Family Trees from My WIs

[Kellan Sullivan]

The two Marie's in question being the sister and daughter of Jean 'sans Peur', Duke of Burgundy:

Jean I, Duke of Burgundy [1404-1419] (1371-1419) m: 1385 Margarethe of Bavaria-Straubing (1365-1423)

Marie (1393-1463) m: 1406[1] Henry V, King of England (1386-)​

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Mary (b.1408) m: 1422 Philippe III, Duke of Burgundy[2] (1396-)​

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Henry, Prince of Wales (b.1410) m: Castile?​

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Edward (b.1412)​

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Margaret (b.1413)​

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Philippa (b.1416)​

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Richard (b.1419)​

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Philippe III, Duke of Burgundy [1419-1467] (1396-1467) 1m: 1409 [ann.1419[3]] Marie de Valois (1393-1438); 2m: 1420 Mary of England (b.1408)​

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[1m.] Marguerite (1411-1467) m:​

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[1m.] Marie(1412-1458)​

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[1m.] Anne (1416-1451)​

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[1m.] Stillborn Son (1417)​

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[2m.] ?​

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Other issue​

Marie (1386-1422) m: 1402 Adolf, Count of Cleves (1373-1448)

Maria (1404-1467) m: 1423 Wilhelm I, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel[4] (1392-1482)​

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Stillborn Child (1405)​

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Johann, Duke of Cleves [1448-1460] (1408-1460) m: ?​

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Stillborn Son (1409)​

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Adolf (1410-1456) m: ?​

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Margarethe (1411-1480) m: 1430 Arnold, Duke of Guelders (1410-1473)​

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Stillborn Son (1412)​

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Katharina (1414-1455) 1m: 1433 Wilhelm III, Duke of Bavaria-Münich[5] (1375-1435); 2m: 1441 Ulrich V, Count of Württemberg (1413-1480)​

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Elisabeth (1416-1425)​

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Agnes (1419-1447) m: 1434 Heinrich XXVI, Prince of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt (1418-1488)​

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[1] Minimum marriageable age being 13yo for a girl
[2] Her uncle, recently separated from Marie de Valois. It’s probably a stretch, but since Philippe only has daughters from his first marriage
[3] Philippe uses the excuse of OTL Louis XII (that he wasn’t old enough to consent to the marriage)
[4] This isn’t such a weird match. Wilhelm’s half-brother married the daughter of the duke of Cleves, and Wilhelm’s full-sister was engaged to the count of Berg (from 1397 until 1400) until the count married Yolande of Bar instead.
[5] I wasn’t sure if this was a match that had anything to do with Wilhelm being considered the potential successor to Emperor Sigismund or not (Wilhelm seems a relatively "unimportant player" otherwise IMO @Jan Olbracht @Zygmunt Stary

@VVD0D95 @isabella @Brita @material_boy @Jan Olbracht @Carolus @CaptainShadow @Victoria @RedKing

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

"After the death of Emperor Louis the Bavarian, it seemed to many as if a repeat of Louis' own election in 1314 would take place. The Wittelsbachs versus the Luxembourgs in another round of this dance. But this is an oversimplification of the events that took place. Even more than it is of the personalities.

"There was no single Wittelsbach "party" in the election. Just like the fact that your relation to the last emperor didn't mean you would automatically vote for the Wittelsbachs.

"The most obvious of these was Rupert II of the Palatinate. He was tied into the Wittelsbach Imperial network in several ways. His father was Adolf of the Palatinate, an older nephew of the late emperor, and a grandson of anti-king Adolf of Nassau. The Palatine Wittelsbachs nursed a grievance against their imperial cousins for usurping their inheritance. Rupert II's father, Adolph the Honest, had died fighting for his "fair share" in the Wittelsbach inheritance, leaving a two year old son under the regency of his pro-Habsburg uncle, Rudolph the Blind.

"The main Wittelsbach candidate in 1347 was naturally the deceased emperor's olddest son, Louis, Count of Tirol by marriage and former margrave of Brandenburg. He was supported by many of those who had benefitted from the Wittelsbach rule. These included his brother-in-law, Frederick of Meissen, and his son-in-law (who by a bizarre twist was also his wife's ex-husband), Johann Heinrich, Margrave of Brandenburg.

"A second Wittelsbach "splinter party" was headed by Rupert of the Palatinate who sponsored the candidacy of his in-law, Louis' surviving full brother, Stephen. Many dismiss Rupert's support as being simply the product of there being no Habsburg candidate available: Frederick the Handsome, Louis the Bavarian's "co-emperor" until his death1330, had left no son; nor had his late brother, Otto the Merry, whose son, once engaged to the king of England's daughter, had died in December 1344. Thus Albert the Lame ruled the entirety of the Habsburg lands. But since he supported Louis of Tirol, he was no use to Rupert's goal. However, in Rupert's sponsoring of his in-law one can see a finer hand at work. Rupert knew his own candidacy was not likely to raise objections from the Bavarian supporters, and so, he shrewdly backed his brother-in-law (Stephen and Rudolph the Blind were both married to Sicilian princesses, daughters of Frederick II of Sicily, while Rupert was married to Frederick's granddaughter).

"Finally the third of the Wittelsbach parties emerged. This was formed by Dowager Empress Margaret, Countess of Holland and Hainaut in her own right and stepmother to the aforementioned Louis and Stephen. Her oldest son was still shy of his majority, but had been married to the king of Poland, Casimir the Great's daughter since 1345. The girl was only twelve years old, so a child any time soon would be unlikely. Ergo, Margaret did the next best thing. She found a candidate who would ensure that the real power in Germany remained in her hands, and who would have no problem passing the power to her eldest son (confusingly also called Louis) when the tine came: her brother-in-law, Edward III of England.

"With all these internal divisions dividing the Wittelsbach support, it's hardly any surprise that none of them were elected emperor. Edward III's candidacy was, at first, successful, but he quickly realized how untenable the situation was, and resigned after eleven days. His war with France also made the German princes uneasy about being dragged into it if he were to be elected. Louis of Bavaria, Count of Tirol, was known to be rather friendly with Denmark and his aggression in the name of his one-time brother-in-law, Waldemar Atterdag, as well as his own policies both in Pomerania and Tirol didn't inspire confidence in those princes whose lands bordered on his. Even if he had - via Albert the Lame - papal endorsement of his candidacy. Thus, the princes elected the king of Bohemia: Charles Wenceslas." - Johann Jakob Gottfried Oberholzer, The Power and the Politics of 14th Century Germany (1992)

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

@isabella @Jan Olbracht @Carolus @RedKing @material_boy @Ivan Lupo @CaptainShadow @VVD0D95 @The Professor @Zygmunt Stary @Zulfurium @Brita @FouDuRoy

Couple of questions regarding this tree (and the Berri/Breton ones attached to it):

Looking for matches for the following people:

Catherine and Isabeau de Valois (sisters of TTL Charles VII). One of them is likely to be married in Castile, but that still leaves the other (OTL Catherine de Valois I'm considering as either wife of James I of Scotland or an alt-son of his older brother)
Maria of Navarre (sister to TTL Charles VII's wife)
Marie of Burgundy (sister of Jean sans Peur, OTL countess of Savoy, since her place has been taken by Jeanne de Valois)
Philippe the Good of Burgundy needs a second wife (Jacqueline of Holland is already spoken for, unfortunately), and his daughters need husbands

