Cinco de Mayo

[Curtain Jerker]

Pershing, for his part, regarded Treat as a mediocre tactician and was quick to remind others that his superior officer came from a political family (Treat's father had been a Wisconsin legislator, and his grandfather one in Maine), with considerable implications that Treat's appointment to head up ACC had to do with his deep ties to the Liberal establishment rather than talent.

Treat had proposed a different solution, which was to tack east and seize undefended Amarillo in the Texas Panhandle, which crucially was one of the few places for hundreds of miles that had a direct rail connection to New Mexico and from where the United States could credibly threaten the less populated western half of the Indian Territory and end the potential threat to the captured oil reserves in the Osage Hills near Missouri. Pershing was aghast at this suggestion - the Mexicans were only going to mobilize more men and route them up through Los Pasos, and extended trench warfare in the rugged mountains around the Rio Bravo on the New Mexico-Arizona border was preferable to leaving Albuquerque and Santa Fe exposed on a quixotic attempt to claim empty land in northern Texas. [2]

Treat's plans were, mercifully for him, a secret communique and not revealed publicly by himself or anyone else until after the war; Treat, when ridiculed, would later claim that it was a merely a suggestion and he was taking the temperature of his officers on the matter.

I'm totally shocked that there's yet another Liberal appointed to a job he's woefully unqalified because he's part of the Old Boy's Club. I was told Hughes and Co would appoint only the very best men and that Americans better vote Liberal in 1912 to prevent the inept and incompetent Tammany Tigers from running the country into the ground.

If guys like Herrick and Treat are the "wise men of Washington" (a book title ITTL that as far as I know not written ironically but painfully straight) and the very best men I'd hate to see the worst!

How many Americans need to die before all these failed Liberal pencil-pushers and failsons appointed to jobs they clearly can't do come home to roost and the Liberals are held to task electorally for bungling all of this? *Checks Notes* Oh wait, the Liberals are going to win in 1916. I'm already bummed. If Democrats were shitting the bed this thoroughly they'd lose going away. But, as always, the standard is different for Charlemagne Hughes and his party.

 

[KingSweden24]

To be honest, the Chaco War confirmed my opinion of the fact that Bolivia will always lose a war against its neighbors. Bolivia had 60 thousand more soldiers than Paraguay and still lost the war. It lost more than 2 Bolivians for every Paraguayan killed (for some reason Czechoslovakia supports the country). Paraguay had formal support from Argentina and Italy and informal support from Brazil. in the case of the War of Acre, the country had the support of the usa.

Paraguay had planes too, as I recall

I'm totally shocked that there's yet another Liberal appointed to a job he's woefully unqalified because he's part of the Old Boy's Club. I was told Hughes and Co would appoint only the very best men and that Americans better vote Liberal in 1912 to prevent the inept and incompetent Tammany Tigers from running the country into the ground.

If guys like Herrick and Treat are the "wise men of Washington" (a book title ITTL that as far as I know not written ironically but painfully straight) and the very best men I'd hate to see the worst!

How many Americans need to die before all these failed Liberal pencil-pushers and failsons appointed to jobs they clearly can't do come home to roost and the Liberals are held to task electorally for bungling all of this? *Checks Notes* Oh wait, the Liberals are going to win in 1916. I'm already bummed. If Democrats were shitting the bed this thoroughly they'd lose going away. But, as always, the standard is different for Charlemagne Hughes and his party.

Bear in mind this is what Pershing suspects of somebody he detests, rather than explicitly the case (unlike, say, Herrick).

 

[Ironshark]

Idaho National Guard being wiped out in the span of a day.

poor Idaho .


Pershings gonna meet his arch nemesis soon won't he ?

and it looks like the two theaters may be won by entirely different factions.

that'll be interesting


also Chile is really brave for a skinny flat country .although it has the Andes I guess

 

[holycookie]

Paraguay had planes too, as I recall

both had air force with Bolivia having a greater force (The Paraguayans deployed 14 Potez 25s, and the Bolivians used at least 20 CW-14 Ospreys.). But in the long run, Paraguay won in the air.

 

[KingSweden24]

poor Idaho .


Pershings gonna meet his arch nemesis soon won't he ?

and it looks like the two theaters may be won by entirely different factions.

that'll be interesting


also Chile is really brave for a skinny flat country .although it has the Andes I guess

And it’s very hard to march across the Atacama to actually reach its population centers, too

both had air force with Bolivia having a greater force (The Paraguayans deployed 14 Potez 25s, and the Bolivians used at least 20 CW-14 Ospreys.). But in the long run, Paraguay won in the air.

