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Nashville falling and Chile surrendering, my oh my is May 5th 1915 busy.

Dread it, run from it, alt!Featherston comes all the same in Confederate scenarios... /s
In all seriousness Long will obviously be very different from Hitler or Dixie Hitler but Long's gotta get the authoritarian's penchant for conspiracy theories from somewhere
Hold that thought, May 5th 1915 isn’t done - the grand finale and denouement are next

Can easily see "WI: Huey Long killed at Nashville?" being a common question on this timeline's alternatehistory.en
Absolutely! I haven’t sketched out quite everything related to the CSA yet though so don’t quite want to do that kind of update (and I spoil a lot in my foreshadowing)
Actually, I got sort of a wierd vibe from it that Kingfisher iTTL might be something like the King Fisher of men, as in "I will make you fishers of men" leading Longism to be viewed as not only the Dixie equivalent to Integralism but *somewhat* mixed with the way that the Mormons did the "United Order" early in their history (which frankly is *very* socialist, making the LDS Church's position on the conservative end of the economic spectrum today all the more bizarre). I guess, I'm *sort* of grabbing from What Madness Is This, but that's dialed up to 11, this maybe only to 3 or 4???
I haven’t gotten into this much but one idea I don’t want to play with a bit is fundamentalist Protestantism (Mormon FLdS and otherwise) being more communalist if not socialistic in outlook, at least early in the 20th century. Evangelicalism OTL becoming the backbone of the right requires some very specific circumstances after all and it would play into the High Church vs. Free Church dynamic brewing ITTL a bit too

(That said my immediate thoughts on Mormons ITTL is “American Boers” so who knows)
 
Hold that thought, May 5th 1915 isn’t done - the grand finale and denouement are next


Absolutely! I haven’t sketched out quite everything related to the CSA yet though so don’t quite want to do that kind of update (and I spoil a lot in my foreshadowing)

I haven’t gotten into this much but one idea I don’t want to play with a bit is fundamentalist Protestantism (Mormon FLdS and otherwise) being more communalist if not socialistic in outlook, at least early in the 20th century. Evangelicalism OTL becoming the backbone of the right requires some very specific circumstances after all and it would play into the High Church vs. Free Church dynamic brewing ITTL a bit too

(That said my immediate thoughts on Mormons ITTL is “American Boers” so who knows)
don't want to play with or *do* want to play with... :)
 
So.... is the gas used in Nashville that awful mixture of phosgene/tear gas that makes you either vomit and drown inside your gas mask (or involuntarily yank off your mask and get a deep breath of hell on earth) that was used at the end of our WW1?
 
don't want to play with or *do* want to play with... :)
D’oh. Do, of course
So.... is the gas used in Nashville that awful mixture of phosgene/tear gas that makes you either vomit and drown inside your gas mask (or involuntarily yank off your mask and get a deep breath of hell on earth) that was used at the end of our WW1?
Probably, yeah. I didn’t want to pin a specific blend down but that’s more or less what I had in mind
 
Hold that thought, May 5th 1915 isn’t done - the grand finale and denouement are next


Absolutely! I haven’t sketched out quite everything related to the CSA yet though so don’t quite want to do that kind of update (and I spoil a lot in my foreshadowing)

I haven’t gotten into this much but one idea I don’t want to play with a bit is fundamentalist Protestantism (Mormon FLdS and otherwise) being more communalist if not socialistic in outlook, at least early in the 20th century. Evangelicalism OTL becoming the backbone of the right requires some very specific circumstances after all and it would play into the High Church vs. Free Church dynamic brewing ITTL a bit too

(That said my immediate thoughts on Mormons ITTL is “American Boers” so who knows)
Apart from Hilton Head, didn't you say that Mexico is going to peace out on May 5th 1915?
 
Apart from Hilton Head, didn't you say that Mexico is going to peace out on May 5th 1915?
I think what was implied is that Mexico is no longer wholeheartedly committed to the war, and has begun to re-examine, why, precisely they are fighting a war that they no longer stand much to gain from, and whose continuation presages turmoil and potential catastrophe in the future - as the Revolt of the Red Battalions portended.
 
I think what was implied is that Mexico is no longer wholeheartedly committed to the war, and has begun to re-examine, why, precisely they are fighting a war that they no longer stand much to gain from, and whose continuation presages turmoil and potential catastrophe in the future - as the Revolt of the Red Battalions portended.
Exactly
Sorry my bad.
No worries i can keep track of about 60% of what I’ve written haha
 
This is my favourite timeline, bar none. KingSweden24, you're a legend!
I don't want to sound like a massive dickhead, but would it be necessary to ask people to comment less so you have more room to post in the 7 pages maximum left of the thread? Or is the timeline close enough to an epilogue that that's unnecessary?