Carlos II ‘el Malo’, King of Navarre [1349-1387] (1332-1387) m: 1352 Jeanne de Valois (1343-1373)

Maria (1360-1400) m:​

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Carlos, Prince of Viana (1361-1382[1]) m: 1375 Catalina of Castile[2] (b.1361)​

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Bona (1364-1389)​

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Pedro ‘el Prudente’, King of Navarre [1387-1428], Duc de Normandie[3] [1419-1428] Comte de Gien et d’Étampes [1400-1428], Comte d’Évreux [1387-1428], Comte de Mortain [1376-1378; 1401-1412], (1366-1428) m: 1381 Marie de Coucy (1366-1422)​

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Pedro, Prince of Viana (1387-1413[4]) m: 1402 Isabeau de Valois[5] (1389-1441)​

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Isabel, Queen of Navarre (1406-1458) m: 1419 Charles VII, King of France (1405-1445)​

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Issue​

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Pedro, Prince of Viana (1410-1415)​

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Maria (1412-1468) m: 1422 Carlo IV, King of Naples[6] (1406-1451)​

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Issue​

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Isabelle (1390-1439) m: 1402 Gaston V, Comte de Foix et de Bigorre, Vicomte de Béarn[7] (1385-1433)​

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Jeanne (1392-1414)​

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Charles, Duc de Normandie [as Charles II, 1428-1435] Comte de Gien, d’Étampes, d’Évreux et Mortain (1394-1435) m: 1410 Bonne d’Artois, Comtesse d’Eu[8] (1395-1451)​

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Marie (1416-1470) m: ?​

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Pierre (1418-1422)​

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Charles III, Duc de Normandie (1420-1472) m: ?​

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Enguerrand (1397)​

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Catherine (1398-1456) m: 1415 Duarte I, King of Portugal[9] (1391-1438)​

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Felipe (1368)​

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Juana (1370-1437) m: ?​

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Blanca (1372-1385) m: ?​

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[1] Killed in the battle of Mont-de-Marsan against Armagnac forces
[2] Daughter of Pedro I of Castile and Blanche of Navarre
[3] Pedro managed to get his lands in Normandie bumped up to a duchy, as well as make it part of his granddaughter’s marriage contract that the various holdings he had acquired in Normandy were to pass to his younger son rather than revert to the crown. Call it the price of his loyalty. Last thing France or England wants is him to offer Isabel’s hand (with those lands attached) to Aragon or Brittany.
[4] The Burgundian/Armagnac War of OTL ends up being a far more brutal affair thanks to, how, instead of killing the duc d’Orléans, the assassins merely wounded him severely. But did manage to kill his son (Charles le Poete) who was accompanying him. Orléans is out for blood once he recovers and the period gets summed up by later historians as “pick a side or run and hide”. The Prince of Viana ends up getting wounded (his leg having to be amputated as a result) and later dying of injuries received fighting the Orléanists.
[5] Isabeau’s governess/mistress of the robes (under Richard II) was Philippa de Coucy. So a Navarrese match for Isabeau is not as weird as it sounds.
[6] Son of Louis III d’Anjou (b.1390) – the son of Louis II d’Anjou and Giovanna II of Naples (Ladislao is stillborn) – and Yolande of Aragon.
[7] Son of Gaston IV and Béatrice d’Armagnac (he poisons his dad – accidentally – and thus avoids his own OTL death). Since Béatrice’s brothers both die at Mont-de-Marsan, the Armagnac and Foix titles are combined.
[8] Only child of Philippe d’Artois, Comte d’Eu and his wife, Bonne of Burgundy (1379-1399).
[9] This match doesn’t seem to make much sense, but it was prompted by the fact that the future Isabel I of Navarre was slated to marry her cousin, TTL Charles VII; while Charles VII’s sister is betrothed to the future king of Castile. Portugal wants an English match, and there is talk of Charles VII’s mother being offered to Duarte. However, a tag-team of Pedro of Navarre and Isabeau de Valois (who loathes the Lancastrians, particularly after they very politely just arrange the marriage of her daughter to the dauphin) negotiates that his youngest daughter be offered to Portugal instead. It doesn’t hurt that Catherine herself is bewitchingly beautiful.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

@Brita @material_boy

Building on this:

Jean IV, Duke of Brittany [1345-1399] (1339-1399) 1m: 1361 Mary of England (1344-1362); 2m: 1366 Joan de Holland (1350-1379); 3m: 1381 Bona of Navarre (1367-1397)

[2m.] Jeanne (1375-1379)​

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[2m.] Jean V, Duke of Brittany [1399-1432] (1376-1432) m: 1399 Catherine d'Alençon [1] (b.1380)​

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[2m.] Marguerite (1379-1432) m: 1394 Edward, 2e Duke of York [2] (b.1373)​

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[3m.] Pierre (1388-1390)​

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[3m.] Arthur (1390)​

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[3m.] Marie (1392-1450) m: 1400 Alain IX de Rohan, Comte de Porhoët [3] (b.1382)​

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[3m.] Bonne (1395-1443) m: ?​

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[1] OTL, Catherine's brother was his parents' ninth kid, and, at the time of his birth, their only son. Catherine might be French but she's also not "partisan" (Burgundy, Berri, Anjou, Orléans). OTL she married twice (first to Pedro of Navarre, then to Ludwig VII of Bavaria-Ingolstadt).
[2] Edward of Norwich is Richard II's "favourite". Marguerite is also Richard II's half-niece. The marriage sees Edward created "Lord Warden of the Cinq Ports" in 1396 (instead of his dad). My idea is that Anglo-Breton relations take a nose-dive following Richard II's deposition
[3] as meh as a Rohan match sounds, the comtes de Porhoët are "already" starting their climb. In 1373, Alain IX's granddad married Bona of Navarre's aunt, Jeanne. And in 1374, Alain's aunt, another Jeanne, had married Catherine d'Alençon's uncle, the comte du Perche. Not to mention Alain IX's mom is the daughter of Olivier de Clisson, the Constable of France. As with Jean V-Catherine, Marie-Alain is a French match aimed at not being "too French" for the English, or "too English" for the French.

@Jan Olbracht @VVD0D95 @CaptainShadow @isabella:

With this tree, I wondered if Catherine d'Alençon being a favourite of Isabeau de Valois is going to have effects on Brittany's involvement in the whole Burgundian-Orléans feud to come. From what I can find on her, she doesn't SEEM to be a political player. OTL, when the Armagnacs captured her, her husband (Ludwig of Bavaria) refused to even ransom her. However, that Bernard d'Armagnac saw her as important enough to capture, and Henry V saw her as important enough to award her 20000 francs in damages via the treaty of Troyes plus have her "participate" (not sure in what sense) in both his marriage to Catherine de Valois and the baptism of Henry VI, would imply that she has a certain level of political clout that FAR exceeds the mere countship of Mortain in Normandie.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Showcasing the life and times of Charles VI's youngest daughter, Catherine de Valois:

James I, King of Scots (1394-1442) m: 1424 Catherine de Valois, Dowager Duchesse de Bourbon (b.1401)

James II, King of Scots (b.1425) m: 1448 Margareta of Denmark [1] (b.1428)​

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James, Duke of Rothesay (1451-1459)​

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Stillborn Son (1454)​

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Mary (b.1455)​

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Margaret (1457-1459)​

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David, Duke of Rothesay (b.1463)​

