialist Workers)

1985-1989: Shirley Chisholm (Democratic)
1984 def: David Koch (Republican)
1988 def: Robert C. Byrd (American Union), James C. Miller III (Republican)

1989-1990: John Dingell (Democratic)

1991-2001: Jerry Brown (Democratic)
1990 contingent def: Major Owens (Unbought and Unbossed!), Robert C. Byrd (Republican)
1992 def: Ruth Bader Ginsburg (Unbought and Unbossed!), Pat Buchanan (Republican)
1996 def: Jesse Jackson (Independent), Jack Fellure (Republican)

2001-2013: Jerry Brown (Non-Partisan [de-facto Democratic])
2000 def: John Lewis
2004 def: Peter Camejo, Leonard Peltier, John McAfee
2008 def: Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, Rocky de la Fuente

2013-present: Charles E. “Chuck” Schumer (Non-Partisan [de-facto Democratic])
2012 def: Chris Van Hollen, Russ Feingold, Cynthia McKinney
2016 def: Hilda Solis, Oprah Winfrey, Alan Grayson, Rocky de la Fuente

Warren G. Harding was such a beautiful disaster as President that he had already crippled the ability of the Republican Party to win elections ever again, even before the Great Depression kicked them while they were down and Pat Brown, between his ruthless political machine and clever use of cross-filing, rendered them an impotent joke (Koch did come awfully close in '84, though he and the rest of the party were awfully uncomfortable as to why that was).

Jerry Brown's elimination of partisan elections in the late 90's was intended as a way to "re-democratize" the political process, though in practice it was simply a way to ensure the Democratic machine could keep its opposition divided and confused. At least, that was the theory -- after the "Progressive Movement" managed to force the first-ever runoff election last year, international observers are wondering if the political order that lasted nearly a century is ready to fall...

 

[Fleetlord]

If Warren G. Harding was such an absolute disaster, then how did he win a non-consecutive third term? First, I seriously doubt that the crippling of the Republican party would lead to complete Democratic domination from the 1930s to the present day. A third party would have challenged and won against the Democrats as soon as the 1950s. Second, It is really unlikely that the Democratic coalition would have held on that long especially with the leadership of the uninspiring John Nance Garner and the divisions between Northern and Soutern Democrats leading to gridlock. Also, Garner was not charmastic or powerful as FDR so I seriously doubt him winning four terms.

The answers to your questions are:
Massive Graft
Even Massiver Graft
So Much Graft That Huey P. Long Was Like "Damn Son, That's A Lot Of Graft".
Also it's an A N A L O G U E

 

[Gordian]

If Warren G. Harding was such an absolute disaster, then how did he win a non-consecutive third term? First, I seriously doubt that the crippling of the Republican party would lead to complete Democratic domination from the 30s to the present day. A third party would have challenged and won against the Democrats as soon as the 50s. Second, It is really unlikely that the Democratic coalition would have held on that long especially with the leadership of the uninspiring John Nance Garner and the divisions between Northern and Soutern Democrats leading to gridlock. Also, Garner was not as powerful as FDR was so I seriously doubt him winning four terms.

It's America as Chicago.

 

[Yes]

"Dr. Who's now a man? You gotta be kidding me!"

1. Celia Johnson (1963-1966)
"The old grandmother and his grandson Sean Foreman are ready to embark on this adventure on space and time. Saturdays at 5:15 PM"
(BBC advertisement, November 1963)

2. Dinah Sheridan (1966-1969)
"'Regeneration' concept was hard to think in first moment, but after we'd make success, again. I believe that's great. [laughs]."
(Verity Lambert, 1999)

3. Sheila Sim (1970-1974)
"That invite was really unexpected. I never thought about to be Doctor Who, but I liked my character along the time. I'm only very sorry by destiny of my friend, Pamela Brown."
(Sim on interview in 1993)

4. Maggie Smith (1974-1981)
"'That crazy TV woman!', was the first image by a old man who ran from me just in time. Was one of the most funny moments of my life, sure."
(Smith on interview in 1998)

5. Lalla Ward (1981-1984)
"One of the things that made me sad was the constant pressure to 'be better than Smith'. But I wanted my Doctor in my own way. And I believe it was good, I've been there at Big Finish until today, so... [laughs]"
(Ward during a convention in USA, 2006)

6. Joanna Lumley (1984-1986)
"Hard times came with 1985 and 1986 budgets. Also, we'd a constant crisis on writing of episodes, and that culminated on Jane Baker rupture with BBC in late-1986 and Lumley also was fired before record her regeneration in 7th Doctor. That was a hell of time."
(Rona Munro on interview for Doctor Who Magazine, 1997)

7. Frances de la Tour (1987-1989, 1996)
"BBC, you need to pay me for Season 27 yet. I'll never forget about."
(de la Tour on Have I Got News For You, 2014)

8. Nicola Bryant (1996, 2013)
"17 years later it's a good time to get back on trail. Hey, Chris Eccleston, I missed you and your Dr. Greg Holloway too! [laughs]"
(The Five-ish Doctors, 2013)

