English duchies, unlike earldoms, can only be inherited by sons (or their sons etc). They specifically have to be recreated by the monarch.
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage
- Thread starter Jonathan
- Start date
Only because he obtained a special Act of Parliament to allow it.
I am glad you appreciated that. I use that trick for creating an Habsburg independent Milan quite often if you look at my trees
I also preffer Milan as secundogeniture with its own ducal line. Here I included also other scenarious I like:
-continuing Hungarian Jagiellons
-Habsburg England instead of Habsburg Spain
You can have Habsburg everything... I once tried that and with only a questionable match I got five independent Habsburg lines ruling more than half Europe...
For an Habsburg England I have at least four different way to get it...
What about this: Philip Habsburg (son of Max) remarries to Mary Tudor the Elder and has son with her, meanwhile Henry VIII dies young and James V of Scotland, like all his full siblings, dies as infant.
krieger
Banned
Joanna of Castile would need to die in childbirth then. But it's quite plausible, although last de la Poles are in France and it could result in "War of the Roses 2.0:Electric Boogaloo".
Not one of mine (Mary Tudor the Elder is not involved in my list)... Still as both Mary Tudor were engaged to him I would go with Charles V as her husband...
was
If Philip is not going to get Castilian throne (Miguel da Paz or posthumous daughter of Juan de Asturias survive) and he stays in Low Countries and avoids death (IF Ferdinand really was responsible for his death it is quite likely) then Juana la Loca may die giving birth to their 7th or 8th kid and Philip would be free to remarry. Even better if Elizabeth Tudor (Born in 1492, so certainly too old for Charles) survives.
krieger
Banned
Well, even if Ferdinand WASN'T responsible for his death, Philip would most likely not catch the ilness in Low Countries. I think that making this daughter of Juan de Asturias posthumous living son would be the best option to keep Habsburgs out of Spain.
Children of longer living Mary of Burgundy and HRE Maximilian I
Mary of Burgundy (1457-1507) m. Maximilian Habsburg (1459-1519) Holy Roman Emperor
1) Philip (1478-1497) m. Joanna of Castile (1479-1555)
2) Margaret (1480-1534) m. John III (1478-1524) King of Spain
3) Francis (1481)
4) Eleanor (1483-1515) m. Wolfgang* (1482-1530) Duke of Bavaria-Landshut
5) Isabella (1484-1552) m. Philibert II (1480-1528) Duke of Savoy
6) Charles V (1487-1558) Duke of Burgundy 1507, Holy Roman Emperor 1519, m. Elizabeth of England** (1492-1551)
7) Agnes (1490-1544) m. Vladislaus III*** (1486-1542) King of Bohemia and Hungary
8) John (1492-1547) Duke of Milan, m. Bona Sforza (1494-)
* Son of George the Rich, IOTL died as infant after being dropped by nanny
** Daughter of Henry VII Tudor
*** Son of Vladislaus II and Barbara of Brandenburg
Mary of Burgundy (1457-1507) m. Maximilian Habsburg (1459-1519) Holy Roman Emperor
1) Philip (1478-1497) m. Joanna of Castile (1479-1555)
2) Margaret (1480-1534) m. John III (1478-1524) King of Spain
3) Francis (1481)
4) Eleanor (1483-1515) m. Wolfgang* (1482-1530) Duke of Bavaria-Landshut
5) Isabella (1484-1552) m. Philibert II (1480-1528) Duke of Savoy
6) Charles V (1487-1558) Duke of Burgundy 1507, Holy Roman Emperor 1519, m. Elizabeth of England** (1492-1551)
7) Agnes (1490-1544) m. Vladislaus III*** (1486-1542) King of Bohemia and Hungary
8) John (1492-1547) Duke of Milan, m. Bona Sforza (1494-)
* Son of George the Rich, IOTL died as infant after being dropped by nanny
** Daughter of Henry VII Tudor
*** Son of Vladislaus II and Barbara of Brandenburg
Elizabeth I of Hungary b. 1292 d. 1336[1] m. Charles III of Naples d. 1342
Charles (1309)
Ladislaus (Belgrade, 1 November 1310 – 24 February 1319)
Louis I of Hungary (1316–1382) m. Jadwiga of Poland b. 1310[2]
Andrew I of Naples (1317–1345) m. Judith of Bohemia[3]
Stephen, Count of Provence(1322–1354) m. Blanche of France
Catherine of Anjou (1324-1355) m. John I of France
Elizabeth of Anjou(1326-1367) m. Charles IV of Holy Roman Empire
1.Daughter of Andrew III of Hungary, he reigns up to 1308 and his daughter reigns as Queen of Hungary
2. Sister of Casimir III
3. OTL Queen of France
Charles (1309)
Ladislaus (Belgrade, 1 November 1310 – 24 February 1319)
Louis I of Hungary (1316–1382) m. Jadwiga of Poland b. 1310[2]
Andrew I of Naples (1317–1345) m. Judith of Bohemia[3]
Stephen, Count of Provence(1322–1354) m. Blanche of France
Catherine of Anjou (1324-1355) m. John I of France
Elizabeth of Anjou(1326-1367) m. Charles IV of Holy Roman Empire
1.Daughter of Andrew III of Hungary, he reigns up to 1308 and his daughter reigns as Queen of Hungary
2. Sister of Casimir III
3. OTL Queen of France
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Except that the Dukedom was created for this Albert's grandfather George, passing first to George's eldest son Edward, then (as Edward had no issue) to Edward's nephew via his next eldest brother. For example, Prince Michael of Kent is still in the line of succession for the Duchy of Kent; he just comes after his brother's sons and male-line grandsons.