Ironic that I'm taking up space with this question, I know...
 
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Adolf von Schicklegruber shall be the greatest arcitect in the history of all time in this ATL. Just you wait an see. /s :p

EDIT: to add to that. @KingSweden24 what is the Confederate equivalent to an Iron Cross First and Second Class?
I haven't done much if any research into Confederate war awards from OTL so I can't say much on that note, probably similar to whatever was issued OTL with whatever generically American names like "Medal of Honor" or "Distinguished Service Cross" etc you can think of
This is my favourite timeline, bar none. KingSweden24, you're a legend!
I don't want to sound like a massive dickhead, but would it be necessary to ask people to comment less so you have more room to post in the 7 pages maximum left of the thread? Or is the timeline close enough to an epilogue that that's unnecessary?

Ironic that I'm taking up space with this request, I know...
You're too kind! Lol the thought has crossed my mind but I'm just too grateful for all the comments and debates my work inspires compared to when I first launched and didn't know if many people were reading it.

One (hopefully) post, two wikiboxes, and the denouement is all that's left. I should be able to manage that in 7...

That said, the Hilton Head post is going to be a bitch to write, so I don't know when that'll come.
 
As long as Nashville had held, it would have been *theoretically* possible for a cease-fire by exhaustion (3-4 years???) line to have developed that the US *might* have accepted as a final border (with the loss of most of Kentucky, some parts of Tennessee, Virginia, IT and some of Texas *maybe* being "punishment enough" for the Confederacy. With Nashville gone, that is a slim chance, with the loss of the CSN, forget it.

Starting to wonder what the *least* damaged Significant Confederate city will be, maybe Charlotte.
 
As long as Nashville had held, it would have been *theoretically* possible for a cease-fire by exhaustion (3-4 years???) line to have developed that the US *might* have accepted as a final border (with the loss of most of Kentucky, some parts of Tennessee, Virginia, IT and some of Texas *maybe* being "punishment enough" for the Confederacy. With Nashville gone, that is a slim chance, with the loss of the CSN, forget it.

Starting to wonder what the *least* damaged Significant Confederate city will be, maybe Charlotte.
Can't we just shift all discussion to EU thread?
There's only 7 pages left.
 
Battle of Hilton Head - Part II
"...decisive naval battles do not always end a war, like Actium or Yaeyama - sometimes, as at Trafalgar, they merely make a strategic disadvantage insurmountable. With the assets in place between the two fleets at hand in the western Atlantic waters off the coast of South Carolina in the first days of May of 1915, these thoughts were plainly on everybody's mind. A defeat for the United States would erase in an instant all their gains over the previous year and threaten once again their access to Nicaragua and force a white peace or ugly settlement that would suggest the war had been worth the trouble for Dixie in the first place; conversely, if the Confederacy lost, that effectively spelled the end of the country as a naval force, and made the course of the war from then on more or less inevitable. The stakes could not have been higher.

The emotions on both sides ran high as well. Hobson's journal on the evening of May 4th suggested that he felt tremendous angst at what could be waiting at Port Royal when his fleet returned from Bermuda, as if he somehow sensed that something earth-shattering awaited him the following morning. The attempts to force the Yankee fleet away from Dixie shores had been successful, but his goal to force a decisive battle on the high seas had not, and now he needed to restock his fuel and other supplies for what he anticipated would be a second lengthy game of cat-and-mouse with his quarry.

Belknap's fleet had followed Hobson back to the coast from a northeasterly position, just within telescope range, but submarines had been deployed to fan out on either side of it in order to rapidly break off if needed, and late at night on the 4th, with the Combined Fleet's guide lights all that was visible on the black of sea beneath the stars, one of the American submarines did just so, heading away so as to not give away its position before sending a coded message via radio telegraphy. The Confederates had been more or less aware that there were submarines present in the vicinity besides their own, but had not wanted to give away the position of their own Seawolves and thus had not engaged; they also knew that there were signals being broadcast between Belknap's vessels, but until the night of the 4th there could not have been another fleet close enough for them to be broadcasting to. With Port Royal approaching, that was no longer the case, and the broadcast was heard - the Confederate fleet was back, its course appeared to be directing it straight for its supply facilities at Port Royal Roads, and the United States would never have a better chance to gain her coup de main.

