Trying something new based on the Wittelsbach-Luxemburg trees on page 1.
@Jan Olbracht @isabella @VVD0D95 @Zulfurium @Atterdag
@Jan Olbracht @isabella @VVD0D95 @Zulfurium @Atterdag
Does this idea sound plausible or would the election go to Ludwig V (who OTL had only the backing of Albrecht of Austria, not the pope)."After the death of Emperor Louis the Bavarian, it seemed to many as if a repeat of Louis' own election in 1314 would take place. The Wittelsbachs versus the Luxembourgs in another round of this dance. But this is an oversimplification of the events that took place. Even more than it is of the personalities.
"There was no single Wittelsbach "party" in the election. Just like the fact that your relation to the last emperor didn't mean you would automatically vote for the Wittelsbachs.
"The most obvious of these was Rupert II of the Palatinate. He was tied into the Wittelsbach Imperial network in several ways. His father was Adolf of the Palatinate, an older nephew of the late emperor, and a grandson of anti-king Adolf of Nassau. The Palatine Wittelsbachs nursed a grievance against their imperial cousins for usurping their inheritance. Rupert II's father, Adolph the Honest, had died fighting for his "fair share" in the Wittelsbach inheritance, leaving a two year old son under the regency of his pro-Habsburg uncle, Rudolph the Blind.
"The main Wittelsbach candidate in 1347 was naturally the deceased emperor's olddest son, Louis, Count of Tirol by marriage and former margrave of Brandenburg. He was supported by many of those who had benefitted from the Wittelsbach rule. These included his brother-in-law, Frederick of Meissen, and his son-in-law (who by a bizarre twist was also his wife's ex-husband), Johann Heinrich, Margrave of Brandenburg.
"A second Wittelsbach "splinter party" was headed by Rupert of the Palatinate who sponsored the candidacy of his in-law, Louis' surviving full brother, Stephen. Many dismiss Rupert's support as being simply the product of there being no Habsburg candidate available: Frederick the Handsome, Louis the Bavarian's "co-emperor" until his death1330, had left no son; nor had his late brother, Otto the Merry, whose son, once engaged to the king of England's daughter, had died in December 1344. Thus Albert the Lame ruled the entirety of the Habsburg lands. But since he supported Louis of Tirol, he was no use to Rupert's goal. However, in Rupert's sponsoring of his in-law one can see a finer hand at work. Rupert knew his own candidacy was not likely to raise objections from the Bavarian supporters, and so, he shrewdly backed his brother-in-law (Stephen and Rudolph the Blind were both married to Sicilian princesses, daughters of Frederick II of Sicily, while Rupert was married to Frederick's granddaughter).
"Finally the third of the Wittelsbach parties emerged. This was formed by Dowager Empress Margaret, Countess of Holland and Hainaut in her own right and stepmother to the aforementioned Louis and Stephen. Her oldest son was still shy of his majority, but had been married to the king of Poland, Casimir the Great's daughter since 1345. The girl was only twelve years old, so a child any time soon would be unlikely. Ergo, Margaret did the next best thing. She found a candidate who would ensure that the real power in Germany remained in her hands, and who would have no problem passing the power to her eldest son (confusingly also called Louis) when the tine came: her brother-in-law, Edward III of England.
"With all these internal divisions dividing the Wittelsbach support, it's hardly any surprise that none of them were elected emperor. Edward III's candidacy was, at first, successful, but he quickly realized how untenable the situation was, and resigned after eleven days. His war with France also made the German princes uneasy about being dragged into it if he were to be elected. Louis of Bavaria, Count of Tirol, was known to be rather friendly with Denmark and his aggression in the name of his one-time brother-in-law, Waldemar Atterdag, as well as his own policies both in Pomerania and Tirol didn't inspire confidence in those princes whose lands bordered on his. Even if he had - via Albert the Lame - papal endorsement of his candidacy. Thus, the princes elected the king of Bohemia: Charles Wenceslas." - Johann Jakob Gottfried Oberholzer, The Power and the Politics of 14th Century Germany (1992)
How does this sound, Lajos' first wife lives a bit longer than OTL, i.e. Elisabeth of Bosnia is married to Stepan Uros V of Serbia by the time Lajos is left a widower.So would you say Lajos should just not meet Elisabeth (in which case, who'd be his second wife?)?
