I really like the idea of Charlton continuing to exist in this timeline. Though they're going to need a new niche with so much more competition on the newsstands. I feel like there might be a coup or shakeup in the Editorial Department with a new mandate. As a result Charlton goes experimental. This could mean pushing the limit of the Comics Code Authority or an adult line who borrows the Magazine Sized format from Warren to skirt the CCA guidelines. We could also see deconstruction of the medium come earlier. I'm just imagining Mark Gruenwald as this is mid to late 70's and he'd be the hungry young talent they're looking for with this idea for what would become Squadron Supreme in our timeline rolling around in his head but all the bigger publishers being afraid to touch it, he pitches it at Charlton and the Editor responds "We have these characters we purchased from Fox, can you work them in." Or a 20 something Frank Miller taking hold of a title and saying hey "Why don't we mix crime noir and superheroes." Maybe even Mike Grell sinking his teeth into something or even the 007 licensed comic. Another option of course is Charlton operating as an importer translating and reprinting the top comics from France, Britain, Japan, wherever bringing them to an American audience. Maybe as a result an artist like Moebius ends up doing a project at Charlton. Or a mix of all ideas as Charlton tries to find a niche.
Fawcett comics survives
- Thread starter THeaven
- Start date
This is kinda what I had in mind, although I'm against the Fox heroes being made into villains so I'm more for the Frank Millar and Mike Grell suggestions. Let Squadron Supreme happen at Atlas where it belongs. As for deconstruction, I actually had the idea where Alan Moore freelances for Charlton and along with their newest artist, Dave Gibson turns the concept of Watchmen into a Big Crossover Event that changes both the Charlton Universe and the State of comics. I also see Stardust in the place of Dr. Manhatten in that scenario too. Let's face it, there's a character that skirts the edges of both the CC and taste and decency in general. Charlton's universe should be a continuous deconstruction and yet celebration of both the superhero and pulp genres, where the Atlas philosophy of ''flawed heroes'' is fully realised while still keeping the majority of their heroes as Good People. One thing that WOULD help that would be if Charlton are somehow able to buy the rights for Mr. A from Ditko.
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I already butterflied the Squadron Supreme & yhe Extremist away (as we know them) ITTL as their are more than 2 major comic book companies so I have no problem having Mark Gruenwald using his Squadron Supreme story with the Fox Features heroes. and as for Watchmen I'm afraid it will have to be butterflied away as the bases for Nite Owl and Rorchach are with Fawcett and the expy for laurie has also been split up between DC & Charlton.
Now on to more important news
- 1972 is one of the messiest political elections of the 20th century if Ditko takes over Fawcett now consider Fawcett to be more conservative of a company then the others
- 1974 has a paper shortage in the United States so consider which titles will be dropped
I understand that. My idea would be to have something akin to the Keene Act in Watchmen occur in the regular comics, maybe have Ted Kord's Yellowjacket take up the Nite Owl roll while either Odd Man or Mr A take up the spot of Rorschach and with all the other Charlton heroes filling similar roles. It'd be more like what Alan Moore wanted to do originally IOTL, before DC's editorial plans for the Charlton roster forced him to create pastiches of those characters. Think that, only with more powers and more heroes and villains getting involved.
Right. I was kinda hoping that Ditko would have at least been made a better person because of his time at Fawcett, but maybe him being in that kinda power position so close to that of Jerry Siegel will allow him to have a kind of ''Scrooge Moment.'' As for the election itself, tell me if this is a stupid question, but do you in any way foresee any circumstances in which the increased number of big comic book and media companies, in general, would trigger a chain reaction butterfly effect that in turn would lead to George McGovern becoming POTUS? Maybe even cause Sargent Shriver to become the democratic nominee instead?
- Actually when I was considering Watchmen ITTL Dan & Adrian switched roles as Peter Cannon is a legacy character ITTL, and the original Blue beetle is tied to accent Egypt
- Yeah I was working on the idea that Beck & Siegel's treatment of Ditko is well he is a talented artist and if we avoid talking about politics we can have a cohesive workplace. That being said the comic book industry will not be in the position of power to affect American politics to that effect
- The only way for Watchmen to actually be a thing ITTL is for it to become a company-wide Crossover Event for Charlton in it's main universe. Some of the same elements and plot points of OTL's Watchmen, but with different and more characters, fantastical elements and of course a somewhat happier ending.