Task Force C was divided into three squadrons, or "columns" as Admiral Rodgers referred to them as in his memoirs, and these squadrons were to form a semicircle to box in the Confederate fleet while Belknap blocked their avenues of escape. The Battle of Yaeyama where an entire Spanish fleet had been sunk had demonstrated the advantage of battleships being able to fire upon an approaching enemy broadside, and Murdock intended to create a cauldron at sea in which the Confederate vessels would have fire rained down upon them to the point that their operational discipline broke and they attempted to escape. The success of a similar strategy at Desventuradas influenced this thinking; as good as the Chilean fleet had been, and as capable of a commander as the late Admiral Prat had been, the Combined Fleet was much more formidable, and something similar and more overwhelming would be needed to permanently end its threat to American shipping both across the Atlantic and via the Caribbean.

The morning of May 5th, 1915 was a sunny, brisk day, with only a few clouds and an ominously calm sea. The shore was partially visible on the far western horizon to Confederate spotters, augmented by a handful of seagulls swirling ahead. Hobson would in later years recall feeling strangely at ease in the first hour after sunrise as the South Carolina coast became visible to the naked eye, and he enjoyed a dawn breakfast with his senior officers aboard the Virginia where they debated where they would attempt to force Belknap. Again, Hobson's journals reveal his line of thinking - he was jotting out a plan of resupply where vessels would enter Port Royal two at a time for a quick turnaround while the rest of the fleet anchored defensively off Hilton Head in case Belknap's squadron attempted to trap them within the harbor, and planned to spend no more than two days restocking. Within minutes, that plan was completely shot to pieces.

As he finished his breakfast, Hobson and his immediate subordinate Captain John Reynolds were summoned hurriedly to come up to the bridge - there was an urgent problem, two in fact. The first was that Belknap's fleet had apparently split in two, with half of his squadron now sailing slightly southwards to the rear of their fleet. The second was that there were ships on the horizon, west and southwest of the Confederates, the smoke of their boilers visible against the pale blue morning sky, cutting ahead of Hobson's fleet that had the sun to its back, which meant they'd seen him well before he had seen them. The trap was sprung - the Battle of Hilton Head was beginning..."

- Hell at Sea: The Naval Campaigns of the Great American War

"...for Murdock, the task now that the two fleets had spotted one another was to cut off all of the Confederate routes of escape. He assumed, correctly, that if Hobson could not sail into Port Royal Roads as intended then he was likelier to break for the closer and better-equipped naval facilities of Savannah. It was for that reason that Roosevelt and his C Squadron had been positioned the most southerly, to arrest any movement towards Savannah. Meanwhile, A and B Squadrons continued to shift into a line immediately west and northwest of the Combined Fleet, approximately twelve kilometers off the coast of Hilton Head Island and the mouth of the Roads, just barely out of coastal artillery range but sufficient to assess any Confederate routes. The T, as it were, had been successfully crossed, as Hobson and Noronha realized to their mounting horror. With Belknap's squadron split in half on their rear, the "cauldron at sea" had been nearly perfectly formed.

The question for Hobson then became where exactly to press next - did he attempt to direct his fleet to make a break for safety in Charleston or Savannah, or did he try to force his way through the line to Port Royal? The former would still sustain tremendous damage to his fleet, while simply delaying the inevitable deciding battle when he elected to leave either of those harbors. No, the battle needed to be fought now, he decided, and with that Hobson sent the signal for his fleet to form two triangular wedge-shaped squadrons to better defend one another in cross-firing and sail for relative gaps between A and B Squadrons, hoping to scramble the Yankee formations and then sweep around to pick off the various squadrons in detail once the breach occurred.

As the fleets entered firing range, Murdock sent out his final broadcast - "Leave no enemy afloat, gentlemen!" - and the battle was on. The A Squadron opened up with a violent broadside aimed straight for the middle of Hobson's nearer squadron, peppering repeatedly with all guns. The Baton Rouge exploded immediately from a direct strike to its boiler, and a magazine explosion aboard the aging Wilmington tore through much of the vessel and it went up within minutes, both ships with all hands. Hobson's frantic radio signals commanded his ships to maintain discipline and fire at whatever was in range that they could "put more than two guns on."