Don't you still have it going through the Crown though? That absorbs the duchy.
No, because the Duchy is for the heirs male of George, Duke of York (OTL's George V) but ITTL this is a junior branch to the line of George's older brother, the King. The line of succession for the Duchy is as follows for the Duchy when George dies (I'm being lazy and using George's OTL descendants):
George, Duke of York, Earl of Inverness, Baron Killarney
- HRH Prince Edward of York (1894)
- HRH Prince Albert of York (1895)
- HH Prince Albert (1926)
- HRH Prince Henry of York (1900)
- HRH Prince George of York (1902)
- HH Prince Edward (1935)
Edward VIII (born Prince Albert Victor)
- HRH The Prince Albert Philip, Prince of Wales (1899) - Son of the King
- HRH Princess Helena of Wales (1930) - Grandaughter of the King
- HRH Princess Alexandra of Wales (1934) - Grandaughter of the King
- HRH The Prince Christian, Duke of Sussex (1906) - Son of the King
- HRH The Princess Victoria, Princess Royal and Marchioness of Hartington (1896) - Daughter of the King
- The Lord Cavendish (1922) - Grandson of the King
- The Honorable William Cavendish (1925) - Grandson of the King
- The Honorable Victor Cavendish (1927)- Grandson of the King
- Lady Victoria Cavendish (1918)- Granddaughter of the King
- Lady Elizabeth Cavendish (1920)- Granddaughter of the King
- HRH The Crown Princess of Denmark (1903) - Daughter of the King
- HRH Prince Christian of Denmark (1932)- Grandson of the King
- HRH Princess Alexandra of Denmark (1924)- Granddaughter of the King
- HRH Princess Louise of Denmark (1928)- Granddaughter of the King
- HRH Princess Anne of Denmark (1930)- Granddaughter of the King
- HRH The Duchess of Vasterbotten (1906)- Daughter of the King
- HRH The Duke of Jamtland (1934)- Grandson of the King
- HRH Princess Margaretha of Sweden (1932)- Granddaughter of the King
- HRH The Prince George, Duke of York (1865) - Brother of the King
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And now for the Swedish Branch of the EddyxHelene TL:
Gustav VI Adolf (b.1882 r.1950 d.1973) m. a) Margaret of Connaught, b) Lady Louise Mountbatten
Carl XVI Gustav (b.1934 r.1973 d.2009) m. Miss Pauline Williams
*Lost title due to unequal marriage, now known as Count of Wisborg
**Lost title due to unequal marriage
***While the future Carl XVI Gustaf became engaged to the 25-year-old Pauline Williams, daughter of the Australian ambassador, in 1971 the couple didn't marry until 1975 due to not wanting Carl to lose his place in the line of succession and the later commotion from his ascension.
****While giving duchies to non-mainline grandchildren was due to be phased out with Carl XVI's grandchildren (with one minister joking that given the King had five children there wouldn't be enough duchies in all of Sweden for all his grandchildren) in 2016 Princess Helena's 4 children were all given duchies. While it has not officially been confirmed, many believe it was a sign that Queen Klara was not going to have children and, given the 1980 Act of Succession introduced absolute primogeniture, Princess Helena's children were the next generation's presumptive heirs.