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Stillborn Son (1465)​

Stillborn Son (1426)​

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Margaret (1429-1455) m: 1443 Pietro, Duke of Calabria[2] (1427-1458)​

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Ludovico (1443-1453)​

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Carlo (b.1446)​

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Margherita (b.1448)​

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Maria (b.1450)​

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Giacomo (1451)​

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Caterina (b.1455)​

Annabella (b.1430) m: 1445 Wilhelm VIII, Count of Holland & Hainaut, Duke of Bavaria-Straubing [3] (1426-1486)​

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For issue see previous tree​

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David, Duke of Albany (1432-1446)​

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Katherine (b.1435) m: 1450 Louis XI, King of France [4] (b.1434)​

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Louis, Dauphin de Viennois, Prince of Viana (1454-1454)​

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Marie (b.1456)​

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Charles, Dauphin de Viennois, Prince of Viana (b.1457)​

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Pierre (b.1459)​

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Louise (b.1462)​

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Jacques (1464-1473)​

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François (b.1468)​

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Jeanne (b.1470)​

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Stillborn Son (1471)​

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Marguerite (b.1472)​

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Philippe (1473-1475)​

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Catherine (b.1474)​

Stillborn Son (1437)​

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Joan (b.1439) m: 1453 Francesco II, Duke of Savoy [5] (1436-1480)​

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Amadeo IX, Duke of Savoy (b.1460)​

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Stillborn Daughter (1463)​

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Maria (b.1465)​

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Giovanna (1470-1477)​

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Stillborn Son (1471)​

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Bianca (b.1472)​

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Luisa (b.1474)​

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Giacomo (b.1477)​

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Stillborn Son (1478)​

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Maddalena (b.1480)​

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Eleanor (b.1440) m: 1455 Friedrich III, Holy Roman Emperor [6] (b.1415)​

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Christoph (b.1456)​

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Helene (b.1458)​

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Kunigunde (b.1459)​

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Maximilian (b.1460)​

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Wolfgang [7] (1463-1463)​

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Barbara (b.1465)​

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Stillborn Son (1468)​

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[1] daughter of Erik VIII of Denmark (son of Erik of Pomerania and a different wife) and Mary (b.1408) the eldest daughter of Henry V and Marie of Burgundy
[2] son of Carlo IV, King of Naples and Maria of Navarre (daughter of Catherine's oldest sister, Isabeau). Maria's older sister, the queen of Navarre, is also Louis XI's mother
[3] see previous tree
[4] third (and youngest) but oldest surviving son of Charles VII of France (grandson of Charles VI) and Isabella, Queen of Navarre.
[5] son of Francesco I, Duke of Savoy (son of Catherine's sister, Jeanne, and Amadeus VIII of Savoy)
[6] yes, I know, Friedrich ending up as emperor like OTL is probably unlikely, but I figured it was easier than designating him Frederick V of Austria and having to explain it. As for the likelihood of the match, it's actually OTL. After one of his matrimonial plans (I suspect the one to Marguerite d'Anjou) failed, it was suggested that Friedrich marry the sister of the dauphine/duchess of Brittany, Eleanor of Scots. Here that marriage goes through
[7] patron saint of carpenters. The names are based on Friedrich's OTL kids' names being of either obscure saints (Maximilian, Kunigunde) or likewise prompted by "religious/mystical" elements (Christopher and Helena) rather than calling them after family members

@isabella @Jan Olbracht @Carolus @RedKing @material_boy @Ivan Lupo @CaptainShadow @VVD0D95 @The Professor @Zygmunt Stary @Zulfurium @Brita @FouDuRoy @Marc Anthony

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Something different and inspired by my post from here

Edward II, King of England 1307-1343] (1284-1343) 1m: 1308 Isabelle of France (1295-1321[1]); 2m: 1324 ?

[1m.] Edward III, King of England [from 1343] (b.1312) m: 1325 Violante of Aragon (b.1310)​

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Isabella (b.1333)​

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Edward, Prince of Wales (b.1335)​

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Blanche (b.1340)​

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Lionel[5] (b.1342)​

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John (b.1343)​

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Mary (b.1345)​

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Katherine (b.1348)​

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[1m.] Miscarriage (1313[2])​

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[1m.] John, Earl of Cornwall (b.1316) m (I honestly have no idea where he'd marry)​

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[1m.] Eleanor (b.1318) m: 1333[3] Alfonso IX, King of Castile (b.1311)​

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Fernando (b.1335)​

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Isabel (1337)​

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Duarte (b.1338)​

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Costança (1339-1347)​

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Leonor (b.1340)​

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[1m.] Stillborn Daughter (1319[3])​

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[1m.] Joan (b.1321) m: 1335 Pedro IV, King of Aragon (b.1319)​

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Alfonso (1340-1349)​

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Teresa (b.1342)​

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Isabel (1344-1350)​

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Juana (b.1346)​

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Pedro (b.1347)​

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Duarte (1349)​

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Alfonso (b.1351)​

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Maria (1353-1355)​

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Leonor (b.1354)​

[1] dies giving birth to Joan of the Tower
[2] Isabella's chamber accounts list entries for purchases of pennyroyal, traditionally prescribed after a miscarriage
[3] he doesn't marry his cousin Constanza here, although given Edward II/III's other ties to Iberia/France, he probably is a bit leery of slighting Eleanor the same way he did Maria of Portugal OTL. Then again, Eleanor's OTL husband locked her up in a castle and called her leprous, so it might be a wash
[4] there is only one contemporary source (Robert of Reading) that mentions this child, and it calls her Joan. And that she was born at York. This may have been an error (confusing the birth year of the actual Joan) or there was a pregnancy that ended in miscarriage/stillbirth.
[5] there are two stories about why Edward III named his second son Lionel was a sort of "English bastardization" of Llewellyn; or the fact that his dad identified with "Sir Lionel" (and often rode incognito in tournaments under the alias), a knight of King Arthur's court.

@VVD0D95 @isabella @Diego @Kurt_Steiner @Emperor Lucas I @30PrincesAndAKing @iMercadier @ others

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Based on this thread:


Philippe IV, Duke of Burgundy (1478-1511) m: 1498 Juana, Queen of Castile (1479-1555)

Eleonore (1498-1558) 1m: 1519 Manuel, King of Portugal (1469-1521); 2m: 1530 François I, King of France (1494-1547)​

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[1m.] Carlos (1520-1521)​

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[1m.] Maria (1521-1577) 1m: 1536 François, Dauphin de Viennois (1518-1536); 2m: 1540 François I, Duke of Lorraine (1517-1546); 3m: 1548 Wilhelm, Duke of Cleves (b.1516 [9])​

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[2m.] Jean III, Duke of Lorraine (1542-1602)​

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[2m.] Stillborn Daughter (1544)​

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[2m.] Eleonore Philippine (b.1545)​

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[2m.] Marie Antoinette (b.1547)​

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[3m.] Maria Anna (b.1541)​

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[3m.] Karl Emanuel, Duke of Cleves (b.1553)​

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[3m.] Stillborn Son (1555)​

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[3m.] Magdalene Sibylle (b.1558)​

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[3m.] Stillborn Daughter (1560)​

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[3m.] Johann Philip, Archbishop of Cologne (b.1563)​