War. Helen Mirren (2013)
"It's not easy to fight against Daleks, but against Zarbi would be more interesting, I think."
(Mirren's interview to Doctor Who Magazine, 2017)

9. Miranda Hart (2005)
"I think I won this life. Kiss Eddie Redmayne as my 'fellow Ross Tyler' was incredible. [laughs]"
(Hart's interview to Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, 2016)

10. Catherine Tate (2005-2010)
"Two words to define your Doctor: happy and ginger."
(Tate on Mark Gatiss Live Show on BBC, 2020)

11. Jodie Whittaker (2010-2013)
"I'm Auckland, but I never was on New Zealand. Especially under Winston Peters, for God's sake."
(Whittaker's interview to Conan, 2019)

12. Michelle Gomez (2014-2017)
"He's so Scottish and so...fantastic. Capaldi's Master it's very, very better than I thought on first time. Really."
(Gomez's QA on Doctor Who confidential, 2016)

13. Matt Smith (2018-____)
"We're really scare this new Dr. Who change: no eyebrows this time."
(BuzzFeed UK post after revelation of Thirteenth Doctor, 2017)

Gaze upon the garden of my Likes and see, forsooth, that it is barren for I have harvested them all and chucked them bodily at this post...

 

[Yes]

The answers to your questions are:
Massive Graft
Even Massiver Graft
So Much Graft That Huey P. Long Was Like "Damn Son, That's A Lot Of Graft".
Also it's an A N A L O G U E

I may have to sig "So Much Graft That Huey P. Long Was Like, 'Damn, Son, That's A Lot of Graft'"

 

[Israel]

I'm guessing something happened to Begin? I only say that because despite the fact Weizmann was one of the Knesset's players for a long time and I can see him drifting ever more into Likud as IOTL, also his budging aside Shamir and Sharon as "the acceptable face of Likud" (esp. the one who can keep Egypt from slowly degenerating into a second [third?] front while he deals with issues to the north) makes sense. But it's hard to see anyone displacing Begin with Likud especially since he was in effect Jabotinsky's anointed heir. That's a story worth telling in footnotes *nudge*.

Begin stepped down from the Likud leadership in `80 due to concerns over his health.

I always think, and will think (and might be doing something about that thinking elsewhere in the sub-folders of a Scrivener project ) that Allon missed his chance in '74. When the smear campaign against Rabin started, and as he (Allon) was not so tainted by the "October surprise" of the previous year, if he'd had the killer instinct he could have stepped forward to say, "Rabin and Peres will never serve under one another or, if they even try, it will tear the Alignment apart and what do you want, Jabotinsky's goons from Likud running Israel? No -- Yitzakh, he's my baby brother in every way that matters, he will listen to me and I will stand up for him, so we keep Rabin's partisans on board. Peres -- I can make him a deal. Give him a job he can't refuse, make him feel just enough like he has a chance to succeed me one day that he will stick around waiting for me to fall. Then we can hold it all together. Give me the premiership and I will make these things happen." And he probably could've pulled it off if he'd tried. He also benefits, discreetly, from a backlash in his (Allon's) favor having been one of the people whose careers Ben-Gurion worked hard to sideline. (It's hard to see why though other than personal animosity, Allon took a pretty hard line on the security of the Occupied Territories.) '69 looks a little early to me just because there's so much sheer baggage surrounding the backstabbing of Eshkol by Ben-Gurion and his cronies and the collapse of Eshkol's health, Meir had the keenness to navigate those waters. But I can see Allon and Herzog following her -- maybe Abba Eban gets to be President as a filip for services rendered?

Meir's cancer gets worse, and she remains in retirement. The Party electing Allon as Leader.

Also you know I'm rooting for Weizmann to pass off to what he thinks is a safe pair of hands like Moshe Arens' only to have them fumble the ball and Teddy Kollek step in as the grand old man (I know, Peres gets no love, but he was kind of a slippery, manipulative so-and-so even if he had his moments.)
ETA: Also I've given some thought to Motta Gur stepping in to the "Rabin role" in the Nineties, even to the point of coming up with a plan to hand Gaza over to Egypt as a grand bargain. And given that I tend to think cancer is one of those things, where there's a genetic disposition, you can only butterfly so long, it would be interesting to see an old soldier who's really in a hurry instead of one (Rabin) who didn't know he had to be....

Good ideas! I'll expand the list, so I'll try to put them in

 

[Yes]

Begin stepped down from the Likud leadership in `80 due to concerns over his health.



Meir's cancer gets worse, and she remains in retirement. The Party electing Allon as Leader.



Good ideas! I'll expand the list, so I'll try to put them in

Cool -- thanks for the reply! It's a very interesting list and always nice to see the expansion of listing into other countries and polities. Those are some interesting choices too, I'd never fully considered Weizmann stepping into the thick of it with Likud, he would have the public credibility and lack of baggage to get through the Scylla and Charibdys of Shamir and Sharon. But that's what AH is for, making you reconsider the options...