This meant that the C Squadron, positioned to the side of the southern squadron, was the most exposed of Task Force C. Two deck guns of its lead ship, Montana, were blown clear off, one of them slamming into the bridge and breaking Commander Roosevelt's leg while pinning him to the bulkhead, leaving the leg badly injured and barely usable for the rest of his life. [1] The pre-dreadnought Maine, meanwhile, took three torpedoes beneath its waterline and it broke away from the line to get as close to land as possible before her captain Joseph Ward elected to scuttle her, thus probably rescuing most of her crew of five hundred men from a watery grave (though many of them would be captured by horrified Confederate soldiers watching the engagement from shore), and the Duluth went up in a fiery ball from a direct magazine strike that ignited all the ammunition aboard. Seeing success in attacking this point in the line, Hobson ordered both his squadrons start to swing southwards to attack C Squadron outright, identifying this southern approach as his point of attack to break out.

This was what Murdock had anticipated, but as he made the order for his and Rodgers' squadrons to start turning around, a shell clipped the top of the bridge of the Vermont and it nearly caved in on itself; two long shards of glass passed through his back and throat, killing him nearly instantly. "Admiral down!" came the frantic message from the Vermont to the rest of the fleet, and with that Rodgers was now in command, and Murdock's trusty lieutenant elected to continue tightening the coil, bringing his B Squadron in particular around so it could flank Hobson's northernly squadron.

As all this was ongoing closer to the shore, Belknap was speeding his boats up to their maximum cruising ability, getting them pointed two-and-two towards the back of Hobson's fleet. The nearest vessels to him, were the Brazilian squadron under the command of Noronha, and III Squadron found itself in something unexpected - a dreadnought battle, with Pennsylvania and Connecticut exchanging duel of shells and torpedoes with the Rio de Janeiro at ever-closing distances. The Rio was the pride of the Brazilian fleet, their most advanced and sophisticated vessel, much like Ol' Penn was for Belknap and the Americans; the two dreadnoughts increasingly split themselves off from their support squadrons as Belknap's and Noronha's escort cruisers tore into each other to their rear. The dance of the dreadnoughts was almost its own separate battle, moving southeastwards (historians have debated if Noronha was attempting to flee and leave the Confederates to their fate, something Noronha would until his death deny) but despite his flagship taking severe damage, the Pennsylvania was bigger, faster, and better equipped, and after nearly three hours finally could break off as the Rio began to lilt on its side, with too many strikes having flooded her portside boiler and punctured her waterline. Most of the Brazilian crew was able to evacuate, and Noronha himself was pulled out of a lifeboat, humiliated, to surrender his sword to Belknap on the deck of the Pennsylvania as they steamed towards the rest of the ongoing battle..."

- The Fourth Branch: A Comprehensive History of the United States Navy

"...as morning turned to afternoon, all that could be smelled was smoke and melting metal; decks were strewn with dismembered limbs from sailors torn apart from direct strikes and pieces of their ships tearing through them. The fires were so hot men scampered about shirtless trying to put them out, the smoke so thick and black that crew could barely see two feet ahead of them, and hundreds of men on the Confederate vessels are believed to have asphyxiated rather than drowned.

The attempt to punch south to Savannah through the C Squadron of the Yankee fleet was a bad gamble by Hobson; unbeknownst to him, it had been what the American Admiral Murdock, mere moments before he had been martyred by a direct strike on his flagship's bridge, had planned for, and the other squadrons of the Yankee fleet circled around to successfully encircle Hobson from behind as the fleet he had pursue to the Bahamas came to strike from the east. Committed to his decision, Hobson had no choice but to continue to attempt to run the gauntlet and break through at the weakest link in the American chain.

This is not to say that he did not have some success; the Milwaukee went down from two direct hits from Virginia and Texas, and the scout cruisers Marblehead and Salem were blown out of the water, the latter briefly appearing airborne with flailing bodies of sailors spinning through the air from the force of the blast. The casualties taken by the American fleet were disproportionately concentrated in her C Squadron, and Hobson's dogged attempt to break through there were a reason why.

But it became quickly clear that the Americans had no intention to let him escape, and the A and B Squadrons were by early afternoon able to isolate Hobson's northern squadron, already depleted by Belknap isolating and destroying the Brazilians to their east. Here, the superior quality of the Yankee ships reigned supreme; the battlecruisers Lexington and Constellation were of better quality than the Confederate battleship Georgia and close to the dreadnought Tennessee, and these two vessels became their prime target as California with her escorts sought to pick apart the cruisers and destroyers of the Confederate fleet, successfully sinking one after the other Pensacola, Nashville and Tallahassee. Hobson thus had a fateful choice to make - did he attempt to turn around and rescue his rear squadron just as he punched through American line, or did he leave them? He elected to leave them, and at 2 o' clock the first Confederate dreadnought, Tennessee, took its fatal hit starboard midships and sank in fifteen minutes, with most of her crew of eight hundred unable to evacuate in time. Minutes later, Georgia's magazine detonated, breaking the ship in two and taking all hands with her.