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Karl V, Holy Roman Emperor [1519-1558 [5]] (1500-1558) 1m: 1525 Isabel of Portugal (1503-1539); 2m: 1542 Amalie of Cleves [5] (1517-1586)​

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[1m.] Felipe II, King of Spain [1556-1598] (1527-1598) 1m: 1543 Maria Manuela of Portugal (1527-1545); 2m: 1546 Marguerite de Valois (b.1524)​

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[1m.] Carlos, Prince de los Asturias [1] (b.1545) m: 1561 Élisabeth de Valois (b.1545)​

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issue​

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[2m.] Juan (b.1547)​

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[2m.] Stillborn Daughter (1550)​

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[2m.] Isabel (1552-1615) m: 1566 Wilhelm I, Holy Roman Emperor [1564-1603], Lord of the Netherlands [1558-1603] (1547-1603)​

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[2m.] Margarita (1553-1586) m: 1570 Charles IX, King of France (b.1550)​

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[2m.] Francisco (1555-1556)​

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[2m.] Luis [2] (b.1559) m:​

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[2m.] Antonio [2] (b.1561)​

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[2m.] Juana (b.1564)​

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[1m.] Maria (1528-1603) m: 1543 Zygmunt II, King of Poland (1520-1572)​

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Isabella [3] (b.1546) m: 1565 Lajos III, King of Hungary (b.1543)​

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Zygmunt III Franciszek, King of Poland (b.1547) m: 1563 Catherine of Hungary (b.1547)​

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Stillborn Child (1549)​

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Anna (b.1552)​

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Jan (1554-1556)​

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Malgorzata (1556-1557)​

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Stillborn Son (1559)​

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Kazimierz (b.1561)​

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[1m.] Isabel (1529)​

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[1m.] Fernando (1530)​

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[1m.] Juana (1537-1573) 1m: 1552 João, Prince of Portugal (1537-1554); 2m: 1558 Emanuele Filiberto, Duke of Savoy [6] (1528-1580)​

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[1m.] Sebastião, King of Portugal (b.1554)​

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[2m.] Stillborn Daughter (1560)​

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[2m.] Carlo Eugenio, Duke of Savoy (b.1562)​

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[2m.] Francesco Saverio (b.1564)​

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[2m.] Beatrice (b.1565)​

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[2m.] Isabella (b.1567)​

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[1m.] Juan (1538)​

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[1m.] Fernando (1539)​

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[2m.] Karl (1544-1548)​

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[2m.] Wilhelm I, Holy Roman Emperor [1564-1603], Lord of the Netherlands [1558-1603] (1547-1603) m: 1566 Isabel of Spain (1552-1615)​

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Austrian Habsburgs​

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[2m.] Stillborn Son (1549)​

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[2m.] Amalie (b.1550) m:​

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[2m.] Anna (b.1552) m:​

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Isabella (1501-1526) m: 1515 Christian II, King of Denmark (1481-1559)​

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John II, King of England (1518-1557) m: 1545 Mary I, Queen of England [7] (1516-1560)​

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Oldenburgs of England​

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Maximilian (1519)​

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Philip (1519-1520)​

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Dorothea (1520-1580) 1m: 1535 Friedrich II, Elector Palatine of the Rhine (1482-1546); 2m: 1548 Albrecht V, Duke of Bavaria (b.1528)​

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[2m.] Dorothea (b.1550)​

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[2m.] Isabella (b.1552)​

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[2m.] Stillborn Daughter (1554)​

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[2m.] Johann V, Duke of Bavaria (b.1556)​

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[2m.] Albrecht (b.1557)​

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[2m.] Stillborn Son (1559)​

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Kristina (1521-1590) 1m: 1534 Francesco II, Duke of Milan (1495-1535); 2m: 1538 Johann, Elector of Saxony (1498-1557 [8])​

​

[2m.] Elisabeth (1539-1599)​

​

[2m.] Stillborn Twin Daughters (1541)​

​

[2m.] Johann Georg I, Elector of Saxony (b.1543)​

​

[2m.] Christian Wilhelm (b.1546)​

​

[2m.] Barbara (b.1548)​

​

[2m.] Christine (b.1551)​

​

Ferdinand, Holy Roman Emperor [1558-1564], King of Hungary & Bohemia [1526-1564] (1503-1564) m: 1521 Anna of Hungary (1503-1548)​

​

Maria (1505-1558) m: 1522 Lajos II, King of Bohemia & Hungary (1506-1526)​

​

Katharina (1507-1578) m: 1525 João III, King of Portugal (1502-1557)​

[1] born healthy, as insane as it sounds. Or perhaps "healthier" than OTL
[2] Felipe's two OTL bastards were called this
[3] Sigismund ducks the "first daughter is Jadwiga" tradition (with Bona Sforza's approval) by naming his first child after Jadwiga's daughter, Elisabeth Bonifacia.
[4] without Ferdinand and his wife's heroically sized progeny, François I takes up the 1528 offer to have his younger son (OTL duc d'Angoulême) be named as Zapolya's heir. Charles dutifully marries Anna Maria of Ansbach
[5] with only a single son and a childless brother, Karl V is forced to uphold the terms of the treaty of Venlo and marry Amalie of Cleves. Karl also remains emperor until his death due to Ferdinand's "weaker" position (no kids)
[6] proposed OTL, Juana refused. Given that Emanuele's OTL bride is married to Felipe II, stepfather to the king of Portugal is a better option than nothing (OTL Emanuele was supposed to get the governorship of the Netherlands as part of the marriage). Also, not only is Karl V the one arranging Juana's remarriage (OTL he'd abdicated by the time she was out of mourning), he's also the one recalling his sister from Portugal, leaving Juana as regent instead
[7] Hans survives his OTL death and is widely viewed in Europe as Karl V's successor (until the treaty of Venlo). Karl feels a bit bad for screwing his nephew out of a chance by Venlo, and sends Hans to England to court Mary (as opposition suitor to Philipp of Bavaria). Officially, Hans is there to discuss Anne of Cleves' return- either to the Rhineland and remarriage (to Hans, naturally, if Henry doesn't mind). Or her remarriage to Henry. Both Henry and Anne are a firm "no" on the remarriage matter. Hans plays the long game. He makes noises about how he approves of Henry's whole not getting along with the pope (or the Lutherans) thing. He makes noises about how he can relate to Henry feeling stabbed in the back by the emperor. And he assures Henry that "yes, your Majesty is the most virile, most manly king in Christendom"- although confiding afterwards that "it wasn't hard when the alternatives are a man with an oversized chin and a syphilitic with an oversized nose, one with an oversized belly and ego is no different". In short, Henry finds his Danish guest "perfectly charming". Even expressing a hope that "Prince Edward will grow into a man like him". Sadly, the latter doesn't happen. Edward dies in 1544 and, as a mark of respect, Karl V sends his nephew to personally pay his condolences.
Of course, Phil of Bavaria has left Mary high and dry with not a word...and Hans doesn't neglect his duties to- well- subtly trash talk the opposition. In short, by the end of the stay, Henry's decided that the words about Agrippa "kill him or make him family" are applicable here. So he does just that.
[8] son of Georg the Bearded of Saxony. He and his wife, Elisabeth of Hesse, switch death dates
[9] probably ASB'ish, but given the opposition of her brother-in-law, the duc de Mercoeur, to Kristina being regent OTL, I could see him forcing Maria out in a similar fashion. Likely, Karl V and Paris decide to "remove" her by marrying her off to the newly single duke of Cleves (who Karl still owes a bride per Venlo). Plus, given Maria's own "trauma" of being abandoned by her mom, I imagine she'll want to stick "as close to her kids" as possible, which rules out matches down in Italy or on the other side of Germany