- The only way to stop Fawcett from leaning to the right as I see it, is for Beck, upon his retirement, to have Jerry and Steve run the company together with the quiet understanding that if the two don't end up tearing each other apart, The company won't do or say anything to destroy consumer trust and Ditko may actually change his objectivist views and start seeing the importance of unity, welfare, compassion and putting others first.
Personally I was considering having Otto Binder (who did not become an alcoholic ITTL ) or Jack Cole take over from Beck instead
More likely Binder as his daughter will be writing Mary Marvel in November
OK, so, if the Squadron Supreme @ Charlton thing is going to work, it has to be like the one from OTL. Here's the twist though. It'd involve a Group of Fox heroes from the 1940s that have been living in a 1950s styled time loop ever since the HUAC trials by Stardust villain ''The Super Fiend'' and it's up to the Bullseye Battalion to rescue them. It'd be there that we find out about the first Blue Beetle, Dan Garrett Sr. How about this lineup?
Stardust the Super Wizard
The Green Mask
Purple Tigress
Wonder Man
Samson
The Flame
The Dart
Also, how's this for a series idea for Charlton? The continued adventures of these two, during WWII.
Stardust the Super Wizard
The Green Mask
Purple Tigress
Wonder Man
Samson
The Flame
The Dart
Also, how's this for a series idea for Charlton? The continued adventures of these two, during WWII.
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I think this is a pretty good idea and line up Igeo though might need some expansion. The concept should be the same what happens when heroes take their pursuit of justice too far, when the choice of being good is taken away it's not really good anymore. A time loop like this could very easily break some heroes all their decisions seeming to be pointless nothing ever really changing, so they come up with more and more extreme ways to keep the peace. Also really like Purple Tigress she could be a great analogue for the Mink, a character that should be brought into the mainstream Marvel Universe in some fashion in my opinion. Also Roy Thomas created the Squadron Supreme originally, though Gruenwald created the popular 12 issue miniseries using those characters, so they might still be at Atlas in some fashion and we might need a different name.
I feel like Watchmen could be done in a similar manner as our timeline. Alan Moore wants to have this crossover event at Charlton but they're not buying as they already have a lot going on at this point, probably early 80's and riding a wave of success from all this experimentation. One of the boys at Atlas is hanging out with Moore and says "The big wigs are really interested in this Epic idea. Getting more indie talent on board early with a creator owned imprint." Alan Moore has always been frustrated at losing control of his characters so he sets up a meeting and pitches Watchmen making the familiar stand ins for the Charlton Characters he'd have used otherwise. Watchmen is a smash hit and Atlas/Epic agrees to publish Moore's Twilight of the Superheroes, and maybe a prequel in League of Extraordinary Gentleman, V for Vendetta too. Epic becomes the house that Moore built.
Meanwhile the Executives at Atlas are happy to get some sales back from that surging Charlton but slapping themselves for not retaining the rights to the Watchmen and all this new material. How do they capitalize on all this they need something new a whole new world, a New Universe. Covering their asses and only making vague references to Moore's final issue of Watchmen, the Veidt attack on New York is now called the White Event and launches The New Universe a superhero imprint separate from the 616 Atlas Universe and focusing on the real life ramifications of the first superhumans emerging post Dr. Manhattan. Moore of course is furious and ends his relationship with Atlas immediately, one of the biggest free agents in all of comics.
So what book at Charlton would be good for Frank Miller to take over and infuse some crime noir into?
The Mike Grell idea for me was basically Charlton getting the license to print 007 James Bond comics and Grell writing it as one of his dream projects. It's a critical success with strong sales. The Charlton brass are leery and feel it's likely they'll lose the license to a higher bidder as it's a bestseller. But they have been paying attention to Fawcett and how they successfully spun off Black Sentinel from the Green Hornet License. They want Grell to do something similar and come to him about creating a second comic about the support staff and goings on inside spy agencies and all the tough decisions that are made there, it crosses over with 007 often. In those pages we are introduced to a bounty hunter who often complicates the work of MI6 and the CIA. Never an enemy but often antagonistic toward Bond, Jon Sable is spun off into his own book.