There’ll be a CdM version of the Chaco War, related to the events and context of the post-GAW world

 

[naraht]

In regards to the Chile/Peru/Bolivia war. From what I can tell, one issue is that the heart of Bolivia is *way* up in the mountains so both attacks into and out of Bolivia require soldiers to get use to altitude changes. In that regard a Chilean Military attack into Bolivia on the Altaplano is likely to have issues as well. You really don't have that in Europe since a *lot* of countries have Alpine areas of *approximately* the same height. (as best as I can tell, the only countries that don't would be Benelux, the Baltic Republics and Portugal. *and* the Alps are considerably lower than the Andes at that height.

Acre is Jungle, and while not as bad as trying to defend Arica on the ocean, still bad. The closest equivalent that I can come up with in Europe is to make the Swiss Alps twice as high, and have Switzerland at one point include Savoy and the middle Rhine and lose them respectively to Italy (with the role or Chile) and the HRE/Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth (in the role of Brazil) .

The relative populations affect things as well. As much as the Chileans seem to have good access to attack their enemies, I expect Chilean Army simply isn't big enough to do much heavy lifting. Historically, the only nations which tilted toward their Navies over their Armies to this degree were Islands or similar (the Dutch).

 

[Curtain Jerker]

In regards to the Chile/Peru/Bolivia war. From what I can tell, one issue is that the heart of Bolivia is *way* up in the mountains so both attacks into and out of Bolivia require soldiers to get use to altitude changes. In that regard a Chilean Military attack into Bolivia on the Altaplano is likely to have issues as well. You really don't have that in Europe since a *lot* of countries have Alpine areas of *approximately* the same height. (as best as I can tell, the only countries that don't would be Benelux, the Baltic Republics and Portugal. *and* the Alps are considerably lower than the Andes at that height.

I've been to Bogota three times in the past year for work. Bogota is "only" 8,600 feet up (compared to 11,900 feet for La Paz) and it still takes me a few days to get acclimated to that height and I'm only walking around, not trying to wage warfare or do anything more strenous than a light workout. The Andes are absolutely towering and it takes a bit of time to get acclimated to the thin air up there.

 

[Belka DNW]

Bear in mind that this map hasn't been entirely completed by 1913, though its close. But getting out to Coxim and Mato Grosso could certainly be done quickly, yes.

My guy, this wasn't completed to this day, the line going to Manaus and beyond never materilaized.

 

[holycookie]

The relative populations affect things as well. As much as the Chileans seem to have good access to attack their enemies, I expect Chilean Army simply isn't big enough to do much heavy lifting. Historically, the only nations which tilted toward their Navies over their Armies to this degree were Islands or similar (the Dutch).

i think chile will be defensive in the north using the andes as a defense

I've been to Bogota three times in the past year for work. Bogota is "only" 8,600 feet up (compared to 11,900 feet for La Paz) and it still takes me a few days to get acclimated to that height and I'm only walking around, not trying to wage warfare or do anything more strenous than a light workout. The Andes are absolutely towering and it takes a bit of time to get acclimated to the thin air up there.

you needed to eat coca leaf. It breaks the need to acclimatize. Chew a few a day and you're basically functional (almost equal to where you came from).

 

[holycookie]

My guy, this wasn't completed to this day, the line going to Manaus and beyond never materilaized.

brazil of OTL abandoned the idea of railroads in favor of paved roads for some reason.

 

[naraht]

And it’s very hard to march across the Atacama to actually reach its population centers, too

There’ll be a CdM version of the Chaco War, related to the events and context of the post-GAW world

Since Paraguay isn't in it, it will probably be Brazil (The strongest of the Losers) vs. Bolivia (arguably the weakest of the Winners, though the idea of Haiti formally joining the Axis wouldn't be too odd)

I've been to Bogota three times in the past year for work. Bogota is "only" 8,600 feet up (compared to 11,900 feet for La Paz) and it still takes me a few days to get acclimated to that height and I'm only walking around, not trying to wage warfare or do anything more strenous than a light workout. The Andes are absolutely towering and it takes a bit of time to get acclimated to the thin air up there.

And I don't think even Acclimated is quite the same as having lived up there for your entire life.