@Jan Olbracht @eliamartin65 @isabella @Nuraghe @RedAquilla

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Another Scandinavian themed tree (with a Lancastrian twist) :

Henry IV, King of England [1399-1413] (1367-1413) 1m: 1380 Mary de Bohun (1369-1394); 2m: 1403 Juana of Navarre (1368-1437)

[1m.] Sons (as OTL)​

​

[1m.] Blanche (1392-1409) m: 1402 Ludwig III, Elector Palatine of the Rhine (1378-1436)​

​

Rupprecht IV, Elector Palatine of the Rhine (b.1406) m: 1425 Agnes of Burgundy (b.1407)​

​

Rupprecht, Count Palatine of the Rhine (b.1426) m: 1449 Mary of Guelders (b.1432)​

​

Philipp (b.1450)​

​

Rupprecht (b.1451)​

​

Maria (1453-1456)​

​

Katharina (b.1456)​

​

Ludwig (b.1458)​

​

Heinrich (1429)​

​

Margarethe (1431-1436)​

​

Blanka (b.1435) m: 1449 James II, King of Scots (b.1432)​

​

Margaret (b.1453)​

​

Mary (b.1455)​

​

James, Duke of Rothesay (b.1459)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1461)​

​

David, Duke of Mar (b.1463)​

​

Stillborn Child (1409)​

​

[1m.] Philippa (1394-1342) m: 1406 Erik of Pomerania, King of Denmark, Sweden & Norway (1381-1430)​

​

Stillborn Son (1415)​

​

Margarethe (b.1417) m: 1435 Friedrich II, Elector of Brandenburg (b.1413)​

​

Dorothea (b.1441)​

​

Friedrich, Erbprinz of Brandenburg (b.1442)​

​

Stillborn Son (1444)​

​

Margarethe (b.1449)​

​

Elisabeth (1452-1455)​

​

Philippine (b.1453)​

​

Johann (b.1457)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1420)​

​

Erik VIII, King of Denmark, Sweden & Norway [from 1430] (b.1423) m: 1436 Helene of Cleves (b.1423)​

​

Erik (1446-1449)​

​

Johann, Duke of Lolland (b.1447)​

​

Philippa (b.1450)​

​

Helene (b.1452)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1454)​

​

Adolph (b.1456)​

​

Henrik (b.1459)​

​

​

@isabella @eliamartin65 @Nuraghe @HortenseMancini @RedKing @Jürgen @King of Danes @Atterdag @Jan Olbracht @Zygmunt Stary

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Scotland in the Age of the Yorks:

James IV, King of Scots [1488-1523] (1473-1523) 1m: 1485 Cecily of York (1469-1503); 2m: 1505 [1] Elisabeth of the Palatinate (1483-1522)

[1m.] Margaret (1489-1544) m: 1505 [2] John, 2e Duke of Albany (b.1484)​

​

3e Duke of Albany​

​

James, 4e Duke of Albany (1532-1596) m: 1562 Christine, Queen of Scots (1537-1600)​

​

[1m.] James V, King of Scots [1523-1550] (1491-1550) 1m: 1508 Marguerite de France [3] (1494-1512); 2m: 1515 Amalie of Cleves-Ravenstein [4] (1495-1561)​

​

[1m.] Stillborn Son (1512)​

​

[2m.] James, Earl of Galloway [5] (1518-1520)​

​

[2m.] Cecily (1521-1564) m: 1538 Philipp II, Elector Palatine of the Rhine [6] (1517-1580)​

​

Sibylle (1540-1546)​

​

Ludwig (1541-1543)​

​

Rupprecht IV, Elector Palatine of the Rhine (1542-1591) m: 1560 Anne of York [10] (1541-1603)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1545)​

​

Philipp, Count Palatine of Sponheim (1547-1599) m: Princess of Cleves​

​

Elisabeth (1550-1609)​

​

Cäcilie (1542-1612)​

​

[2m.] Stillborn Son (1522)​

​

[2m.] Robert, Duke of Rothesay (1524-1546) m: 1535 Kristina of Denmark, Sweden & Norway [7] (1521-1590)​

​

Christina, Queen of Scots (1537-1600) 1m: 1550 Charles, Duke of Fife [8] (1529-1560); 2m: 1562 James, Duke of Albany [8] (1542-1596)​

​

[1m.] Margaret (1554-1589) m: ?​

​

[1m.] Stillborn Son (1556)​

​

[1m.] Christine (1559-1591) m: England​

​

[2m] James VI, King of Scots [from 1600] (b.1562) m: England​

​

[2m.] Isabella (b.1563)​

​

[2m.] Charles, Duke of Albany (b.1564)​

​

[2m.] Christian, Duke of Fife (b.1569)​

​

[2m.] Anne (b. 1573)​

​

James, Earl of Galloway [5] (1538-1539)​

​

Charles, Earl of Galloway (1540-1543)​

​

Isabella (1542-1589) m:​

​

Dorothea (1545-1600) m:​

​

[2m.] Elizabeth (1527-1583)​

​

[1m.] Mary (1494-1496)​

​

[1m.] Isabella (1497-1557) m: 1513 Johann, Elector of Saxony [9] (1468-1532)​

​

Ernst II, Elector of Saxony (1515-1569) m: 1535 Dorothea of Denmark, Sweden & Norway [7] (1520-1580)​

​

Johann Christian, Elector of Saxony (1539-1599) m: 1558 Margaret of York [10] (1543-1606)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1541)​

​

Isabella (1543-1586) m: ?​

​

Dorothea (1544-1601)​

​

Ernst Wilhelm, Duke of Coburg (1546-1588)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1548)​