Also do we still get Eclipse Comics in this world? Is there an Airboy revival? Are those characters created elsewhere?
Ok those are my two cents hope some of those ideas are helpful. Thanks so much for this time line I'll keep reading any which way.
As long as the Fox Heroes end up escaping the time loop and rejoin the main universe by the end of things, I'm all for this idea. After All, Charlton needs that universe expansion.
Well, In my opinion, it should be either Peacemaker or Sarge Steel, though possibly the latter since he's already street-based and a cop/spy.
If not, then I think that the DNAgents would work great at Charlton as their first-ever Teen Hero team to compete with The LoSH, Teen Titans and X-Men.
You know, I've been advocating for Viacom to buy Fawcett, so that they could have Cartoons on an MTV Kids block or on Nickelodeon if Warner still sells it ITTL, but in reality, if Charlton's going to go experimental, Viacom should buy Charlton instead and have all of their MTV kids Cartoons come from their heroes. It's more fitting if you ask me.
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There will still be an independent comic book movement ITTL don't worry
That's good. Still think the DNAgents should be Charlton's though. It'd give them a better chance. By the way, since we're looking ahead to the 80s, One other thing I'd like to suggest is that Moore also does work for Fawcett with Mick Anglo, (Art) and Steve Ditko (Panelist/Colourist) called ''Whatever Happened to the World's Mightiest Mortal?'' It'd work seeing as how the LoSH was a huge part of ''Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?'' and now they belong to Fawcett.
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Well, since we are doing the eighties how about DC gearing up for the Crisis on Infinite Earths deciding they needed another earth to destroy. They don't have Earth S at this time and they hear Mattell wants to sell Western Publishing. They beat real estate developer Richard Bernstein to the punch and get not only the Gold Key characters but the Pokey Little Puppy and other Little Golden Books as a bonus. And maybe they bring back the Big Little Book too.
This is an idea with a lot of potential as DC doesn't have a comic in the far flung future unless my Blackhawks idea happened in this timeline. Magnus Robot Fighter is one of my all time favorite comics and as part of DC comics could fill a part of their history that hasn't been fleshed out well yet.
Alternatively, they could always buy Hanna-Barbera early and incorporate it as Earth-HB along with Earth-Four. (Dell) Imagine Johnny Quest, Mightor, Space Ghost, Captain Planet, Blue Falcon, The Herculoids, Mystery Inc, Wacky Races, Frankienstein Jr, The Galaxy Trio, Jabberjaw, The Impossibles, Sealab and eventually The Powerpuff Girls and SWAT Cats, as part of the main DCU Post-Crisis. The ones in bold would be more than enough to build up DC's future.
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I was thinking IF DC does not buy Charlton ITTL then Goldkey would possibly be on the table at this point IOTL DC did buy the leases for the Tarzan characters from Gold key and Crisis with Solar, Brain boy, & Turok could be interesting
I envision such a scenario as follows.
Earth-One: (Main DCU, Pre-Crisis.)
Earth-Two: (Golden Age Continuity.)
Earth-X: (Freedom Fighters Earth. Contains Quality Characters from Earth-Two)
Earth-4: (Dell/Gold Key Characters, since the two companies are basically deeply connected)
Earth-HB: (Hanna Barbera shared Universe)
All in all, DC is looking at a VERY interesting future after COIE.
Look we are jumping the gun I just had a thought. If the HB superheroes are joining the DC universe before Crisis than Hanna Barbera would probably make a Crisis on infinite earth's cartoon miniseries in the 80s (which will deviate from the comics)
- Considering Ralph Dibley, and Ray Palmer have taken the identity of Plastic man & Dollman it makes more sense to make the Golden age versions part of Earth 2s All star Squadron instead giving them their own world
- The Dell/Gold key earth Earth-X
- Split HB into 2 earths (with Yogi and gang part of Captain Carrots world)
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