My latest offering (same world as Lorraine-Luxemburg, Brabant-Loon). My thanks to @Zulfurium (who I've been bouncing this idea off for...quite a while):
Thoughts, comments and criticisms welcome
@Jan Olbracht @Zygmunt Stary @isabella @everyone else
@Zygmunt Stary @Jan Olbracht would Anna of Brandenburg (b.1364) perhaps be married back into the "imperial" line (a first wife of Wenzel of Luxemburg, perhaps) or would she wind up wed to someone else (stupid example being Richard II of England)?
Haven't decided yet. Could be interesting if he does. Where would Wenzel's OTL wives go? Johanna likely winds up in the Netherlands/Rhineland? Or maybe offered as a 3e wife for Jean V of Brittany when Joan de Holland dies in 1379 (TTL)? Johanna would be 17, she was apparently beautiful (my understanding of it was that she was suspected of being unfaithful, which led to Wenzel killed her confessor, St. Jan Nepomuk).Yeah, I can see her being wife of Wenceslaus IV, as that would secure support of Anna's brother, elector of Brandenburg in imperial election. Do you plan on Wenzel having children with her?
Haven't decided yet. Could be interesting if he does. Where would Wenzel's OTL wives go? Johanna likely winds up in the Netherlands/Rhineland? Or maybe offered as a 3e wife for Jean V of Brittany when Joan de Holland dies in 1379 (TTL)? Johanna would be 17, she was apparently beautiful (my understanding of it was that she was suspected of being unfaithful, which led to Wenzel killed her confessor, St. Jan Nepomuk).
And hopefully a happier end. Isn't the legend that Wenzel had her torn apart by his hunting dogs or somesuch?I think she'd most likely end up as a third wife of Jean V of Britanny.
And hopefully a happier end. Isn't the legend that Wenzel had her torn apart by his hunting dogs or somesuch?
what was the actual story, I remember something about someone put a bug in his ear she was being unfaithful, he asked her confessor (St. Jan Nepomuk) who refused to break the seal of the confessional, so he had Jan drowned, then Johanna wound up as dog kibble. But was it just an Anne Boleyn type campaign of whispers?Yeah, but that legend didn't involve Wenzel acting on his own.
what was the actual story, I remember something about someone put a bug in his ear she was being unfaithful, he asked her confessor (St. Jan Nepomuk) who refused to break the seal of the confessional, so he had Jan drowned, then Johanna wound up as dog kibble. But was it just an Anne Boleyn type campaign of whispers?
Couple of questions regarding this tree (and the Berri/Breton ones attached to it):
Looking for matches for the following people:
Catherine and Isabeau de Valois (sisters of TTL Charles VII). One of them is likely to be married in Castile, but that still leaves the other (OTL Catherine de Valois I'm considering as either wife of James I of Scotland or an alt-son of his older brother)
Maria of Navarre (sister to TTL Charles VII's wife)
Marie of Burgundy (sister of Jean sans Peur, OTL countess of Savoy, since her place has been taken by Jeanne de Valois)
Philippe the Good of Burgundy needs a second wife (Jacqueline of Holland is already spoken for, unfortunately), and his daughters need husbands
TTL Charles VI
Charles VI is as OTL, Charles VII is his grandson - only son of the First DauphinIs that different person from OTL CVI?
Charles VI is as OTL, Charles VII is his grandson - only son of the First Dauphin
yup. Born in 1392 and died in 1401. Here, he still predeceases his dad, but he's married and leaves kids.AH I understand now. The first dauphin is the one who died as a child IOTL?
yup. Born in 1392 and died in 1401. Here, he still predeceases his dad, but he's married and leaves kids.
Blanche of Lancaster, daughter of Henry IV.to whom?