​

Christine (1551-1587)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1518)​

​

Friedrich (1521-1543)​

​

Johann Jakob, Duke of Weimar (1523-1586) m: ?​

​

Elisabeth (1525-1577)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1528)​

​

[1m.] Edward (1498-1500)​

​

[1m.] Stillborn Son (1500)​

​

[1m.] Cecily (1503-1549) m: ?​

​

[2m.] Robert, Duke of Fife (1506-1541) m: 1522 ?​

​

Charles, Duke of Fife (1529-1561) m: Christine, Queen of Scots (1537-1600)​

​

[2m.] Annabella (1508-1553)​

​

[1] Norman MacDougall mentions that James sought to extend Scots' influence in Europe, especially in the Rhineland and the Low Countries. The widowed landgravine of Hesse, sister of the pro-French Elector Palatine, Ludwig V. would be a coup. This would be before Ludwig marries Emperor Maximilian's niece, so he could still be viewed as a French proxy
[2] James decides this match after his younger son dies. The main reason is how "thin" the Stewart line is looking.
[3] daughter of Charles VIII and Elizabeth of York
[4] daughter of Philipp of Cleves, Herr von Ravenstein and his TTL wife
[5] James is the first male-line grandson of a king of Scots born since the reign of King Robert II, he's granted the title of "earl of Galloway"
[6] son of Ludwig V and Sibylla of Bavaria, his mom dies in childbirth
[7] How does OTL Isabella of Austria still exist here? Simple. The dowry required to get Anne of York to be duchess of Burgundy/future empress would've likely been staggering. Edward IV, when he died, left a near empty treasury. Chances are good that it was a while before they could make up that - meaning Anne and Katherine likely got much lower matches than planned OTL.
[8] slight explanation here: when left with only male-line granddaughters, James V does not change the Succession Laws of Scotland by smashing King Robert's entail. Mostly because he knows that it will lead to nothing but civil war or an attempt by England to engage Christine to the prince of Wales. Instead, he takes a different approach. He summons the Scots parliament and has them acknowledge Christine as his heiress. He ties this acknowledgment to her marrying her to the duke of Fife's heir (i.e. the one who would inherit the throne after King James V's death anyway) to allay Scottish xenophobia. The lairds are perhaps not entirely happy about it, but James V is not the sort of man they want to piss off. Even when dead. So they grumble about it being "irregular" but most are just grateful that it's avoiding the civil war that will inevitably result if the king dies without such a proviso and his heiress is a daughter. The English might start getting ideas.
When the duke of Fife dies only leaving daughters, the Scots parliament "obliges" the crowned Christine to accept their candidate: the duke of Albany's heir. "Rather that witless fool than an English prick", in the words of a contemporary. They realize afterwards that they should've taken the English dick. Because they deliver into their queen's hands not only a husband, but also a stick she can use to hit them back into line with. Due to Fife dying with no male heirs, his lands return to the crown- much to the grumbling of his relatives who feel they didn't get quite as much out of the royal connection as they hoped. United with Albany's own lands, Christine becomes the Scottish monarch with the largest footprint since James I's reign. And that Albany is a decent soldier, rigidly loyal to his wife- he's got a whole family history of backstabbing the crown, so he knows that any misstep is going to be seized upon- and, once his son is born...here to stay, scares enough Scots lairds into open rebellion. Where Albany shows them just how "witless" and ruthless he is in defending both his wife and both the crown his son will one day wear.
[9] Johann's eldest son dies of a childhood illness, and at Emperor Maximilian's "suggestion", the negotiations for Isabella to marry the duke of Guelders are broken off and the marriage to Johann arranged instead
[10] daughters of Richard of Shrewsbury's namesake grandson, the 3e Duke of York. The 3e duke is married to King Richard III (son of Edward V)'s daughter. The duchess' nephew, the prince of Wales (and future Richard IV) is the prince of Wales they were concerned about marrying Christine. It's Richard IV's kids who marry Christine's.

@HortenseMancini @Victoria @eliamartin65 @isabella @RedKing @Nuraghe @King of Danes @The_Most_Happy @DrakeRlugia

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Scotland in the Age of the Yorks:

James IV, King of Scots [1488-1523] (1473-1523) 1m: 1485 Cecily of York (1469-1503); 2m: 1505 [1] Elisabeth of the Palatinate (1483-1522)

[1m.] Margaret (1489-1544) m: 1505 [2] John, 2e Duke of Albany (b.1484)​

​

3e Duke of Albany​

​

James, 4e Duke of Albany (1532-1596) m: 1562 Christine, Queen of Scots (1537-1600)​

​

[1m.] James V, King of Scots [1523-1550] (1491-1550) 1m: 1508 Marguerite de France [3] (1494-1512); 2m: 1515 Amalie of Cleves-Ravenstein [4] (1495-1561)​

​

[1m.] Stillborn Son (1512)​

​

[2m.] James, Earl of Galloway [5] (1518-1520)​

​

[2m.] Cecily (1521-1564) m: 1538 Philipp II, Elector Palatine of the Rhine [6] (1517-1580)​

​

Sibylle (1540-1546)​

​

Ludwig (1541-1543)​

​

Rupprecht IV, Elector Palatine of the Rhine (1542-1591) m: 1560 Anne of York [10] (1541-1603)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1545)​

​

Philipp, Count Palatine of Sponheim (1547-1599) m: Princess of Cleves​

​

Elisabeth (1550-1609)​

​

Cäcilie (1542-1612)​

​

[2m.] Stillborn Son (1522)​

​

[2m.] Robert, Duke of Rothesay (1524-1546) m: 1535 Kristina of Denmark, Sweden & Norway [7] (1521-1590)​

​

Christina, Queen of Scots (1537-1600) 1m: 1550 Charles, Duke of Fife [8] (1529-1560); 2m: 1562 James, Duke of Albany [8] (1542-1596)​

​

[1m.] Margaret (1554-1589) m: ?​

​

[1m.] Stillborn Son (1556)​

​

[1m.] Christine (1559-1591) m: England​

​

[2m] James VI, King of Scots [from 1600] (b.1562) m: England​

​

[2m.] Isabella (b.1563)​

​

[2m.] Charles, Duke of Albany (b.1564)​

​

[2m.] Christian, Duke of Fife (b.1569)​

​

[2m.] Anne (b. 1573)​

​

James, Earl of Galloway [5] (1538-1539)​

​

Charles, Earl of Galloway (1540-1543)​

​

Isabella (1542-1589) m:​

​

Dorothea (1545-1600) m:​

​

[2m.] Elizabeth (1527-1583)​

​

[1m.] Mary (1494-1496)​

​

[1m.] Isabella (1497-1557) m: 1513 Johann, Elector of Saxony [9] (1468-1532)​

​

Ernst II, Elector of Saxony (1515-1569) m: 1535 Dorothea of Denmark, Sweden & Norway [7] (1520-1580)​

​

Johann Christian, Elector of Saxony (1539-1599) m: 1558 Margaret of York [10] (1543-1606)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1541)​

​

Isabella (1543-1586) m: ?​

​

Dorothea (1544-1601)​

​

Ernst Wilhelm, Duke of Coburg (1546-1588)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1548)​