 

[naraht]

brazil of OTL abandoned the idea of railroads in favor of paved roads for some reason.

As much as the US let Railroads get overtaken by roads in the 1950s, the Brazilians iOTL never got Railroads to even that level. Multiple Gauges didn't help.

 

[naraht]

The other question is whether everyone ends up declaring war on everyone. Would the CSA end up at war with Bolivia?

 

[holycookie]

The other question is whether everyone ends up declaring war on everyone. Would the CSA end up at war with Bolivia?

I think in theory yes. It's going to be two blocks fighting.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

Bear in mind this is what Pershing suspects of somebody he detests, rather than explicitly the case (unlike, say, Herrick).

Based on what we've seen so far in the narrative Treat is A - mediocre at best - that plan he proposed is so half-assed as to be almost parody - and B - only in his position since his father is a Liberal bigshot. He also might be a coward; how else do you explain why he's safely in Colorado Springs instead of closer to the front?

 

[DanMcCollum]

Are we going to see some updates focused on the governments in the near future? When we last checked in with Hughes, he was getting on a train as he fled DC; I'm sure there's all kinds of chaos as the government sets up shop in a new city and tries to organize itself, while the Confederates are still on the move. There's also the small matter of those captured US Congressmen.

Also, though I suspect the New Mexico/Arizona front is going to be the easiest for the US to advance on - don't make it too easy for them either. We all know the Confederacy is going to lose and lose big; but hopefully they carry the momentum for a bit longer - they need to be able to see themselves as winning (even after a surprised Confederate diplomat is laughed out of Hughes' temporary office after delivering surrender demands ... a scene, mind you, that I REALLY want to see ) for a fair bit to get fully engaged and enmeshed. Nothing like some fairly good signs of victory (either winning in their attacks, or being able to repulse some Yankee offensives) to blind them to inevitable until it's too late.

 

[FesteringSpore]

Inspired: US-Luxembourgish Special Relationship

Fired: US-Ottoman Special Relationship

 

[Capibara]

Now we just need Colombia and Venezuela to enter the war because reasons to transform all of South America into a battlefield.

Given that Paraguay is surrounded by belligerants on all sides, could we see an entry to the war or perhaps violated neutrality akin to what happen to Belgium in WWI?

However (and I think I answering my own question here), as the entry of Peru and Bolivia is aimed towards Chile and Brazil war aims are Uruguay, Uruguay, Uruguay, there wouldn't be much reason for Brazil to invade Paraguay to reach Bolivia or viceversa.

 

[holycookie]

However (and I think I answering my own question here), as the entry of Peru and Bolivia is aimed towards Chile and Brazil war aims are Uruguay, Uruguay, Uruguay, there wouldn't be much reason for Brazil to invade Paraguay to reach Bolivia or viceversa.

Well, Brazil can always promise territories in Argentina and Bolivia for Paraguay. Not to mention that at the moment Paraguay is sort of a Brazilian satellite. So, Brazil can open another front against the Argentines and Bolivians if the Paraguayans want more territory.
Ending the reparations agreement would help Paraguay a lot, perhaps together with the return of Solano López's sword. The reparations imposed on paraguay were severe if I'm not mistaken 1/4 of the government's revenue went to the allies (brazil more specifically). In our TL the war debt with the Allied countries (brazil, argentina and uruguay) that was not fully paid and ended up being forgiven in 1943 by the Brazilian president Getúlio Vargas.
Therefore territory and the end of the debt would be important things that brazil could give to paraguay in exchange for its entry into the war.

 

[Capibara]

Well, Brazil can always promise territories in Argentina and Bolivia for Paraguay. Not to mention that at the moment Paraguay is sort of a Brazilian satellite. So, Brazil can open another front against the Argentines and Bolivians if the Paraguayans want more territory.
Ending the reparations agreement would help Paraguay a lot, perhaps together with the return of Solano López's sword. The reparations imposed on paraguay were severe if I'm not mistaken 1/4 of the government's revenue went to the allies (brazil more specifically). In our TL the war debt with the Allied countries (brazil, argentina and uruguay) that was not fully paid and ended up being forgiven in 1943 by the Brazilian president Getúlio Vargas.
Therefore territory and the end of the debt would be important things that brazil could give to paraguay in exchange for its entry into the war.

You're right, I hadn't thought about that. Gives Brazil a loyal and grateful ally and further weakens Argentina (only for Paraguay to be overran by Bolivians and Peruvians once they enter the war)