Belknap's second squadron, led by the Minnesota and battlecruiser Ranger, at this point slammed into Hobson's southern squadron, with the dead Murdock's A Squadron catching her from the rear. The Beaumont and Durham were sunk within minutes of each other, and the badly-damaged Montana, with her commanding officer Franklin Roosevelt - cousin of the famed American press baron Theodore - barking orders despite being trapped against a bulkhead with his leg broken, was able to get up behind Alabama and blast her deck guns off with several well-timed broadsides before sending a shell straight through her bridge, rendering her nearly inoperable and drifting out to sea a smoking, flaming husk rapidly being abandoned by her men until she sank mercifully half an hour later. Hobson brought his Virginia around to duel with the Vermont, correctly identifying the dreadnoughts as his biggest opponent at sea, running down to the deck himself to bark commands at the gunners with his torn coat sleeve wrapped around his face as a makeshift mask, his face drenched in sweat and blood.

From that vantage point, he was able to watch Charleston start to sink from the aft, her nose pointing into the sky before snapping in half and plunging into the depths with her crew helplessly bobbing in the sea around her. A shell struck the side of the Virginia and Hobson was thrown from the deck; how he survived is a minor miracle, but when the battle was over he was pulled from the sea aboard the Omaha, dangling from a piece of debris. The Missoula erupted in a ball of flame, raining its shrapnel down on the screaming survivors flailing to survive in the flame-strewn water as oil caught fire around them, but that would be the last American vessel sunk on the day. Bobbing in the water, Hobson watched with horror as the Virginia took direct hits from submarines and destroyers along with the Vermont and started to show signs that it was done for; the dreadnought would take on water just as she breached the American lines and rolled over on her side. Despite taking nearly an hour to sink, only a hundred and twenty of her crew of nine hundred survived the wreckage and the bloody terror that awaited them in the burning ocean outside.

The Texas, the unlucky pre-dreadnought nicknamed "Ol Hoodo," was the only boat to escape the gauntlet, taking several severe hits but managing to steam aggressively out of gun range and the American fleet commander Rodgers electing instead to sink whatever was left in his cauldron rather than pursue. The "cursed ship" of the Confederate fleet was, somehow, the only vessel that day that was not sunk besides four Seawolf submarines. That meant that, in all, three irreplaceable dreadnoughts, one battleship, ten cruisers, and over a dozen Seawolves had been lost, along with one Brazilian dreadnought and three cruisers. It was one of the most devastating defeats at sea possibly in the history of naval warfare, all within spitting distance of the fleet's chief wartime port. It was perhaps not an exaggeration when American Admiral William Sims, who had helped plan the strategy that led to the Battle of Hilton Head, described it as "an Actium of the Americas" - it is hard to think of another battle that so decisively defined the course of a war to come..."

- To the Knife: The Confederacy at War 1914-15

[1] Sorry to Team "Olympic Sprinter FDR", but the parallelism/dark humor here was too good to pass up

End of Part IX: Landfall
 
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For some reason, in my mind's eye, Captain FDR still has his famous cigarette extender clamped tightly in his mouth as he's shouting orders while being pinned to the bulkhead. A frantic XO personally inserting another and lighting it, as his CO continuining to bark out orders and cheering with a grimaced "HA!" as the Alabama goes down. FDR: American Badass indeed! ;)
 
That was absolutely incredible!
Thank you! I was worried about how it’d turn out but I’m very pleased with the final product. Hopefully it was suitably epic as this TL’s climax, especially with the lengthy foreshadowing and buildup
For some reason, in my mind's eye, Captain FDR still has his famous cigarette extender clamped tightly in his mouth as he's shouting orders while being pinned to the bulkhead. A frantic XO personally inserting another and lighting it, as his CO continuining to bark out orders and cheering with a grimaced "HA!" as the Alabama goes down. FDR: American Badass indeed! ;)
Aight that’s canon now haha

The Murdock-as-Nelson aspect and a commander shouting orders as he’s trapped against the bulkhead with shells whirling around will definitely serve to influence the battle’s legend status, that and both enemy admirals being pulled soaking from the sea
 
The Battle also occurred on May 5th, providential much? I wonder if the first update of the sequel will be Mexico's response to the defeat?
 
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