​

Christine (1551-1587)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1518)​

​

Friedrich (1521-1543)​

​

Johann Jakob, Duke of Weimar (1523-1586) m: ?​

​

Elisabeth (1525-1577)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1528)​

​

[1m.] Edward (1498-1500)​

​

[1m.] Stillborn Son (1500)​

​

[1m.] Cecily (1503-1549) m: ?​

​

[2m.] Robert, Duke of Fife (1506-1541) m: 1522 ?​

​

Charles, Duke of Fife (1529-1561) m: Christine, Queen of Scots (1537-1600)​

​

[2m.] Annabella (1508-1553)​

​

[1] Norman MacDougall mentions that James sought to extend Scots' influence in Europe, especially in the Rhineland and the Low Countries. The widowed landgravine of Hesse, sister of the pro-French Elector Palatine, Ludwig V. would be a coup. This would be before Ludwig marries Emperor Maximilian's niece, so he could still be viewed as a French proxy
[2] James decides this match after his younger son dies. The main reason is how "thin" the Stewart line is looking.
[3] daughter of Charles VIII and Elizabeth of York
[4] daughter of Philipp of Cleves, Herr von Ravenstein and his TTL wife
[5] James is the first male-line grandson of a king of Scots born since the reign of King Robert II, he's granted the title of "earl of Galloway"
[6] son of Ludwig V and Sibylla of Bavaria, his mom dies in childbirth
[7] How does OTL Isabella of Austria still exist here? Simple. The dowry required to get Anne of York to be duchess of Burgundy/future empress would've likely been staggering. Edward IV, when he died, left a near empty treasury. Chances are good that it was a while before they could make up that - meaning Anne and Katherine likely got much lower matches than planned OTL.
[8] slight explanation here: when left with only male-line granddaughters, James V does not change the Succession Laws of Scotland by smashing King Robert's entail. Mostly because he knows that it will lead to nothing but civil war or an attempt by England to engage Christine to the prince of Wales. Instead, he takes a different approach. He summons the Scots parliament and has them acknowledge Christine as his heiress. He ties this acknowledgment to her marrying her to the duke of Fife's heir (i.e. the one who would inherit the throne after King James V's death anyway) to allay Scottish xenophobia. The lairds are perhaps not entirely happy about it, but James V is not the sort of man they want to piss off. Even when dead. So they grumble about it being "irregular" but most are just grateful that it's avoiding the civil war that will inevitably result if the king dies without such a proviso and his heiress is a daughter. The English might start getting ideas.
When the duke of Fife dies only leaving daughters, the Scots parliament "obliges" the crowned Christine to accept their candidate: the duke of Albany's heir. "Rather that witless fool than an English prick", in the words of a contemporary. They realize afterwards that they should've taken the English dick. Because they deliver into their queen's hands not only a husband, but also a stick she can use to hit them back into line with. Due to Fife dying with no male heirs, his lands return to the crown- much to the grumbling of his relatives who feel they didn't get quite as much out of the royal connection as they hoped. United with Albany's own lands, Christine becomes the Scottish monarch with the largest footprint since James I's reign. And that Albany is a decent soldier, rigidly loyal to his wife- he's got a whole family history of backstabbing the crown, so he knows that any misstep is going to be seized upon- and, once his son is born...here to stay, scares enough Scots lairds into open rebellion. Where Albany shows them just how "witless" and ruthless he is in defending both his wife and both the crown his son will one day wear.
[9] Johann's eldest son dies of a childhood illness, and at Emperor Maximilian's "suggestion", the negotiations for Isabella to marry the duke of Guelders are broken off and the marriage to Johann arranged instead
[10] daughters of Richard of Shrewsbury's namesake grandson, the 3e Duke of York. The 3e duke is married to King Richard III (son of Edward V)'s daughter. The duchess' nephew, the prince of Wales (and future Richard IV) is the prince of Wales they were concerned about marrying Christine. It's Richard IV's kids who marry Christine's.

Edward V, King of England (1470-1527[1]) m: 1487 Anne, Duchess of Brittany (1477-1519)

Richard [4] III, King of England (1492-1552) m: 1510 Isabel of Portugal [6] (1496-1533)​

​

Edward VI, King of England (1510-1556) m: 1530 Catherine de France [7] (1511-1569)​

​

Edward (1532-1534)​

​

Richard IV, King of England (b.1534) m: ?​

​

Elizabeth (b.1536)​

​

Thomas, Duke of Gloucester (b.1538) m: 1552 Barbara of Hesse (b.1536)​

​

Antony, Duke of Suffolk (b.1539) m:​

​

Katherine (b.1540)​

​

Cecily (b.1542)​

Elizabeth (1512-1570) m: 1534 John, 3e Duke of York (1514-1569)​

​

John, Duke of Bedford, Earl of Essex (1513-1560) m: 1533 Anne, 7e Baroness Bourchier (1517-1571)​

​

Katherine (1536-1574)​

​

Thomas, Duke of Bedford (1538-1579)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1539)​

​

Mary (1541-1545)​

​

John, Cardinal, Archbishop of Canterbury (1544-1610)​

Mary (1514-1515)​

​

George, Duke of Kent (1515-1547) m: 1540 Katherine Grey [13] (1523-1568)​

​

Stillborn Son (1540)​

​

Katherine (1542-1586)​

​

Anne (1545-1547)​

​

Henry, Duke of Kent [14] (1547/1548-1585)​

​

Stillborn Son (1516)​

​

Elizabeth (1494-1537) m: 1509 João III, King of Portugal [6] (1493-1551)​

​

Stillborn Son (1510)​

​

Isabel (1512-1515)​

​

Affonso, Prince of Portugal (1514-1534)​

​

Duarte II, King of Portugal (1516-1579) m: 1532 Isabella of Savoy [8] (1519-1584)​

​

f​

​

Ana (1520-1586) m: 1535​

​

Francisco, Duque de Coimbra (1521-1538)​

​

Antony [5], Duke of Brittany (1495-1529) m: 1515 Margaret of Ross [9] (1500-1525)​

​

Marguerite (1517-1582) m: 1535 Jean, Duc d'Anjou [7] (1516-1577)​

​

Stillborn Son (1519)​

​

Jean VII, Duke of Brittany (1522-1564) m: 1540 ?​

​

Antoine (1524-1528)​

​

Margaret (1497-1500)​

​

Francis (1498-1499)​

​

Anne (1501-1559) m: 1516 Karl V, Holy Roman Emperor, Duke of Burgundy (1500-1558)​

​

Anne (1518-1569) m: 1538 Juan III, King of Spain [17] (1518-1571)​

​

Philipp (1520-1522)​

​

Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (1523-1575) m: 1548 Anna of Hungary (1530-1582)​

​

Margarethe (1525-1579) m:​

​

Eleonore (1526-1598)​

​

Charles III, Duke of Burgundy (1528-1580)​

​

Stillborn Son (1530)​

​

Elisabeth (1531-1587)​

​

Philipp (1534-1552)​

​

Maria (1536-1579)​

Stillborn Daughter (1504)​

​

Mary (1506-1574) m 1525 Istvan VI, King of Hungary [15] (1501-1553)​

​

Szigmond II, King of Hungary & Bohemia (1527-1582)​

​

Erszebet (1529-1568) m: 1544 Sigismund II Francis, King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania [16] (1517-1568)​

​

Anna (1530-1582) m: 1548 Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (1523-1575)​

​

Istvan, Duke of Transylvania (1532-1609)​

​

Stillborn Daughter (1535)​

​

György (1538-1548)​

​

Richard, Duke of York & Norfolk (1473-1542 [2]) 1m: 1478 Anne de Mowbray, Countess of Norfolk (1472-1494); 2m: 1496 Katherine Gordon [3] (1474-1534)

[1m.] Elizabeth (1488-1540) m: 1503 John, 3e Earl of Worcester [10] (1489-1546)​

​

Anne (1509-1547)​

​

Edward, 4e Earl of Worcester (1511-1559)​

​

Stillborn Son (1514)​

​

Eleanor (1517-1523)​

​

Lucy (1521-1588)​

​

Thomas (1523-1588)​

[1m.] Edward, Duke of York & Norfolk (1490-1550) m: 1511 Katherine Broughton [11] (1492-1518)​

​

John, 3e Duke of York & Norfolk (1514-1569) m: 1535 Elizabeth of England (1512-1570)​

​

Elizabeth (1534-1564)​

​

Richard, 4e Duke of York & Norfolk (1535-1582) m: ?​

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Stillborn Daughter (1537)​

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Stillborn Son (1539)​

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Anne (1541-1603) m: 1560 Rupprecht IV, Elector Palatine of the Rhine (1542-1591) [see tree above]​

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Margaret (1543-1606) m: 1558 Johann Christian, Elector of Saxony (1539-1599) [see tree above]​

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John, 5e Duke of York & Norfolk (1546-1614)​