Gustav VI Adolf (b.1882 r.1950 d.1973) m. a) Margaret of Connaught, b) Lady Louise Mountbatten
- a) Gustav Adolf, Duke of Vasterbotten(1906 - 1947) m. Helena of the UK
- Margaretha Desiree Helena** (1932 - 1975) m. Peter Dahl
- Gustav Harald Dahl (1964 -)
- Albert Peter Dahl (1967 -)
- Eugenie Helena Dahl (1970 -)
- Carl Gustav Edward Christian, Duke of Jamtland (1934 - 2009) m. Miss Pauline Williams***
- Birgitta Alice Victoria (1936 - 2009) m. Prince Maximilian of Baden
- Marie Helena Elisabeth Mathilde Theodora Cecilie Louise Charlotte (1969 -)
- Bernhard Max Friedrich August Gustav Kraft (1971 -)
- Leopold Max Christian Ludwig Gustav Carl (1972 -)
- Oscar Edmund Arthur Johan, Duke of Ostergotland (1939 -2015) m. Marie Lundqvist-Björk
- Desiree Helena Marie, Duchess of Blekinge(1977 -)
- Edmund Carl Gustav, Duke of Angermanland(1977-)
- Magnus Oscar Johan, Duke of Norbotten( 1980 -)
- Margaretha Desiree Helena** (1932 - 1975) m. Peter Dahl
- a) Prince Sigvard, Duke of Uppland* (1907 -2002) m. a) Erika Patzek, b) Sonja Robbert, c) Marianne Lindberg
- b) Count Michael of Wisborg (1944)
- a) Ingrid (1910 - 2000) m. Frederik IX of Denmark
- Princess Margarethe of Denmark (1940)
- Princess Benedikte of Denmark (1944)
- a) Bertil, Duke of Halland (1912 - 1997) m. Lillian Davies
- a) Carl Johan, Duke of Darlana* (1916 - 2012) m. a) Kerstin Wijmark, b) Gunnila Bussler
- two adopted children
- a) miscarried/stillborn child (1920)
- b) Stillborn daughter (1925)
Carl XVI Gustav (b.1934 r.1973 d.2009) m. Miss Pauline Williams
- Carl Henry Gustav Bertil, Duke of Varmland (1976 -) m. Klara McNamara
- Helena Louise Mary Christina, Duchess of Vastergotland (1978 -) m. Benjamin Bullock
- Alexander Carl Bertil, Duke of Jamtland (2009 - )****
- Philip Gustav Joseph, Duke of Skane (2011-)
- Nicholas Markus Johan, Duke of Uppland (2011 -)
- Emilia Ulrika Eleanora, Duchess of Halland (2014 -)
- Erik Johan Edmund Peter, Duke of Narke (1982 -) m. Roza Lang
- Natalia Pauline Charlotte (2011 -)
- Tatiana Ingrid Lillian (2013 -)
- Josephine Alexandra Margaretha (2016 -)
- Paul Carl Viktor (2019 -)
- Wilhelm Arthur Albert Magnus, Duke of Gotland (1984 -) m. Adelaide Sander
- Frederica Mathilde Louisa (2015 -)
- Elisabeth Ulrika Ingrid Margaretha, Duchess of Oland (1986 -) m. Oliver Schroter
- Matthias Carl (2019 -)
- Lilia Christina (2021 -)
- Daniel Magnus (2025 -)
*Lost title due to unequal marriage, now known as Count of Wisborg
**Lost title due to unequal marriage
***While the future Carl XVI Gustaf became engaged to the 25-year-old Pauline Williams, daughter of the Australian ambassador, in 1971 the couple didn't marry until 1975 due to not wanting Carl to lose his place in the line of succession and the later commotion from his ascension.
****While giving duchies to non-mainline grandchildren was due to be phased out with Carl XVI's grandchildren (with one minister joking that given the King had five children there wouldn't be enough duchies in all of Sweden for all his grandchildren) in 2016 Princess Helena's 4 children were all given duchies. While it has not officially been confirmed, many believe it was a sign that Queen Klara was not going to have children and, given the 1980 Act of Succession introduced absolute primogeniture, Princess Helena's children were the next generation's presumptive heirs.
Henry II m. Eleanor of Aquitaine
4b. Henry, the Young King m. Ida of Boulogne
5b. Matilda of England m. William II of Sicily
5b. Richard I of Aquitaine m. Margaret of France
6b. Geoffrey II, Duke of Brittany m. Constance, Duchess of Brittany
7b. Eleanor of England m. Alfonso VIII of Castile
8b. Joan of England m. Henry VI, Holy Roman Emperor
9b. John, Lord of Ireland m. Alice of Savoy
Frederick Barbarossa m. Beatrice of Burgundy
1b. Beatrice of Swabia b. 1157?1162? m. Henry the Lion, Duke of Saxony and Bavaria
3b. Henry VI, Holy Roman Emperor b.1165 d. 1200 m. Joan of England
5b. Gisele of Swabia b. 1168 m. Philippe II Auguste of France
6b. Eudes I, Count of Burgundy m. Margaret of Blois
7b. Conrad II, Duke of Swabia m. Matilda of Sicily
10a. Philip I, Holy Roman Emperor
4b. Henry, the Young King m. Ida of Boulogne
5b. Matilda of England m. William II of Sicily
5b. Richard I of Aquitaine m. Margaret of France
6b. Geoffrey II, Duke of Brittany m. Constance, Duchess of Brittany
7b. Eleanor of England m. Alfonso VIII of Castile
8b. Joan of England m. Henry VI, Holy Roman Emperor
9b. John, Lord of Ireland m. Alice of Savoy
Frederick Barbarossa m. Beatrice of Burgundy
1b. Beatrice of Swabia b. 1157?1162? m. Henry the Lion, Duke of Saxony and Bavaria
3b. Henry VI, Holy Roman Emperor b.1165 d. 1200 m. Joan of England
5b. Gisele of Swabia b. 1168 m. Philippe II Auguste of France
6b. Eudes I, Count of Burgundy m. Margaret of Blois
7b. Conrad II, Duke of Swabia m. Matilda of Sicily
10a. Philip I, Holy Roman Emperor
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You should probably be clearer in your notes then. If you say alt Elisabeth II people are going to assume alt heir to the throne unless you're clear their father never became king.
Actually, the eldest daughter of Barbarossa can marry Henry the Lion due to similar age with his OTL wife.