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Katherine (1548-1550)​

Stillborn Child (1516)​

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Anne (1519-1571)​

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Richard (1521-1525)​

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Katherine (1523-1581)​

[1m.] Stillborn Daughter (1494)​

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[2m.] Edmund, Duke of Salisbury (1497-1557) m: 1516 Cecily, Countess of Salisbury [12] (1499-1540)​

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Dukes of Salisbury​

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[2m.] Stillborn Son (1498)​

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[2m.] Katherine (1503-1567) m: ?​

[1] based on the death year ascribed to him in Leslau's theory about his survival.
[2] his half-brother, the Viscount Lisle made it this long, and Leslau's theory posits that he made it all the way to the reign of Queen Elizabeth! Which means he would've had his paternal grandmother's genes in longevity.
[3] this is one of those scandalous marriages that leaves Edward V spitting made because he was perhaps trying to arrange a decently rich bride for his brother. Not sure how exactly it happens, but let's go with it. The only reason Edward relents is because he has two sons by this point
[4] name chosen for a plethora of Richards in the family tree: his uncle, Dickon; his half-brother, Richard Grey, he and Anne's paternal grandpas,
[5] named for Antony Wydeville, Edward's surrogate father. The name choice raises some eyebrows, but most people just shrug it off as a "the boy's named for his mother" [Anne/Anne-tony]
[6] children of Isabel of Aragon and Affonso VI, King of Portugal
[7] children of Charles IX (son of Charles VIII and Elizabeth) and Catherine of Aragon
[8] daughter of Carlo III of Savoy and Bona Sforza. While the match seems low, at the time, Duarte is a second son
[9] elder daughter of the duke of Ross (James IV's brother) and Charlotte of Naples
[10] son of Edward Tiptoft, 2e Earl of Worcester (premier landowner in Wales), favourite of Edward and Lucy Neville [Lucy's OTL husband, Browne, was stepson/stepgrandson of Thomas Vaughn)
[11] genderbent John Broughton, son of John Broughton (richest non-peer in England) and Katherine de Vere (illegitimate daughter of the 13e earl of Oxford that he named his heiress OTL). Hopefully this explains why Richard III marries his daughter to guy. In addition to France, Austria, Spain, Portugal's heirs being chronologically challenged, a match between his daughter and York gives him an excuse to keep an eye on them
[12] heiress of Edward of Middleham (and thus sole heiress to Dickon of Gloucester's estate) and Elinor Percy (Edward V re-evaluates many of his father's shadier legal dealings). The match is arranged by Edward V to avoid something like her marrying the Earl of Warwick or the Marquess of Dorset's heir (Dorset's son marries Anne St. Leger and Warwick marries Dorset's daughter, as planned here, making those two families suspiciously rich and interconnected).
[13] daughter and heiress of Henry Grey, 4e Earl of Kent (her brother, father of the 5th-7th earls) dies in infancy
[14] common legend ascribes that while his father was dying in one room, his mother was giving birth in another. However, given that the title was considered abeyant at the duke's death (pending the birth of his latest child), that and the name choice (Henry's otherwise conspicuously absent in the Yorks over the last fifty years) suggests he was born after his father's death
[15] Istvan is the son of Wlad Bene, King of Hungary and Bohemia, and his third wife, Anne de France (eldest daughter of Charles VIII and Elizabeth of York). Mary is his second wife, his first, Karl V's sister, died in childbirth with their only child in 1523, and Mary's suit is pushed by her brother-in-law, Karl V, since he has no more sisters available
[16] son of Sigismund Stary and Catherine of Mecklenburg
[17] our original POD. Maria of Aragon is born male (Fernando VI). Juan of Aragon, Prince de los Asturias, dies as OTL. Maria married Giovanna, Dowager Queen of Naples shortly before that, so Margarethe of Austria is sent onto Savoy as OTL

@HortenseMancini @Victoria @eliamartin65 @isabella @RedKing @Nuraghe @King of Danes @The_Most_Happy @DrakeRlugia @Kennedy Forever @Brita @Jan Olbracht @Fehérvári @Dragonboy

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

A variant of the Ingolstadt-survival tree I posted on "Alternate Monarchs"


Ludwig VII 'the Bearded', Duke of Bavaria-Ingolstadt [1413-1443], Comte de Mortain [1416-1447], Comte de Basse-Marche [1402-1447] (1365/1369-1447) 1m: 1402 Anne de Bourbon-Vendôme (d.1408); 2m: 1413 Catherine d'Alençon (1380-1462)

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[1m.] Ludwig VIII 'the Humpbacked', Duke of Bavaria-Ingolstadt [1443-1445] (1403-1445) m: 1441 Margarethe of Brandenburg (1410-1465)​

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Ludwig IX, Duke of Bavaria-Ingolstadt [1445/1447-1485], Comte de Basse-Marche [1447-1485], Comte de Mortain [1] (1442-1485) m: 1456 Elisabeth of Burgundy-Nevers [2] (1439-1483)​

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Ludwig (1457-1459)​

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Johann V, Duke of Bavaria-Ingolstadt, Comte de Basse-Marche et Mortain [1485-1514], Comte de Nevers [1491-1518] (1458-1518) m: 1478 Amalie of Brandenburg (1461-1512)​

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Elisabeth [3], Comtesse de Basse-Marche, Mortain et Nevers (1484-1537) 1m: 1498 Wilhelm III, Landgrave of Hesse (1471-1500); 2m: 1502 Ludwig V, Elector Palatine of the Rhine (1478-1544)​

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[2m.] Philipp II, Elector Palatine of the Rhine, Comte de Basse-Marche, Mortain et Nevers, Count of Neuburg (1505-1558) m: 1520 princess of Bavaria?​

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[2m.] Amalie (1507-1569) m: 1522 duke of Bavaria? [4]​

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Johann (1487-1488)​

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Stillborn Son (1490)​

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Margarethe (1460-1492)​

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Stillborn Son (1461)​

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Anna (1462-1505)​

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Wilhelm, Cardinal, Prince-Bishop of Liège [1485-1517], Bishop of Freising [1495-1517], Bishop of Hildesheim [1503-1517], Bishop of Regensburg [1507-1517] (1464-1517)​

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Stillborn Daughter (1466)​

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Elisabeth (1469-1471)​

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Katharina (1443-1446)​

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[1m.] Johann (1404)​

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[2m.] Johann (1414)​

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[2m.] Stillborn Daughter ()​

[1] per her inheritance from her father, Catherine d'Alençon received the viscountcy of Saint-Sylvain and Thuit, the two lordships of Saint-Loyer-des-Champs and d'Aunou-le Faucon and the chatellanie of Exmes. Charles VII confirmed her in these possessions in 1445 (siding with her over her nephew), and in 1460, she made these possessions over to the king rather than her nephew. Stands to reason that she might pick a stepgrandson
[2] per the original inheritance division of the comte de Nevers, Élisabeth was supposed to receive the lands "beyond the Meuse" (the lands in Brabant, Lothier and Namur (as well as his claims to the duchy of Burgundy)). In addition to the county of Basse-Marche and Mortain (the dowry of his grandmother, Anne de Bourbon, and bought by Ludwig VII, confirmed by Charles VII), the Ingolstadt line is also the heir to the allodial possessions of the Straubing branch (less the county of Hainaut, Holland and Zeeland), so a Flemish match makes sense.
[3] Amalie had no children OTL (although it was potentially due to her husband's disability- he may have been retarded)
[4] to tie off any competing claims about the inheritance of Ingolstadt